#soylent | Logs for 2025-01-09
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[00:48:10] -!- plethumbra [plethumbra!~plethumbr@195.238.ytj.uz] has joined #soylent
[00:48:27] <plethumbra> I believe someon is impersonating me on SN.
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[04:16:55] <chromas2> I actually saw my router sperg out earlier, with a monitor plugged in. Too much scrolling to read anything
[04:17:04] <kolie> o/
[04:18:03] <chromas2> I could ssh in and watch the system log but I need to figure out what file to watch because freebsd's dmesg doesn't tail or do anything useful
[04:18:21] <chromas2> \o
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[05:48:41] <flaggedsoylentil> kolie's proposal for flagging is going forward, in spite of janrinok's incoherent objections? But, we still cannot see what is being deleted, or why, so hardly adresses the problem.
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[08:35:56] -!- mode/#soylent [+v chromas] by Imogen
[09:01:40] <janrinok> "flaggedsoylentil". It is part of a staged introduction of the facility. It is essentially an administrative tool. Therefore it is currently only accessible to a small number of people. The UI is still being written. When we are sure that the tool meets both the community's and the administration's needs then it will be opened to more people.
[09:03:54] <janrinok> I did not object to the function but to the implementation. Until administrators can use it they cannot respond to community requests for more information. There are no significant differences between our views. You are seeing problems where they simply do not exist.
[09:26:47] <janrinok> In fact, I requested that kolie activate the function on Production so that testing can take place and a UI can be developed.
[09:27:39] <janrinok> As usual, you have your 'facts' back to front.
[09:35:17] -!- drussell [drussell!~drussell@2604:3d08:ghnm:vozx::zxir] has joined #soylent
[09:38:33] <drussell> chromas: tail -F /var/log/messages
[09:45:51] <fab23> chromas: FreeBSD dmesg, from the boot see /var/run/dmesg.boot and else /var/log/dmesg.yesterday and /var/log/dmesg.today
[09:46:33] <chromas> Thanks guys
[09:46:46] <chromas> It rebooted just a bit ago too though it's not hooked to anything anymore
[09:54:49] <drussell> If you have the system configured to save kernel coredumps, you can also extract the message buffer from the .core file with 'dmesg -M corefile'
[09:55:03] <drussell> man dumpon
[09:55:37] <drussell> man crashinfo
[09:55:40] <drussell> man dmesg
[09:57:30] <chromas> the alert panel thinger in opnsense says it's a fatal trap for pagefault in kernel space
[09:57:42] <chromas> I wanted to see if there's anything else though
[09:58:09] <chromas> I updated all the stuff the internet suggests
[09:58:31] * chromas blames ari
[10:02:48] <drussell> I think, IIRC, if you set sysctl kern.panic_reboot_wait_time=-1 the kernel will not automatically reboot on a panic which should allow you to see the error on the attached monitor also
[10:05:11] <drussell> You can also compile a kernel with 'options DDB' in it and it will drop to a kernel gdb instance instead of rebooting on crash...
[10:05:54] <drussell> I used to run most of my machines that way by default unless I reallly needed it to reboot on a crash on an important server or someting
[10:06:41] <drussell> otherwise, if you're saving a core on kernel panics, you can step backwards through it with gdb and see what it was doing...
[10:06:50] <drussell> It still sound like flakey hardware to me, though...
[10:07:17] <drussell> What FreeBSD version is this thing running? What is the output from uname -a ??
[10:11:04] <drussell> If you are going to try to run ddb to debug the kernel or enable options DDB you probably also want to compile the kernel with the debugging symbols included, so you want makeoptions DEBUG=-g
[10:11:42] <drussell> then boot using the kernel.debug version
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[10:14:57] -!- mode/#soylent [+v chromas2] by Imogen
[10:16:25] <chromas2> hm
[10:17:45] <chromas2> so now that I'm on the other router, it didn't reboot yet I lost my internets for a bit
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[10:23:08] -!- mode/#soylent [+o chromas2] by Imogen
[10:23:10] -!- flaggedsoylentil was kicked from #Soylent by chromas2!~chromas@Soylent/Staph/Infector/chromas [flaggedsoylentil]
[10:23:13] -!- mode/#soylent [+r #soylent] by chromas2
[10:23:47] <chromas2> FreeBSD 13.1 releasep6 stable/24.7
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[10:24:34] <flaggedsoylentil> Help! I have been flagged for review!
[10:25:47] <flaggedsoylentil> janrinok has been touched in a sore place, re: soft deletes?
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[10:27:33] <flaggedsoylentil> Who if flagging my vhost, which I did not do, since I am totally not aristarchus, whoever that may be.
[10:27:44] <flaggedsoylentil> Who is, that is.
[10:28:51] <flaggedsoylentil> Flagging people, deleting them, calling them names, and kicking them off IRC is no way to increase membership of website.
[10:28:51] <janrinok> You asked us to introduce this function. You argued for it. And now you have realised that it works against you. Shame.
[10:29:14] <flaggedsoylentil> Did not. Who are you talking to?
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[10:30:37] <janrinok> don't forget, we have every comment that you have made on this site
[10:33:39] <chromas2> looks like panic_reboot_wait_time was 15
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[10:57:03] <drussell> Yeah, the default is to pause for 15 seconds on a panic and then auto-reboot.
[10:57:48] <drussell> When you're trying to debug issues, whether they be caused by hardware or software, you want to modify that default behavior. :)
[10:57:48] <chromas2> I didn't notice a pause but it probably got tired of waiting for all the scrolling to finish
[10:58:13] <chromas2> looked like it was pooping out firewall rules to the screen
[10:58:30] <drussell> Are you using ipfw or pf or what?
[10:58:58] <chromas2> I dunno. Whatever pf/opnsense uses
[11:00:47] <chromas2> Now I'm waiting for it to do it again before I take it apart
[11:01:14] <chromas2> and all my usb drives walked off I guess
[11:01:18] <drussell> Ah, pf then... I have no real experience with pf or ipfilter, I still use ipfw because that's the one I'm familiar with for decades.. LOL
[11:03:06] <drussell> This machine did used to be stable though, right? It worked for some time then started to get flakey and crash all the time?
[11:03:39] <chromas2> no. I thought it did, then realized I hadn't used it until I switched ISPs
[11:04:05] <drussell> Ah...
[11:04:06] <chromas2> if I can find a thumb drive then I'll memtest it
[11:04:40] <chromas2> Next I'll probably find out that I'm using some Chinesium ram instead of whatever I thought I put in
[11:05:10] <drussell> I DO remember that there were issues with 13.1-RELEASE panicking when running in some VM environments, but I don't think it had issues on bare hardware
[11:05:56] <drussell> Yeah, seriously check the hardware before starting to shotgun-approach replace the software...
[11:06:01] <chromas2> at the internet's suggestion, I updated the kernel and installed the intel microcode package and those didn't help
[11:06:55] <chromas2> the BSDs could learn from the Linuxes and add in 50,000 ls* and *ctl commands
[11:07:01] <chromas2> not even an lspci
[11:07:05] <janrinok> I'm no expert in these things, but is it worth eventually rebuilding it (after having checked all your hardware) and seeing at what point the problem reoccurs?
[11:07:18] <drussell> 13.1-RELEASE is quite old, but if you want to update you either need to pull the disk and do it on another machine, or wait until you KNOW that machine's hardware is stable or else you're likely to corrupt things when you try to upgrade or re-install or whatever.
[11:07:42] <chromas2> Mostly I just wanted to see what other nonsense happens when it dies
[11:08:32] <drussell> You mean like pciconf ??
[11:09:03] <drussell> The functionality of most Linux utilities are present in BSD, they're just often named something different and use different syntax, etc.
[11:09:26] <drussell> man pciconf
[11:09:46] <chromas2> yes and that's wrong of the m
[11:10:24] <drussell> FreeBSD is normally ROCK SOLID STABLE.
[11:11:03] <drussell> I just checked, none of my machines that are running old versions are on 13.1
[11:11:19] <drussell> I have one on 12.1, but that doesn't help me knof if you've hit a software issue... LOL
[11:11:30] <drussell> know if
[11:12:15] <drussell> I normally build and install from source for upgrades, so I rarely run a -RELEASE version for more than a few hours... LOL
[11:12:38] <chromas2> it doesn't want to crash now so disassembly time
[11:12:58] <drussell> LOL... of course...
[11:13:13] <drussell> Like I said, this REALLY sounds like a hardware issue...
[11:13:33] <chromas2> Probably Memory brand memory
[11:13:36] <fab23> hm, current OPNsense 24.7.11_2 is FreeBSD 14.1-RELEASE-p6
[11:13:39] <chromas2> or Smamsong or something
[11:13:54] <fab23> have also a few of them running, rock solid
[11:14:01] <chromas2> weird; I just updated it a few days ago
[11:14:05] <drussell> Flakey memory would be my first suspect culprit
[11:14:09] <chromas2> or a couple weeks ago
[11:14:46] <drussell> 13.4 is the latest in the 13- branch
[11:14:52] <fab23> yes
[11:14:54] <drussell> Your system is very old software version
[11:15:13] <chromas2> the older router has the issue that its SSD using whatever came before m.2 isn't well like by BSD, so it waits several minutes retrying something or another before booting
[11:15:34] <drussell> That's wierd... Never heard of that
[11:15:39] <fab23> drussell: do I understand right, it is a OPNsense? Maybe choose a different mirror.
[11:16:10] <drussell> I have no idea what he's running... I was assuming it was a stock FreeBSD install...
[11:16:17] <fab23> s/drussell/chromas2/ :)
[11:16:18] <chromas2> mismatched ram. that's a good sign
[11:16:37] <drussell> If he's running some custom router distribution or something, all bets are off... LOL :)
[11:17:16] <drussell> Definitely a potential culprit... Bad RAM is a leading cause of fatal trap 12 panics... LOL
[11:17:17] <chromas2> nah it's just opnsense with the default non-paid packages
[11:17:50] <chromas2> but dangit I need dual channel memories
[11:17:54] <fab23> I also run just the "free" version
[11:18:44] <chromas2> this also uses msata
[11:18:45] <drussell> I have 0 experience with OPNsense so I cannot help you one iota beyond the underlying FreeBSD system itself. No clue what nonsense the router distribution guys might have added / messed with.
[11:19:25] <chromas2> the nonsense is the whole point :D
[11:19:40] <chromas2> Why learn to use the system when I can point'n'drool my way through some web pages
[11:20:34] <chromas2> no matching ddr4 sodim pairs laying around
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[11:22:05] <chromas2> I forgot I'd added more ram to it. I guess the days of mismatching your ram and just having it run at the slowest speed is gone
[11:23:07] <drussell> LOL... OPNsense does look interesting as a turnkey solution, perhaps I will have to play with it sometime, but having run FreeBSD since version 1.1 I just install a base system and customize it to whatever I'm doing for any particular case... :)
[11:23:24] <drussell> Mismatched ram will often work fine... Until it doesn't... :)
[11:25:19] <fab23> chromas2: check the manual, sometimes you may have to use the proper slots.
[11:25:45] <chromas2> there're only two
[11:26:18] <chromas2> but I should check the firmware. I've noticed these chinese PCs often have 60 quadrillion options in the efi settings
[11:26:40] <fab23> drussell: it is nice so e.g. also IT support can create users for VPN. And overall it is a nice solution for a small office with internal DNS, DCHP, Dual-WAN and possible HA. :)
[11:27:13] <drussell> Oh, you mean the SATA version of M.2 It is still M2, just SATA instead of NVMe (PCI-E bus)
[11:27:19] <fab23> chromas2: yes, boot from SSD may have to do something with e.g. legacy BIOS or EFI, which may also depend on what it was during install of the OS.
[11:27:31] <chromas2> it's a different connector
[11:27:43] <chromas2> I think it's what laptops used before m.2 came out
[11:27:49] <drussell> It is keyed differently, but some machines could take either....
[11:27:56] <chromas2> different from sata over m.2
[11:28:04] <drussell> Some early M.2 drives could speak both also, actually...
[11:28:05] <chromas2> it's wider
[11:28:35] <fab23> chromas2: I have some physical boxes at work, olders had even HDD, but newer I think have M.2.
[11:30:25] <drussell> Maybe it was the same as the regular mini-PCIe slots bthat the early PCIe drives used...
[11:31:13] <chromas2> might be. alls I knows is the slot is bigger and all the drives I've seen are more expensive per jigabyte than m.2 ones and smaller capacities
[11:31:51] <chromas2> now it's up and running with just the name-brand ram. I'll let it sit around for awhile
[11:31:59] <chromas2> thanks for making me check the ram
[11:32:13] <chromas2> drussell++
[11:32:13] <chromas2> fab23++
[11:32:13] <bender> drussell: 10
[11:32:13] <bender> fab23: 5
[11:32:19] <chromas2> increments all around
[11:33:27] <drussell> Hmmm, no, Wikipedia says both the M-keyed and B-keyed variants of M.2 that are often used for SSDs DO have both SATA and PCIe available if it is implemented on that particular MB
[11:33:29] <fab23> \o/
[11:33:29] <chromas2> Still a bit worried though, that after switching routers, I got an "ethernet detached event" so maybe the ont is restarting too
[11:33:45] <chromas2> I must have lots of space particles beaming in
[11:34:35] <chromas2> the trick is to login on irpg
[11:34:46] <fab23> standards are something beautifully, so many to choose from :)
[11:35:03] <drussell> "The M.2 standard allows module widths of 12, 16, 22 and 30 mm, and lengths of 16, 26, 30, 38, 42, 60, 80 and 110 mm."
[11:37:06] <chromas2> """The physical dimensions of the mSATA connector are identical to those of the PCI Express Mini Card interface, but the interfaces are electrically incompatible; the data signals [...] need a connection to the SATA host controller instead of the PCI Express host controller.
[11:37:06] <chromas2> The M.2 specification has superseded both mSATA and mini-PCIe."""
[11:37:18] <drussell> Connectors keyed with the B-key style have SATA, PCIe ×2, USB 2.0 and 3.0, audio, UIM, HSIC, SSIC, I2C and SMBus available (if each is implemented)
[11:37:35] <drussell> M socket has only SATA, PCIe ×4, and SMBus
[11:37:55] <drussell> The B+M type socket I was talking about only has 2 PCIe lanes, so SATA, PCIe ×2, and SMBus
[11:38:06] <chromas2> hehe, B+M
[11:38:23] <drussell> but it will WORK with either, just not at full 4-lane speed if a drive supports it...
[11:39:15] <drussell> Yes, M.2 also has socket types A and E, (and combo A+E type) covering the traditional mini-PCIe uses like Wi-Fi cards
[11:40:18] <drussell> Those are a couple of single PCIe lanes, USB, etc. for "normal" expansion cards, rather than optimized for storage devices
[11:43:04] <drussell> SATA and PCIe CAN be implemented on the same socket at the same timem though they are not always both actually wired up and present...
[11:43:38] <drussell> Well, now they RARELY are, most MBs don't support SATA on M.2 at all anymore, but at one time they most certainly did...
[11:47:34] <chromas2> I remember having to look for that on the ssds
[11:49:10] <drussell> Yes... Everything now is NVMe, obviously, since it is way, way faster, but it totally was a thing previously... :)
[11:53:10] <drussell> See, for example, here is an external USB -> M.2 dual-protocol-enabled enclosure with a M-keyed slot that will accept either a B+M keyed SATA disk or an M or B+M keyed NVMe disk:
[11:53:18] <drussell> https://maiwo360.com
[11:53:43] <drussell> Some motherboards used to support either type in their on-board sockets also... It's just rare now.
[11:54:14] <chromas2> 'cause nobody wants crappy sata
[11:54:59] <drussell> This laptop has only SATA 2.5" disk since it doesn't even HAVE an M.2 slot or support for booting from PCIe at all... :)
[11:55:09] <drussell> It works fine. It's fast enough... LOL
[11:55:23] <drussell> It has a 4TB Crucial MX in it
[11:56:07] <drussell> The ASUS site says it only supports 8GB of ram, but I have 16GB in it also... LOL Dual channel, 8GB modules works fine even though they don't say it will... Looked up the chipset :)
[11:56:25] <drussell> It IS like 13 years old or so now...
[11:56:43] <chromas2> I don't recall ever coming across an upper limit to ram size other than what's for sale
[11:56:55] <chromas2> they'll say a maximum but I've always been able to go over
[11:57:12] <drussell> Only up until whatever the memory controller can physically address... :)
[11:57:21] <drussell> This chipset tops out at 16GB
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[12:04:55] <drussell> It is an old ASUS K53SV, Intel HM65 Express Chipset with an i7 2670QM and NVidia GeForce GT 540M w/ 1GB DDR3 on it in addition to the internal Inel HD 3000 graphics
[12:05:16] <drussell> The HM65 can only physically address up to 16GB
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[12:10:53] <drussell> Stupid IPv6 random disconnects... I guess I'll just force IPv4 again for now... 🙄
[12:13:57] <drussell> This laptop was my dad's and he died almost 12 years ago, so it's not a very "new" machine... :)
[12:15:42] <drussell> It was a reasonably swanky machine at the time, though... When I got it for him, he'd said he wanted something actually decent... ;)
[12:18:02] <drussell> Really the only thing this model didn't have was the higher-resolution screen... It's only got the 1366x768 panel.
[12:29:53] <chromas2> That was a sad era for screens
[12:31:28] <chromas2> and TVs. if a tv only supported 720, the reported resolution would be 1366x768 and no matter what it was set to it would look like a ballsac
[12:37:37] <fab23> I still have an Commodore 1081 Amiga display at home: https://bigbookofamigahardware.com
[12:47:18] <drussell> Even my old ASUS Z70V and M6 laptops from 20+ years ago have the 1680x1050 screen option in them... LOL Those are Pentium-M era, Intel "Centrino"
[12:48:22] <drussell> ATI graphics chip with 64MB I think it was...
[12:48:58] <drussell> Really nice laptops, though... I have at lest three of those.
[12:49:03] <drussell> least
[12:50:19] <drussell> I still use them sometimes when I'm doing live sound / DJ stuff... They run Windows 2000, I've got my old Virtual DJ setup on it, I like the old version better for normal use, since I'm so used to it from when I was doing it professionally all the time for a decade.. haha
[12:54:21] <drussell> This K53 usually sits in the living room, connected via HDMI to a 1920x1080 TV
[12:55:11] <drussell> It's kinda my generalpurpose machine... I have a bunch of VMs on it, so I can run Windows 7, FreeBSD, old Win2K images, etc. all side-by-side
[12:55:47] <drussell> That's why I put the big disk and full RAM in it...
[12:56:39] <drussell> Plus, I use it for watching youtube or downloaded videos or shows or whatever grey market streams for sporting events or whatnot
[12:57:23] <drussell> I cut the cord from satellite / cable a couple decades ago now
[12:59:05] <drussell> Last time I had "appintment-style" TV was many many years ago when my ex still worked for Starchoice before they got bought by Shaw.. It was $20/month for the employee package which had ALL channnels including porn and movies, just not the NFL sunday ticket and NHL centre ice packages, you would have to pay extra for those
[13:00:07] <drussell> You were allowed to have up to 6 boxes on your account, but Nicole had like 9 of them on hers... There wer boxes at her place, her mom's house, my place, her brother's or something... LOL
[13:01:00] <drussell> Once Shaw bought them, they nerfed that employee deal... I havent had any sort of cable service since
[13:01:19] <drussell> Screw that.... Not for the prices they want for their crap lineup
[13:04:01] <chromas2> 🏴☠️
[13:24:38] <Ingar> I so would like to drop my cable TV subscription
[13:24:45] <Ingar> but unfortunately, other people in my household do watch TV
[13:25:32] <Ingar> personally, I prefer solutions in international waters because better quality and more user firendly
[13:26:13] <Ingar> and a sizeable colelction of cheap DVDs
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[19:31:03] pennant is now known as Ramaway1966
[19:33:03] <Ramaway1966> The obsession is reaching a peak, methinks.
[19:33:27] <Ramaway1966> This channel is being flagged.
[19:35:07] <fab23> ⛳️
[19:35:33] Ramaway1966 is now known as ragnirok
[19:38:00] <Ingar> 🏌️
[19:38:19] <ragnirok> Greens-land!!
[19:41:48] <ragnirok> Trumpfoundland!
[19:44:25] <Ingar> all golf courses are now tesla cybertruck targets
[19:45:16] <Ingar> oops, that might have flagged the channel
[19:50:51] <fab23> Everything has to be flagged, for equality!
[19:53:13] <ragnirok> NSA flags things differently
[19:53:34] ragnirok is now known as cromass
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[20:07:19] <janrinok> .op
[20:07:19] -!- mode/#soylent [+o janrinok] by Imogen
[20:07:30] <janrinok> kick cromass
[20:07:36] <janrinok> .kick cromass
[20:07:57] <janrinok> .deop
[20:07:57] -!- mode/#soylent [-o janrinok] by Imogen
[20:10:40] <janrinok> My day is over - cu guys tomorrow
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