#soylent | Logs for 2024-07-12
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[08:28:17] <Ingar> so, we already crossed the avarage rainfall level for july
[08:28:32] <Ingar> 10th month in a row with higher-than-average rainfall
[08:29:45] <Ingar> please pump some more greenhouse gasses and get it over with. Once half the country is flooded by the sea this won't be a problem any more
[08:35:09] <chromas> Especially California
[08:35:44] <chromas> hm but if it's raining then that means clouds are reflecting sunlight away and cooling the planet. Yay, carbon!
[08:45:19] <ted-ious> Are we talking about that conspiracy theory of geoengineering?
[08:46:33] <ted-ious> It's funny how geoengineering is a conspiracy theory if you don't want it or even just have questions about it.
[08:47:14] <ted-ious> But if you're a scientist and attend geoengineering conferences or work for a company with nasa contracts I guess then it's ok?
[08:48:38] <chromas> clouds are bright, so if there's a lot of them then they'll bump the albedo of the area. if it's always raining, then there's always clouds
[08:55:26] <Ingar> no need for conspiracy
[08:55:33] <Ingar> I live near the airport
[08:55:59] <Ingar> i've seen multipel times how plane exhausts create cloud cover
[08:56:04] <Ingar> *multiple
[08:57:50] <Ingar> or come smell the nice burnt kerosine air
[08:59:19] <Ingar> there have been instances were it was so bad I almost fainted
[09:01:54] <ted-ious> But airplane exhaust comes from airplane engines.
[09:02:31] <ted-ious> It's hard to say that 2 engines are creating 4 trails that turn into clouds.
[09:03:11] <Ingar> a jet engine has a hole in the middle
[09:03:38] <ted-ious> I guess you've never seen the photos or video of what I'm talking about.
[09:03:39] <Ingar> well, rather, it has an obstruction in the midlle, the flow has a hole in the middle
[09:04:47] <Ingar> http://ingar.intranifty.net
[09:05:02] <Ingar> a bit fuzzy, but you notice how the exahsut plume from the single engine is split in two
[09:06:41] <ted-ious> I'm talking about 4 streams spaced out on each side of the engines.
[09:07:19] <Ingar> never seen that
[09:07:27] <ted-ious> In other videos you can see the streams turn off instantly and turn back on a few seconds later.
[09:07:59] <ted-ious> So you'd have to believe the pilot just decided to turn off all the engines at once.
[09:08:17] <Ingar> or dumping the fuel before landing
[09:08:32] <Ingar> (that's a thing)
[09:08:40] <ted-ious> Maybe if the plane had a flame out and they were trying to restart them to keep from crashing but this was while cruising along with no trouble.
[09:09:42] <Ingar> in essence, I stopped caring about all the conspiracy theories. there's no hard evidence and it isn't worth my time
[09:09:50] <Ingar> and I don't need it for plane exahsuts to be bad
[09:10:54] <Ingar> but, I cordially invite you to do some plane spotting with me
[09:11:22] <Ingar> I'll bring a telescope
[09:17:00] <ted-ious> What would you consider hard evidence?
[09:21:00] <Ingar> a peer-reviewed paper ?
[09:22:41] <Ingar> ted-ious: it is a valid and interesting question
[09:22:45] <ted-ious> So if I went to a geoengineering conference with 100 scientists and government officials and brought back the syllabus and some of the papers they published would that count?
[09:23:03] <Ingar> most likely
[09:23:21] <Ingar> unless it was sponsored by Shell
[09:23:30] <ted-ious> LOL
[09:23:56] <ted-ious> If the sponsor was evil enough the evidence flips from conclusive to inconclusive? :)
[09:24:28] <Ingar> do you believe Microsoft is a friend of Open Soruce like they claim?
[09:24:36] <Ingar> *Source
[09:24:42] <Ingar> (wtf is with my typing this week)
[09:25:30] <ted-ious> I presume you understand that a corporation as evil as shell could hire people who are smart enough to search for other places to invest so they could make money from the same systems that are supposed to regulate them?
[09:26:36] <ted-ious> I'm not talking about a so called peer reviewed so called paper that says the illuminati are spraying stuff in the air to make clouds.
[09:27:18] <ted-ious> I'm talking about papers and patents and conferences where the people who are doing it discuss their methods and budgets and such.
[09:27:39] <Ingar> do you have a link?
[09:28:13] <ted-ious> You can't be a rational adult and say that something is not real and a conspiracy theory when the thing you're denying has international conferences and patents and government contracts.
[09:28:25] <ted-ious> https://royalsocietypublishing.org
[09:28:26] <systemd> ^ 03Just a moment...
[09:28:30] <ted-ious> https://wires.onlinelibrary.wiley.com
[09:28:30] <systemd> ^ 03Just a moment...
[09:28:45] <ted-ious> https://royalsociety.org
[09:29:08] <ted-ious> https://www.sciencedirect.com
[09:29:09] <systemd> ^ 03Page restricted | ScienceDirect ( https://www.sciencedirect.com )
[09:29:42] <ted-ious> How interesting that all of these sites are behind cloudflare and don't like anonymous people accessing them.
[09:29:45] <Ingar> well, the first one is titled "a review of governance proposals" note the word proposal in there
[09:30:11] <ted-ious> You're really grasping at straws now. :)
[09:30:55] <Ingar> the second article begins with
[09:30:59] <Ingar> "Solar geoengineering describes a set of hypothetical technologies to reduce incoming sunlight on earth, that is, to “dim the sun” "
[09:31:31] <Ingar> ted-ious:I'm just reading what it says, nothing less, nothing more
[09:32:10] <ted-ious> https://www.congress.gov
[09:32:10] <systemd> ^ 03Just a moment...
[09:32:57] <Ingar> also, a research bill, not implementation
[09:34:11] <ted-ious> LOL
[09:34:52] <ted-ious> Credulous. :)
[09:35:52] <ted-ious> There are lots of links in this funding document if you want to find a few billion more facts to dismiss because the word implementation has been conveniently left out. :)
[09:35:57] <ted-ious> https://geoengineering.environment.harvard.edu
[09:37:13] <ted-ious> https://iopscience.iop.org
[09:37:15] <systemd> ^ 03The cost of stratospheric aerosol injection through 2100 - IOPscience
[09:37:34] <ted-ious> There's a paper that seems to claim that nothing has happened yet.
[09:37:57] <ted-ious> Except that they're using funding data for projects that have been going on for years.
[09:38:37] <ted-ious> But I guess some people will do anything to avoid learning that corruption touches certain sacred cows.
[09:40:08] <ted-ious> https://www.gao.gov
[09:40:20] <ted-ious> Federal agencies identified 52 research activities, totaling about $100.9 million, relevant to geoengineering during fiscal years 2009 and 2010.
[09:40:38] <ted-ious> That's a lot of money for people who aren't doing anything yet.
[09:41:37] <ted-ious> I wonder how much of that money went to so called researchers who were also connected to big oil companies.
[09:42:19] <ted-ious> I woudn't be surprsed if they weren't making even more money than they are investing in these programs.
[09:42:56] <Ingar> oh I am totally convinced people are playing with geoengineering
[09:43:16] <Ingar> I'm jsut not convinced chem trails are a worldwide illuminatie conspiracy
[09:43:19] <ted-ious> Give $5 million to some scientists and get $100 million in contracts to test feasibility by doing 3 years of full scale deployment with the chemicals they have a patent on.
[09:43:31] <ted-ious> No of course not.
[09:43:38] <Ingar> I'm also of the opinion that any geoengineering will have the opposite effect in the long term
[09:44:28] <ted-ious> Take out the illuminati word that I put in there to be ridiculous and replace it with big oil companies or bill gates's investment foundation or whichever corrupt organization you prefer.
[09:44:59] <ted-ious> Also take out the word conspiracy because lots of this is done out in the open.
[09:45:10] <Ingar> nah, I can handle the world conspiracy
[09:45:16] <Ingar> as I said, that's what people do
[09:45:23] <ted-ious> They only use the word conspiracy to smear the people who notice what's going on and think it's a terrible idea.
[09:45:25] <Ingar> making shady agreements behind other people's back
[09:45:45] <Ingar> in normal speech we call it 'politics'
[09:46:01] <Ingar> conspiracy is like politics without public mandate
[09:46:18] <ted-ious> Then I'm confused why you were so resistant a few minutes ago when we were talking about airplane engines.
[09:46:56] <Ingar> ted-ious: becuase airplane exhausts in its own are more than enough
[09:47:24] <Ingar> I've seen thosuands of plane passing over and never noticed any of the funkyness described by this conspiracy
[09:47:44] <Ingar> and a more pragmatic approach
[09:47:56] <Ingar> so there's an airport a few km from here
[09:48:05] <Ingar> assume planes there get chared with chemtrail equipment
[09:48:17] <Ingar> where does it come from, how is it delivered, who handles it
[09:48:37] <Ingar> never heard any commetns from people actually workign there
[09:51:36] <Ingar> I mean, those guys aren''t even capable of monitoring their salt/grit levels during the winter
[09:51:40] <Ingar> (true story)
[10:05:50] <ted-ious> Airplane exhaust on its own is enough to make continent wide clouds that hide the sun?
[10:08:05] <Ingar> from my experience, they're sufficient to cover the entire sky
[10:08:25] <ted-ious> From my experience that's ridiculous. :)
[10:08:38] <Ingar> well, I do astronomy, sky quality is a thing
[10:09:29] <Ingar> maybe I should rephrase it as "I've seen the entire clear sky being covered by exhausts trails, forming thing cloud layers"
[10:09:41] <ted-ious> Well I'm old enough to remember that jet planes used to make trails that disappeared in an hour or two.
[10:10:01] <Ingar> there's a +/- a plane per minute here
[10:10:17] <Ingar> plenty to replenish the trails
[10:10:24] <ted-ious> But now they stay for days and blow from california to virginia and blot out the sun like that matrix cartoon.
[10:10:35] <Ingar> that's not counting the planes in higher corridors just passing through
[10:11:56] <ted-ious> If you have friends at the airport maybe you can do some investigating sometime.
[10:11:59] <Ingar> ted-ious: so maybe they are doing it there and not here, which might explain the discripancies in our observations and opinions
[10:12:21] <ted-ious> Have a look in the cargo holds that have been reduced in capacity for the past few years.
[10:12:46] <Ingar> more stringent fuel efficiency and noise level regulations
[10:13:06] <ted-ious> Citation needed.
[10:13:30] <Ingar> well the more stringent regulations are fact
[10:13:46] <Ingar> (noisy night flights are a thing here, the popular protest is too)
[10:14:12] <Ingar> limits on the number of flights were put in place, some models are no longer allowed to land here
[10:14:13] <ted-ious> If those cargo holds were partly empty you should be able to see it when you looked inside.
[10:15:12] <ted-ious> On the other hand you might find buklheads that weren't part of the original design that were added later to block off sections of the belly.
[10:15:37] <Ingar> that's just boeing adding extre bolts to their losoe parts
[10:15:42] <Ingar> *loose
[10:16:05] <ted-ious> That's an interesting point.
[10:16:48] <ted-ious> Since boeing has become so incompetent maybe the modifications made in the past decade have caused current planes to be less reliable.
[10:16:57] <Ingar> what I would love in this discussion, is to talk to a local airplane maintenance engineer
[10:17:11] <Ingar> I'd take his/her word
[10:17:16] <ted-ious> Why?
[10:17:57] <Ingar> because they have actual hands on experience with the planes and might be able to tell if funky shit is going on ?
[10:18:20] <ted-ious> I'd take their word if they were blowing the whistle and documented things that shouldn't be happening but not if they told me everything was just fine.
[10:18:53] <Ingar> that, is a conspiracy on it's own :p
[10:18:55] <ted-ious> People who get paid to participate in shady business can also be paid to lie about it.
[10:19:26] <ted-ious> Sometimes they lie without being paid just to avoid a threat to their job.
[10:20:05] <Ingar> too bad though, there used to be a company specialised in airplane parts nextdoor
[10:20:08] <Ingar> they moved though
[10:35:44] <Ingar> in other news, headline of the day "Tampons contain metals"
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[11:54:52] <Ingar> went for a sandwich, it smelled like kerosene outside
[13:54:32] <wraith> hello
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[16:44:11] <chromas> They're tryin' to get you Ingar!
[16:44:21] <chromas> Turning you into a chemtrail
[17:56:58] * Ingar yells at cloud
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[20:51:17] <Runaway1956> ted-ious, stop touching my sacred cow! I'll be using a doll to show the judge how you touched it!