#soylent | Logs for 2025-12-28
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[00:02:48] <chromas> https://www.youtube.com
[00:02:50] <systemd> ^ 03Minecraft, but it's a Wayland compositor
[00:23:56] <AlwaysNever> If Minecraft was the GUI for an operating system, imagine working hard and achieving nothing!
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[09:01:12] <ted-ious> AlwaysNever: I guess it's too late to get your money back and not give your information to microsoft but did you know that there are foss versions of minecraft that don't have those negatives?
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[10:10:40] <Ingar> Microsoft stole my Minecraft account
[10:11:05] <Ingar> I should sue them actually
[10:11:53] <Ingar> also, Minecraft is dangerously addictive, you should not let kids get anywhere near it
[10:21:57] <ted-ious> Ingar++
[10:21:57] <bender> ingar: 20
[10:22:07] <ted-ious> Yay the bot works.
[10:22:12] <ted-ious> Minecraft--
[10:22:12] <bender> minecraft: -4
[10:33:14] <janrinok> Season's greetings to Ingar, tedious, AlwaysNever, chromas, c0lo, Runaway1956, fab23, halibut and any others who have posted here recently - I haven't got around to back-reading the last month or so of comments!
[10:33:42] <Ingar> happy holidays janrinok
[10:33:53] <janrinok> :)
[10:35:17] <Ingar> have a christmas card http://ingar.intranifty.net
[10:35:56] <janrinok> I have spent the last month or so travelling several thousand kilometres and I have visited every living member of my family. I am also now a great-grandfather, I have helped transfer my brother to a care home suitable for his needs, and I have probably eaten and drank far more than I would normally do!
[10:36:22] <Ingar> janrinok: wow, impressive!
[10:36:27] <Ingar> take care of your brother
[10:36:33] <janrinok> I will pin your card somewhere suitable....
[10:39:55] <Ingar> I'll try to remeber to send you a hardcopy next year ;-)
[10:40:42] <Ingar> I"m usually not into these things, my mom used to send cards so I guess I'm jsut picking up the tradition
[10:43:38] <janrinok> I sent most of my greetings this year by texts - the cost of sending over 60 cards to various places around the world is becoming far too expensive!
[11:12:31] <Ingar> I'm spreading physical copies to the neighbours, but the rest gets a digital copy as well ;-)
[11:16:30] <Ingar> (besides, DTP is fun)
[11:16:52] <Ingar> a camera, inkscape and gimp is all you need
[11:40:02] <fab23> janrinok: thanks, to you too. You did not miss much last month, was mostly quiet here. (-:
[12:02:30] <AlwaysNever> welcome back to the digital scape, janrinok
[12:13:40] <AlwaysNever> ted-ious: I knew about the foss version of Minecraft (I questioned Google Gemini about all things Minecraft beforehand), but I plan to play online with some friends and I am not going to bother them with my foibles
[12:16:26] <AlwaysNever> Ingar: about kid's addiction to Minecraft... I was thinking of gifting a second hand Apple laptop loaded with a fully licensed copy of Minecraft to my 11 year old nephew (pending the previous consultation with his father), so it would be bad advised to do so?
[12:18:00] <ted-ious> Do you hate the kid or the father?
[12:18:35] <ted-ious> You might as well give the kid cigarettes or alcohol instead.
[12:18:41] <AlwaysNever> lol
[12:18:49] <ted-ious> It would be slightly cheaper and easier for the father to regulate.
[12:21:00] <ted-ious> If I were the father I would wipe the laptop and only allow educational games on it until the kid was old enough to leave home.
[12:21:13] <AlwaysNever> anyway, Minecraft should be better for the soul than Fortnite
[12:22:36] <AlwaysNever> perhaps an iMac anchored to the living room would be better that a laptop...
[12:22:36] <ted-ious> It is arguably worse because it has the same biological effects on the child's brain but hides behind the shield of appearing less blantantly harmful.
[12:23:32] <AlwaysNever> ted-ious: I applaud you luddite vibe
[12:23:33] <ted-ious> Yes I agree all kid devices should be plugged into big tv's in the living room and visible to the whole family.
[12:23:56] <ted-ious> I'm not a luddite I have always loved and been addicted to technology.
[12:24:36] <ted-ious> I've just read enough to understand that it is harmful to the brain and the younger the brain the more damage it does.
[12:24:48] <AlwaysNever> me too, but always with a healthy delay of at least 10 years, lol
[12:26:02] <ted-ious> If you want to spend money on your nephew buy him an electronics study kit and a soldering station or a raspberry pi and some hat's for doing fun projects.
[12:26:31] <ted-ious> Or if you want to get back at your brother buy the kid a chemistry set that will stink up the house. :)
[12:27:38] <ted-ious> Maybe find a terrarium kit for learning about plants and some unusual seeds that can be grown indoors.
[12:28:06] <AlwaysNever> those things are nice but need a guiding hand to be useful
[12:28:41] <ted-ious> I think you underestimate how good kids are at learning on their own if they really want to.
[12:31:31] <ted-ious> You could conspire with your brother by getting one of the kits and he could pretend that he doesn't like it.
[12:32:20] <AlwaysNever> nice mental trick!
[12:32:58] <ted-ious> Then the kid will think he's being rebellious by learning and tinkering and you can secretly assist behind your brother's back by being the source of additional scarce and hidden resources.
[12:33:35] <Ingar> AlwaysNever: I think the important lesson is the kid will need some supervision :-D
[12:34:08] <Ingar> I did get better at estimating quantities after doing some large minecraft projects
[12:34:11] <ted-ious> You can use the time honored strategy of telling the kid don't let your father know about this stuff he wouldn't agree that you're old enough to learn about x.
[12:34:20] <Ingar> x amount of cobble, y amount of glass, that sort of stuff :-)
[12:35:11] <ted-ious> Ingar: That's fine if the kid is 24 and studying to be an architect but at 11 the brain damage makes it completely worthless.
[12:35:19] <AlwaysNever> the hands-on science kits are nice, but need too much in-presence involvement, I don't live near to my brother to help with them
[12:35:48] <ted-ious> You might as well say that playing fortnight teaches kids to remain aware of how much ammo they have and when they need to reload.
[12:36:30] <Ingar> ted-ious: unlike fortnite, a large minecraft project (in survival mode) actually does need planning, execution logisitics and all that
[12:36:32] <ted-ious> AlwaysNever: I'll repeat. I think you underestimate how good kids are at learning on their own if they really want to.
[12:36:48] <Ingar> but yes, it's a game
[12:36:58] <Ingar> I also play with LEGO
[12:37:12] <ted-ious> Ingar: But it causes permanent harm to the dopaminergic system at a time when a child's brain needs to be growing properly.
[12:37:34] <Ingar> ted-ious: hence my initial warning
[12:38:05] <Ingar> if it were my kid I might get a telescope instead, but then I'd encourge it to go outside in the dark
[12:38:07] <AlwaysNever> I can forsee that I'll just give the kid a couple of Tintin comic books, those in which the story arc spans two volumes (like Moon landing, or the Inca's voyage...)
[12:38:12] <ted-ious> I don't understand the point of a warning for something that shouldn't even be allowed in the house in the first place.
[12:39:10] <Ingar> ted-ious: Minecraft used to be less microsofty
[12:39:34] <ted-ious> Ingar: Right but it has always been bad for a child's brain.
[12:40:06] <ted-ious> So we're back to cigarettes and alcohol.
[12:40:15] <Ingar> cheers
[12:40:22] <ted-ious> At least those would run out soon.
[12:40:50] <Ingar> would you allow your kids to play cards ?
[12:40:56] <ted-ious> A laptop with minecraft will cause harm for years and possibly permanent learning disability.
[12:41:14] <AlwaysNever> but kids in general ARE playing videogames, the world in the future will be shaped by those kids, not doing videogames as a kid today is perhaps disadvantaging the kid
[12:41:23] <Ingar> ted-ious: we got a computer when I was 12 and I learned gwbasic on it
[12:41:27] <ted-ious> Sure cards and board games and anything that doesn't involve a screen is a million times better.
[12:41:31] <Ingar> I also played simcity
[12:41:39] <Ingar> and outrun
[12:41:51] <Ingar> YMMV
[12:42:03] <ted-ious> AlwaysNever: Are you saying that lowering a kid's iq is good because you don't want him to be much smarter than other kids?
[12:42:51] <AlwaysNever> videogames allow for better reflexes, psico-mecanical body coordination, planning, and goal achieving
[12:43:07] <Ingar> vidoegames are fun
[12:43:36] <Ingar> IRC, now there's a nsty addiction
[12:44:01] <ted-ious> AlwaysNever: If you read about the real scientific research on the harms to kid's brains you will find all of those so called benefits have been debunked.
[12:44:36] <ted-ious> Kids who play with physical toys have better reflexes etc.
[12:46:57] <AlwaysNever> Ok, I totally agree that a laptop as a gaming device is bad for a kid, so I'll talk to the father if an iMac in the living room would be OK, and perhaps introduce Minecraft to the 11 year old kid - if not, Tintin comic books it will be
[12:47:47] <ted-ious> Why not do the imac without minecraft and instead put a good webcam on it so you can talk to the kid about whatever he wants to share with you?
[12:48:51] <AlwaysNever> rationing Minecraft to the kid will be a father's problem; the built-in webcam of the iMac will be enough
[12:48:57] <ted-ious> It's the video games that are the worst for cerebral development of teens and tweens not computers in general.
[12:49:29] <Ingar> I'd say it depends on the kind of games
[12:49:49] <ted-ious> Once again if you're going to ration minecraft you're just going to be limiting the amount and frequency of the poison.
[12:49:59] <c0lo> "Kids who play with physical toys have better reflexes etc." ummm... depends on the toys, I rekn
[12:50:27] <Ingar> ted-ious: the temptation to the poison is all over society, kids must learn to handle the temptation
[12:51:00] <ted-ious> Ingar: There are some steam games that teach programming and even chemical engineering but in general video games all have negative effects because of the dopamine response mechanisms.
[12:51:05] <AlwaysNever> Ingar: very well said: poison is all over the place, to manage poison is a useful skill to have
[12:51:16] <ted-ious> Ingar: That's wrong and bad parenting.
[12:51:21] <Ingar> te
[12:52:00] <ted-ious> You don't raise healthy children by feeding them just a little bit of poison at 11 so they can get used to the taste.
[12:52:15] <AlwaysNever> I'll talk with the kid's father to see what he thinks.
[12:52:44] <Ingar> ted-ious: at some point they will taste the poison and they'd better be ready for it
[12:52:56] <ted-ious> AlwaysNever: If he agrees to letting minecraft into the house he's a bad father and needs to come here so I can educate him. :)
[12:53:18] <Ingar> anyway, I need to clean the poison in the kitchen
[12:53:34] <Ingar> safety first
[12:53:40] <ted-ious> Ingar: The best way to prepare them for that is to keep it from harming their brains until they have grown up enough to master themselves.
[12:54:05] <ted-ious> At 11 video games are all negativs and no positives.
[12:54:21] <c0lo> Ingar, don't forget to clean the fingerprints too
[12:54:27] <AlwaysNever> If the kid reaches the "rebellious phase" with poison-management skills, it can be a disaster
[12:54:35] <AlwaysNever> *without
[12:55:18] <ted-ious> AlwaysNever: I'd like to read some citations that support your ideas but so far haven't found any.
[12:56:04] <ted-ious> So far everything I've found supports the idea that the only way to protect kids from the harmful effects as adults is to keep their brains away from it so they can develop properly.
[12:56:09] <AlwaysNever> when the map and the terrain disagree, terrain always wins (meaning, hard experience trumps theory)
[12:56:14] <c0lo> At 11, there's on;y 2-3 years the kid will start handling something else. I think there'll be some dopamine too.
[12:56:17] <ted-ious> Otherwise it doesn't matter what you do.
[17:12:54] <chromas> https://www.youtube.com
[17:12:56] <systemd> ^ 03Robin Williams Blame Canada HQ High Quality Oscars 2000 HD
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[23:14:02] <chromas> seasoned meatings
[23:14:33] <chromas> minecraft is still better than roblox at least
[23:14:45] <chromas> far fewer predators