#soylent | Logs for 2026-01-28

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[05:20:00] -!- mode/#soylent [+v mrpg] by Imogen
[05:20:39] <mrpg> I dont have acces to our sikrit channel
[05:21:34] <mrpg> And i want to report stuff. I'll give you the 411.
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[05:40:30] -!- mode/#soylent [+v mrpg] by Imogen
[05:43:39] <mrpg> For the life of Pete I don't know where to change my theme. info, preference, I don't see it.
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[05:45:36] <chromas> Preferences -> Homepage
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[06:05:33] -!- mode/#soylent [+v mrpg] by Imogen
[06:13:34] <mrpg> How many people use th default theme, how many would like a responsive theme, should we be open-source, free software or FOSS?
[06:14:20] <chromas> New poll?
[06:14:50] <mrpg> sure, im curious.
[06:14:55] <chromas> I use my Grayscale theme. Need to make a Midnight PWNies theme though, with black-on-pink
[06:15:13] <mrpg> ans i want to change "about us" to free software but before making a pul request i'd like opinions.
[06:16:04] <mrpg> About us says "This is an open-source, community-driven project"
[06:17:09] <chromas> We don't like "open-source" anymore? Is it uncool?
[06:17:41] <mrpg> me, i prefre the free aspect, the liberties
[06:18:25] <chromas> It used to be the same. Then they redefined it. Like when they invented "kibibytes"
[06:19:02] <mrpg> oen source came later i reckon
[06:22:00] <chromas> Ah, then we should be forward thinking and call it libera sauce
[06:25:25] <chromas> good catch
[06:26:15] <chromas> (es)
[06:27:03] <mrpg> I'm playing around with the repo
[06:27:21] <chromas> I see the PRs pop up in #dev
[06:28:02] <mrpg> nice
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[06:28:34] <mrpg> "Confusing or hysterical sounding writeup" hahaha
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[06:38:41] <mrpg> bye
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[07:58:07] <janrinok> mrpg, I can only invite you when you are online, or at least it looks that way to me
[08:00:21] <janrinok> let me know what time (UTC) is good for you
[08:56:30] <Ingar> we should be FOSS
[10:14:07] <chromas> Wasn't there an L?
[10:35:27] <janrinok> Is that directed at me or Ingar?
[10:38:54] <chromas> Ingar
[10:39:02] <chromas> Sometimes it was FLOSS
[10:39:08] <chromas> Free/Libre I guess
[10:43:14] <AlwaysNever> mrpg: "a responsive theme", *without* javascript, I presume.
[11:04:44] <janrinok> mrpg - isn't your theme responsive? What sort of delays are you seeing?
[11:05:27] <chromas> Responsive is a buzzword that means it changes shape according to your screen dimensions
[11:08:55] <janrinok> So is he looking at something like Bootstrap or one of the more recent replacements?
[11:09:33] <chromas> I think just a new theme
[11:10:44] <janrinok> Such a thing is possible which is why kolie is doing a lot of work to produce a complete API so that we can change anything without having to change Rehash itself. It is Rehash that is the problem. It is too fragile and difficult to work on. The more kolie looks the more potential problems he finds.
[11:11:52] <janrinok> When we had the great 'stripping down' of Rehash things were remove without testing all the implications. A lot of the optimisation was also ripped out - but it is actually needed to make the system more efficient.
[11:12:00] <chromas> Right but also we can just make new themes.
[11:12:25] <janrinok> That will not change their 'responsiveness' will it? How?
[11:13:20] <chromas> Put in some CSS that has conditional values
[11:13:24] <janrinok> The current system relies on numerous templates (being fed with data from Rehash) which are then pulled together to create a page that matches the theme.
[11:13:43] <janrinok> The delay is in Rehash.
[11:14:17] <chromas> https://developer.mozilla.org
[11:14:18] <systemd> ^ 03@media - CSS | MDN
[11:14:35] <janrinok> That is why we have been able to 'fix' some problems simply by rebooting Rehash.
[11:15:10] <janrinok> CSS doesn't come into it until Rehash has provided the data.
[11:15:51] <chromas> I think you're stuck in a loop
[11:16:04] <janrinok> But I will be interested to see what comes of it - if you can improve one theme by conditional CSS then we can do that to them all.
[11:38:26] <janrinok> Looking back, several people have suggested that they want a theme that is more suited to smartphones and tablets, and they have set about writing one. None have ever seemed to get any further. There is a demand but, for some reason, nobody had managed it as far as I am aware.
[11:58:05] <Ingar> I assume they want a "layout" that is more suited to mobile
[12:58:12] <janrinok> Yep, I understand that.
[15:26:33] <kolie2> the templates can be modified without doing anything else.
[15:26:56] <kolie2> but uhh im not a designer so needs someone talented in html and css to really think about it.
[15:27:11] <kolie2> I've never gotten far in making good layouts.
[17:57:38] <janrinok> kolie2, yes, I know that. That will not change the "responsiveness" of the site. It will change the format on the user's device. As I wrote, others have tried to write a template that is more suitable for a smartphone or tablet but I have not seen anything as a result. I don't know what the problems are or the reasons that they were unsuccessful.
[17:58:06] <janrinok> s/template/theme/
[18:02:07] <kolie2> responsiveness is how websites adapt to different devices/screens/resizing.
[18:02:24] <kolie2> So yes, editing the templates will address the responsiveness of the site.
[18:04:10] <janrinok> To me, responsiveness is the time for the page to appear on my computer, not what format it is in. Other than the 5xx problems, I usually get a screen update within 2 seconds.
[18:04:25] <kolie2> https://en.wikipedia.org
[18:04:25] <systemd> ^ 03Responsive web design - Wikipedia
[18:04:37] <janrinok> Why should websites adapt their output - that is a browser function, isn't it?
[18:05:00] <kolie2> The rendering is controlled by html and css definitions.
[18:06:10] <kolie2> It's been the corner stone of all web design for almost two decades.
[18:06:32] <kolie2> We had tables before and no mobile.
[18:06:34] <fab23> it is called "responsive design"
[18:06:39] <janrinok> Personally, I use Bootstrap for my web pages, so I understand the concept, but my server doesn't change what it sends, the Bootstrap CSS does it, and it sends the same CSS regardless of the device that it is responding to.
[18:06:59] <kolie2> Yea, so we would have one template set with html/css thats gets sent
[18:07:08] <kolie2> and then it would adapt, based on that template's css, to different view ports.
[18:07:22] <kolie2> The current one probably has zero consideration for mobile.
[18:07:32] <janrinok> Use the same CSS for all themes, then they will all work on any device, won't they?
[18:08:02] <kolie2> The CSS has to have media queries and things that alter the layout based on the device dpi, form factor, scaling etc.
[18:08:42] <kolie2> Then it "works" on any device, where working means, adapting the sizing, layout, and elements, to best present the information to the user in the most readable, consistent manner with that devices constraints.
[18:10:20] <janrinok> Yes, but Rehash returns the same data for every theme. It is the CSS that formats it on the users device. We have had users who have tried this for almost as long as the site has existed. I don't know why they have been unsuccessful.
[18:10:37] <kolie2> It doesn't return the same data for every theme.
[18:10:46] <kolie2> Every "theme" is a collection of html/css.
[18:10:48] <kolie2> Or can be.
[18:11:24] <janrinok> If I save the HTML of a page, and then locally transfer it to my smartphone, it appears exactly as I would expect it to. I know each theme is different - that is how we create themes!
[18:12:21] <kolie2> When I look at it on my phone, it looks like the desktop version
[18:12:28] <kolie2> I see a mini article that super fucking tiny
[18:12:33] <kolie2> iu see the full left and right bars
[18:12:47] <kolie2> it looks like shit. no other news site looks like a shrunken version of the main desktop site on my phone.
[18:13:01] <kolie2> the left bar might pull out/down
[18:13:03] <janrinok> I use Bootstrap - I have already said that. So every page returns the Bootstrap CSS.
[18:14:17] <janrinok> It performs perfectly on my devices. However, why nobody has successfully written a Bootstrap CSS for our site is an unknown. It is a significant task, and it appears that nobody has been successful to date.
[18:14:45] <kolie2> Bootstrap is a CSS framework, that requires you to have a specifc html / class layout and design.
[18:15:04] <janrinok> Yes - I know. I use it.
[18:15:18] <kolie2> What would be more straightforward in this case is to use the existing html/classes and create css specific to that design.
[18:15:47] <kolie2> Augment the existing layout with responsive/adaptive css classes and styles.
[18:15:57] <janrinok> That is all in the templates. If anyone wants to submit another theme - as they did in the first few years - then I can see no problem with including it.
[18:16:03] <kolie2> Yea.
[18:16:24] <kolie2> And the actual html can be altered in the template anyways, if ncessary, to necessitate proper css usage.
[18:16:59] <kolie2> Bolting bootstrap on rehash sounds like a major pita that isn't worth the squeeze and an exercise in slamming my head in the car door.
[18:17:25] <janrinok> Nobody has created a theme/template set that works yet. I am not against anyone doing so now, in fact I would welcome it.
[18:17:49] <kolie2> I just use "desktop version" and zoom in and it works ok for me.
[18:17:55] <kolie2> But im weird like that.
[18:18:04] <janrinok> Rehash shouldn't have to change. Just the templates and the CSS
[18:18:24] <kolie2> yea it was built to support that.
[18:18:38] <kolie2> the backend stuff basically is just a framework of tools that the UI can use and put where it wants.
[18:19:09] <janrinok> But that is why you are working with an API and different display isn't it. So that we do NOT have to change Rehash.
[18:19:14] <kolie2> I think the idea is one backend for many different sites / nexus / media outlets.
[18:19:34] <kolie2> Uhh I am using the existing front end templates almost verbatim.
[18:19:50] <janrinok> Yes, but in different languages?
[18:19:54] <kolie2> I can take the pwnies template for instance and use it.
[18:20:17] <kolie2> There's a light translation layer, but its yea the same style.
[18:20:28] <janrinok> As you should be able to do. I use 2 different themes here too, depending on whether I am logged on as JR or Arthur
[19:00:30] <AlwaysNever> there is also a "trick" to optimse the site as-is, for mobile: if the web server sees a "mobile typical" User-Angent, send the site's content without the left and right pannels.
[19:00:51] <AlwaysNever> that alone would go a long way
[19:33:37] <janrinok> That's a reasonable idea, unless somebody actually wants to access on the panels, of course.
[19:33:49] <janrinok> *access one
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[22:14:25] <c0lo> =sub https://science.nasa.gov +https://arxiv.org/abs/2509.12177 +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnLZWCRyHBU
[22:14:36] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Scientists Identify 'Astronomy’s Platypus' With NASA’s Webb Telescope - NASA Science" (38p) -> https://soylentnews.org
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