#soylent | Logs for 2021-03-27

« return
[00:00:44] <c0lo> bacterium, it doesn't need to be a civil war. I'd be happy to continue coding and assigning the code to FSF. I only want to know that my code will be protected from being arrested by Google
[00:02:51] <bacterium> yeah
[00:03:02] <bacterium> god only knows what will happen to fsf now
[00:03:05] <FatPhil> Was watching remote-controlled hunks of steel hit each other for the last couple of hours, wish I'd been active here instead.
[00:03:57] <FatPhil> the only jobs I've had for the last 1-2 decades (not quite 2, well over 1, stopped counting after a while) have been for companies making GPL'ed software.
[00:04:44] <FatPhil> So it is an issue in whose game I have skin.
[00:05:20] <FatPhil> c0lo++ very closely aligned with the points you have made
[00:05:20] <Bender> karma - c0lo: 30
[00:08:40] <FatPhil> RMS is certainly part jerk, part fool, but I still think that his resolute stance on many things is a nett positive.
[00:08:44] <FatPhil> Everyone's flawed.
[00:09:15] <FatPhil> Does no-one remember "Everyone Loves ESR (Except Me)" or whatever it was called.
[00:12:25] <NCommander> c0lo, bacterium: so let me ask you this. Excluding everything else, rms is *old*. He's going to die sooner or later. There's no successorship plans or similar that I seen. If the FSF can't survive without rms, then there's a much bigger problem
[00:12:34] <NCommander> Since the movement is entirely dependent on one person and that's not a good sign.
[00:14:13] <NCommander> (as stated, I feel FOSS is better without rms in a leadership role, but your view of the world still has the fundamental problem that rms is 1. mortal 2. old. He's going to return 0 at some point)
[00:14:55] -!- c0lo has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
[00:31:23] <FatPhil> people live longer nowadays, RMS < Creaky Joe
[00:34:50] -!- c0lo [c0lo!~c0lo@zqs-646-162-243-166.static.vic.bigpond.net.au] has joined #soylent
[00:36:10] * c0lo finally installed an IRC client
[00:37:13] <FatPhil> what were you using before?
[00:37:41] <c0lo> Web interface. Lazy fuck I am
[00:38:59] <c0lo> NCommander, find the replacement before RMS dies, no matter the cause of death (including being "killed" by FSF)
[00:39:27] <c0lo> Do it *before* he dies tho (or before FSF "kills" him)
[00:41:10] <c0lo> Otherwise, very likely you are going to hurt an entire world of GLP-ed software developers.
[00:41:57] <bacterium> NCommander: my sentiment exactly, and i already complained about the complete absence of a plan for leadership hand-over, and hey, look, perhaps something will finally be done?
[00:42:22] <bacterium> https://www.fsf.org
[00:42:24] <systemd> ^ 03Update on work to improve governance at the FSF
[00:43:01] <c0lo> bacterium, I don't trust they will, focused as they are on killing the creepy RMS.
[00:43:23] <bacterium> who? i am lost now
[00:43:34] <c0lo> NCommander, I'll be ecstatic to be proven wron.
[00:44:06] -!- AzumaHazuki [AzumaHazuki!~hazuki@the.end.of.time] has joined #soylent
[00:44:15] <c0lo> bacterium, I don't trust the today's fsf that they are making succession plans.
[00:45:02] <bacterium> well shit their record on getting things done speaks against them, but at least they seem to be willing for like 3 straight days now
[00:45:32] <Teckla> c0lo: IRCCloud is pretty nice, and has a free tier.
[00:45:37] * Teckla is a subscriber.
[00:46:01] <c0lo> "The voting members unanimously agreed to elect a union staff member"... yeah, like I care about their iternals when I'm affraid they forgot their mission.
[00:46:38] * c0lo installed HexChat on my devuan Looks ok for the purpose.
[00:46:44] <bacterium> i think this is specifically to address rms's leadership style
[00:47:24] <AzumaHazuki> c0lo, my one and only concern about this whole mess is that a bunch of explicitly anti-GPL partisans seem to be taking advantage of it
[00:47:26] <c0lo> I'll probably live to see what happens one way or the other.
[00:47:55] <AzumaHazuki> more than anything else, the FSF needs to lawyer up yesterday and do all they can to keep the GPL safe and alive. Ideally, Stallman (and any other person) should be irrelevant
[00:48:28] <c0lo> AzumaHazuki, I don't care how they got dragged in this intestinal farm, I do care about GPL.
[00:48:42] <bacterium> the interesting thing, c0lo, i am at loss as to what the correct leadership model should be, bd(fl?) got us thus far, do we simply change horses now? i am afraid democracy would kill the mission in months, so that's probably not an answer
[00:49:07] <c0lo> Why and how seems less important now, I'd rather let them to historians
[00:49:19] <AzumaHazuki> same here. this whole thing smells. though, as I said on the forums, it's possible for both 1) Stallman to be fatally encumbered with organization-killing baggage and 2) people using the complainants as useful idiots in an attempt to kill the GPL
[00:49:35] <c0lo> I'm worried about *what* is the likely outcome.
[00:50:24] <chromas> Time for libre/gpl fork
[00:50:34] <bacterium> i would like to repeat the comment of doom i saw: the end goal of stallmangate is his removal from gnu, presumably, i guess, to gave it relicensed or something, so fsf is just a checkpoint
[00:50:58] <bacterium> s/gave/have/
[00:50:58] <SedBot> <bacterium> i would like to repeat the comment of doom i saw: the end goal of stallmangate is his removal from gnu, presumably, i guess, to have it relicensed or something, so fsf is just a checkpoint
[00:51:37] <AzumaHazuki> someone at MS must be laughing themselves hoarse. god damn it...
[00:51:51] <bacterium> well, they are hosting that party
[00:52:52] <c0lo> "what the correct leadership model should be" A knight for software freedom that RMS projected, without the creepiness of interpersonal relation of RMS the man.
[00:53:42] <c0lo> And, in regards with the second part, I'm a neutral party... that FSF internals.
[00:53:56] <bacterium> ikr, someone with less anti-charm
[00:54:21] <AzumaHazuki> it's not hard. even I have better Charisma than Stallman and I somehow rolled a negative two-digit number for that stat off a single D6
[00:54:32] <bacterium> a politician-man (or woman, or table, per NCommander, anything less abrasive)
[00:54:50] <c0lo> Definitely a politician.
[00:55:12] <bacterium> we are fucked, man, we are now hoping for a politician to save us
[00:55:30] <c0lo> FSF is long gone as the only relevant source of free software.
[00:55:34] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - 'Double Mutant': What are the Risks of India's New Covid-19 Variant - https://sylnt.us - Weren't-they-in-the-X-Men?
[00:55:55] * bacterium wraps itself around well-marketed IPA
[00:56:44] <bacterium> someone needs to advocate, and i put no hope in software shops, someone needs to be non-profit in order to take on the cartel
[00:56:49] <c0lo> If FSF cramps on the position of "but we make software first and defend it after", that's a waste of effort.
[00:57:09] <AzumaHazuki> c0lo, the elephant in the room here is, what do we do to make sure the GPL stays alive and robust? THAT is the important thing. It all hinges on the GPL
[00:57:22] <AzumaHazuki> i almost wonder if we need Torvalds personally to step in, except IIRC he's no fan of v3
[00:57:47] <c0lo> IDK, AzumaHazuki, those things happen to me, have no controll over them
[00:57:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> #submit https://hackaday.com
[00:57:54] <MrPlow> Submitting. There is a mandatory delay, please be patient.
[00:58:19] <MrPlow> Submission successful. https://soylentnews.org
[00:58:28] <c0lo> I can only bitch about the risks to GPL.
[00:58:41] <Bytram> =asub http://rss.cnn.com
[00:58:45] <systemd> ✓* Sub-ccess! "08Sea-level Rise is Accelerating to its Highest Levels in at Least 2,000 Years Across the Northeast, I" (5p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[00:59:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> AzumaHazuki, it ain't the FSF that keeps people using the GPL and if it does get fucked in an official manner, forking it's easy.
[01:00:10] <AzumaHazuki> makes me think we need some kind of legal escrow, or a sort of license/code "seed vault"
[01:00:19] <TheMightyBuzzard> which is to say: fear not, young hero. the gpl ain't going anywhere even if the fsf explodes.
[01:00:33] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: FSF *owns* the GPL copyright
[01:01:01] <Bytram> what ahappens if FSF goes away (or more likely, gets bought out)
[01:01:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> you can copyright contracts? that's a new one on me.
[01:02:01] <TheMightyBuzzard> sure you could trademark the name, but copyright?
[01:03:15] <AzumaHazuki> i never did get deeply into studying law, mostly because the vast majority of it seems like "Calvinball but people die"
[01:03:21] <Bytram> the gpl, iirc, has the copyright held for it by the fsf. for whatever reason, if fsf finds itself strugglinh,or someone dangles $bugnum in front of them, bad stuff *could* happen (no saying it's likely; just that it could)
[01:04:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> the legal folks internet pages say: sort of
[01:04:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> but mostly not really
[01:05:06] <Bytram> not following... what does that mean?
[01:05:23] <TheMightyBuzzard> it means nobody copyrights contracts
[01:05:44] <c0lo> TheMightyBuzzard, it's about who defends you in the case Google takes your copyright and shits on you.
[01:06:08] <c0lo> As in "claims that you don't have any right to use it"
[01:06:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> there are cases where copyright has been upheld but using other people's contracts without paying for them is insanely common practice as well
[01:06:42] <c0lo> True, it *should* be an open/close suit, but I'm affraid the reality is not rosy.
[01:07:08] <c0lo> To my knowledge, GPL has never been tested in a court.
[01:07:49] <Bytram> say people get royally pissed of at FSF and/or RMS. Stop $contributing. FSF goes bankrupt. I buy the FSF and all that it owns. That means I own the copyrights. Think of deceased singers whose spouses still collect on copyrights from 50+ years ago.
[01:07:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> i think it's mostly because a contract is a functional thing and has, as a general rule, no artistic creativity
[01:07:55] <c0lo> I wouldn't like to see a minuscule programmer sued, losing and establishing a precedent.
[01:08:22] <AzumaHazuki> plus with all the goddamn Republican partisans gunking up the system, odds are good they'll go "fuck you because fuck you, you don't donate and $BIGCORP does, the GPL's toilet paper"
[01:08:24] * Bytram is not that tall. would I count?
[01:08:43] <AzumaHazuki> funny how people who think they're on the side of freedom keep doing things to get corrupt authoritarian thugs in places of power
[01:08:46] <TheMightyBuzzard> nah, republicans like contracts
[01:08:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> and copyright
[01:08:54] <c0lo> Let the Republican partisans aside please.
[01:09:04] <c0lo> It's defocusing the discussion.
[01:09:30] <AzumaHazuki> this country is soul-sick, c0lo, and it's sickness unto death. there's no concept of public good any longer, which is basically what the GPL and the "zeroth freedom" are putting into concrete terms
[01:09:43] <c0lo> It's about Oracle Larry fucking shit, not GOP
[01:09:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, i think whoever bought it would wind up in SCOTUS defending the ability of ANY contract to be copyrighted
[01:09:55] * Bytram hopes to get to bed at a reasonable hour tonight. time to push out a couple stories and then hit the hay.
[01:10:16] <AzumaHazuki> i would bet large chunks of Microsoft and Google are behind this too
[01:10:57] <c0lo> Whoever else just waiting for GLP to fail even in some minor debatable aspect of it.
[01:11:15] <TheMightyBuzzard> doesn't bother me. anything already under the GPL can stay under it as long as it likes. and switching to FUGPLv2 only requires a quick sed script
[01:11:29] <c0lo> Google, Oracle, IBM, microsoft... you name it
[01:12:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> FYI, copyright law does NOT cover the conditions in a contract, only the specific wording and not always that
[01:12:06] <c0lo> "anything already under the GPL can stay under it as long as it likes" Not if a court says the contrary.
[01:12:21] <AzumaHazuki> the legal end of this has always been a weakness for F/OSS, for the simple reason that the law has always been of by and for business, despite progress here and there to the contrary
[01:12:52] <AzumaHazuki> this was a massively uneven fight from day one and the US is now just plutocratic, corrupt, and atomized enough that I could see the SCOTUS invalidating the GPL because "fuck you poors"
[01:13:01] <c0lo> TMB, prove me wrong with a case in which GLP was defended in a court.
[01:13:11] <c0lo> and won.
[01:13:23] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, it's been tested in US courts for 19 years now
[01:13:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> https://www.osnews.com
[01:13:39] <systemd> ^ 03The GNU GPL to be tested in court – OSnews
[01:14:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> check the comments as well
[01:14:50] <c0lo> Yeap, thanks.
[01:15:27] <c0lo> I perceive the risk as lower now. It doesn't mean no risk tho.
[01:16:05] <c0lo> Still need someone like ACLU for software if FSF dies.
[01:16:49] <Bytram> c0lo: IRC is *not* down. https://soylentnews.org
[01:16:50] <systemd> ^ 03META: IRC down???: SoylentNews Submission
[01:17:04] <Bytram> nope.
[01:17:05] <AzumaHazuki> ...shit, IRC's down? Why didn't someone tell us?
[01:17:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> switch licenses. take the gpl and rephrase it. contract law only covers specific wording not functionality.
[01:17:26] <c0lo> bytram, yes. I panicked. Please do delete that from the queue.
[01:17:30] <TheMightyBuzzard> s/contract/copyright/
[01:17:30] <SedBot> <TheMightyBuzzard> switch licenses. take the gpl and rephrase it. copyright law only covers specific wording not functionality.
[01:17:40] <c0lo> Apologies bytram.
[01:18:15] <Bytram> c0lo: np. gave me a chuckle which is much appreciated right about now.
[01:18:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> some good reading if you're interested. this is NOT an unexplored legal area. https://www.upcounsel.com
[01:18:43] <systemd> ^ 03UpCounsel
[01:19:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> cause, lawyers. suingest bunch of so's n so's there is.
[01:19:12] <c0lo> TMB, if I'm sued ovr some GPL that I done, I may lose the rights to the code if I lose the suit. Nothing to change the license on.
[01:19:34] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, you could only lose the rights to use the license. it doesn't infect the code.
[01:21:02] <c0lo> TMB, I'm not in the non-problem of copyrighting contracts.
[01:21:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> gpl is a contract
[01:21:36] <c0lo> I'm in the case of "I wrote GPL-ed code, someone arrests it, what can I do"
[01:21:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> sue for violation of contract
[01:22:06] <bacterium> gnu is the holy grail, because FSF is the copyright holder, c0lo is right to be paranoid
[01:22:16] <c0lo> This is where a organisation able to defend the GPL-ed copyright is necessary.
[01:22:29] <Runaway1956> thurd wurld turdhole https://www.youtube.com
[01:22:30] <systemd> ^ 03Portland: City Of Homeless Tents And Boarded Up Buildings
[01:22:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> now gnu kinda matters but it's all GPL'd, so it can be forked six ways to sunday.
[01:22:37] <bacterium> if FSF goes south, it can relicense GNU proprietary
[01:22:42] <c0lo> Like, yeah, TMB, I'm gonna sue Oracle. Suuureee.
[01:23:07] <bacterium> i mean, sorry, if GNU goes south
[01:23:16] <bacterium> no, FSF
[01:23:22] <bacterium> IPA speaking
[01:23:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, anyone who's ever used it can defend it. and plenty of other organizations would jump in on that. including most of the big corps, because they use and write a lot of GPL'd code.
[01:23:52] <c0lo> More likely the effect will be that I'll stop writting code for public. That's exactly what Oracle would be ecstatic over.
[01:25:01] <c0lo> TMB, "anyone who's ever used it can defend it". I have no warranties that they'll *actually* do it.
[01:25:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> you're a user
[01:25:30] <TheMightyBuzzard> and so is google, amazon, and even microsoft
[01:25:43] <c0lo> An org that was setup with that mission *should* act as a strong detterent in an explicit way.
[01:26:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> what, like some sort of electronic frontier foundation?
[01:26:29] <c0lo> I'm an author who can't fight corporations.
[01:26:31] <chromas> I thought that's why they kept rms around for. A deterrent in more ways than one
[01:26:47] <c0lo> Do I continue to author if I'm attacked by them?
[01:27:06] <chromas> Use the wtfpl
[01:27:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> you sue. and you get help.
[01:27:57] <c0lo> chromas, yes. And if they want rms gone, I'm asking "who do you replace with. Tell me *before* you disappear him"
[01:28:28] <c0lo> TMB, name an or that has the mission to help me.
[01:28:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> show of hands, who'd contribute to the legal fund of some little guy getting steamrolled by bigcorp if his loss meant the invalidation of the gpl?
[01:28:40] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, the eff
[01:28:40] <c0lo> s/or/org/
[01:28:40] <SedBot> <c0lo> TMB, name an org that has the mission to help me.
[01:29:20] <c0lo> Which EFF can be argued it has no standing, no copyright assigned to it.
[01:29:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, you sue
[01:29:46] <TheMightyBuzzard> you HAVE TO sue. it can't be the eff or FSF
[01:30:06] <c0lo> I sue and EFF is denied participation in the court.
[01:30:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> never happen
[01:30:42] <c0lo> Sends an Amicus which the court uses as TP
[01:30:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> well maybe in oz
[01:31:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> dude, they'd pay your legal bills for the gpl
[01:31:17] <Runaway1956> Who says politicians have no sense of humor? https://www.rt.com
[01:31:20] <systemd> ^ 03Happy CONFEDERATE constitution day! Belarus mercilessly trolls US Embassy after it praised German-backed puppet regime of WW1
[01:31:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> like if your legal bills included raising john jay from the dead to first chair your case, they'd still pay.
[01:32:09] <c0lo> But does not defend me, I'm to take the time (and _maybe_ their money) to do the battle, right?
[01:32:23] <TheMightyBuzzard> no... you're to hire a lawyer and let them pay for it
[01:32:47] <c0lo> When I actually be so much better writing code and have someone pecialized to carry the battle for me.
[01:32:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> or let them pick one even better. don't think up stupid objections just cause you wanna worry, think about what'd really happen.
[01:33:07] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, the FSF CAN NOT file suit on gpl violations.
[01:33:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> except for code they hold the copyright on
[01:33:31] <bacterium> which is GNU, a big fucking deal
[01:33:42] <c0lo> What really happen that I'm reacting to hem, when I'd be happier with a pro-action.
[01:33:42] <bacterium> lol TMB i am drunk now
[01:33:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> knife, spoon, ...
[01:33:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, doesn't work that way
[01:34:01] <c0lo> IDK, maybe like an org strong enough for the purpose?
[01:34:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> that's what the eff is sposed to be, fsf too for more specific stuff. but they can't take over the case. it has to be your case.
[01:34:53] <bacterium> i think FSF in in a race against time to defeat the copyright itself, or else some kind of cancer will get it
[01:35:00] <c0lo> I could assign temporary the copyright to them if they would only exist.
[01:36:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> it'd need to have been assigned at the time of the violation. the copyright troll lawyers got that precedent set.
[01:36:40] <TheMightyBuzzard> so at least they did one good thing with their miserable existences.
[01:36:47] <bacterium> and perhaps what we need is 2 stallman replacements: just as stallwart as the original, but politicians with golden tongues, one taking care of the GNU bananza, and the other one advocating
[01:37:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> nah, leave stallman. known quantity. change is always worse.
[01:37:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> or start an entirely new thing.
[01:37:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> that's new not change.
[01:38:55] <bacterium> stallman is like 1 foot in grave, the "open" letter calls him an "ablist" but that's anover-estimate at best
[01:38:58] <Bytram> "change is always worse"? Be sure you don't fix those bugs I reported!
[01:39:28] <bacterium> stallman can barely move, hear, or, apparently, communicate with females
[01:39:39] <bacterium> s/ or / and /
[01:39:52] <TheMightyBuzzard> right now if you put someone in as a stallman replacement, you'd get someone more interested in being woke than free software. so you'd lose the backing of anyone who wasn't woke enough and you'd lose any effectiveness because they'd be too busy figuring out how to find a half black half persian gay trans woman
[01:40:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, remember the new threading modes?
[01:40:53] <Bytram> ST:NG?
[01:40:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> and that was both necessary and minor
[01:41:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> dealing with folks who was pretty happy with us at the time.
[01:41:21] <Bytram> time optimization, IIRC?
[01:41:31] <chromas> We need a bad threading mode for April one called st:d
[01:41:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> yeah
[01:41:52] <Bytram> ISTR about a month of harried patches
[01:42:05] <TheMightyBuzzard> dude, that's like 5 days away. if you want anything that takes more than an hour, it will have to wait till next year.
[01:42:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, exactly. they liked us and still rioted over a forced change, necessary or no.
[01:43:00] <Bytram> I came home from work, saw the accouncement that it had gone live, and literally said "Nooooooo!!!!!"
[01:43:37] <Bytram> as I suspected at that moment, if was well over a month before that got working correctly.
[01:43:44] <Bytram> s/if/it/
[01:43:44] <SedBot> <Bytram> as I suspected at that moment, it was well over a month before that got working correctly.
[01:45:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> what i'm saying is let the FSF be what the FSF is. if you don't like what the FSF is, start up the LSF.
[01:47:19] <bacterium> unabbreviate already
[01:47:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> libre
[01:48:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net
[01:51:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> neat, bump stocks are legal again
[01:52:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> why anyone'd use one instead of having one little piece machined down at your local machinist is beyond me but score one for the 2a.
[02:13:33] <c0lo> https://www.fox19.com
[02:13:34] <systemd> ^ 03Why a West Chester board member removed his shirt during a recent town hall
[02:15:36] * Runaway1956 looks around IRC at all the double mutants
[02:23:10] bacterium is now known as bacteria
[02:24:44] <bacteria> voilà
[02:26:43] <c0lo> took our jobs or what? https://www.thedailybeast.com
[02:26:44] <systemd> ^ 03Montana Senator Appears to Pine for Days of ‘Homegrown’ Meth
[02:29:14] -!- boru` [boru`!~boru@uffb-95-099-080-088.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #soylent
[02:29:17] -!- boru has quit [Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by boru`!~boru@uffb-95-099-080-088.dynamic.mnet-online.de))]
[02:29:19] boru` is now known as boru
[02:48:36] <AzumaHazuki> public service annoucement: if you get an email with "Knock knock" as the subject, do NOT open it. It's a Jehovah's Witness working from home! :D
[03:02:28] <bacteria> they always pass up our house
[03:03:13] <bacteria> my housemate upstairs is like, PLEASE alert me if they come, and i am like, not after they are done with yours truly, but they never come
[03:06:00] <bacteria> they ALWAYS rign the house next door
[03:06:15] <bacteria> owners changed, and they still do
[03:06:36] <bacteria> they must have a list or something, and we are blacklisted
[03:09:30] <AzumaHazuki> i got bothered by them once. i just told them they're early for the coven meeting and the aborted third-trimester Christian fetus isn't done in the crockpot yet
[03:15:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> amateurs. i invite them in, offer them some coffee, and have a nice, pleasant discussion between two people who have somewhat differing opinions on whatever they feel like talking about. until they rage quit because i keep winning.
[03:17:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> as a general rule, they're still better than baptists though. even if they do have some really squirrely ideas.
[03:32:32] <Bytram> quick question? Isn't there a way to ask google to tell me all pages that link to a particular page? For example, I'm looking at a journal entry and want to know what stories link to it, say: https://www.nature.com
[03:32:34] <systemd> ^ 03Atomic clocks compared with astounding accuracy
[03:50:42] -!- AzumaHazuki has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[03:53:36] -!- AzumaHazuki [AzumaHazuki!~hazuki@the.end.of.time] has joined #soylent
[04:35:23] <TheMightyBuzzard> huh.
[04:38:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> knife + misc edged weapons deaths 2019: just under 1476. deaths by going UFC on their ass (unarmed): 600 even. rifle deaths (yes, including the scary ones): under 500
[04:38:50] <TheMightyBuzzard> s/just under //
[04:38:50] <SedBot> <TheMightyBuzzard> knife + misc edged weapons deaths 2019: 1476. deaths by going UFC on their ass (unarmed): 600 even. rifle deaths (yes, including the scary ones): under 500
[05:03:55] <AzumaHazuki> i think i see uzzard's problem: no ability to think in nuance. we've got a mental health problem more than a gun problem, but there's a disproportionate number of dangerous people with firearms. so as part of the solution to this, track and register the things and close the loopholes
[05:04:19] <AzumaHazuki> that's reasonable, fair, sane, and not even that hard to implement. yet i predict there will be screeching and assmad from the usual suspects at the very idea
[05:46:37] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Event Horizon Telescope Captures New View of Black Hole in Polarized Light - https://sylnt.us
[06:12:23] <bacteria> fuck yeah
[08:25:36] <kyonko> Azuma
[08:25:43] <kyonko> Hai
[08:26:08] <kyonko> I believe humans come from monkeys and that the world should become an ultra violent prison
[08:33:50] <bacteria> and let us guess, you also like john carpenter movies?
[08:36:54] <bacteria> can't blame you, they are amazing
[08:38:11] <FatPhil> which carpenter movie is that, not sure if I've seen it?
[08:38:20] <FatPhil> ~g'morning all
[08:39:44] <kyonko> escape from new york
[08:39:55] <FatPhil> kurt wossizface
[08:40:22] <FatPhil> I've seen one of those, I think, there was a sequel I've not
[08:41:39] <FatPhil> 5/10 for that one, which on my scale means "this entertained me"
[08:46:22] <kyonko> yeah its entertainment, like rap music
[08:46:31] <kyonko> beastie boys, eminem, russian crap
[08:46:52] <kyonko> eminem is 10 years sober
[08:46:55] <kyonko> and I'm 5
[08:48:56] <chromas> Sobriety doesn't make for good music I guess
[08:49:11] <FatPhil> I find rap to be missing an initial 'c'.
[08:49:28] <FatPhil> Having said that, /Sabotage/'s video is classic.
[08:49:45] <chromas> What do you have against rappists?
[08:50:18] <FatPhil> /The In Sound From Way Out/, not being rap, shows that they actually do have some talent.
[08:51:44] <FatPhil> I see so little talent on display. There are a few islands dotted around, but most of the garbage is mass-produced stuff clearly designed to extract pocket-money from teens.
[08:53:18] <FatPhil> I forget which movie it was, perhaps an Adam Driver one, which had Method Man trying out a few new lines to himself as he was waiting in a laundrette, and it was clear that he was actually a poet with some real creativity, for example. (He wrote his own lines for the movie)
[08:53:34] <chromas> Why use talent when you can just program a neutral net to generate midis, render them in cubase and call ti a day?
[08:54:10] <FatPhil> That's basically how it's been for the last few decades.
[08:54:33] <FatPhil> The only change is that Markov Models are out of fashion, and it's all Neural Nets instead now.
[08:56:50] <kyonko> Gnural Nets
[08:56:55] <kyonko> Keep it FLOSS
[08:57:02] <kyonko> at least KNOW how its doing it
[08:57:27] <kyonko> and make it all ogg/vorbis and uploaded to your lynx friendly site
[08:57:39] <FatPhil> alas that's not where the secrets are in ai now - it's all in the training data, not the code.
[08:57:55] <kyonko> Bah
[08:57:58] <kyonko> AI has babyhood
[08:58:04] <kyonko> abort it
[08:58:30] <FatPhil> AI is going through its 'magic' phase.
[08:58:52] <FatPhil> It's just demonstrating to us how easily we humans are fooled.
[08:59:07] <chromas> vorbis is dead. it's all opus now
[09:00:08] <FatPhil> Live is Life, eh?
[09:00:13] <FatPhil> =yt Live is Life
[09:00:14] <systemd> https://youtube.com - Live is Life - Opus (04:05; 180,353,878 views; 👍709,588 👎28,120)
[09:00:41] <chromas> opus, .45 magnum
[09:00:46] <FatPhil> =yt Leben heist Leben
[09:00:47] <systemd> https://youtube.com - Laibach - Opus Dei (Life is Life) Official Video (04:31; 3,002,041 views; 👍24,081 👎1,175)
[09:01:25] <kyonko> FatPhil : Invalid Partition Table: BAD MAGIC
[09:02:02] <kyonko> I still have a lot of photorec image_remaining.dd to process
[09:02:07] <kyonko> THANK YOU WINDOWS 10
[09:02:45] <FatPhil> =yt laibach ein nation
[09:02:46] <systemd> https://youtube.com - Laibach - Geburt einer Nation (Opus Dei) Official Video, 1987 (04:22; 859,801 views; 👍6,367 👎184)
[09:03:18] <chromas> if you use an ntfs undelete utility then you'll get the proper filenames
[09:06:34] <kyonko> it was mostly pbs newshour youtube hd video downloads
[09:17:45] <c0lo> groan... atttrrrrocious even as parodies
[09:20:47] <c0lo> =yt ppNFJbMrOHw
[09:20:48] <systemd> https://youtube.com - Zawinul Syndicate 75th Lugano 2007 - Orient Express - (10:06; 280,490 views; 👍2,278 👎46)
[09:25:41] -!- Ethanol-Fueled [Ethanol-Fueled!~59bbad82@89.187.gil.xsv] has joined #soylent
[09:25:50] <Ethanol-Fueled> How very mature, Kikes.
[09:26:20] -!- Ethanol-Fueled has quit [Client Quit]
[09:37:12] <FatPhil> What have you got against Slovenian Industrial Rock?
[09:38:15] <FatPhil> Sorry, *Yugoslavian* Industrial Rock.
[09:38:26] <FatPhil> One mustn't rewrite history.
[10:02:59] <kyonko> Melnia Trump
[10:03:12] <kyonko> FLILF
[10:26:41] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - "Expert" Hackers Used 11 0-Days to Infect Windows, IOS, and Android Users - https://sylnt.us
[11:03:02] <c0lo> Good voice
[11:03:07] <c0lo> =yt KuTHzzGZmcc
[11:03:07] <systemd> https://youtube.com - Larisa Dolina & Estonian Radio Orchestra - Answer Me (soul, Russia / Estonia, USSR, 1979) (03:16; 4,898 views; 👍277 👎2)
[11:09:43] <FatPhil> she's singing in the wrong language!
[11:24:30] <c0lo> FatPhil, there you have it https://www.youtube.com
[11:24:31] <systemd> ^ 03Black Cat White Cat - Pitbull Music Theme (Original Version, High Quality)
[11:24:54] <c0lo> If you didn't watch the movie, find it.
[11:29:45] <FatPhil> https://www.imdb.com ?
[11:29:46] <systemd> ^ 03Black Cat, White Cat (1998) - IMDb
[11:32:44] <FatPhil> I do see several Чёрная кошка, белый кот torrents, finding one with en subs is the challenge
[11:34:50] <FatPhil> don't want one dubbed in russian, for example...
[11:45:07] <c0lo> https://www.ebay.com
[11:45:07] <c0lo> h388i0VuUOllnft3hLLMubNRQlbbJVobbWnvsfPNKcNvJg%252BZt2S3r0qfsYOkDeTqtzqLwHjnh8XXPLQBbaP7GZElfC%252F%252BJm0YZxj%252BR2cM4tdiqHz%252FJHWlI2bL9ld5l%252Fnl7HoFxP6SYHUjfAFD%252BGSUFjCeX7k8x%252BL%252FYiUCPmfmr2QNACgs0qtyYAydDU%252Bo7yZYEPz1FFlORD%252FJcAS%252BY%252FYHKVdw56QedhPEQ5tt7rsEUUELq1yeGD4H80T%252FL3uy3KAmVbqk%252FZWpc0%252BuqsQwePrOnFZ7LXS8U3rEO7FZccR%252FRQjDoxXEjjqZCzgFBdE98SQYd%252BOjSIRDBzsVXbhks8vGaYSARlkz4Hvx8LkUAKG9
[11:45:08] <c0lo> sfXPTmV1BcitFFxmLP%252F5b0dq1l5DPNsO9d9%252FhW9h7AMUHG0K9nTC2nk5jKYP%252F0uvZSKi0944OBR2I%252BeD%252BbcpFnHmRhXjwNEwUbd3IezetrW4aKBBtXAjz7%252B06KHqQ5BEncofwQ9xzjMJyNXfkZ%252BLyD0ivG7Y%252Baq8RPYbTUuLWVNN4un8f%252F29AF0281bhf0vUAgLjDd0ThvxGSl48%252FHz7v3mCprlxl0tY9k6zOmZ%252FaSm%252BhYWqeS2eulZT16JRoET3CNR3EQyHJ8%253D%7Ccksum%3A2739816734689b978fdca2344cb99a6895cccc14d114%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2334524
[11:45:08] <systemd> ^ 03Black Cat, White Cat [1998] [DVD][Region 2]
[11:45:27] <c0lo> Oh, gosh, really?
[11:46:22] <c0lo> Next time I'll have to stop hitting that enter so quick.
[11:51:47] <FatPhil> now I can track you...
[11:53:21] <FatPhil> I remember DVDs, they were those shiny things, weren't they?
[11:53:37] <FatPhil> the things you would buy, and then you wouldn't be allowed to play if you moved country.
[12:03:03] <c0lo> Unless you use Linux and Decsssssss it (might have been a lot less es-es, but anywho)
[12:43:43] <c0lo> Check this, FatPhil, see if you like it better than slovenian industrial rock https://www.youtube.com
[12:43:45] <systemd> ^ 03Domnişoara Pogany - Minaret
[12:45:48] <c0lo> I think I'll explore this a bit more https://www.youtube.com
[12:45:49] <systemd> ^ 03Frédéric Moreau
[12:56:32] <FatPhil> I'm not so into industrial rock, it's just that I found the covers well done
[13:01:18] <FatPhil> Minaret does have a middle-eastern feel to it. I presume from the band name that they're Romanian. Good stuff.
[13:02:42] <FatPhil> =yt phoenix urss
[13:02:43] <systemd> https://youtube.com - Phoenix - In umbra marelui urs (High sound quality) (05:58; 5,838,036 views; 👍22,677 👎942)
[13:03:52] <FatPhil> urss, urs, ooops, must have made a typo ;-)
[13:13:51] <FatPhil> Thanks for that - now hunting out a few other tracks from that and other albums, there seems to be a fair bit on YT
[13:21:10] <FatPhil> So apparently I now know #97 and #1 on this list! http://romaniarock.ro
[13:21:14] <systemd> ^ 03Top 100 albume rock romanesc - Romania Rock
[13:21:19] <c0lo> Ah, yes, I just knew I knew them https://www.youtube.com
[13:21:20] <systemd> ^ 03PHOENIX - INVOCATIE Romanian Progressive Rock
[13:21:52] <FatPhil> Really must visit Romania when this shit is over. Gotta do a deep dive in some 2nd-hand record shops...
[13:23:34] <FatPhil> *Everyone* knows Phoenix!
[13:25:50] <c0lo> Sounds like a midpoint between PFloyd and Jethro
[13:26:08] <FatPhil> It's quite "derivative" prog rock
[13:29:36] <FatPhil> We only have a bootleg copy of Cantafabule from scratchy vinyl we got from a Romanian who lives in Canada. It looks like it's been rereleased since then, maybe should get a HQ version.
[13:37:42] <c0lo> =g phoenix band
[13:37:43] <systemd> http://wearephoenix.com - Phoenix
[13:38:20] <c0lo> Look like google doesn't now 'bout them.
[13:38:32] <c0lo> =g phoenix romanian band
[13:38:33] <systemd> https://en.wikipedia.org - Transsylvania Phoenix - Wikipedia
[13:39:13] <FatPhil> http://cultural-opposition.eu
[13:39:15] <systemd> ^ 03Phoenix. Cantafabule, 1975. Vinyl disc - Registry - Courage – Connecting collections
[13:41:53] <FatPhil> We helped a Romanian guy in Canada work on English language translations of the lyrics. There were some sneaky references in there that weren't just about fairy story beasies, IIRC.
[13:42:08] <FatPhil> same guy, bizarrely enough!
[13:42:34] <c0lo> got 1h35 of them on yt https://www.youtube.com
[13:42:36] <systemd> ^ 03TRANSSYLVANIA PHOENIX LIVE AT SALA PALATULUI - 21.10.2005
[13:46:09] <c0lo> "In the shadow of the big bear" I expect the big bear was USSR
[13:46:27] <c0lo> Apropos "some sneaky references in there"
[13:46:43] <FatPhil> URSS?
[13:46:54] <FatPhil> I can't imagine how you made that bizarre connection!??!
[13:47:20] <c0lo> You want the Cyrillic orthography?
[13:47:55] <c0lo> Shit. USSR.
[13:48:24] <c0lo> https://translate.google.com
[13:48:26] <systemd> ^ 03Google Translate
[13:50:11] <c0lo> "Romanian rock band formed in 1962" under the communist regime. Rock was pretty frown upon in those times.
[13:51:20] <c0lo> Almost all rock in EEurope had elements of defiance in it.
[13:53:03] <FatPhil> Our Museum of Occupations (we wouldn't want the Germans to feel left out) had a great exhibition of Estonian musical rebellion
[13:53:04] <c0lo> https://en.wikipedia.org
[13:53:05] <systemd> ^ 03Russian Bear - Wikipedia
[13:53:46] <FatPhil> But Mishka's cute!
[13:54:15] <c0lo> Had some nasty claws at the time
[13:58:13] <FatPhil> They strictly licenced all bands here.
[13:58:41] <FatPhil> one hint of anti-USSR sentiment, and you didn't get played
[13:58:52] <c0lo> And made them sing jazz in Russian, eh?
[14:00:11] <c0lo> Thus the "sneaky" reference. Subtle enough to be plausibly denied.
[14:00:30] <c0lo> s/ference/ferences/
[14:00:30] <SedBot> <c0lo> Thus the "sneaky" references. Subtle enough to be plausibly denied.
[14:07:36] <c0lo> The sound quality is shitty but there something good shit in https://www.youtube.com
[14:07:38] <systemd> ^ 03SFINX - FULL ALBUM - ZALMOXE - 1978
[14:08:16] <c0lo> Okydoky. Have enough in the queue for tomorrow. Gotta get some sleep.
[14:24:50] <c0lo> https://pbs.twimg.com
[14:29:12] <c0lo> =submit 10.1038/s41586-021-03363-z https://www.dkfz.de
[14:29:19] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Vaccination Against Mutated Protein Tested in Brain Tumor Patients for the First Time" (2p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[14:29:46] <c0lo> =submit https://newatlas.com
[14:29:48] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Landmark Brain Cancer Vaccine Passes First Phase of Human Trials" (11p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[14:31:25] <FatPhil> I think what I need is a brain vaccine.
[14:36:29] <c0lo> I think I need brain replacement therapy. some bone marrow maybe
[14:36:53] <c0lo> =submit https://www.theguardian.com
[14:36:55] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Call Centre Staff to be Monitored Via Webcam for Home-working ‘Infractions’" (26p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[14:40:26] <c0lo> =submit https://thedebrief.org
[14:40:28] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03FBI Warns Imminent Deepfake Attacks "Almost Certain" - the Debrief" (29p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[14:41:42] <c0lo> =submit https://www.bbc.com
[14:41:45] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Renewables Met 97% of Scotland's Electricity Demand in 2020" (19p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[14:44:04] <c0lo> Parler just shot its feet of with a LOIC https://www.newsweek.com
[14:44:06] <systemd> ^ 03Parler users furious that site sent violent posts to FBI ahead of Capitol riot
[14:44:38] <AzumaHazuki> say it ain't so. people who throw "cuck" around like it's water ended up getting cucked?
[14:46:45] <FatPhil> the two sets will intersect, I have no doubt
[14:47:12] <AzumaHazuki> the "right" has become a parody of itself. they'd be entirely risible except that they get people fucking killed
[14:48:24] <FatPhil> And the left hasn't become a parody of itself?
[14:48:46] <FatPhil> I think the left's been a parody of itself for so long you've simply stopped paying attention to it.
[14:48:57] <FatPhil> they got there long before the right did.
[14:50:12] <c0lo> Are we discussing leftover parodies? Now? When I want to sleep?
[14:51:49] * TheMightyBuzzard loves him some pair-o-Ds
[14:53:19] <c0lo> Here, FatPhil, you call this a parody? https://www.cbsnews.com
[14:53:20] <systemd> ^ 03Bernie Sanders visits Alabama in boost to Amazon workers' union effort
[14:55:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> millionaire socialist politician with multiple homes pretending he's for the working man? eh, not really. more of an accurate stereotype.
[14:58:56] <c0lo> foff TMB.
[14:59:41] <AzumaHazuki> FatPhil, please...the "both sides" thing doesn't apply here. a minority of leftists are parodies. the entire goddamn right wing of the US has lost its collective shit
[14:59:45] <AzumaHazuki> there is a huge difference
[14:59:48] <c0lo> Demostrate that only dirt poor people are on th side of the workers.
[15:00:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> thas boff if you want a boolean
[15:00:30] <AzumaHazuki> they're in a dangerous cornered phase now. the GOP is specifically writing voter suppression into law to steal future elections, all the while claiming the election was stolen. Gaslight, Obstruct, Project.
[15:00:48] <c0lo> Engels - textile mills - communist manifesto.
[15:02:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, happy to. a real socialist would give any money they above $whatever_they_decide_folks_should_earn away to those who don't make that much
[15:03:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> so there are no real millionaire socialists
[15:03:12] <c0lo> AzumaHazuki - Brad Raffensperger
[15:03:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> otherwise it's "socialism for ye but not for me"
[15:03:50] <AzumaHazuki> the country can't survive under this. we've been given reprieve until the '22 midterms and then it's over. i hope like fuck i'm out by then
[15:04:49] <c0lo> TMB - fuck off and read the definition of socialism.
[15:05:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, you first. you're conflating bernie's communism-lite with worker-owned means of production
[15:06:07] <TheMightyBuzzard> bernie ain't a socialist of any stripe but if you want to call diet-communism socialism, i'll use that word as well.
[15:06:15] <AzumaHazuki> is carrion-breath here showing his ignorance again? i have him muted so i can't see
[15:06:22] <c0lo> Moving goal posts, TMB. Spare your back for those trimmings in the church
[15:06:31] <AzumaHazuki> oh, but be careful, you might get !quiet'd or even kickbanned for being ruuuuuuuuuuude
[15:06:41] <AzumaHazuki> because freeze peach
[15:06:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> goal posts? you went entirely off topic so there are no goal posts.
[15:07:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> AzumaHazuki, yes, you might. you've been warned about shitting up the place with personal attacks. that goes even for ones on me.
[15:07:53] <c0lo> "millionaire socialist politician with multiple homes pretending he's for the working man?" Any communist-lite mention there?
[15:08:04] <c0lo> No?
[15:08:19] <c0lo> Maybe someone moved them there in between.
[15:08:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, pay attention: <c0lo> TMB - fuck off and read the definition of socialism.
[15:08:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> which isn't relevant since bernie isn't an actual socialist
[15:09:12] <c0lo> TMB, "millionaire socialist politician" - your reference to Bernie.
[15:09:19] <c0lo> Your's not mine.
[15:09:29] * TheMightyBuzzard shurgs.
[15:09:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> sed it out with diet-communist if you prefer. he's the one calls himself a socialist.
[15:10:32] <c0lo> Well, at least you didn't thorn your shoulder muscles moving those posts. Glad you can still shrug.
[15:10:51] <c0lo> Now, go see those trimmings, will yea? :grin:
[15:11:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> no posts moved. he is a flaming hypocrite no matter what label he uses because he does not hold himself to what he proposes for others. that was the only goalpost.
[15:12:01] <AzumaHazuki> c0lo, bear in mind you're never going to change Uzzard here. He stopped using reason a long time ago
[15:12:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> .kickban AzumaHazuki
[15:12:11] -!- mode/#soylent [+b *!*@the.end.of.time] by Aphrodite
[15:12:11] -!- AzumaHazuki was kicked from #soylent by Aphrodite!Aphrodite@dodekatheon.olympus.gr [(TheMightyBuzzard) No reason given]
[15:13:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> FatPhil, Fnord666, Bytram, chromas: * Aphrodite sets modes [#soylent +b *!*@the.end.of.time * 48h this time
[15:15:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> FatPhil, Fnord666, Bytram, chromas: adding 24h to each subsequent ban for the same thing (not doubling except the 2nd time, just cause math) sound reasonable to you folks?
[15:17:30] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Baltimore Will No Longer Prosecute Drug Possession, Prostitution, and Other Low-Level Offenses - https://sylnt.us - don't-sweat-the-small-stuff
[15:18:04] <c0lo> Since he's not socialist, he is free to take whatever sides he want, isn't it?
[15:18:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> preaching wealth redistribution for folks making good union money but not for himself? sure. still makes him a hypocrite though.
[15:19:28] <c0lo> Does he said not for himself?
[15:19:46] <c0lo> Or is just you that said it?
[15:20:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> obviously. if he meant it for himself he would already be doing it. he's perfectly capable of redistributing his wealth without a government threat behind it.
[15:20:26] <c0lo> I don't remember Bernie saying he'll not pay his due taxes.
[15:21:34] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, do you need the government to tell you to do what you believe is right? i don't.
[15:21:39] <c0lo> Ah, so TMB dictates that lefties must redistribute themselves the wealth, otherwise they're not lefties.
[15:22:15] <TheMightyBuzzard> they're not lefties if they demand the government take liberty from the citizens, fiscial, social, or any other kind.
[15:22:44] <c0lo> Yeap, coordination is necessary to avoid the road to hell paved with good intentions.
[15:23:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> but if they demand something they're unwilling to do without a law forcing it, then they either don't really believe it or they plan on cheating it from the start.
[15:23:13] <c0lo> More TMB definitions. What if I don't accept them?
[15:24:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, the left is liberal, the right is conservative, i dunno wtf progressives are that can be said in polite company but they're neither of those.
[15:24:12] <c0lo> Who said law is forcing them?
[15:24:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> taxes are the law forcing you
[15:24:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> try not paying them and find out
[15:24:50] <c0lo> Laws are rules put in place to avoid chaos.
[15:25:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> they're also rules put in place to oppress those you don't like
[15:25:23] <c0lo> Do you see a manager as a tyrant or a coordinator?
[15:25:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> or rules put in place to enslave an entire race
[15:25:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> they're rules to *, they have no nobility
[15:26:18] <c0lo> Well, more TMB definitions - rules are oppression full stop.
[15:26:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> you can't read then
[15:26:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> i said laws are rules, any kind of rules, they have no inherent nobility
[15:26:59] <c0lo> Right, get all those rules aside, see where you end.
[15:27:22] <c0lo> What dos nobility have to do with anything?
[15:27:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, moving the posts. you said they were a good thing because N. i said N was not in fact the case.
[15:27:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> there is no requirement that a law be put in place to avoid chaos. or any good reason at all.
[15:28:24] <c0lo> TMB, I said that rules that govern the redistribution aren't necessary taking liberties away.
[15:28:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> the hell they're not. the liberty to keep what you earn is a pretty fucking fundamental one.
[15:29:31] <c0lo> Rrright, when you get your company up and running again, make sure you don't use or specify any rules.
[15:29:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> income redistribution is a bunch of people voting that they'd like your money because working for it is too hard.
[15:29:51] <c0lo> See how less chaos will lead you to.
[15:29:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> been up and running over a year
[15:30:35] <c0lo> TMB, your definition for income redistribution, I don't need to accept it.
[15:30:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> i'm the only employee at the moment though. don't want additional help or additional work at the moment.
[15:31:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, accept or reject as you like, it's not a definition, it's a statement of fact.
[15:31:18] <c0lo> And there aren't any rules in that company? Not even those that everyone agreed on?
[15:31:50] <c0lo> Ah, yes, TMB is the ruler of facts too.
[15:32:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> explain how it isn't a fact then.
[15:32:34] <TheMightyBuzzard> wherein is it untrue?
[15:32:40] * TheMightyBuzzard declares a rule that employees should never step out for a smoke. and promptly breaks it.
[15:34:10] * c0lo pisses on TMB's declared rule and goes for the last smoko before sleep
[15:36:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> is there any way in which a majority voting to take something from a minority and give to themselves is not a precise and accurate definition of income redistribution?
[15:37:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> is there any way in which it could possibly be for any reason other than because they don't want to put the work in to earn it?
[15:42:27] <c0lo> Is there ay way that those who don't contribute to the social group refrain themselves from using what the social group build together?
[15:43:39] <c0lo> mmmm... https://www.gardenexpress.com.au
[15:43:41] <systemd> ^ 03APPLE DWARF PIXIE CRUNCH - Garden Express
[15:44:00] <c0lo> Perfect before sleep to clean the smoko taste.
[15:44:16] <c0lo> Nighty night.
[16:18:31] -!- halibut has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
[17:09:37] <chromas> Tables aren't allowed in journal entries?
[17:16:24] <chromas> tabs in <ecode> are pretty wonky in firefox
[17:23:52] <FatPhil> TheMightyBuzzard: Nope, not alright, you're becoming quite the dictator.
[17:25:39] <chromas> Mmm, dick taters
[17:26:25] <chromas> Hm, she did only barely get into the namecalling. Didn't even have time to fart out a wall of ragetext
[17:30:13] <chromas> "The big constipation products hoax"
[17:30:25] <chromas> Shit, even spam is getting in on conspiracies
[17:46:06] <Runaway1956> =submit https://www.bleepingcomputer.com
[17:46:08] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Windows 95 Easter Egg Discovered After Being Hidden for 25 Years" (14p) -> https://soylentnews.org
[19:41:15] <bacteria> omg we got so drunk last nite
[19:52:41] -!- Leebert has quit [Quit: reboot]
[19:57:00] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - WWII Codebreaker Turing Honored on UK's New 50-Pound Note - https://sylnt.us
[20:45:07] <Runaway1956> The aliens are tired of anal probing us, now they want to wreck our motorcyclse!
[20:45:12] <Runaway1956> https://sputniknews.com
[20:45:14] <systemd> ^ 03'I Thought I Was Dying': Zimbabwe Man Claims Sudden Appearance of 'UFO' Made Him Crash Motorcycle
[20:45:57] <chromas> it's not so much that they're tired of probing us but we're doing it ourselves now
[20:48:04] -!- halibut [halibut!~halibut@izz-gnvf-5078.nortor.no] has joined #soylent
[21:30:16] <FatPhil> c0lo: holy jeebus, this Black Cat White Cat is some next level shit!
[21:37:19] <Bytram> =w black cat white cat
[21:37:20] <systemd> Black Cat, White Cat (Serbian: Црна мачка, бели мачор; Crna mačka, beli mačor) is a 1998 Serbian romantic black comedy film directed by Emir Kusturica - https://en.wikipedia.org
[21:37:33] <Bytram> =yt black cat white cat
[21:37:34] <systemd> https://youtube.com - Black cat White cat - Trailer (02:23; 446,592 views; 👍1,105 👎78)
[21:37:45] <Bytram> =yt black cat white cat -trailer
[21:37:45] <systemd> https://youtube.com - Black Cat White Cat - Bubamara (04; 169,311 views; 👍831 👎25)
[21:38:01] <Bytram> =yt black cat white cat -trailer -bubamaa
[21:38:01] <systemd> https://youtube.com - Black Cat White Cat - Bubamara (04; 169,313 views; 👍831 👎25)
[21:38:07] <Bytram> =yt black cat white cat -trailer -bubamara
[21:38:08] <systemd> https://youtube.com - Black Cat and White Cat Bengali Story - কালো এবং সাদা বিড়াল বেঙ্গলি গল্প 3D Kids Moral Stories (12:31; 2,760,225 views; 👍7,856 👎5,281)
[21:38:30] <Bytram> =yt "black cat white cat" -trailer -bubamara
[21:38:31] <systemd> https://youtube.com - 》 Black Cat White Cat 1998 full mσvíє ᕼᗪ ☜ (01:41:39; 249 views; 👍0 👎5)
[21:39:29] <Bytram> maybe some other time -- i've already got a dozen+ movies waiting for me to make time to watch 'em
[21:45:41] <Bytram> Looks like it's still stuck, the EVER GIVEN, that is. Looks like they are giving up for the night as I only see 3 tugs around it now (saw ~10 earlier today). Zoom into: https://www.vesselfinder.com
[21:45:43] <systemd> ^ 03EVER GIVEN Current position (Container Ship, IMO 9811000) - VesselFinder
[21:55:47] -!- Leebert [Leebert!~lsherida@jetppb.leebert.org] has joined #soylent
[21:58:36] <Bytram> https://www.youtube.com
[21:58:37] <systemd> ^ 03Exploding Whale 1970
[22:07:21] <FatPhil> are you proposing that as the solution to the beached boat?
[22:12:39] <FatPhil> could work. might need a few megatons...
[22:15:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> FatPhil, you pick a reasonable length for repeat infraction of the same bloody rule ban length increases then. and get off my nuts about the dictator bullshit when you agreed that the last ban, for the exact same shit, was not unwarranted
[22:15:48] <requerdanos> See, there's that dictator talk again
[22:16:30] * TheMightyBuzzard quirks an eyebrow at requerdanos
[22:16:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> that serious or whoosh?
[22:16:51] <chromas> Could've at least given her more time to get riled up and really earn that ban instead of just a couple "uzzards"
[22:16:56] <requerdanos> I am thinking whoosh.
[22:17:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> roger
[22:17:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> could've, yeah, but why?
[22:18:28] <chromas> Same reason you let the robber take your stuff before shooting :D
[22:18:43] <Runaway1956> Bytram - I've read three or four articles with vague hints that the wind didn't do the Ever Given in
[22:19:00] <Runaway1956> The vauge hints are getting somewhat clearer
[22:19:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh, i don't do that. i shoot em ahead of time with an airsoft gun cause you can shoot em as much as you like with a toy
[22:19:12] <Runaway1956> https://www.channelnewsasia.com
[22:19:14] <systemd> ^ 03Strong wind not main reason for Suez ship grounding: Canal chief
[22:19:23] * bacteria grabs virtual pop-corn
[22:19:46] <chromas> Anyhow, for her whinging, I'd think just a simple kick could've been enough
[22:19:54] <Runaway1956> pop-corn grabs some bacteria
[22:20:02] * chromas deallocates bacteria's popcorn bucket
[22:20:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> for something she'd been repeatedly warned and once banned for?
[22:20:51] * TheMightyBuzzard shurgs
[22:20:54] <bacteria> this would be a pretty lousy day and a year if not for amazing happenings like ever given
[22:21:24] <chromas> She didn't even have time to tell you to goto hell
[22:21:27] <chromas> or burn
[22:21:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> well she wouldn't anymore, would she
[22:21:46] <Runaway1956> Oh, I missed Her Royal Rudeness?
[22:22:39] * TheMightyBuzzard points Runaway1956 to the rope storage locker and offers him as much as he'd like
[22:22:52] <chromas> Yeah but ol' MightyBuzzkill here booted her before she could even get ramped up
[22:23:17] <Runaway1956> "rope storage locker" is called the "sail locker"
[22:23:30] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: Just noticed the activity. Was part of the reason I was inquiring earlier about available commands and proper invocation. I concur with adding 24hr per repeat infraction in this channel.
[22:23:34] <TheMightyBuzzard> not when it's hanging rope rather than ship rope
[22:23:49] <chromas> then it's called a tree
[22:24:09] <Runaway1956> Then it's not properly called "rope" - that's just "small stuff"
[22:24:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> danged squids and their squiddy ways
[22:25:29] <Runaway1956> I think I'll resemble that remark and see about having you cancered.
[22:25:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> naw, ima leo
[22:25:51] <Bytram> At least a couple earlier times I'd have done the same if I'd had been mastery of available tools. So, had I done so, accumulated time-out would have been longer.
[22:26:15] <Bytram> stomach growls; time to prepare eats
[22:26:22] <Bytram> biab
[22:26:59] <Runaway1956> fly season has begun
[22:27:09] <TheMightyBuzzard> i mean, we could go fibionacci just as well. i'm not particular, i just think repeated offenses should carry increasing penalties
[22:27:14] <Runaway1956> as well as trees ejaculating on the car season
[22:27:30] <TheMightyBuzzard> aka, crappie season
[22:27:51] <chromas> 🎵My tree cum brings all the bees to the yard🎵
[22:27:58] <Runaway1956> Take my car to the crapping hole and clean it off please.
[22:28:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> just drive it down the boat ramp and back up a couple times. rinses right off.
[22:33:02] <Runaway1956> The more you complain, the longer God lets you live.
[22:33:22] <Runaway1956> I guess that QOTD explains why women outlive men
[22:47:37] <c0lo> No, FatPhil, BCWC is the prev level. The world devolves.
[22:55:22] <c0lo> The fuck, really? https://www.mprnews.org
[22:55:23] <systemd> ^ 03MN Supreme Court reverses rape conviction because woman wasn't forced to get drunk
[23:00:46] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, that's the law. or we could go ahead and call anyone who got drunk or stoned mentally incapacitated and be unable to convict them of anything ever again.
[23:02:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> now if she'd been "passed out" instead of "blacked out", that'd be an entirely different matter hinging on consciousness and the complete inability to consent rather than choices you regret the next day.
[23:07:27] <Runaway1956> I saw taht article c0lo - and I'm not real sure what to think of it
[23:07:50] <Runaway1956> Was she actually "raped", or was it just a "rape" because she drank too much?
[23:08:01] <TheMightyBuzzard> see above re: passed vs blacked. one is unconscious, the other is "i don't remember this time span"
[23:08:05] <Runaway1956> I'd have to say that if she's unconscious, it's rape
[23:08:15] * TheMightyBuzzard nods
[23:09:01] * Runaway1956 thinks a little nap might be in order -
[23:09:10] <Runaway1956> no way I'll sleep long, kids in and out
[23:09:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> i mean, seriously, do folks in Oz not get drunk and do inadvisable shit they regret later? i thought you were at least in the top ten of that list. i know we sure as hell are.
[23:09:19] <c0lo> Mentally incapacitated is the term used.
[23:10:13] <c0lo> I reckon it doesn't matter how she became mentally incapacitated, if she ended in that state.
[23:10:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> then use your brain. let that ruling stand and you can never fuck your wife after a couple of drinks again; it'll be rape even if she's enthusiastically participating
[23:11:02] <c0lo> In Oz, that woould have been an as clear case of rape as it can come.
[23:11:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> ahh, yall on the MeToo bandwagon? her self-imposed mental capacity matters but his doesn't?
[23:12:04] <c0lo> TMB, spare me of slippery slope fallacies, it's sloppy
[23:12:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> it's not a slippery slope, it's a cliff as big as day
[23:12:54] <c0lo> Before the moment of rape, she was in no state to give consent.
[23:13:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> how do you know?
[23:13:13] <c0lo> TMB, whatevs, mate.
[23:13:15] <TheMightyBuzzard> blacked out is still functional
[23:13:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> passed out is not
[23:13:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> the former is just "drunk you don't remember", the latter is unconscious.
[23:15:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> but go right ahead and make rape contingent on a woman's feelings when she's sober the morning after if yall like. you won't like the consequences.
[23:18:37] <c0lo> Don't make sex with a drunken partner. Oh, wow, the world is gonna collapse because of that *shudders*.
[23:19:39] <FatPhil> c0lo: watched every damn minute of it - and I still don't know what I've seen. Is this the Slovenian version of /Dinner for One/ or something - is it compulsory to watch every year over the holidays?
[23:21:07] <FatPhil> Serbian, not Slovenian, sorry.
[23:21:17] <FatPhil> So it had nothing to do with Laibach after all!
[23:21:26] <FatPhil> I thought they played all the music!
[23:22:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, it sure as shit would. drunken sex is most sex for half the people in their teens and 20s.
[23:22:36] <FatPhil> Apparently we Estonians took a drink every time one of the characters took a drink: https://www.imdb.com
[23:22:37] <systemd> ^ 03Crna macka, beli macor - IMDb ( https://www.imdb.com )
[23:22:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> and applying it only to the women is fuckwadery of the highest order.
[23:24:30] <c0lo> To me it's what Tarantino could have done if he only got to be born in a gypsy community on the Danube river during the Yugoslavia civil war after the fall of communism.
[23:26:22] <c0lo> =w Goran Bregović
[23:26:23] <systemd> Goran Bregović (Serbian Cyrillic: Горан Бреговић; born 22 March 1950) is a recording artist from Bosnia and Herzegovina. He is one of the most internationally - https://en.wikipedia.orgć
[23:26:50] <c0lo> for more music from the same area
[23:28:44] <FatPhil> c0lo: I got the feeling it was probably an influence over Sacha Baron Cohen before creating Borat.
[23:30:13] * TheMightyBuzzard goes off to fix foods
[23:31:09] <c0lo> No, it's a different vein. You'll have to understand the mentality of the gypsys in EE to get it.
[23:32:29] <c0lo> The things that you may consider exaggerated in the movie are probably only a quarter exaggeration.
[23:34:51] <c0lo> Imagine a mind set that absolutely and intensively live in the present. There's no consideration what can happen beyond 1 or 2 week horizon
[23:38:31] <FatPhil> yeah, more a visual and thematic influence, not a story-telling influence.
[23:40:41] <c0lo> Eye opener in that mindset (at least that it was for me)
[23:40:52] <c0lo> =w Gadjo dilo
[23:40:53] <systemd> The Crazy Stranger (original title: Gadjo dilo – Romanes for &quot;Crazy Gadjo&quot;) is a 1997 French-Romanian film directed and written by Tony Gatlif. Most of - https://en.wikipedia.org
[23:50:05] <c0lo> Hmmm... I might look for more movies by https://en.wikipedia.org sounds interesting (at least a lot more interesting than Star Wars and Marvels)
[23:50:06] <systemd> ^ 03Tony Gatlif - Wikipedia
[23:51:56] <FatPhil> i only watch marvels for the same reason i drink cheap balkan lagers - for the tick.
[23:52:59] <FatPhil> I know they're 2/10 shit. But fuck it, if I've got a 5 hour coach ride to Riga, I'm getting 2 of them Marvels down me. Hopefully I can sleep to reduce the mental pain.
[23:53:57] <Bytram> quick Google question?
[23:54:21] <Bytram> How do I query what links to a particular URL?
[23:54:30] <Bytram> Example:
[23:55:30] <Bytram> I found a story online, but it's too short for me to use here ( https://hackaday.com )
[23:55:31] <systemd> ^ 03Move Over Cesium Clock, Optical Clocks Are Taking Over
[23:55:59] <Bytram> It references this journal article: https://www.nature.com
[23:56:00] <systemd> ^ 03Atomic clocks compared with astounding accuracy
[23:56:33] <Bytram> I'd like to find out what other stories link to that journal article...
[23:56:52] <Bytram> ideally, in a way that I could use it here with our bots.
[23:57:44] <Bytram> I'm thinking something like:
[23:57:46] <Bytram> =g linksto:https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00738-0
[23:57:47] <systemd> https://www.nature.com - Atomic clocks compared with astounding accuracy
[23:58:21] <Bytram> Solutions? Suggestions?
[23:59:42] <c0lo> https://webmasters.stackexchange.com
[23:59:43] <systemd> ^ 03Find pages that link to another URL? ( https://webmasters.stackexchange.com )
[23:59:59] <c0lo> No can do with Google anymoar.