#soylent | Logs for 2021-11-15

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[00:56:49] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Why the Chip Shortage Drags on and On - https://sylnt.us
[00:58:13] <Subsentient> Anyone remember what the study of attempting to calculate the future based on past historical trends is called? I remember reading about this new methodology and I can't remember the word
[00:58:26] <Subsentient> Long-term history repeating etc
[00:59:36] <Bytram> Subsentient: Sounds lime something from Asimov
[01:00:49] <Bytram> Subsentient: Sounds lime something from Asimov's Foundation Trilogy or Robert Jordan's The Wheel of Time
[01:01:01] <Bytram> s/m/k/
[01:01:01] <SedBot> <Bytram> Subsentient: Sounds like something from Asimov's Foundation Trilogy or Robert Jordan's The Wheel of Time
[01:01:22] <chromas> I think they used to call it projection
[01:01:34] <chromas> and forecasting
[01:02:16] <Bytram> that would be more like Asimov, then...
[01:02:24] <chromas> forecastolology
[01:02:33] <Bytram> =g future history
[01:02:33] <systemd> https://en.wikipedia.org - Future history - Wikipedia
[01:02:45] <chromas> they do it with weather and stuff
[01:04:58] <Subsentient> There was a very enlightening article recently that I can't find who talked about one historian who had begun to calculate the future based on the past to a starting degree
[01:05:04] <Subsentient> I'm hoping to find that again
[01:05:35] <Subsentient> Of course I'm more of a "those who learn from history are doomed to watch as others repeat it" type of person myself
[01:06:50] <Bytram> =g Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it
[01:06:51] <systemd> https://liberalarts.vt.edu - History Repeating | College of Liberal Arts and Human Sciences ...
[01:07:21] <Bytram> =g "Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it"
[01:07:22] <systemd> https://en.wikiquote.org - George Santayana - Wikiquote
[01:08:00] <Subsentient> Ahh it's called Cliodynamics
[01:08:25] <Subsentient> Bytram: I like my paraphrase much better -- it's far closer to reality.
[01:09:38] <Bytram> I mis-remembered it: "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
[01:11:03] <Subsentient> Ahh, some good cliodynamical predictions that validate my depressing world view, yay https://www.theatlantic.com
[01:11:03] <systemd> ^ 03The Next Decade Could Be Even Worse
[01:12:03] <Bytram> and then again, it could not. ;)
[01:13:00] <chromas> clitorodynamics
[01:13:43] <chromas> Subsentient: not really. look how algorithms taking over everything has ruined popular culture
[01:15:24] <chromas> if you do everything with muh algorithms and just look to the past, you'll just keep generating the past
[01:15:42] <chromas> you can call it a prequel, or sequel, or soft reboot though and pretend it's new
[01:18:36] <chromas> https://www.youtube.com
[01:18:39] <systemd> ^ 03Vanilla Ice - Havin A Roni - To The Extreme
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[03:56:04] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Team Engineers New Way to Get Medication Past Blood-Brain Barrier - https://sylnt.us - vampire-zombies
[05:19:40] <Runaway1956> I thought McDonald's ruined American culture chromas
[05:19:47] <Runaway1956> that, and Hollyweird
[05:21:22] <chromas> They run on algorithms now
[05:21:44] <chromas> and pedophilia
[05:21:54] <Runaway1956> Has anyone heard that the EU is going to invade Chechoslovakia and Poland to enforce gun control laws?
[05:22:23] <Runaway1956> Russia will probably come to their aid, to fight against the fascist Euros.
[05:22:59] <Runaway1956> And, it's anybody's guess how Finland will swing.
[05:23:28] <Runaway1956> Finns are badass, they feel no need to do anything that others expect of them.
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[06:03:29] <Subsentient> Runaway1956: Lol, that is definitely not happening. Mark my words. The optics would be catastrophic.
[06:07:14] <progo> Runaway1956: you know there is no nation Czechoslovakia now, right?
[06:08:21] <AzumaHazuki> what the fuck is he on about now?
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[06:12:07] <aristarchus> For one thing, evidently Runaway thinks Czechosolvakia still exists. Curious, how your mind can just leave you, at a certain age.
[06:13:22] <AzumaHazuki> quit sockpuppetting, jesus
[06:13:31] <AzumaHazuki> you weaken your own case so badly because of it
[06:18:03] <aristarchus> I have never sockpuppetted jesus, though I have heard of those who have.
[06:19:10] <AzumaHazuki> ye ken well what i mean, lad
[06:22:26] <progo> aye but it's still funny
[06:23:50] <AzumaHazuki> why are so few people willing to do as i do and simply stand on their own two legs and fight, as themselves?
[06:24:12] <AzumaHazuki> socking is a pathetic attempt to make your ideas look like they have more support than they do
[06:24:15] <progo> I've only got one leg, you insensitive clod!
[06:24:15] <aristarchus> Runaway been crusing the 2nd amendingment apocalypse sites? EU to invade member nations?
[06:24:18] <progo> (just kidding)
[06:24:49] <aristarchus> You are conversing with a nearly 2400 year old Greek philosopher, and you want my bona fides?
[06:25:29] <AzumaHazuki> no, i want you to quit socking. you lower yourself to the level of runaway and others like him when you do
[06:26:07] <aristarchus> And what makes you think that I have ever "socked", as you put it?
[06:26:40] <aristarchus> Progo is the one we have to watch out for. Prosthetic socks.
[06:27:49] <AzumaHazuki> because your posting style is a huge identifying beacon
[06:28:03] <AzumaHazuki> it's obvious as the sun. plus you admitted i outed you the other day :)
[06:28:32] <progo> I've been a latent troll all my life, just waiting for my moment of metamorphosis into pro level triggerer
[06:29:23] <progo> if AzumaHazuki ever gets op privilege here, that might just trigger my transformation
[06:29:46] <aristarchus> Congrats, progo! And you have hit the point of the whole thing, triggering those who think they know who is who, and what is what.
[06:29:47] <progo> I have nothing against AzumaHazuki really. it just seems like it would be too much fun
[06:29:52] <AzumaHazuki> into what?
[06:30:05] <progo> into a troll
[06:30:24] <AzumaHazuki> i don't think you have it in you. real trolls seem to be low-functioning sociopaths most of the time
[06:30:31] <aristarchus> Now, now, let's avoid naming like that.
[06:32:31] <AzumaHazuki> also? i play my cards close to my chest. i know more things about more people than i let on, and one of those things is there are fewer actual people out there than usernames :)
[06:32:54] <AzumaHazuki> for whatever reason i tend to get underestimated a lot...
[06:33:19] <progo> my troll best friend who never wandered into this network has a theory that the vast majority of speakers on Twitter, Facebag, Reddit and such are bots
[06:33:42] <boru> It's a modern day Operation Mockingbird.
[06:34:32] <boru> Trending topics with typos have been very obvious examples.
[06:34:58] <aristarchus> I think the Hungergames reference was to "Mockingjay"?
[06:35:06] <progo> https://en.wikipedia.org
[06:35:07] <systemd> ^ 03Operation Mockingbird - Wikipedia
[06:35:16] <progo> aristarchus you have a lot of history to catch up on to get to this era
[06:35:29] <boru> I haven't watched or read the Hunger Games. Similar concept?
[06:35:50] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - China "Boldly Goes" for Space Independence - https://sylnt.us
[06:45:12] <aristarchus> I try my best, but when you have been around as long as I have, you tend to dismiss a lot of crap, out of hand.
[06:45:22] <chromas> to be fair, ari was never above runaway, even before socking
[06:47:12] <AzumaHazuki> drop the act already. why in the hell am i the only one who shoots straight in this rotten world?
[06:47:34] <AzumaHazuki> the irony of the gay girl being a straight shooter is so thick you can grout tiles with it
[06:47:41] <progo> I saw the "curved gunshots" in the film Wanted. it was silly.
[06:58:39] <Runaway1956> Progo, it doesn't matter what they call themselves. I'd still be American if we changed our name to The Mid-Continent State.
[06:59:38] <progo> czechoslovakia was only ever unified by fiat and nothing more
[06:59:45] <Runaway1956> ROFLMAO @ 'Zumi
[06:59:59] <Runaway1956> I thought fiat was a French invention?
[07:02:11] <AzumaHazuki> i can only see half of this and i know it's batshit
[07:02:34] <AzumaHazuki> someone get that boy runaway some diazepam and a stretchy canvas jacket with three sleeves and too many belts
[07:03:33] <Runaway1956> The silly bitch is still playing silly - tell her to go douche, and STFU.
[07:04:10] <Runaway1956> "straight shooter" sits in her echo chamber, pretending she can't hear what's going on around her, then shouts the occassional insult out of her echo chamber
[07:04:37] <Runaway1956> Little Miss "I Put You On Ignore"
[07:04:38] <progo> lol @ Runaway1956
[07:04:58] <AzumaHazuki> progo: I do actually wonder about Czech...however-you-spell it. What was that even all about?
[07:06:04] <progo> I'm not an expert AzumaHazuki, but I'm pretty sure when Europe got re-mapped after the Hitler armageddon, with Russia and USA vying for power, the Czech and Slovak people got lopped together into one client nation of Russia
[07:06:38] <AzumaHazuki> ...oh, gods. just like what happened in the middle east when britain decided to draw arbitrary lines, as it were, in the sand
[07:06:44] <progo> yes
[07:06:59] <Runaway1956> Not "just like" but very similar
[07:07:20] <AzumaHazuki> i don't get why anyone actually thought that would work
[07:07:35] <AzumaHazuki> it's a clear case of priority inversion. borders come from people, not the other way
[07:07:44] <progo> history is full of "you thought that would work? why?"
[07:08:21] <AzumaHazuki> for the longest time i thought things like "don't judge, Hazuki, you wouldn't be any better at this stuff." But really? Holy shit, yes, I would be.
[07:08:28] <Runaway1956> Nobody seriously thought it would "work" - it was just the easiest way to exploit resources and people
[07:08:58] <AzumaHazuki> makes me wonder how much was ignorance and how much was malice or ulterior motives
[07:09:26] <Runaway1956> And, no Hazuki wouldn't be any better - she can't even get a dog to follow her home when she's carrying a bag of pork chops
[07:10:37] <AzumaHazuki> I am beginning to understand the monastic urge, what makes some people become nuns. would never do it because lolreligion, but i understand why some would
[07:11:27] <progo> AzumaHazuki: did you know that in victorian England, garden hermit was a job?
[07:11:40] <progo> you could be employed to live in a folly on the estate and be eccentric
[07:11:47] <AzumaHazuki> i had no idea, but it might actually not be a bad fit
[07:11:47] <progo> some of them were required not to bathe. I draw the line there
[07:11:58] <AzumaHazuki> ...okay yeah, bad fit. i shower daily
[07:12:01] <aristarchus> Czeckoslovakia was formed after the downfall of the Hapsburg Empire, lead by Garrigue Masaryk. Split into the Czech Republic and Slovakia after the fall of the Soviet Union.
[07:12:25] <progo> thanks for clarifying aristarchus
[07:12:33] <aristarchus> Runaway's "history" is fictional.
[07:12:38] <Runaway1956> You've just spent 20 minutes reading up, so you could quote wikipedia, ari?
[07:13:14] <AzumaHazuki> no surprise there, ari. over the last couple of years his posts have gotten more and more unhinged. 20 or 30 years younger and i've no doubt he'd be a serial killer or something
[07:13:23] <AzumaHazuki> ...except i have this weird feeling he's too much of a coward deep down
[07:13:57] <progo> I'm going to sleep now. bye.
[07:14:00] <Runaway1956> Miss Straight Shooter still screaming insults from her echo chamber.
[07:14:44] <Runaway1956> But, I guess she's still superior to the puppet maste, aristockolopholus
[07:14:59] <Runaway1956> g'night progo
[07:15:00] <AzumaHazuki> 'night progo
[07:15:09] <aristarchus> I was in Russia with Masaryk, and when at the end of the War we were not allowed to cross Russian lines, we took the long route through Japan.
[07:15:27] <AzumaHazuki> i doubt that
[07:15:36] <Runaway1956> You were sockpuppeting way back then?
[07:15:37] <aristarchus> G'nite, progo.
[07:16:24] <aristarchus> Read Masaryk's account, The Making of a State. been translated into English.
[07:17:08] <Runaway1956> No doubt, Masaryk is good reading. I'm surprised you've read him.
[07:17:46] <aristarchus> We have had some Czechs here on SN. Much more intelligent than American Arkansas Polacks!
[07:17:49] <AzumaHazuki> in the twilight of civilization, history feels a bit futile. we KNOW how we got here
[07:18:09] <AzumaHazuki> it feels so weird to be living in a doomed timeline
[07:18:36] <Runaway1956> Translation: The few Czechs who have passed through SN have agreed to some extent with progressive articulus
[07:19:04] <aristarchus> Runaway, truly you are an ignorant moron.
[07:19:34] <AzumaHazuki> why waste your time on him them? just block his dumb ass. he'll be dead inside of a decade and shrieking in Hellfire
[07:19:42] <Runaway1956> So says the puppet master. How many puppets were you carrying when "we took the long route through Japan"?
[07:21:01] <boru> To be fair, you could spare the entire channel having to suffer this exchange by the pair of you taking it to a /query.
[07:21:45] <boru> It seems to be a daily occurrence, as of late.
[07:24:19] <aristarchus> 兵者詭道也
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[07:24:54] <Runaway1956> [11/15/21 00:12:07] <aristarchus> For one thing, evidently Runaway thinks Czechosolvakia still exists. Curious, how your mind can just leave you, at a certain age.
[07:25:17] <Runaway1956> See, boru? The man only comes here to insult me.
[07:25:37] <aristarchus> You are a stupid doo-doo head, Runaway!
[07:25:50] <boru> I was referring to you and AzumaHazuki regarding the daily exchange.
[07:25:50] <Runaway1956> ROFL
[07:25:52] <aristarchus> Boru, have you been to my latest journal?
[07:26:07] <boru> I haven't been to the site in a bit. Why do you ask?
[07:26:07] <aristarchus> Or are you one of these IRC only Soylentils?
[07:26:14] <boru> Lately, yeah.
[07:26:18] <boru> Unfortunately, I might add.
[07:26:32] <aristarchus> Because Runaway behaves there, much as he does here.
[07:26:50] <boru> Most of my visits are to read the articles the bots post here.
[07:27:04] <Runaway1956> Ari has made a true and accurate statement - for once.
[07:28:34] <boru> From a cursory glance, person reads Kant, takes him out of context, and superglues his hands to the wrong end of the stick to wave around wildly?
[07:30:23] <aristarchus> And Hazuki, the Fin de siècle prior to the Great War has much the same flavor to it. But humans survived, and got better, and never had another World War, except the one. Now, we punch Nazis in the face.
[07:31:00] <aristarchus> Boru, correct, except the "reading" part. And, a Director at Princeton?
[07:31:47] * Runaway1956 wonders why Ari isn't on a university board of directors
[07:32:13] <aristarchus> Shut up, Runaway, I am only here to insult you, remember?
[07:32:27] <boru> Academic standards have been degrading for some time, be it staff posts, or curriculum, or what constitutes a degree.
[07:32:55] <AzumaHazuki> ari, we weren't looking at a Fermi Paradox level of global warming 80 years ago
[07:33:12] <aristarchus> Unfortunately true. The Italians seem to be trying to up thier game, however.
[07:34:27] <aristarchus> One hundred and two years ago we were not contemplating Global Thermonuclear War, either. Chin up, buttercup!
[07:36:14] <AzumaHazuki> i'm tired of it all. there's nothing left for me to learn here and if anything it seems like people are just getting worse
[07:36:23] <AzumaHazuki> i don't plan on reincarnating either
[07:36:42] <Runaway1956> such an emu
[07:37:40] <aristarchus> Hanging out here may create a false impression! Haven't met many pure assholes like Runaway in the real world.
[07:38:26] <AzumaHazuki> they are legion. 1 in 80 adult males is a sociopath and i suspect that number is 1) an undercount and 2) far higher in positions of any power
[07:43:02] <aristarchus> Hmm, see? No you are making me depressed!
[07:43:51] <aristarchus> s/no /now
[07:43:52] * SedBot tosses a / to arysturchas
[07:45:26] <Runaway1956> Sociopath definition: anyone I can't bully into agreeing with me
[07:46:17] <aristarchus> You are too stupid to recognize rational argument and concede when you are clearly in error. Ignorant moron.
[07:48:55] <Runaway1956> That is untrue. I recognize that APK is slightly more rational than you are.
[07:49:16] <Runaway1956> It's a slim margin, but he is ahead of you.
[07:49:44] <Runaway1956> You and Ethanol Fueled are neck-and-neck.
[07:50:13] <aristarchus> Ignorant moron, Czechoslovakia lover!
[07:50:57] <Runaway1956> I notice that you've praised the Czechs tonight - but no love for the Slovaks.
[07:51:03] <Runaway1956> Racissssssss!
[07:51:38] <aristarchus> Not to mention the Bohemians and the Moravians. More things you didn't know?
[07:51:48] <Runaway1956> What do you do all day, Ari? Mop floors and clean bathrooms?
[07:52:07] <aristarchus> Maitenance is your job description.
[07:52:17] <aristarchus> Ignorant moron!
[07:52:33] <aristarchus> Go read your Kant, Runaway!
[07:52:38] <Runaway1956> Ahhhh, your own ignorance shines forth. Maintenance and housekeeping are totally separate functions.
[07:53:18] <Runaway1956> Maybe you count cabbages in the produce aisle down at the grocery.
[07:53:59] <aristarchus> 遠而示之近近而示之遠
[07:54:23] <Runaway1956> And, I'll have you know that I lived at the top of Moravia Street Hill when I was younger.
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[08:35:10] <SoyCow0486> sup judenrats
[08:35:36] <SoyCow0486> Aww no buddies in da house
[08:35:47] <SoyCow0486> Fuck Jannies.
[08:36:10] <SoyCow0486> I'm a gonna shit on your faces
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[09:04:59] <SoyCow0486> Aloo judenrats
[09:05:14] <SoyCow0486> FBI faggots. Eglin faggots
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[09:35:57] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Cheers! Better Beer From CRISPR Gene-Edited Barley - https://sylnt.us
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[10:44:10] <FatPhil> #weather
[10:44:11] <MrPlow> Voorimehe, 10146 Tallinn, Estonia - Today: "Mostly cloudy throughout the day." 34/29F, Humidity: 81%, Precip: 0%, Wind ~8mph. Tue: "Overcast throughout the day." 43/36F, Humidity: 91%, Precip: 24%, Wind ~13mph. Wed: "Possible light rain overnight." 41/36F, Humidity: 89%, Precip: 23%, Wind ~13mph.
[12:26:08] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Ask the Community: Sci Fi Thought Experiment - https://sylnt.us - yes-no-maybe?
[12:40:08] <FatPhil> ugh, ubuntu's crap. installer's braindead. "Can't create /target/etc/mtab: nonexistent directory" from the lilo-installer.postinst
[12:41:51] <FatPhil> that "directory" being a relative symlink intended to point inside /proc, but during install time pointing nowhere.
[13:04:49] <FatPhil> ugh, and ifconfig isn't installed by default, and it's rather hard to install it if you can't get the network up....
[13:06:39] <FatPhil> let's try a reinstall with more default choices...
[13:20:37] <FatPhil> holy jeebus, the "Software Selection" list is insane, i'm offered 100 different preconfigured selections of packages by utterly meaningless names only
[13:21:15] <FatPhil> what is an ubuntu budgie desktop for pity's sake!?!?
[13:21:54] <janrinok> it has the budgie desktop
[13:22:20] <janrinok> just like Ubuntu MATE has the MATE desktop etvc
[13:22:41] <FatPhil> I haven't got a clue what any of those are, how am I supposed to make a choice between them?
[13:23:04] <janrinok> ah, that be a problem then, that be.....
[13:23:25] <FatPhil> just going for "ubuntu desktop", as it seems the most defaulty by name.
[13:23:31] <boru> Any reason you're picking...ubuntu?
[13:23:34] <FatPhil> yet strangely not the default
[13:23:59] <janrinok> ubuntu desktop might not be what you expect but you can always install any combination of desktops if you don't like ti
[13:24:00] <FatPhil> It's the only linux distro officially supported by our official ID card reader software
[13:24:18] <FatPhil> I'm a DWM user - no desktop will be familiar to me
[13:24:48] <boru> I know the feeling. I use i3.
[13:25:08] <janrinok> Xcfe, MATE, KDE etc
[13:25:13] <boru> Surely it'll work without linuxes.
[13:25:47] <FatPhil> I have no windows machines, and I'm even less inclined to turn this old lappy into one of those than into an ubuntu horror
[13:26:09] <janrinok> FP: https://ubuntu.com
[13:26:10] <systemd> ^ 03Ubuntu flavours | Ubuntu
[13:27:01] <FatPhil> The annoying thing is that we did try and install the ID card software back in about 2012, and that was several wasted days of effort, but we were trying to squeeze it into an unsupported debian at the time.
[13:27:17] <FatPhil> I hope this bullet biting isn't equally frustrating
[13:28:14] <FatPhil> We've just started new bank accounts, and the web bank only works with 2FA, and the "best" 2FA is the ID card, as our phones are too old.
[13:30:26] <boru> Ah right, those things.
[13:31:20] <boru> Could always try an android emulator for the phone app, perhaps.
[13:31:37] <FatPhil> not on our 12-year-old phones
[13:31:52] <boru> No, I mean an android emulator on your computer.
[13:34:48] <FatPhil> That sounds dodgy enough I'd still probably want to have it running on a laptop used for nothing else.
[13:35:03] <boru> Fair enough.
[13:35:24] <FatPhil> if it's available for ubuntu 18.04 LTS, I might try that out here if the ID card reader fails.
[13:36:05] <FatPhil> couldn't see a more modern ubuntu for i386 arch which is what the lappy is.
[13:36:08] <boru> Got any little SBCs laying around to use? Seems like a good use case.
[13:36:43] <boru> Though, since you can run Linux jails and chroots on FreeBSD now, I'd just set up up something dedicated for it that way.
[13:36:54] <FatPhil> I did have a spare RPi - but when I tried to commission it as a hot swap for the one that's been running for years ... it ddn't even boot. On the lookout for some others.
[13:37:24] <boru> I'll probably do a cleanout soon, if you're looking for a few.
[13:37:44] <FatPhil> that's a kind offer, thanks
[13:38:09] <FatPhil> I normally get mine as cast-offs from a Finnish mate.
[13:38:34] <FatPhil> Every bit of hardware, no matter what the spec, costs one crate of beer!
[13:38:44] <FatPhil> Finns...
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[13:39:38] <inz> I have a few spare RPi 1Bs
[13:39:41] <inz> But they're worthless
[13:40:11] <FatPhil> I run my dev webserver on one, because if it's fast enough on that, it's fast enough on anything.
[13:40:40] <inz> good point
[13:45:00] <FatPhil> Top Tip: Improve the adverts you get served whilst browsing the web by searching for the price of new or classic Rolls Royces once a week.
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[13:58:48] <FatPhil> Todayt's just getting worse - it got 97% through tthe installation, and then the laptop just powered down
[14:00:49] <FatPhil> And it looks like 'rescue' doesn't help you pick up where you left off.
[14:01:00] <FatPhil> Do I have to do the whole process a third time?
[14:03:52] <FatPhil> no bootloader was installed
[14:06:16] <boru> I don't know how people stand to use those distros.
[14:07:04] <FatPhil> this is psychopathic
[14:07:18] <inz> I've never had any issues with ubuntu installer.
[14:07:47] <inz> Although I do tend to use the alternate installer, it's more keyboard friendly
[14:07:53] <FatPhil> then again, debian/devuan's the same superficially. I've just never had a supposedly stateless install crash mid-way through before.
[14:09:07] <FatPhil> One thing that would be microscopically less psychopathic is if you could tell the partitioner to use the current partitions, and import an /etc/fstab from one of them
[14:09:51] <FatPhil> but no, I'm futilely telling it what goes where again...
[14:10:47] <FatPhil> Ah, yup, there really seems to be no way you can continue an interrupted install.
[14:11:02] <FatPhil> Let's try a third time...
[14:11:25] <Bytram> FatPhil: Old skool
[14:12:01] <Bytram> check all the connections on the board?
[14:12:42] <inz> I had one botched ubuntu upgrade with full disc encryption, I had to manually open luks on boot for a while
[14:12:55] <Bytram> are they properly seated? dust? etc.
[14:14:36] <FatPhil> Bytram: eeepc lappy, practically no moving parts. There were occasional issues which is why we retired it. But its average uptime was days, which should be enough to log into a webbank and do a transfer, so good enough for all we need this box for.
[14:16:05] <FatPhil> I wonder if I can do a live USB boot ubuntu and then install software on top of that? There were systems that let you do that in the past, but wasn't offered on the ubuntu list
[14:16:39] <Bytram> eeepc? by ASUS, right?
[14:17:27] <FatPhil> So, given that I have another chance to chose, what gui desktp should I chose rather than "ubuntu desktop"? Lightweight's better, this is an underpowered machine.
[14:18:06] <FatPhil> yeah, ASUS, crappy old N2600 inside. Was nice and portable 8 years ago, but showing its age.
[14:18:20] <Bytram> FatPhil: sry, have very limited exp installing distros
[14:18:48] <FatPhil> I've done nothing but very minimal debian/devuan installs for ~20 years.
[14:20:36] <Bytram> I loved mine at the time. when windows was much smaller, too. 80(?) GB hard disk and 2 (4?) GB RAM
[14:21:31] <FatPhil> Another thing that's psychopathic is not recording in /etc/network/interfaces the network that was used for the installation process. The user should never have to unneccessarily enter the exact same data twice.
[14:21:34] <Bytram> FatPhil: suggest checking with chromas or janrinok
[14:21:54] <FatPhil> I'm 1G RAM on this thing. Ubuntu's really going to creak.
[14:22:59] <Bytram> oh, yep, 1 GB RAM. I misremembered
[14:23:38] <FatPhil> We upgraded to SSD, that's all, but it was a huge improvement over spinning rust.
[14:23:53] <FatPhil> and of course, SSDs can be pulled out and used anywhere else.
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[14:30:39] <Bytram> mine is long since gone/died :(
[14:31:39] <Teckla> Oof, Linus on Linux Tech Tips had some serious issues installing and running games on Linux
[14:31:44] <Teckla> Using Pop!_OS
[14:32:08] <FatPhil> we retired this about a year ago. Resurrection is out of desperation...
[14:32:23] <Teckla> s/Linux Tech Tips/Linus Tech Tips/
[14:32:47] <Teckla> The other guy, whose name I forget, had issues too, using a distro whose name I also forget, haha :)
[14:33:03] <Teckla> Maybe it was Linux Mint
[14:34:28] <Teckla> FatPhil: Regarding lightweight desktops; I had good luck with Fluxbox, back in the day.
[14:35:33] <FatPhil> Sounds like 'Lubuntu' is the flavour for me
[14:36:13] <FatPhil> Of course - I'm offered 6 different Lubuntus in the menu.
[14:36:37] * boru chuckles.
[14:36:52] <FatPhil> I'm drinking coffee and getting wound up.
[14:37:11] <janrinok> i386 hasn't been supported for a while so you might need to go back to 18.04 or so
[14:37:12] <FatPhil> I should be drinking beer and just hitting random buttons cackling.
[14:37:23] <FatPhil> yup, I'm 18.04 LTS here.
[14:37:38] <FatPhil> It's "supported-ish" by the ID card software.
[14:37:49] <janrinok> k, I suppose that I should back read before jumping back in...
[14:38:08] <FatPhil> basically, not supported, but they let you install their packages on it and say "go for it, all yours"
[14:38:41] <janrinok> you might actually have problems installing because you've only got 1GB?
[14:39:09] <FatPhil> https://itsfoss.com implied "L" might be the *ubuntu that could work
[14:39:10] <systemd> ^ 03Explained: Which Ubuntu Version Should I Use? - It's FOSS
[14:39:50] <janrinok> if you do - install the server variant and then just the minimum desktop of your choice. Then it will not install loads of crap such as LibreOffice and other things that you do not need
[14:40:10] <FatPhil> Too late!
[14:40:27] <janrinok> sorry - I've just awoken from my kip....
[14:40:28] <FatPhil> I'll try that on the 4th attempt at installing, later this evening. :/
[14:40:50] <janrinok> lol - i like a man who is positive about things
[14:41:57] <FatPhil> 1297 packages on their way...
[14:42:12] <FatPhil> I'm glad I'm not on dialup :)
[14:42:27] <janrinok> a fair few of them might not even run if you only have 1GB
[14:43:45] <FatPhil> I am the kind of person who will remove packages that I see no purpose for. However, I just want to see the thing running first, cleaning up it purely a post-processing task.
[14:44:17] <janrinok> I tend to leave them in our of pure laziness once I have a working system
[14:44:31] <janrinok> s/our/out/
[14:44:31] <SedBot> <janrinok> I tend to leave them in out of pure laziness once I have a working system
[14:45:03] <janrinok> they are only taking up disk space as long as they are not running in the background by default
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[14:47:38] <FatPhil> I'm hoping to only power this up a every month or so, so I'll probably not bother tweaking it at all.
[14:48:21] <FatPhil> Oh, shit, I was having so much fun I nearly forgot to do my phone banking chores today. No point having a new bank account if there's no money transferred into it...
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[15:03:36] <Teckla> As an Old Guy, it boggles my mind that 1 GiB is considered not-very-much memory for a desktop OS.
[15:09:56] <inz> My browser eats 1,5 GiB and my email client another 600 MiB
[15:10:22] <inz> Everything else fits comfortably in 1 GiB (except when linking C++, then all 32 GiB can get used)
[15:15:59] <FatPhil> Hmmm, installation seems to have completed OK...
[15:16:59] <FatPhil> can't log in :(
[15:17:36] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Amazon Rainforest Birds’ Bodies Transform Due to Climate Change - https://sylnt.us
[15:18:59] <inz> did you use some weird characters in your password and now the keyboard layout is different?
[15:19:47] <janrinok> agree with inz, sounds like it might be kbd
[15:19:53] <FatPhil> Just checked, the punctuation gets through OK in the console, but the passwords aren't recognised (tried as both a nobody and as root)
[15:20:43] <janrinok> does it give you a choice of accounts on the login page?
[15:21:11] <FatPhil> nope, there's some weird pulldown that only offers "other", then a usernama and password box.
[15:21:22] <janrinok> root is normally not accessible directly so I wouldn't expect that one to work. Usually you specify a username during the installation
[15:21:47] <FatPhil> I'm unfamiliar with Lubuntu, not sure what the "other" refers to
[15:22:07] <janrinok> neither am I
[15:22:21] <FatPhil> Yeah, I typed in my usual non-privileged username and the password twice- it accepted it during the install process
[15:22:45] <FatPhil> and now I can't bleeding boot the rescue stick...
[15:22:56] <janrinok> sounding more like it defaulted to perhaps US kbd during installation
[15:23:01] <boru> Can you get to a pty and log in?
[15:23:19] <boru> Might indicate if your user is at least in /etc/shadow...
[15:23:49] <boru> Takes the xorg bullshit out of the equation, as well.
[15:24:02] <FatPhil> same failure from virtual consoles, that's the first place I head for!
[15:24:25] <FatPhil> I specified US kbd, and it's acting as one correctly.
[15:24:56] <boru> Set init=/bin/sh on your kernel line and go and look in /etc/shadow
[15:25:32] <boru> If you're using FDE, you'll need to attach and mount things yourself if `mount` doesn't work (i.e. it's messed up your fstab as well...)
[15:26:03] <FatPhil> Any idea how to edit the boot command? this installed grub, and I don't use grub.
[15:26:24] <janrinok> nope, I use grub
[15:26:32] <FatPhil> At the moment, I'm failing to even boot from USB - the rescue option there would let me start a chroot shell
[15:26:38] <boru> The last time I used grub was a long, long time ago. I think `e` will drop you into a shell where you can edit it.
[15:26:57] <boru> I haven't used linux in ~10-15 years.
[15:28:05] <FatPhil> OK, BIOS is retarded, finally managed to get into rescue mode...
[15:29:18] <janrinok> Ubuntu say that minimum for 18.04 is 2GB (and dual CPU) If you are getting bizarre problems it might indicate that is the problem
[15:30:02] <FatPhil> The amount of shit it forces you to enter, adn then downloads, and then asks you more about, is insane. I just want a rescue shell. I used to have a floppy for that...
[15:31:36] <FatPhil> There is no user account in /etc/passwd etc. !?!??
[15:32:58] <FatPhil> yeah, this time it didn't ask me to create one. the previous 2 times it did.
[15:33:14] <FatPhil> it also didn't offer me the chance of lilo this time.
[15:33:25] <FatPhil> I thought computers were supposed to be deterministic
[15:34:38] <FatPhil> adduser run...
[15:34:58] <FatPhil> It's not so much "using the computer", it's more "tricking the computer into doing what you want".
[15:36:01] <Bytram> =g rescuecd
[15:36:02] <systemd> https://www.system-rescue.org - SystemRescue - System Rescue Homepage
[15:36:47] <FatPhil> Woh, now that was weird. I got the "other" pulldown, and entered uname and passwd, and then it sends me right back to the login box again, this time with My Name instead of "other", and asking for my password again. What did it just do?
[15:37:30] <Bytram> FatPhil: maybe try something along those lines? A rescuecd-type distribution?
[15:37:30] <Teckla> My understanding is Lubuntu is... not well maintained, nor well staffed.
[15:37:53] <FatPhil> OK, that hasn't worked. It accepts the password, but I dont' ever spawn an X session for me, just dropping straight back out to the login box.
[15:38:24] <boru> Just go in in runlevel 3 and debug x with startx.
[15:38:36] <boru> If you can't get to a tty.
[15:38:42] <FatPhil> So, clearly, "adduser" doesn't sufficiently add a user
[15:39:12] <Teckla> Sadly, the most reliable "computer" I own, is probably my iPad.
[15:39:21] <Teckla> If only Apple weren't dicks about their App Store.
[15:39:48] <FatPhil> OK, adduser didn't create a $HOME for me
[15:40:31] <FatPhil> and of course I'm not in sudoers
[15:41:06] <FatPhil> I'll see if I can get in via init=/bin/sh somehow
[15:41:32] <boru> Or just runlevel 3, but init=/bin/sh will at least bypass auth for you and give you a root shell.
[15:42:03] <FatPhil> How can I select runlevel? 'e' didn't work during boot
[15:42:26] <boru> Not sure, but it used to just be putting the run level number at the end of the kernel line. Might've changed.
[15:42:40] <FatPhil> I can't edit the kernel command line
[15:42:45] <boru> As for grub, I don't recall.
[15:43:04] <boru> Yeah, you'll need to do that part from grub, but if it's not `e`, I don't know.
[15:43:26] <boru> For BSD questions, I can offer recent knowledge, but not for linux.
[15:43:47] <FatPhil> 'e' didn't work. internet says "press and hold the left Shift key right after starting the system"
[15:43:50] <boru> Bear wtih me.
[15:44:07] <FatPhil> shift worked
[15:44:11] <boru> Ah, okay.
[15:44:41] <FatPhil> woh, 'e' from that menu leads me to dark magick
[15:45:02] <boru> Need to roll my DNS server for updates, one moment.
[15:45:37] <FatPhil> this is some kind of shell-script-alike
[15:46:21] <boru> If it's grub 2, seems like you need to select the boot entry before `e`
[15:46:35] <FatPhil> does ubuntu even do runlevels?
[15:46:51] <boru> It's the linux kernel at this point.
[15:47:05] <FatPhil> Yeah, with an init...
[15:47:24] <FatPhil> that's gonna be systemd
[15:47:27] <boru> Well, it gets set to systemd shite on systems which use it.
[15:47:33] <FatPhil> there seems to be a 'recovery' mode
[15:47:36] <boru> init is just set to process 1.
[15:47:48] <boru> Can be `bc` for all you care.
[15:47:50] <FatPhil> no choice about the init
[15:48:03] <boru> You need to add it.
[15:48:15] <boru> Go to the kernel line and put `init=/bin/sh`
[15:48:56] <FatPhil> recovery mode seems to work - it's mounted everything, and I have root
[15:49:02] <boru> You should have, at least, a `linux` line and `initrd` line, if things are still the same.
[15:49:05] <boru> Ah, okay.
[15:49:14] <boru> You're set then, I'd say.
[15:51:01] <FatPhil> deluser'ed. adduser'ed again. Checked - home directory created
[15:51:48] <boru> So there was a user in /etc/shadow, but no home dir?
[15:52:38] <FatPhil> Not sure what was wrong, apart from the console login attempt succeeding with a "no home directory" failure. Whether that was the failure causing GUI login to fail, I don't know.
[15:52:50] <boru> What does `last` tell you?
[15:52:56] <FatPhil> init 3 has given me multiple consoles, might try the full X...
[15:53:07] <boru> Or su to your user and try startx.
[15:54:31] <FatPhil> logged in from console OK, home really is there. No idea how it could have failed in the past.
[15:55:44] <FatPhil> Ugh, init 3 was a bad idea - I've lost my root shell!
[15:55:48] <FatPhil> back into grub again
[15:58:10] <FatPhil> root passwd added...
[15:59:06] <Bytram> HUNTER4
[15:59:18] <boru> I must say, the state of modern linux seems laughable.
[15:59:33] <boru> This much hassle to get a login shell...
[16:00:57] <FatPhil> OK, I now have a desktop!
[16:01:07] <boru> Finally.
[16:01:55] <Bytram> FatPhil++
[16:01:55] <Bender> karma - fatphil: 156
[16:02:02] <FatPhil> Well, thanks for being great teddybears - and actually having good suggestions too!
[16:02:08] <janrinok> fatphil++
[16:02:08] <Bender> karma - fatphil: 157
[16:02:20] * FatPhil realises he can now longer count his grey hairs :/
[16:03:00] <janrinok> .... because they are now falling out or simply outnumbering your ability to count?
[16:03:15] <Bytram> janrinok++
[16:03:15] <Bender> karma - janrinok: 80
[16:03:15] <boru> Pulled them all out trying to use ubuntu.
[16:03:26] <FatPhil> all three - at the same time!
[16:04:54] <FatPhil> boru++
[16:04:54] <Bender> karma - boru: 66
[16:04:59] <FatPhil> Bytram++
[16:04:59] <Bender> karma - bytram: 177
[16:05:03] <FatPhil> janrinok++
[16:05:03] <Bender> karma - janrinok: 81
[16:06:07] <FatPhil> OK, some things seem to be working, I even just wtiddled with the user account using gui tools that required root access, because I think adduser didn't do everything that the gui expected.
[16:08:11] <FatPhil> I am not going to touch *anything*. I'll let 'er-at-the-office do the ID card thing when she gets home. My brain's fried.
[16:08:36] <boru> I'd say it's whiskey o'clock after all of that.
[16:08:55] <FatPhil> Although it is tempting to have a bit of a play with one of these fancy schmanchy modern guis...
[16:09:04] <FatPhil> boru++ definitely!
[16:09:04] <Bender> karma - boru: 67
[16:09:42] <Bytram> FatPhil: Suggestion? Now that things are (mostly) working... DO A BACKUP! Or do you want to have to go through this whole process AGAIN?
[16:10:20] <boru> I agree. I doubt it's ZFS, but if it is, snapshot time.
[16:11:16] <FatPhil> ooooh, can I mount a fs multiple times in multiple locations?
[16:11:53] <FatPhil> I wonder if when I did the first adduser, the home directory was created in the wrong partition, as the /home fs wasn't mounted.
[16:12:18] <FatPhil> if I can sniff into / without all the other stuff mounted on it, that will explain things.
[16:12:27] <Bytram> and *THAT* is just the king of thing that will kill you (and any nearby cats!)
[16:13:29] <FatPhil> I'm pretty sure I did mount -a before adduser, but i've done so many things I do't remember what order they were all in
[16:14:04] <Bytram> do a backup, now, and don't give an excuse to say "WE TOLD YOU SO!"
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[16:14:36] <FatPhil> with what, onto what, via what?
[16:15:28] <janrinok> haven't you got a spare usb drive anywhere? I always have a couple around
[16:16:08] <FatPhil> Well, I'm hoping I don't need that install iso any more, so yup, I do have that one
[16:16:37] <janrinok> you'll need that to access you installed system - you can't back up your mounted disk from itself
[16:17:40] <boru> Or for that, add a PXE entry to grub and keep the image on your network somewhere.
[16:17:58] <boru> That's how I usually rescue systems whose BIOS supports PXE.
[16:18:38] <FatPhil> not a bad idea, I should look into that. not sure if the crappy NAS we have is prepared to serve that.
[16:19:46] <FatPhil> One of those ones you can only configure using a web browser, where the interface is a windowing system written in JS.
[16:19:48] <boru> You can TFTP it on demand .
[16:19:58] <boru> Sounds awful.
[16:20:07] <boru> But if you can SSH into it, you should be okay.
[16:21:10] <FatPhil> they dicked with authentication, and SSH don't work like how it ought to. Something very dodgy going on with system accounts, IIRC.
[16:22:05] <boru> Let me guess: synology or qnap?
[16:22:41] <FatPhil> synology rings a bell.
[16:23:58] <boru> Aye. Their software is special...
[16:24:05] <janrinok> if you have set up your own home directory you will have to manually run ssh-keygen - ubuntu does it automatically when it creates the first user but might not have done in your case
[16:25:03] <boru> As is normally the case...
[16:25:29] <FatPhil> I turned user into a "Desktop User" using the admin tools. That created all the retarded systemd directories.
[16:25:39] <janrinok> as I say, ubuntu normally does that on a first install but you are correct
[16:25:57] <janrinok> boru^
[16:27:11] <boru> That is alarming, but I guess security isn't their primary objective.
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[16:27:52] <janrinok> it does a host of things to the first user account (sudo, ssh etc) because logging in as root is disabled by default
[16:28:02] <boru> I see.
[16:28:20] * spazza burps
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[16:31:30] <FatPhil> Ugh, when I stuck the install media back in, it automatically mounted the partitions, even though I clicked cancel to not mount them
[16:32:13] <FatPhil> Plopped some icons on teh desktop, but no "unmount" option in the context-sensitive menu
[16:32:49] <boru> Is it a children'd distro or some such?
[16:32:57] <boru> s/'d/'s/
[16:32:57] <SedBot> <boru> Is it a children's distro or some such?
[16:33:13] <FatPhil> Ubuntu - so trying to be OSX
[16:33:39] <FatPhil> Will dragging the icon to the rubbish bin unmount it?
[16:33:54] <janrinok> sort of - it is easy for anyone to get it going, but it has to protect them from themselves. If you have used linux before you can disable all the 'helpful' tweaks that they have added
[16:34:04] <boru> It will probably delete your user again and ask you to reinstall.
[16:34:06] <FatPhil> because it's asking "do you want to move the file 'cdrom' to the rubbish bin", which doesn't sound like unmounting.
[16:34:12] <FatPhil> Wheeeee!!!!!
[16:34:37] <FatPhil> Am i supposed to just yank out the key?
[16:35:01] <janrinok> FP no. if you can find it in you desktop browser - whichever lubuntu uses, then right-clicking normally gives you the umount option
[16:35:16] <boru> Open a terminal, su, umount /mnt/point
[16:35:31] <boru> To hell with this graphical nonsense.
[16:35:53] <FatPhil> boru++
[16:35:54] <Bender> karma - boru: 68
[16:35:59] <janrinok> PCManFM seems to the the thing....
[16:36:02] <FatPhil> to hell with it, it's horrible
[16:36:52] <boru> As graphical FMs go, pcmanfm is probably the least horrible, imho.
[16:37:36] <FatPhil> Call me a perv, but I think WWG 3.11 was about as good as file managers get!
[16:37:59] <FatPhil> not that I use any. Command line for everything, in general.
[16:38:18] <FatPhil> the GUI at least reacted immediately to the $ umount
[16:38:20] <janrinok> not sure how you will do your banking from cli
[16:38:22] <boru> Aye, but mc is sometimes useful.
[16:38:41] <FatPhil> janrinok: I ain't planning on doing my banking from a file manager either!
[16:38:54] <boru> Though I do most of the things I'd use mc for over sftp and friends.
[16:39:06] <janrinok> have you tried your browser?
[16:39:27] <boru> Real Men™ bank with telex.
[16:39:31] <janrinok> lol
[16:39:56] <FatPhil> I'm a bit too scared to try a browser still
[16:40:20] <janrinok> I think it gives you FF if I recall correctly
[16:40:30] <FatPhil> More sychopathy - some of the tools in the status bar disappear when you click outside their popup, but others don't.
[16:40:38] <FatPhil> s/sy/psy/
[16:40:38] <SedBot> <FatPhil> More psychopathy - some of the tools in the status bar disappear when you click outside their popup, but others don't.
[16:41:35] <janrinok> ... although it will be FF from 3 years ago - 18.04
[16:41:59] <FatPhil> 'tis FF 94.0
[16:42:31] <boru> I'd imagine security backporting if it's an LTS.
[16:42:35] <boru> So yeah, recent FF.
[16:42:50] <janrinok> whether that is good or bad is a personal choice
[16:42:53] <boru> Since FF is such a mess now, it gets a version bump weekly...
[16:43:00] <Bytram> While you are all here I have a SQL QUESTION: Is there a way to do "field += integer" on all records matching a selection? UPDATE user_info.expire_date = user_info.expire_date + 7 days
[16:43:27] <boru> Not my wheelhouse, but probably one of the other lads here.
[16:44:16] <FatPhil> UPDATE user_info SET expire_date=DATE_ADD(expire_date, INTERVAL 7 days); or whatever the precise date diddling syntax is
[16:44:39] <janrinok> Well, we've both learned something there....
[16:45:17] <FatPhil> WHERE user_name = 'aristarchus' ;-)
[16:45:30] <janrinok> better go and set fire to my daily pile of logs - it is getting cool here now
[16:45:57] <Bytram> FatPhil++ TYVM!
[16:45:57] <Bender> karma - fatphil: 158
[16:46:11] <FatPhil> One of the nice things about mysql is that they online docs are pretty google-friendly. I never bother remembering precise function names, I just google for 'mysql date functions' and it's one click away
[16:46:44] <Bytram> abtone else have a suggestion, or better, a link (MySQL)
[16:47:37] <Bytram> =g "mysql date functions"
[16:47:38] <systemd> https://www.mysqltutorial.org - MySQL Date Functions: Handling Date & Time Data More Effectively;
[16:48:47] <Bytram> https://www.mysqltutorial.org
[16:48:48] <FatPhil> my search engine (startpage) takes me to https://dev.mysql.com
[16:48:48] <systemd> ^ 03MySQL DATE_ADD: Adding an Interval to a Date or DATETIME Value
[16:48:49] <systemd> ^ 03MySQL :: MySQL 8.0 Reference Manual :: 12.7 Date and Time Functions
[16:55:04] <chromas> ooh, I got my first spam. do I...do I hang it up on the wall?
[16:56:42] <Bytram> use it to make a sandwich!
[16:58:32] <FatPhil> my god, people in software seem to have invented new forms of psychopathy. Tried to move a firefox cfg window, but there was no handle/bar to move it with. Resized it from the bottom right corner, and that moved *all* corners in opposite directions simultaniously.
[16:58:48] <Bytram> that does it for me, I'm wiped out. nap time.
[16:59:48] <chromas> oh if you're on plain ubuntu then you must be running the guhnome 3
[17:15:39] <FatPhil> Woh, pigeon's psychopathic too - the IRC window just popped open again 50 minutes afer I closed it.
[17:16:41] <Bytram> FatPhil: How's that backup coming along? =)
[17:22:36] <FatPhil> nothing worth backing up!
[17:25:00] * boru chuckles.
[17:25:20] <boru> Time to install irssi, I reckon.
[17:30:42] <Bytram> ~grab FatPhil
[17:30:53] <Bytram> !grab FatPhil
[17:30:53] <Bender> Added quote 1059
[17:32:18] <FatPhil> Ahhhh, the sweet release of the realisation of futility...
[17:32:53] <FatPhil> Now I'm trying to install the ID Card reader, its installation script barfs, telling me that i386 isn't supported.
[17:33:24] <FatPhil> apparently, all the world's a Vax still.
[17:35:32] <chromas> is that why we have unix-style operating systems that pretend they're on printer terminals?
[17:57:29] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Facebook Puts Instagram for Kids on Hold After Pushback - https://sylnt.us
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[20:18:44] <Teckla> boru: Regarding: "Aye, but mc is sometimes useful." -- Are you referring to Midnight Commander here? If so... that's one of my favorite utilities. So *damn* nice and useful.
[20:21:41] <Teckla> Ah, never mind; after reading further, the context answers the question.
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[20:46:52] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - NASA's Juno Captures High Quality Jupiter Photo - https://sylnt.us - Jupiter-eye-candy
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[21:17:46] <SoyCow4043> "The only thing worse than a real Mexican is a fake one. Vote Beto!" -- Roger McConnely "Beto" O'Rourke
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[21:25:18] <Bytram> Teckla: re: "mc" ... that Midnight Commander was what I thought at the time, and now I'm not so sure! What did/do you take it to mean?
[21:26:37] <Teckla> I think in context they are in fact referring to Midnight Commander
[21:26:48] <Teckla> I know there are other file managers, but I've been using mc for years, used to it now :)
[21:27:38] <Bytram> what? you mean it is still around?
[21:28:08] * Bytram remembers it from DOS (?) days!
[21:29:36] <Teckla> I used something similar way back on DOS 2.0 (I believe?). I think that's when they introduced directories.
[21:29:49] <Teckla> Maybe it was Norton Commander? Can't recall the name anymore.
[21:30:14] <Bytram> =w Midnight Commander
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[21:30:52] <Bytram> =g Midnight Commander
[21:31:16] <Bytram> no bot =(
[21:31:32] <Teckla> R.I.P. SoylentNews Bot
[21:32:26] <Bytram> >>> "GNU Midnight Commander is a free cross-platform orthodox file manager. It was started by Miguel de Icaza in 1994 as a clone of the then-popular Norton Commander. GNU Midnight Commander is part of the GNU project and is licensed under the terms of the GNU General Public License. More at "Wikipedia""
[21:36:40] <Teckla> There were multiple good file managers back in the DOS days
[21:37:00] <Teckla> Just cannot recall the one I used anymore for 100% sure
[21:38:50] <Bytram> I was a command-line bigot back in the day, though I am somewhat more accepting of a GUI, now.
[21:39:01] * Teckla uses a mix
[21:39:39] <progo> midnight commander has a better UI for "copy a folder and its descendants" than cp ever did
[21:39:40] <progo> fite me
[21:40:01] <progo> of course if you're writing a script you'd better know cp or else use rsync
[21:40:08] <Bytram> what command invokes midnight commander?
[21:51:30] <boru> mc
[21:53:51] <Bytram> boru: TY! Yup, do not have it installed.
[22:12:22] <FatPhil> wasn't it just a rip-off of norton commander?
[22:13:30] <FatPhil> I remember the norton tools from the days I was on DOS 3.0
[22:13:54] <FatPhil> didn't encounter mc until at least 3 years later
[22:21:20] <Bytram> FatPhil: see ~12 lines above =)
[22:22:05] <FatPhil> ah, yes
[22:22:25] <FatPhil> glad to see my memory still works in the long term, even if not in the very short term!
[22:22:37] <FatPhil> any submission bots working?
[22:22:52] <FatPhil> ~sub https://www.msn.com
[22:23:07] <FatPhil> #sub https://www.msn.com
[22:23:11] <FatPhil> arse
[22:23:14] <FatPhil> bots__
[22:23:16] <FatPhil> bots--
[22:23:16] <Bender> karma - bots: -68
[22:23:22] <FatPhil> well, that one works
[22:24:03] <FatPhil> also https://www.space.com and https://www.spacecom.mil
[22:25:01] <Bytram> FatPhil: there is #submit, but it just submits a link, title, and the first line or so of the story. :/
[22:30:39] <FatPhil> #submit https://www.space.com and https://www.spacecom.mil
[22:30:40] <MrPlow> Submitting. There is a mandatory delay, please be patient.
[22:31:05] <MrPlow> Submission successful. https://soylentnews.org
[22:31:42] <FatPhil> Ooooh, this is a very interesting and novel interpretation of the constitution: "You lose the right to self-defense when you're the one who brought the gun"
[22:32:38] <FatPhil> I think a better case would have been "Kyle Rittenhouse is *literally* Chewbacca, you must find him guilty on all counts"
[22:35:42] <Bytram> https://www.nasa.gov https://www.nasa.gov
[22:35:57] <FatPhil> "The judge ... has dismissed the charge that the teen was unlawfully carrying a weapon"
[22:47:20] <Bytram> #submit https://www.top500.org
[22:47:21] <MrPlow> Unable to find a summary for that page
[22:48:09] <Bytram> #submit https://www.top500.org
[22:48:10] <MrPlow> Unable to find a summary for that page
[22:53:52] <Bytram> #smake MrPlow
[22:53:53] * MrPlow smakes MrPlow upside the head with a beefstick
[22:55:03] <Bytram> :)
[22:55:10] <Bytram> :D
[22:55:26] <Bytram> :p
[22:55:38] <Bytram> ;)
[22:59:40] <Bytram> #submit https://www.hpcwire.com
[22:59:41] <MrPlow> Submitting. There is a mandatory delay, please be patient.
[23:00:06] <MrPlow> Submission successful. https://soylentnews.org
[23:22:41] <FatPhil> so it's november already, eh?
[23:23:39] <Bytram> beware the ides of... November!
[23:23:53] <FatPhil> I was looking forward to seeing more technical info on that green500 winner,the completely new architecture (about 2-3 years ago). It seems it hasn't made much impact outside the sites originally behind it, so might die simply out of lack of commercial interest.
[23:25:29] <Bytram> NIH? Isn't that out of Japan?
[23:26:44] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Surveillance Firm Pays $1 Million Fine After 'Spy Van' Scandal - https://sylnt.us
[23:31:59] <FatPhil> It was Japanese, IIRC