#soylent | Logs for 2020-11-13

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[00:07:06] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Some Hospitals are Running Out of Health Care Workers. Here's What Could Happen Next - https://sylnt.us - overwhelmed
[00:12:06] <AzumaHazuki> maaaan i hope that doesn't happen at my place...it's not one of the big ones :/
[00:52:08] <c0lo> AzumaHazuki where about is your place? https://rt.live will let you estimate how long before the capacity is overflowed.
[00:52:09] <systemd> ^ 03Rt COVID-19
[00:58:53] <Teckla> COVID-19 has spiraled out of control here in Minnesota.
[01:10:57] <Runaway1956> It seems that my earlier problems with the site have disappeared. Everything looks normal again - maybe it was on my end.
[01:15:02] <c0lo> Teckla, you can thank Trump's administration for the due care it applies. And remember, you are going round the corner and you're just tired of so much winning (large grin)
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[01:33:40] <AzumaHazuki> at this point he's a mass murderer by lack of action. anyone still supporting him is complicit too
[01:36:20] <c0lo> Zumi, it is what it is. If you get on the front line and the place where you are doesn't mandate masks, it would be wise to call in sick. Unless they provide you with a mask guaranteed to stop the virus (I doubt it, it would need a mic and speakers).
[01:37:52] <c0lo> https://apnews.com
[01:37:53] <systemd> ^ 03Idaho's coronavirus surge overwhelms primary care clinics
[01:38:30] <c0lo> "Meanwhile, he said, nine Primary Health care providers and 38 staffers are out because they are sick or in quarantine. Six clinics have had to close at various times in recent weeks because of low staffing."
[01:47:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> bout damned time.
[01:47:54] <Bytram> =yt Lost in Space theme
[01:47:55] <systemd> https://youtube.com - Lost in Space Opening and Closing Themes 1965 - 1968 HD (05:49; 300,952 views; 👍4,224 👎122)
[02:03:23] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: I'm struggling to understand your comment: "bout danged time." That healthcare providers and staffers are out? That Clinics have had to close?
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[02:06:47] <TheMightyBuzzard> no more infinite curve
[02:07:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> flat's one thing, eternal isn't.
[02:08:00] <Bytram> still talking fuzzy... please try again.
[02:09:40] <TheMightyBuzzard> bell curves have ends. flattening it and thus lengthening it out a bit for practical reasons is understandable. once its length becomes infinite though it is no longer a curve it is a line.
[02:10:27] <Bytram> that is much clearer, thanks.
[02:12:28] <AzumaHazuki> new york state seems to be doing the right thing, at least
[02:12:31] <AzumaHazuki> this is a common theme, i find
[02:12:43] <AzumaHazuki> the midwest and the south are fucked. this is also a common theme
[02:13:22] <AzumaHazuki> anyway, i should sleep...something tells me a whole lot of remdesivir orders will be coming in tomorrow
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[02:16:00] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Expected Climate Change-Induced Flood Exposure for the US - https://sylnt.us - I-wanna-know-have-you-ever-seen-the-rain?
[02:21:05] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: So, umm, how does lack of staffing and closing help with COVID-19? More people die? Is that good? More people develop long-term pathologies? More people with non-COVID problems (e.g. car accident, heart attack, ruptured spleen, appendicitis, etc.) cannot be treated (or receive delayed care) because hospitals are full and the staff are exhausted?
[02:22:39] <Bytram> think of trying to code a fix to the site -- while it is running -- and you are dead dog tired 'cause you've already been at it for 11 hours. Yes, staff are being asked to work 12 hour days.
[02:27:05] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, means we're not trying to make it a line anymore. infinite lower-grade misery is not preferable to higher-grade misery over a short, finite time span.
[02:28:05] <TheMightyBuzzard> s'why you rip bandaids off instead of stretching it out over several minutes.
[02:31:48] <Bytram> how do you *know* it is finite? re-infections have already been documented. It could well be that you get it, get 6-9 months immunity, and come down with it again. And again. Like a flu: Influenza there are many strains and it constantly mutates, hence the need for an annual\ vaccine.
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[02:42:08] <halibut> I disagree that it is inevitable that every living person will eventually have had COVID-19, but I am willing to assume it is for this argument. Having everybody get it at once is bad, as that results in way more deaths due to overloading of systems. You (TMB) seem to be arguing that it is better not to stretch it out too long due to strains associated with lockdowns, so there should be a happy medium
[02:42:14] <halibut> in there. Shouldn't that happy medium be slightly under the point where medical systems are overwhelmed? Isn't overwhelmed medical systems an indication that some places are letting the infection spread too quickly?
[02:43:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> halibut, no, it results in less deaths because all the possible carriers are no longer able to carry it and infect anyone. poof goes the virus due to lack of viable hosts.
[02:43:39] <Bytram> bingo. and, with an *exponential* function, by the time you notice things are getting tight... you're in WAY over your head.
[02:44:06] <Bytram> they are no longer able to carry it.. cause they are dead
[02:44:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> gone, no more coronaids, ever. the way we're doing it, immunity is long gone in initial patients before even half of the population has caught it.
[02:45:04] <Bytram> so how WOULD you make it go away?
[02:45:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> do nothing at all. take the hit we would have without the panic and be done with it forever.
[02:45:34] <Bytram> what do you know that the best epidemilogical minds have not been able to make happen?
[02:45:48] <Bytram> So, let 'em die.
[02:45:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> yup
[02:46:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> better than 10x, 100x, or 1000x dying over a longer period because everyone was too scared to let immunity happen.
[02:46:58] <halibut> It would be very difficult to have a 100x death rate given that the death rate appears to be about 1 in 40.
[02:47:12] <Bytram> I have watched my mom gasp for breath in the ICU and CCU. How about you? Wanna watch your family die? Go ahead and tell me just let 'em die.
[02:47:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> wrong math, halibut
[02:47:45] <Bytram> Oh, and after two whole fucking weeks, she died.
[02:47:47] <TheMightyBuzzard> 1 in 40 is for catching it once
[02:48:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, i have watched family die. and that's why i don't want to be doing it all the time for the rest of my life.
[02:48:23] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: So, you good with just watching your family members wracking up medical bills and dying anyway?
[02:49:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> halibut, let immunity run out and you're going to catch it more than once. which ain't good if the lasting effects are a real thing.
[02:49:18] <Bytram> difference, hospital was avail. doc was avail. right? How about not being able to get in to be seen?
[02:49:49] <halibut> If 1 out of 40 die, the only possible way for 100x that many to die is for this to be an issue across multiple generations. I think I am misunderstanding your argument.
[02:50:01] <TheMightyBuzzard> halibut, reinfection
[02:50:46] <halibut> If 1 out of 40 die the first time, and then there are reinfections over and over until eventually everyone dies, that is 40x as much death, not 100x.
[02:50:47] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, irrelevant. i do not want to have to watch people catch this multiple times and risk death every time because everyone was scared.
[02:50:58] <Bytram> difference between just being old or having a major heart attack and being unable to recuperate vs.. sorry, we're just gonna let YOU die. too bad, so sad.
[02:51:56] <Bytram> We had to destroy the country to save it.
[02:52:10] <Bytram> s/destroy/kill/
[02:52:10] <SedBot> <Bytram> We had to kill the country to save it.
[02:52:40] <Bytram> cf polio, 'spanish' flu, TB
[02:52:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, if you're asking if i'd let a family member die at home with no treatment to keep from having to eventually watch every last family member die to a disease that we could have been shed of long ago? yes. yes, i would.
[02:53:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> it'd hurt but not as much as losing a lot more people.
[02:54:14] <Bytram> do you know how they eradicate smallpox?
[02:55:31] <Bytram> we could have done the same things with covid, but they only did it half-assed (and that is extremely generous)
[02:55:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> what, vaccination?
[02:57:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> we don't have a viable vaccine yet and we have no idea the durability of the immunity length the upcoming ones are going to confer. neither do the folks making them.
[02:58:14] <Bytram> quarantine, isolate, contact tracing. if there are no new hosts around the currently-infected, it cannot spread. when the counts were in the hundreds or even thousands nationwide, it was entirely possible and feasible and FAR FAR less disruptime/expensive than what we got. No thanks to trump's do-nothing 'poof! it will just go away'
[02:59:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> when 40% never know they have it, that ain't viable.
[03:00:38] <Bytram> by Febrary it was apparent to me that if something was not done soon (abnd this was backed by increasingly numerous and vocal researchers) we would be in trouble, vast majority of people do not grok exponential growth,
[03:00:44] <Bytram> yes, t is.
[03:00:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, it's not. not unless you go around testing everyone hourly.
[03:01:00] <Bytram> find previous contacts
[03:01:05] <Bytram> contact them
[03:01:10] <Bytram> quarantine
[03:01:18] <Bytram> test for antibodies
[03:01:31] <Bytram> after two+ weeks, more tests.
[03:01:43] <Bytram> only when not shedding virus are they released
[03:01:51] <Bytram> sucks to be them, but they are still alie
[03:01:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> and when they've gone shopping and walked past a hundred random people who walked past who knows who during that day? no, that's not a viable idea even with computers and insane privacy invasion.
[03:02:36] <Bytram> so, now you are sawng it is as contagious as Measles?
[03:02:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> far moreso
[03:03:32] <Bytram> it is not that virulent. measels can persist in the air for several HOURS after someone has left a room. covid is nowhere near as bad as that!
[03:04:16] <Bytram> soccrection, the air in a room is contagrous for hours after someome has left a room
[03:04:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> it is when you can be walking around for a couple weeks with no symptoms
[03:04:30] <TheMightyBuzzard> infecting everyone you spend time with
[03:05:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> people don't get to walk around for weeks giving everyone the measles without knowing it
[03:05:41] <Bytram> and what do you do? where have you been? who have you met? contact tracing. and heir contacts, too. quarantine. pay 'em for being out of work would still be far cheaper than this toruned out to be
[03:06:05] <TheMightyBuzzard> trace whose contacts? you don't know you have it.
[03:06:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> and 40% of the people you infect won't either
[03:06:36] <halibut> Aren't there countries that have done a pretty good job with contact tracing and isolation? For example, South Korea and New Zealand?
[03:06:52] <Bytram> If you have it, and are transmitting it, then someone else is getting it. right? or are you supposing now, that everybody is symtomless?
[03:07:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, new zealand just shut itself off from the world and hid until it went away. that's viable on a small island. not in the big wide world.
[03:07:23] <Bytram> halibut++ Australia is pulling out of it, too. ladst I heard
[03:07:23] <Bender> karma - halibut: 7
[03:08:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> until they get a typhoid mary, then it's back to the races. there can not be an end with a disease you can not detect half the time.
[03:10:05] <TheMightyBuzzard> and, frankly, no amount of deaths is worth letting the government track everyone's every movement in perpetuity.
[03:10:07] <Bytram> so, better to keep the borders open and let it run its way across all the world, killing millions of people? See, again, Spanish Flu, Polio, Smallpox. It *is* doable, if you *want* to. too many want to have the cure w/o the cost.
[03:10:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> yes
[03:10:18] <Bytram> and jut do it again.
[03:10:50] <Bytram> you write code. it works. I test it. it don't work. you give up.
[03:11:18] <Bytram> no, you fix the bug, I test it, and I report it is still broken
[03:11:22] <Bytram> then you give up.
[03:11:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> code has nothing to do with this and none of those examples is even slightly viable as an analogy.
[03:11:30] <Bytram> no, wait, you try again.
[03:12:09] <Bytram> it is am examle of the fatalistic thikng on display.
[03:12:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> i'm not being fatalistic. i'm being realistic. more people will die if you panic and try to stop it than if you do nothing.
[03:13:22] <Bytram> asserting facts not in evidence; citation needed.
[03:13:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> been over this
[03:14:01] <TheMightyBuzzard> spent the whole first half of the conversation on it. you just don't want to believe it. you want to hope everything is going to be all right. it's not.
[03:14:10] <Bytram> my arms are getting sore and tired, I need to stop. I am alreayd full up on acetaminophen
[03:14:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> enjoy some tv and relax
[03:14:57] <Bytram> and you keep asserting people are all going to have to die,with no proodf that after all those people aredead that any immunity will result to carry forward.
[03:15:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> we have results on immunity. it lasts months not years but it does exist.
[03:16:56] <Bytram> I hpe, for you, your family, and for my sake that it lasts at least that long, and that by reducing the spread of the virus, it helps reduce the number of mutations. eachof which has the potntial to be even more virulent than what e got now.
[03:17:33] <Bytram> uigh my typing HAS gone to crap. reall gotta stop. laters!
[03:17:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> nite
[03:18:01] <Bytram> tx 4 the discussion
[03:18:05] <TheMightyBuzzard> yar
[03:18:12] <Bytram> =g TheMightyBuzzard
[03:18:12] <systemd> https://www.instagram.com - Byron Vincent (@themightybuzzard) • Instagram photos and videos
[03:18:20] <Bytram> =gnight TheMightyBuzzard
[03:18:20] * systemd cautiously deletes an NTFS volume of goathead thorns from TheMightyBuzzard
[03:18:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh, matt got back to me. headaches. will update tomorrow.
[03:18:44] <Bytram> so, we'll be good, then
[03:19:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> byron?! i'd have kicked my own ass every day at school if i were walking around with a name like byron.
[03:19:25] <Bytram> lol
[03:19:29] <Bytram> laters
[03:20:09] * TheMightyBuzzard grumbles about nick-stealing hipster losers
[03:20:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> book then sleep
[03:25:40] <halibut> If there is a future in which there is a reasonably effective vaccine, and/or some treatment that greatly reduces the death rate and/or hospitalization rate, I would argue that ripping the bandage off is not the way to go.
[03:26:23] <halibut> Exponential decay is a real thing, too. If something can reduce the transmission rate, and even a reasonably (but far from perfect) vaccine can do that, then infection rates will plummet (assuming the vaccine is reasonably distributed).
[03:31:06] <halibut> If there is a decent chance of that (and I think there is), then it seems better to aim for that rather than try to infect everybody nearly simultaneously just to end the pandemic. The argument about the world being big works both way. There is no way that the entire population will get infected and recover in a short enough time scale to prevent there being some pocket or hidden reservoir from
[03:31:12] <halibut> starting another wave.
[03:32:01] <halibut> The 1918 pandemic had similar such waves.
[03:33:05] <TheMightyBuzzard> halibut, there is already a treatment that greatly reduces mortality and symptom severity. not being vitamin d deficient. i have no idea why they refuse to make this public knowledge.
[03:33:37] <halibut> I cannot cite evidence of how the future is going to be, but I think the chances of an effective-enough vaccine are great enough to try slowing things down, or at least try to keep the medical system from being strained.
[03:33:50] <halibut> I have not heard that about vitamin D. Is there something I could read about that?
[03:34:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> sure, google it directly and also check the effects of latitude and melanin levels.
[03:35:02] <halibut> Currently looking at: https://www.endocrine.org
[03:35:03] <systemd> ^ 03Study finds over 80 percent of COVID-19 patients have vitamin D deficiency
[03:35:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> it also burns through your vitamin c stores but that's an effect not a cause. still, can't be pleasant to have coronaids and scurvy at the same time.
[03:36:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> a lot of diseases burn through your vitamin c stores. they just don't tend to last as long or do it as thoroughly.
[03:39:19] <halibut> This summary ( https://health.clevelandclinic.org ) suggests that a correlation has been found, but it is preliminary, and it might be misleading. They do not explicitly state it, but I suppose they mean that it could be a result of common factor (people who spend more time in offices or factories are both more likely to have a vitamin D deficiency and catch COVID-19).
[03:39:20] <systemd> ^ 03Can Vitamin D Prevent COVID-19? - Health Essentials from Cleveland Clinic
[03:39:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> prevent is the wrong word
[03:39:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> it doesn't
[03:39:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> it greatly lessens mortality and severity
[03:40:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> doesn't cure or prevent anything
[03:40:30] <TheMightyBuzzard> https://www.bmj.com
[03:40:31] <systemd> ^ 03Vitamin D Mitigates COVID-19, Say 40+ Patient Studies (listed below) – Yet BAME, Elderly, Care-homers, and Obese are still ‘D’ deficient, thus at greater COVID-19 risk - WHY?
[03:40:52] <TheMightyBuzzard> anyway, book n bed for me.
[03:41:15] <halibut> Yes, I see that. That was just an example to indicate what I meant by ``common factor'', and, I see now, a flawed one.
[03:42:15] <TheMightyBuzzard> black folks also have a much harder time of it. ditto indians with dark skin (feather and dot), hispanics, yadda yadda yadda
[03:42:23] <TheMightyBuzzard> plenty of documentation on that
[03:43:41] <TheMightyBuzzard> smokers seem to get off pretty light. at first i thought that might be a chemical thing in the lungs but now i figure it's because we all have to go stand outside to smoke.
[03:44:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> sunlight = more D
[03:44:12] <halibut> I did see that mentioned in https://www.mayoclinic.org but they also point out that obesity tends to be linked with both vitamin D deficiencies and COVID-19 mortality, which would be a common cause type of correlation rather than cause and effect correlation.
[03:44:13] <systemd> ^ 03Can vitamin D protect against the coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)?
[03:44:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> obesity tends to happen more in folks who don't get out and do stuff too, so, shurg
[03:45:53] <TheMightyBuzzard> speaking of, i haven't been on my skateboard in several days. i should fix that tomorrow.
[03:48:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> kinda ironic that quarantining in your house puts you at a much higher likelihood of death than going to the beach.
[03:49:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> halibut, anyway, if you find enough stuff to warrant a story, sub it if you would. the eds haven't published any of my covid subs for some reason or other.
[03:50:53] <TheMightyBuzzard> ima hit the sack now though
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[04:16:26] <coysow1234> =cite https://doi.org
[04:16:28] <systemd> <p><b>Journal Reference</b>:<br/>S. J. Pyne. <b>From Pleistocene to Pyrocene: Fire Replaces Ice</b> [open], <cite>Earth's Future</cite> (DOI: <a href="https://doi.org/10.1029/2020EF001722">10.1029/2020EF001722</a>)</p>
[04:16:38] <halibut> The BMJ article was a little hard to read, and appeared to provide mostly references. Reference 75 seemed to be the most likely to be more informative. It had a bunch of references itself, but claimed reference 34 found a clear relationship between vitamin D deficiency and COVID-19 total fatalities. Still looking at that reference (
[04:16:43] <halibut> https://www.cambridge.org )
[04:16:46] <systemd> ^ 03‘Scientific Strabismus’ or two related pandemics: coronavirus disease and vitamin D deficiency
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[04:25:55] <c0lo> https://apnews.com
[04:25:57] <systemd> ^ 03Trump, stewing over election loss, silent as virus surges
[04:26:12] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - High-Severity Cisco Dos Flaw Can Immobilize ASR Routers - https://sylnt.us - another-day-another-exploit
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[05:06:21] <halibut> The paper appears to discuss various ways vitamin D helps with respiratory diseases, and speculates that it could help with COVID-19. It also discusses how vitamin D deficiency is associated with a lot of known health risks.
[05:06:42] <halibut> However, as far as actually correlating COVID-19 severity and vitamin D deficiency, the only evidence it presented that I could find was that it claims both are more prevalent in mid-latitudes. The map that is presented does seem to suggest that COVID-19 is more prevalent at mid-latitudes, but that might be a reflection of where the people are, and not any particular latitude-dependent COVID-19
[05:06:48] <halibut> proclivity. Possibly the issue described in this XKCD: https://xkcd.com
[05:06:49] <systemd> ^ 03Heatmap
[05:07:00] <halibut> The paper specifically calls out the following countries for having high rates of severe vitamin D deficiency, giving those rates: Saudi Arabia (46%), Qatar (33%), Chile (26%), France (27%), Portugal (21%), and Austria (19%). It also lists some with nearly zero rates of sever vitamin D deficiencies: Norway, Finland, Sweden, Denmark, and Netherlands.
[05:07:20] <halibut> Checking the COVID-19 mortality rates for those countries using https://www.worldometers.info (deaths divided by (deaths + recovered)), it appears the COVID-19 mortality rates are Saudi Arabia (2%), Qatar (10%), Chile (3%), France (24%), Portugal (3%), Austria (1%), Norway (2%), Finland (3%), Sweden (>3%, using total cases as number recovered was not available), Denmark (2%), and Netherlands
[05:07:23] <systemd> ^ 03Coronavirus Update (Live): 53,091,981 Cases and 1,299,407 Deaths from COVID-19 Virus Pandemic - Worldometer
[05:07:26] <halibut> (>2%, same issue as for Sweden).
[05:09:12] <halibut> Conclusions: Even countries with very low rates of vitamin D deficiency have appreciable mortality rates from COVID-19. High vitamin D deficiency rates might make it worse (France and Qatar, but not Saudi Arabia, Chile, Portugal, or Austria). This paper only suggests an incidental correlation (latitude dependence), but does not directly correlate vitamin D deficiency with COVID-19 mortality rates.
[05:09:18] <halibut> High vitamin D deficiency rates do not necessarily translate to higher COVID-19 mortality rates.
[05:09:51] <halibut> While this paper (and several others I skimmed) suggest that vitamin D is healthy (insert quick warning that overdosing can be a problem, too), and being healthy reduces COVID-19 mortality, it does not appear to be a solution in itself (countries with almost no vitamin D deficiency still have a mortality rate over 1%).
[05:10:06] <halibut> A quick spot check of one other paper: Reference 75 of the BMJ paper also states, ``Laird et al., plotted COVID-19 mortality/million against mean 25(OH)D levels for twelve European countries, finding a significant correlation (p = 0.046) (27).'' That reference 27 is available as a PDF:
[05:10:11] <halibut> https://www.infosperber.ch
[05:10:26] <halibut> I am not familiar with the statistical test used, but the fact that the two countries with the lowest (Scotland) and highest (Sweden) mean vitamin D levels have almost identical COVID-19 mortality rates (as shown in the paper) suggest that the low p-value indicates there is likely some correlation, but not necessarily a strong correlation. Furthermore, they use deaths/population for their COVID-19
[05:10:32] <halibut> mortality rate, not deaths/infections, so that data is also going to change as the infections spread.
[05:11:05] <halibut> Summary: Way too many papers to dive into depth for all of them. Picking a few to look at suggests that vitamin D deficiency is unhealthy and makes respiratory diseases worse. Vitamin D supplements /may/ help with COVID-19 (don't overdose), but the papers investigated provided only weak evidence to that effect, and even the best case scenario the mortality rate is probably over 1%.
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[05:39:34] <c0lo> halibut, let TMB indulge in his idiotic fantasies. The best srategy, even at the level of a society, is to keep infection in check and try to eradicate the virus by any mean available at the moment. Even if that means contact tracking. South Korea is doing it since Feb, without lockdown.
[05:41:32] <c0lo> One recent FA https://news.sky.com
[05:41:34] <systemd> ^ 03Coronavirus: How South Korea's track and trace system has kept death count below 500
[05:42:38] <c0lo> A system like this may have kept your mother alive.
[05:53:59] <pinchy> its time to do a jet fuel dance to bring in our fav flammable liquid powered chatter
[06:14:11] <c0lo> Nah, jet fuel is conservative, polutes and stinks. I think I'll use hydrogen, the progressive fuel (grin)
[06:36:01] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Researchers Light-Up Mouse Brain, Revealing Previously Hidden Areas Susceptible to Opioids - https://sylnt.us - light-em-up
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[08:30:40] aristarchus is now known as SoyGuest52750
[08:46:47] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - FBI: Hackers Stole Source Code From US Government Agencies and Private Companies - https://sylnt.us - change-your-defaults!
[08:56:57] SoyGuest52750 is now known as arisarchus_
[08:57:23] arisarchus_ is now known as aristarchus_
[08:59:04] <aristarchus_> I . . . Am . . . . . aristarchus!
[09:25:00] <FatPhil> Nurse, the screens!
[09:32:22] <aristarchus_> Now, now, Phil! Time for your enema! Was that the High colonic, or the low? And did you want lemon flavor, or mint, this time?
[09:32:39] <aristarchus_> =sumbit https://www.usatoday.com
[09:46:53] <aristarchus_> Coaches: do not let them run for office.
[09:46:54] <aristarchus_> “It’s concerning to me that a guy can run for president of the United States and have an opportunity to win when he leans more to a socialist type of government, you know, one-payer system in health care, raise taxes 20 percent, when the other half the country is basically voting for freedom, let us control our own lives, stay out of our life,” said Tuberville, a former college football coach. “You know, as I tell people, my dad fought 76 year
[09:47:54] <aristarchus_> https://twitter.com
[09:47:56] <systemd> ^ 03Twitter ( https://mobile.twitter.com )
[09:52:41] <FatPhil> whisky flavour, or nothing, that's the way I roll.
[09:59:10] <aristarchus_> Okeedookee! Filling the bags as we speak!
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[10:56:33] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Russia Says Sputnik V Covid-19 Vaccine is 92 Percent Effective - https://sylnt.us - good-news
[12:13:20] <c0lo> Oh, wow. Let's make Trump our God emperor and secede https://twitter.com
[12:13:22] <systemd> ^ 03Twitter ( https://mobile.twitter.com )
[12:17:59] <FatPhil> So my concept of Trumpistan might become a reality? Gets my vote, and the votes of half a dozen of my dead relatives, because I'm a corrupt fraudster and do such things.
[12:25:06] <c0lo> Let them believe they had the idea themselves. Otherwise they'll do the opposite, just to spite the european commies.
[12:32:02] <c0lo> Yeap, 2020 shooks a lot of shit into the light https://twitter.com
[12:32:04] <systemd> ^ 03Twitter ( https://mobile.twitter.com )
[12:58:50] <c0lo> Now file another one in the (moral) bankruptcy court https://twitter.com
[12:58:51] <systemd> ^ 03Twitter ( https://mobile.twitter.com )
[13:05:27] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - High-Severity Cisco DoS Flaw Can Immobilize ASR Routers - https://sylnt.us - another-day-another-exploit || FBI: Hackers Stole Source Code from US Government Agencies and Private Companies - https://sylnt.us - change-your-defaults! || The Age of Fire - https://sylnt.us - Let-me-stand-next-to-your-fire
[13:05:56] <c0lo> https://www.reuters.com
[13:05:57] <systemd> ^ 03Exclusive: Top official on U.S. election cybersecurity tells associates he expects to be fired
[13:07:20] <FatPhil> RATM's was the best album of the decade, IMHO, and the best song off that album is definitely /Trolling In The Name Of/.
[13:19:42] <FatPhil> I did troll Mathias Eklund and basically the whole of Freak Kitchen with that lyric at a gig once. But you'd need to know /Forgive Me I Am Swedish/ off their album /Junk Tooth/ in order to understand the humour. (which alas I can't find online_
[13:28:47] <FatPhil> n.p. https://www.youtube.com
[13:28:49] <systemd> ^ 03Freak Kitchen - The new Part
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[15:17:20] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Millions of Hotel Guests Worldwide Caught Up in Mass Data Leak - https://sylnt.us - but-but-but-cloud!
[17:17:02] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Apple Claims that its M1 SoC for ARM-Based Macs Uses the World's Fastest CPU Core - https://sylnt.us - big-mac
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[17:55:43] <Teckla> =submit https://sneak.berlin
[17:55:45] <systemd> Submitting "Your Computer Isn't Yours"...
[17:56:06] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Your Computer Isn't Yours" (26 paragraphs) -> https://soylentnews.org
[18:03:06] <Ingar> scary, at least I can laugh at my mac using coworkers now
[18:04:02] <Ingar> and inform legal we might have to sue apple for industrial espionage
[18:39:49] <Runaway1956> Apple phanbois think that's good, probably - they bought into the walled garden after all
[18:40:13] <Runaway1956> I'm sure Windows has comparable tracking and worse
[18:40:32] <Runaway1956> Windows has always tracked every page you loaded in Internet Explorer after all
[18:40:46] <Cascade> We knew that going in. Apple was supposed to be the Chosen One™.
[18:43:57] <Runaway1956> Thing about Windows people - they didn't know it going in, for the most part - they didn't knowingly buy the walled garder
[18:44:10] <Runaway1956> but they'll just accept it when they hear about it
[18:44:37] <Runaway1956> Those of us in Linux Land seem to be a very small minority
[19:14:32] <janrinok> possibly - but there is nothing to be gained by being smug....
[19:25:53] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - TikTok Lives to See Another Day in US - https://sylnt.us - broken-clocks?
[19:27:25] <Runaway1956> not smug janrinok - sad actually
[19:27:34] <Runaway1956> we are such a small minority
[19:31:42] <janrinok> I wasn't saying you were smug - but I have nothing to add to the earlier comments because I, too, am a linux user. Perhaps others think the say way?
[20:04:00] <janrinok> same*
[21:02:30] -!- halibut [halibut!~halibut@2001:468:d01:mr:tvu:rpjp:hkzp:mwzz] has joined #soylent
[21:17:23] <c0lo> =submit No recount in PA https://www.media.pa.gov
[21:17:25] <systemd> Submitting "State Details"...
[21:17:47] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03State Details" (12 paragraphs) -> https://soylentnews.org
[21:18:02] <c0lo> "Secretary Boockvar has determined that she will not be ordering a recount and recanvass of the election returns in the counties, as no statewide candidate was defeated by one-half of one percent or less of the votes cast"
[21:35:28] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Genetic Eraser: Newly Developed Technology Precisely and Rapidly Degrades Targeted Proteins - https://sylnt.us
[21:48:09] <Bytram> =g "Reconstruction of 3D Flight Trajectories from Ad-Hoc Camera Networks"
[21:48:10] <systemd> https://arxiv.org - Reconstruction of 3D flight trajectories from ad-hoc camera networks
[21:48:23] <Bytram> =g "Reconstruction of 3D Flight Trajectories from Ad-Hoc Camera Networks" -archiv.org
[21:48:24] <systemd> https://arxiv.org - Reconstruction of 3D flight trajectories from ad-hoc camera networks
[21:48:35] <Bytram> =g "Reconstruction of 3D Flight Trajectories from Ad-Hoc Camera Networks" -arxiv.org
[21:48:36] <systemd> http://scholar.google.com - ‪Čeněk Albl‬ - ‪Google Scholar‬
[21:48:50] <Bytram> =g "Reconstruction of 3D Flight Trajectories from Ad-Hoc Camera Networks" -arxiv.org -scholar.google.com
[21:48:50] <systemd> https://www.researchgate.net - Reconstruction of 3D flight trajectories from ad-hoc camera networks ...
[21:49:54] <Bytram> =g "Reconstruction of 3D Flight Trajectories from Ad-Hoc Camera Networks" -arxiv.org -scholar.google.com -researchgate.net
[21:49:54] <systemd> https://paperswithcode.com - Reconstruction of 3D flight trajectories from ad-hoc camera networks ...
[21:54:35] <c0lo> =submit https://www.abc.net.au
[21:54:38] <systemd> Submitting "Australia offers Indonesia $1.5 billion loan as the country falls into first recession in 22 years - ABC News"...
[21:55:00] <systemd> ✓* Sub-ccess! "08Australia Offers Indonesia $1.5 Billion Loan as the Country Falls Into First Recession in 22 Years -" (43 paragraphs) -> https://soylentnews.org
[22:05:23] <c0lo> =submit https://thenewdaily.com.au
[22:05:26] <systemd> Submitting "Why everyone should care about Google's Fitbit takeover bid"...
[22:05:32] -!- arti|work has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…]
[22:05:48] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Why Everyone Should Care About Google's Fitbit Takeover Bid" (4 paragraphs) -> https://soylentnews.org
[22:06:02] <Bytram> c0lo++ thanks for the story submissions!
[22:06:02] <Bender> karma - c0lo: 5
[22:08:51] <Bytram> =g Ubisoft in Montreal police
[22:08:52] <systemd> https://www.nbcnews.com - Police action reported at Montreal gaming company Ubisoft
[22:14:25] <c0lo> =submit https://www.gizmodo.com.au
[22:14:26] <systemd> Submitting "Climate Scientists Debunk 'Point of No Return' Paper Everyone's Freaking Out About"...
[22:14:48] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Climate Scientists Debunk 'Point of No Return' Paper Everyone's Freaking Out About" (5 paragraphs) -> https://soylentnews.org
[22:19:15] <c0lo> Who wants one? https://imgix.gizmodo.com.au
[22:20:30] <c0lo> Maybe for the weekend? https://www.gizmodo.com.au
[22:20:32] <systemd> ^ 03Here's the Most Cursed Shit We Found on Amazon
[22:20:49] <Bytram> c0lo: what is it? /me has bandwidth cap to be aware of
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[22:23:47] <c0lo> Bytram: *what* what is it? The "Who wants one?"
[22:24:04] <Bytram> yep
[22:28:27] <c0lo> It's a 105kB image of a grow-yourself chia shoots planter, under the form of a Trump's bust, with the shoots growing out in place of his scalp.
[22:28:54] <Bytram> ;p;, tyvm!
[22:29:01] <Bytram> lol, tyvm!
[22:29:15] <c0lo> Makes a wierd orange trump growing afro green hair.
[22:29:47] <AzumaHazuki> can we put this to rest now? https://twitter.com
[22:29:48] <systemd> ^ 03Twitter ( https://mobile.twitter.com )
[22:29:50] <c0lo> Picked from the "Weirdest-product-amazon" link.
[22:31:10] <c0lo> I was willing to put it to rest a week ago. Trump's antics aren't under my controll tho
[22:31:40] <AzumaHazuki> yeah, i know. and his deluded supporters will die on this hill >< this is so ugly and sad
[22:33:06] <c0lo> You mean will get infected on the Capitol Hill tomorrow? Or is it the WH? https://www.theguardian.com
[22:33:08] <systemd> ^ 03'It's not over yet, right?' Trump voters back president's refusal to concede
[22:35:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> i very much doubt it. it ain't like he can't afford the legal bills.
[22:36:14] <AzumaHazuki> yeah, he's not hundreds of millions in debt or anything :v
[22:37:30] <TheMightyBuzzard> rich folks finances ain't like normal folks finances. circumstances is quite a lot different.
[22:38:53] <c0lo> Sad when even your lawyer abadon your cause https://www.vanityfair.com
[22:38:54] <systemd> ^ 03Sad: Law Firms Abandoning Trump's Efforts to Undermine Democracy
[22:39:05] <TheMightyBuzzard> you and i don't go through life with insanely high debts, rich folks do as a matter of course.
[22:39:24] <c0lo> https://www.sbs.com.au
[22:39:25] <systemd> ^ 03Law firm stops representing Donald Trump in Pennsylvania vote challenge
[22:39:27] <Bytram> what about people who *claim* they are rich, have undergone numerous bankruptcies, and keep their promises like they will release their taxes right after the election... in 2016?
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[22:41:16] <c0lo> What about them? https://www.politico.com
[22:41:16] <systemd> ^ 03Trump’s case against Omarosa exposes another problem: Unpaid legal bills
[22:41:17] <Bytram> He talks the talk, and makes it look good from the surface, but just how solid are things under the surface? From here, it looks more than a little... squishy
[22:41:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> bankruptcies also don't mean the same thing to rich folks
[22:41:40] <Bytram> I got mine, fuck you?
[22:41:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> s'like comparing balancing your checkbook to balancing the national debt.
[22:41:45] <AzumaHazuki> times like this i wish irc clients supported SomethingAwful emoticons
[22:42:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> the same rules are not in play, because the scope is that much different.
[22:43:12] <Bytram> so long as the first derivative is positive, yeah, keep borrowing and investing... but if the 2nd derivative is negative... it will all come tumbling down.
[22:43:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> like nobody would give you a signature loan for more than your yearly salary to live on and almost pay back with your checks so that you can show a loss for the year on income taxes
[22:43:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> but that's extremely common among rich folks.
[22:44:13] <Bytram> and you're cool with that?
[22:44:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> why should i care?
[22:44:22] <c0lo> https://www.news.com.au
[22:44:25] <systemd> ^ 03Tax fraud claims, sex scandals and a ‘hush fund’: Trump’s murky future
[22:44:37] <AzumaHazuki> Bytram: remember who you're talking to there :/
[22:44:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> it gets paid back, so it wouldn't bother me even if i were a banker
[22:45:16] <Bytram> I get to pay taxes on [almost] all my income (standard deduction) - but rich folk don't have to? Paid back? You mean the taxes?
[22:45:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> and if you passed a law to get rid of it, they'd just take compensation in a way that didn't trigger income taxes in the first place instead of a salary.
[22:46:04] <Bytram> I was around well before 'trickle down economics' was a thing...
[22:46:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> nope, i don't have a problem with it. their salaries are trivial in the scope of their finances.
[22:46:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> most of their income is capital gains
[22:46:30] <Bytram> so they will/might find a loophole, so give up?
[22:46:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, i just don't care if 1% of their income gets overlooked.
[22:47:15] <Cascade> What's a loophole?
[22:47:18] <Bytram> So why is capital gains income so different from earned income? I work for my money, they wait for theirs?
[22:47:20] <Cascade> Is that like a hole in your hole?
[22:47:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, beats me, ask congress
[22:47:41] <Bytram> where did the 1% number come from?
[22:48:01] <TheMightyBuzzard> i'm just telling you what the law is and how they do their best to avoid taxes just like the rest of us do.
[22:48:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, my rectum. it's probably a lot less for most of them.
[22:49:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> frankly, if i had assets enough that a bank would write me a signature loan for more than my yearly wages, i'd do the exact same thing.
[22:49:49] <Bytram> 'cause most people do not have sufficient assets for the capitals gain tax to be on their radar... so, I'll take pay as stocks, cash 'em in later, and pay lower taxes on it. Great if you are rich, not an option if you're not. So, write the loophole that allows the rich to avoid paying taxes on income.
[22:50:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> you're confusing my approving of how they play within the rules with me approving of the rules.
[22:51:04] <Bytram> so, if the rich paid taxes on all their income -- their fair share -- the rest of us plebes would pay less taxes and a greater chance of putting money away to work for us. Wouldn't you like to have that?
[22:51:20] <Bytram> so, I am well aware of the rules they play.
[22:51:28] * AzumaHazuki watches how this plays out, takes notes
[22:51:49] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: Do you approve of the loopholes which only the rich can take advantage of?
[22:51:57] <Bytram> =notes
[22:51:57] <systemd> ♩ (&#9833;) ♪ (&#9834;) ♫ (&#9835;) ♬ (&#9836;) 🎜 (&#127900;) 🎝 (&#127901;) 🎵 (&#127925;) 🎶 (&#127926;)
[22:52:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> of the loopholes, no. of them taking advantage, yes.
[22:52:41] <TheMightyBuzzard> i'd prefer a flat percentage tax. you can even pick a "these bitches is too poor to pay taxes" line and not tax folks below it if you like.
[22:53:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> playing by the rules is never unethical. writing them that way is.
[22:53:18] <Bytram> yes, none other than a supreme court justice said something to the effect that there is nothing wrong with taking advantage of tax laws as they are written.
[22:53:37] <Bytram> (Brandeis maybe?)
[22:53:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> ima john jay fan myself
[22:55:00] <AzumaHazuki> why do you approve of them taking advantage of the loopholes? note that this means they are acting directly counter to the society that sustains and enables them
[22:55:01] <Bytram> But, those with wealth who through, say, campaign contributions, can get laws passed that disproportionally benefit themselves, which allows them to contribute more campaign $$, which... which leaves us out in thecold.
[22:55:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> AzumaHazuki, because they're the rules. you want fair rules, demand it of your politicians. i'm certainly not going to pay anything i don't legally have to.
[22:56:14] <Bytram> I absolutely DO NOT like it, but upon what other basis can things be decided? I *feels* yo are not paying enough taxes so you gotta pay more? Nope, we are a county of laws.
[22:56:14] <AzumaHazuki> that last sentence sums it all up doesn't it :/
[22:56:39] <FatPhil> n.p. https://www.youtube.com
[22:56:41] <systemd> ^ 03Lenny Kravitz - Fields Of Joy
[22:57:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> yes, it says i'm just like every other american. no matter how progressive they are, NOBODY writes extra in on the line that's there for it on their tax forms.
[22:57:28] <FatPhil> next playing: https://www.youtube.com
[22:57:29] <systemd> ^ 03Freak Kitchen - The new Part
[22:57:54] <FatPhil> you need to get some good music into your systems, you terrible human beings.
[22:58:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, they've got money but they're vastly outnumbered. which matters when it comes voting time.
[22:58:48] <Bytram> back in the mid 90's, when it looked like social security was going to go bankrupt, I was willing to pay the extra tax because I knew it was important to protect the old and infirm -- and I was contracting back then on a 1099, so I got to pay *double* social security and medicare taxes.
[22:58:56] <AzumaHazuki> do you see the fallacy there? "The rich ones aren't like us, things are different for them!" "But they're just like us, no one wants to pay more!"
[22:59:01] <Cascade> The solution is to vote in less stupid people into the populace.
[22:59:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> AzumaHazuki, context. learn its use.
[22:59:26] <AzumaHazuki> yeah, that WAS the context
[22:59:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, you're apples and oranges-ing it
[23:00:05] <AzumaHazuki> for one thing, "no one wants to pay more" is trivially true. the difference is, us normal people don't have massive capital gains
[23:00:14] <c0lo> Let's hope Biden start closing some loops and make those who function differently than normal folks contribute more than now to the society that makes their success possible.
[23:00:15] <Cascade> Apples and oranges are both ovaries with tasty juice inside.
[23:00:23] <AzumaHazuki> far more of our income goes toward things with much less elastic demand curves
[23:00:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, never happen. he gets his campaign contributions from folks who can afford it same as the reps do.
[23:00:57] <Bytram> they have money -- which thanks to Citizens United -- can be spent copiously to way public opinion in their favor. See also the tax huge trump tax cuts that sunsetted after 10(?) years but were permanent for rich and for corporations.
[23:00:59] <Cascade> c0lo++ #rofl!
[23:00:59] <Bender> karma - c0lo: 6
[23:01:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> AzumaHazuki, i don't disagree but you're talking a problem with politicians not with taxpayers.
[23:01:46] <Bytram> c0lo++
[23:01:46] <Bender> karma - c0lo: 7
[23:01:53] <AzumaHazuki> okay, but here's the problem: when wealth inequality reaches the point where the uber-wealthy can buy laws, the system has failed
[23:02:09] <TheMightyBuzzard> s'always best to find the root of the problem and deal with it there. hating the rich solves jack and shit.
[23:02:20] <AzumaHazuki> and as much as you want to say "well the politicians passed those laws," they wouldn't have done that without an incentive to, i.e., the corrupt pieces of shit being corrupt
[23:02:36] <c0lo> Cascade, IDK seeing politicians starting to keep their promisses would be refreshing.
[23:02:42] <Bytram> the problem IS the rich, who CAN afford to buy laws.
[23:02:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> i agree. stop electing corrupt pieces of shit.
[23:03:02] <AzumaHazuki> but this isn't about elections. not really. money sways people from the path of law
[23:03:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, would you take half a million dollars to kick a baby?
[23:03:08] <Bytram> no\
[23:03:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> neither would i. they would though.
[23:03:16] <Bytram> would you?
[23:03:52] <TheMightyBuzzard> a large part of it is we keep electing lawyers for some insane reason
[23:03:57] <Bytram> and... your point? they are different? so are you and I. So what?
[23:04:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, my point is don't elect corrupt shitheads. even if they tell you what you want to hear.
[23:04:31] <Cascade> Would you like to deduct $450 from your taxes for your home office?
[23:04:42] <Bytram> well, we tried electing sawyers, but things just got cut to shreds
[23:04:57] <AzumaHazuki> they don't all start corrupt you know. and you're acting like they have no free will, and/or would do these things without the wealthy shitheels bribing them to
[23:05:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> i'd like to have a home office. i have a tv tray, an end table, and a chair at the moment.
[23:05:05] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: so, would you classify Trump as a corrupt shithead?
[23:05:46] <c0lo> "don't elect corrupt shitheads", then start by rolling back the "my dollars are as good as your speech" laws. The Citizens United would be a promising start.
[23:05:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> from what i know of him, given a boolean choice, yep. given an int choice, i'd say he's less corrupt than most of DC by at least half.
[23:06:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, dollars buy platforms for the rich and poor alike. limit that you limit both camps.
[23:06:47] <TheMightyBuzzard> and solve nothing
[23:07:16] <c0lo> You limit corruption.
[23:07:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> keep in mind here that every limit you put on rich guys you also put on the teamsters.
[23:07:33] <Bytram> So, for example, Trump claimed he was going to 'drain the swamp' -- are things more or less corrupt, now?
[23:07:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, you just limit speech
[23:08:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, pretty much the same. possibly very slightly less but i'd need proof to believe that.
[23:08:04] <Cascade> Bytram: They're the same; we're just paying more attention.
[23:08:04] <c0lo> Yes, it would be limitting "paid for" speech.
[23:08:13] <c0lo> Is that a bad thing?
[23:08:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, which all tv spots are.
[23:08:37] <AzumaHazuki> "the law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to beg their bread."
[23:08:40] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: the law prohibits both the poor and the rich from sleeping under bridges.
[23:08:48] <AzumaHazuki> this is why lawful/chaotic is not the same as good/evil
[23:08:52] * AzumaHazuki is Neutral Good, BTW
[23:08:57] <Cascade> lol
[23:08:58] <Bytram> AzumaHazuki++ that was what I was trying to remember
[23:08:58] <Bender> karma - azumahazuki: 42
[23:09:00] <c0lo> Create a fund from which all the TV spots are paid for.
[23:09:16] * TheMightyBuzzard is a multiclass paladin/wizard
[23:09:19] <Bytram> and all OTHER advertisements.
[23:09:24] <Cascade> Who pays into the fund?
[23:09:31] <c0lo> Taxes.
[23:09:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, not only rich folks pay for ads.
[23:09:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, funds are limited as well.
[23:10:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh, you mean let the government decide which speech gets a platform and which doesn't? yeah, no.
[23:11:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> as soon as you start a fund you necessitate that
[23:11:15] <c0lo> Mostly rich corrupt folks pay for ads. What's so suprising that the corruption gets almost exclusive visibility?
[23:11:30] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, you are on the drugs.
[23:11:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> not even slightly the case here in the US
[23:12:01] <c0lo> TMB, funds as anything else, will also be limited. What's your point?
[23:12:19] <Bytram> So,why not let a multi billionaire give $10 to every single taxpayer? Just outright *buy* the vote?
[23:12:21] <c0lo> TMB, no I'm not on any drugs.
[23:12:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> c0lo, my point is i don't want the government deciding what speech should be allowed into the argument.
[23:12:54] <AzumaHazuki> so why is it okay to let people who have even less interest in the common good do it?
[23:13:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, has nothing to do with anything
[23:13:08] <c0lo> Administration of a fund doesn't automatically mean government.
[23:13:23] <TheMightyBuzzard> unless you're saying people are too stupid to think for themselves, so some elite group should do it for them
[23:13:24] <AzumaHazuki> and, as i've pointed out before, when you get private entities rich enough to outright buy laws, that am gubbamint
[23:13:24] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: assertion without facts in evidence
[23:14:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> me, i like letting the people decide what they want to believe. even if it's bloody stupid.
[23:14:29] <AzumaHazuki> dodging the issue...
[23:14:33] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: trump made sure the stimulous checks hasd *his* signature on them so people would think he gave the money to them.
[23:14:58] <c0lo> Running a military under civilian/democratic control can be made safe. Why can't running a fund for political speech too?
[23:15:07] <Bytram> that was about $1500.00 per voter, of other people's money.
[23:15:07] <Cascade> My Trump Buxx came with a hemberder
[23:15:17] <AzumaHazuki> Cascade: no covfefe?
[23:15:25] <Cascade> Sold out :'(
[23:15:35] * AzumaHazuki is more of a tea person anyway, lol
[23:15:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, and? you think anyone was actually that stupid?
[23:15:50] <Bytram> other people's money being mostly money borrowed from future taxpayers
[23:15:53] <Bytram> yes
[23:16:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> then you're never gonna be in my camp on the issue.
[23:17:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> i'm going to assume people have a functional brain and can use it. if they can't, there's no point in having a democracy of any kind and we should go with a dictator.
[23:17:02] <Cascade> If people were dumb enough to believe Smollet then they could be dum enough to believe the signature thing.
[23:17:05] <Bytram> guilt by association is a thing, it works the other way, too. See: advertising with a beautiful woman presenting a car, vacuum cleaner, toothpaste.
[23:18:03] <Cascade> Hm, toothpaste wrestling. Great idea!
[23:18:12] <c0lo> Functional brain? Evidence to the contrary number 1: https://i.kym-cdn.com
[23:18:16] TheMightyBuzzard is now known as MintyFresh
[23:19:01] <c0lo> Evidence number 2: https://twitter.com
[23:19:02] <systemd> ^ 03Twitter ( https://mobile.twitter.com )
[23:19:31] <Cascade> You didn't need any specific URL for that. A simple link to Twitter would have sufficed.
[23:19:32] <MintyFresh> evidence number 3: me having to have this conversation with people born in the US.
[23:19:48] <c0lo> MintyFresh++
[23:19:48] <Bender> karma - mintyfresh: 1
[23:19:56] <MintyFresh> Cascade++ #and that's no shit
[23:19:56] <Bender> karma - cascade: 2
[23:20:44] <MintyFresh> oh, that's where i remember that name from. christopher moore books.
[23:21:19] MintyFresh is now known as TheMightyBuzzard
[23:21:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> aight, i gotta fire up the grill and make burgers happen. see yall laters.
[23:21:53] <Bytram> *functional* brain? Yes. Educated? Based on what I've seen that came from 'no child left behind', I would vigorously disagree. Logical argument? Logical fallacies? Able to play chess an look more than 1 ply ahead? I have serious doubts.
[23:22:05] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: enjoy
[23:22:49] <Cascade> Meatus Reheatus
[23:23:21] <Bytram> Cascade++ easy for you to say... keep your fingers away from the fire!
[23:23:21] <Bender> karma - cascade: 3
[23:23:46] <Bytram> =yt young frankenstein more soup?
[23:23:47] <systemd> https://youtube.com - WebM Test II - Blind Priest Scene (04:43; 575,356 views; 👍2,531 👎86)
[23:24:03] <Cascade> I move that we all storm TheMightyBuzzard's BBQ.
[23:24:16] <c0lo> Is takyon away or somtin? https://www.theguardian.com
[23:24:18] <systemd> ^ 03Nasa poised to return to crewed spaceflight with SpaceX capsule launch
[23:24:34] <c0lo> =submit https://www.theguardian.com
[23:24:36] <systemd> Submitting "Nasa poised to return to crewed spaceflight with SpaceX capsule launch"...( 1 modified urls; http://www.theguardian.com )
[23:24:39] <Bytram> Well, don;t storm it until it is all well and cooked. Don't want to get it wet!!
[23:24:58] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Nasa Poised to Return to Crewed Spaceflight With SpaceX Capsule Launch" (0 paragraphs) -> https://soylentnews.org
[23:25:00] <Bytram> this time for real. laters!
[23:31:32] <Cascade> The channel suddently fell cold and silent, leaving only the harsh buzz of a dying fluorescent light in the far corner.
[23:31:49] <Cascade> (it was a silent buzz)
[23:45:15] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Crime Ring Stole Thousands Of Facebook Passwords, Accidentally Exposed Them Online - https://sylnt.us - "accidentally"