#soylent | Logs for 2023-06-10
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[11:30:46] <janrinok> bonjour tous le monde!
[11:30:59] <janrinok> hi gys
[11:31:02] <janrinok> guys
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[16:11:46] <AlwaysNever> Hi. I would like to know your opinions on this: To migrate a community from Mailman-hosted mailing lists, to a Discord server populated with several topic-specific channel ??
[16:12:17] * AlwaysNever has his own opinion on that, but would like to get more input...
[16:18:55] <RunningWithWind> Personally I would avoid discord because it is more driven towards children. For bigger projects that don't want to do IRC anymore I think Matrix related platforms are better. You can use the Element Software, has embedded content just like Discord for Images and whatever. The other part it is encrypted so more secure if you are working on a private project as well.
[16:23:35] <fab23> AlwaysNever: from my point of view, keep Mailman, but I can imagine that the members want to have more colorful and instant communication like any of the avialble messanger Apps.
[16:26:15] <RunningWithWind> Yeah I would keep the mailman but would look at options
[16:27:07] <requerdanos> of course if the discord server already exists, and the migration is a foregone conclusion, then answers in the "don't do that" vein are less helpful, perhaps?
[16:28:36] <RunningWithWind> Indeed - if that ship has already docked in the harbor then your good :)
[16:35:40] <AlwaysNever> RunningWithWind: thanks for suggesting Matrix and Element, I am now looking into that.
[16:37:07] <AlwaysNever> requerdanos: I'm just interesting in exploring what the cons are of going with Discord, the decission is not mine to make, I just want to know what options are there for a case like this
[16:38:06] <mechanicjay> I'm invoved in several communites that on discord. The end result is I never see anything, because it's just another place to go to go check to see what's up. give email, it comes to me.
[16:38:17] <mechanicjay> I'm on like IRC and some slack groups
[16:38:59] <Ingar> Discord is closed source where you are subject to the controlling company's whims
[16:39:12] <Ingar> Happy Birthday Discord
[16:39:29] <AlwaysNever> Is Discord centralized like Facebook or federated like e-mail? Will a Discord server survive and operate it the "mother company" behind Discord goes bamkrupt or something like that?
[16:39:43] <Ingar> no
[16:40:03] <Ingar> I mean, It probabely won't survive
[16:40:44] <mechanicjay> I think it's a big centralized service like slack
[16:40:45] <fab23> AlwaysNever: then Matrix would be the better solution, and you can selfhost.
[16:42:12] <fab23> it is somewhere on my todo list to check out, as well as the Fediverse :)
[16:43:43] <AlwaysNever> fab23: so Discord is centralized, controlled by one single company, closed source, and SaaS that you cannot self host.
[16:44:13] <fab23> AlwaysNever: I don't know, mechanicjay said something like this
[16:44:35] <AlwaysNever> looks like a nice candidate to be used for instant communication, but not to host the archived information of a community...
[16:45:30] <AlwaysNever> so Discord is like whatsapp, but for Desktops
[16:47:37] <fab23> AlwaysNever: Matrix is an open protocol, with multiple server and client implementations
[16:48:49] <AlwaysNever> Anyone has experience with Matrix? Is it just instant messaging, or can it host document repositories and the like in a more "stable" fashion?
[16:50:47] <fab23> hm, not sure if any of the messaging platforms do support someething like this. This would probably be a task for Nextcloud (also OSS and selfhosting, and another item on my ToDo list)
[16:53:45] <fab23> AlwaysNever: on the other hand it does also support Chat: https://nextcloud.com
[16:53:47] <systemd> ^ 03Calls, chat and video conferencing with Nextcloud Talk
[16:56:53] <AlwaysNever> fab23: in reading about Discord features, it looks like it can host document libraries to which you can link in the discord chats...
[16:57:16] <fab23> oh
[17:01:52] <fab23> as others mention, it seems that Discord is centralized like Slack, so check if and how you could get the documents out if needed, or for regular backup.
[17:10:30] <AlwaysNever> fab23: yeah, that's a major problem with Discord, as you say.
[17:11:01] <AlwaysNever> Discord is convenient, but you get "married" to it...
[17:13:20] <fab23> AlwaysNever: and as I have not seen any pricing, I am wondering if the user is the product
[17:16:59] <mechanicjay> Almost certainly.
[17:17:39] <mechanicjay> There is pricing for discord, but its on a per-user basis. Like I can buy a subscription for myself which gives me more stuff I can do, like set a different Nick for each Discord I'm in.
[17:21:15] <fab23> <- does prefer self-hosted services
[17:21:39] <mechanicjay> As do I, in basically every case
[17:22:14] <mechanicjay> This is a hard row to hoe professionally at this point
[17:22:31] <mechanicjay> One gets called irresponsible and a luddite
[17:23:24] <mechanicjay> hosted services have their place, as an augmentation or to fill in a gap.
[17:24:29] <mechanicjay> I spoke to one vendor a couple years ago -- I can't remember what the product was for, but their "on prem" solution cost more than their hosted solution. I fucking laughed them off the phone.
[17:27:19] <janrinok> mechanicjay, you are cruel and heartless :)
[17:28:37] <mechanicjay> The laws and regulaions which govern data, espeically student data are major PITA to handle when dealing with 3rd parties. It's about 1000x times more straight forward if the data never leaves the institution.
[17:33:47] <chromas> Mattermost and Revolt are trying to be replacements for discord
[17:39:06] <mechanicjay> We ran a mattermost for a while -- it's like...not great.
[17:40:05] <mechanicjay> At least they've put a bunch of work into the admin panel over the years, so you're not like running poorly documented ruby scripts on the backend to manage the damn thing
[18:12:11] <AlwaysNever> mechanicjay: so what are you running nowadays instead of Discord?, of finally you had to accept Discord?
[18:12:20] <AlwaysNever> *or
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[18:49:56] <RunningWithWind2> Has there ever been some thoughts of looking at using a Matrix server for Soylent?
[18:50:25] <chromas> is it better than irc for group chat?
[18:51:25] <janrinok> Not that I have ever heard of.
[18:51:27] <RunningWithWind2> It is pretty handy because you can have embeddable content and sharing objects easier so when Kolie and others start doing development it would make it easier for bringing in new developers
[18:52:00] <RunningWithWind2> We use it for a non-profit search enginer project - pretty handy!
[18:52:22] <RunningWithWind2> Also - NCommander - I tried reaching out - not sure the best way to contact ya
[18:52:44] <janrinok> NCommander@soylentnews.org
[18:53:13] <janrinok> He doesn't come on here often.
[18:54:04] <RunningWithWind2> Ah gotcha - Thank you janrinok! I hope you all are having a great Saturday
[18:54:23] <janrinok> Mine is nearly over - but thank you, it hasn't been bad
[18:54:37] <janrinok> approaching 2100 here
[18:54:55] * fab23 will stay on IRC
[18:55:36] <janrinok> If you do not make contact on the email address I can forward a message to his private email if you wish. But I am sure you understand I cannot publish it here.
[18:56:29] <janrinok> RunningWithWind2, you might find an alternative email address on Youtube. Just search for NCommander
[18:56:49] <janrinok> He is on there more than he is here I think.
[19:06:24] <RunningWithWind2> Thank you Jarinok - will check that out too. I am doing an electronic medical record system cutover right now so multi-tasking :)
[19:08:19] <janrinok> best you concentrate before you become tomorrow's story about another breach of data :)
[19:09:01] <Ingar> RunningWithWind2: HL7 and the works?
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