#soylent | Logs for 2020-10-02
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[00:10:07] <Your_Mommas_Bull> What the fuck? What the fuck is this?
[00:10:07] <Your_Mommas_Bull> https://cdn3.movieweb.com
[00:10:36] <Your_Mommas_Bull> Why the hell was Worf turned into an illiterate beast? Racists are at work here.
[00:11:23] <requerdanos> (still wrong channel)
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[00:25:16] <nutherguy> That boy is - uhhh - what's the word I want here? - uhhhmmmm - "incorrigible" touches on it, but barely
[00:28:46] <requerdanos> this looks like a job for... someone with ops.
[00:29:24] <nutherguy> Oh, goody, my name has come up for a customer survey worht $90 - but how the hell did they get my name?
[00:29:40] <nutherguy> I ain't clicking no links!
[00:30:40] <requerdanos> maybe they are simply calling everyone by the preferred nickname "sucker"
[00:31:22] <nutherguy> Most probably, but I don't even open emails unless I recognize them, and I don't display images, nothing
[00:31:31] <nutherguy> click the "send to spam" and I'm done
[00:32:46] <nutherguy> Well, I took my Australian Shepard ducks for a walk and changed their water.
[00:33:04] <nutherguy> Most people looking at them would think they were dogs, but I know they are ducks.
[00:42:16] <requerdanos> most apply the looks, walks, quacks test.
[00:46:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> https://live.staticflickr.com
[00:48:40] <requerdanos> but of course there's always that one guy
[01:17:12] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - First Compelling Evidence of Organisms That Eat Viruses as a Food Source - https://sylnt.us - fried-eggs-and-bacteriophage
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[03:15:26] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Mosquitoes Bounce When They Land - https://sylnt.us - if-Weebles-wobble,-what-do-mosquitoes-do?
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[05:26:20] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Sourcegraph: Devs are Managing 100x More Code Now Than they did in 2010 - https://sylnt.us - import⠀*;
[05:36:28] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - President Trump and First Lady Melania Trump Test Positive for COVID-19 - https://sylnt.us - very-busy-contact-tracers
[05:41:23] <chromas> My tire went flat on the way home on my bike
[05:41:30] <chromas> Where's EF to blame it on the jews?
[05:44:58] -!- c0lo [c0lo!~9f99d30a@159.153.yqr.yr] has joined #soylent
[05:45:53] <c0lo> =submit breaking (bad, I hope) https://www.abc.net.au
[05:45:55] <systemd> Submitting "US President Donald Trump says he and Melania Trump have tested positive for COVID-19 - ABC News"...
[05:46:18] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03US President Donald Trump Says He and Melania Trump Have Tested Positive for COVID-19 - ABC News" (33 paragraphs) -> https://soylentnews.org
[05:47:25] <c0lo> =submit https://www.cnbc.com
[05:47:28] <systemd> Submitting "Dow futures plunge more than 500 points after Trump says he tested positive for coronavirus"...
[05:47:50] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Dow Futures Plunge More Than 500 Points After Trump Says He Tested Positive for Coronavirus" (3 paragraphs) -> https://soylentnews.org
[05:49:47] <c0lo> =submit https://apnews.com
[05:49:48] <systemd> Submitting "President Trump and first lady test positive for COVID-19"...
[05:50:10] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03President Trump and First Lady Test Positive for COVID-19" (30 paragraphs) -> https://soylentnews.org
[05:52:52] <chromas> https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net
[05:56:42] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - President Trump and First Lady Melania Trump Test Positive for COVID-19 [Updated] - https://sylnt.us - very-busy-contact-tracers
[06:02:50] <chromas> Tonight on Soylebrity Gossips
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[06:46:03] <Bytram> chromas: Time for Trump to schedule campaign rallies?
[06:47:09] <chromas> Sure. Just call it a mostly peaceful protest and it'll be fine ;)
[06:48:31] <Bytram> And don't forget your towel^H^H^H^H^H mask
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[06:50:17] <chromass> kvirc > hexchat. change my mind
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[06:57:26] <chromass> ircops get Yoda icons in kvirc
[06:57:49] <FatPhil> well that's me convinced
[06:58:29] * chromass DCCs a beer in FatPhil's general direction
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[07:00:00] -!- mode/#soylent [+v chromas] by Aphrodite
[07:05:44] <janrinok> Fnord666, will do, probably over the weekend
[07:06:37] <Bytram> janrinok: !!
[07:06:46] <janrinok> Bytram, !!
[07:07:09] <janrinok> nurse is just giving S her shower so I have 2 minutes or so on here!
[07:07:24] <Bytram> (Yes, this is an ungodly hour) but just in time tosee that trump has tested positive for COVID-19
[07:07:43] <Bytram> so, there is an "interesting" discussion starting
[07:07:55] <janrinok> the UK news is covered with it!
[07:08:18] <Bytram> I bet it is!
[07:08:37] <Bytram> https://soylentnews.org
[07:08:38] <systemd> ^ 03SoylentNews Comments | President Trump and First Lady Melania Trump Test Positive for COVID-19 [Updated] ( https://soylentnews.org )
[07:08:47] <janrinok> some people don't seem to understand the meaning of breaking news, nor how important the President is - regardless of how much of a hero/idiot he is seen to be
[07:08:57] <Bytram> ^^^ see my comment
[07:09:02] <janrinok> I did
[07:09:05] <Bytram> k
[07:09:48] <janrinok> but there are some very funny memes and jokes appearing elsewhere on this very topic
[07:10:18] <Bytram> though i wish him no ill-will, I really DO hope he comes down with a bad case so the word finally gets out this is "for reals"
[07:10:57] <Bytram> you reap what you sow
[07:11:05] <janrinok> including a quote from someone who forecast this would happen back in September, and quotes/images from the Simpsons showing Trump in a coffin.
[07:11:16] <Bytram> lol!
[07:11:32] <janrinok> gtg - have a good one!
[07:11:45] <Bytram> Lemme guess... a gold coffin?
[07:11:49] <Bytram> laters
[07:12:06] * Bytram should head back to bed soon
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[07:36:03] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - "Joker" -- The Android Malware that Signs You Up for Pricey Services - https://sylnt.us - where's-batman-when-you-need-him
[07:46:19] <Bytram> =g CNN trump covid-19 pelosi quarantine
[07:46:20] <systemd> https://www.cnn.com - Pelosi on Trump's coronavirus response: 'As the President fiddles ...
[07:46:34] <Bytram> =g CNN trump covid-19 pelosi quarantine October
[07:46:34] <systemd> https://www.cnn.com - October 1 coronavirus news
[07:47:00] <Bytram> =g CNN trump positive covid-19 Nancy pelosi quarantine October
[07:47:01] <systemd> https://www.cnn.com - October 1 coronavirus news
[07:57:39] <Bytram> =g CNN "Jonathan Reiner" "Nancy Pelosi" isolation
[07:57:39] <systemd> https://twitter.com - Aaron Rupar on Twitter: "Dr. Jonathan Reiner says on CNN that ...
[08:32:46] * FatPhil neeeedz links to meeeemz! (direct to the image preferably, as most websites hate me)
[09:08:14] <Bytram> =g meeeemz!
[09:08:15] <systemd> https://www.flickr.com - MiMi MeeeeMz | Flickr
[09:08:36] <Bytram> FatPhil: ^^^ ask and ye shall receive! ;)
[09:09:06] * Bytram wanders back to his bed after getting up WAY too early today.
[09:22:44] <FatPhil> see images, but no lulz
[09:35:51] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Salute the Venerable Ensign Wasp, Killing Cockroaches for 25 Million Years - https://sylnt.us
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[10:50:30] <c0lo> =submit https://forensicnews.net
[10:50:31] <systemd> Submitting "Just a moment..."...
[10:50:53] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Just a Moment..." (1 paragraphs) -> https://soylentnews.org
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[11:29:46] * TheMightyBuzzard yawns
[11:29:46] * MrPlow flips a Skittle into TheMightyBuzzard's gaping mouth
[11:29:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> coffee++
[11:29:48] <Bender> karma - coffee: 5359
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[11:37:09] <AzumaHazuki> https://twitter.com Whoopsie!
[11:37:12] <systemd> ^ 03Twitter ( https://mobile.twitter.com )
[11:43:38] <AzumaHazuki> i hope this doesn't kill him. not until he answers for all his crimes anyway
[11:46:33] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Second Alignment Plane of Solar System Discovered - https://sylnt.us
[11:56:15] <FatPhil> I hope it doesn't kill him, as the lefties will be intollerable if it does.
[11:57:26] <AzumaHazuki> ...that's why? you don't want this shitclown dead because your feelings will be mildly inconvenienced?
[11:57:55] <AzumaHazuki> also? we don't have leftists in the US. "leftist" is a snarl-word label that gets posted onto anyone who thinks Canada and the Nordic nations do capitalism better than we do
[12:00:48] <carny> if trump dies you'll see pogroms nation wide within 24 hours
[12:01:25] <FatPhil> AzumaHazuki: how would I benefit from his death?
[12:02:01] <AzumaHazuki> who knows? too many timelines flapping in the breeze right now. i can't get an accurate read
[12:02:12] * AzumaHazuki tosses carny a spare sock for him to disasturbate into
[12:04:52] <FatPhil> And you do have lefties in the US, to say otherwise is utterly absurd. What else do you think is infesting your university system like mind-eating amoebae?
[12:05:25] <carny> they're not marxists fatphil they're 'progressives' ;]
[12:05:36] <carny> there's a difference doncha know
[12:07:00] <carny> progressives have a flashy paint job and brand new body panels over the old marxist frame and engine
[12:07:05] <FatPhil> They're "marxists" only insofar as they've read the nice little soundbites that make Marx sound like Jesus.
[12:07:22] <lld> Landmarks: A Collection of Essays on the Russian Intelligentsia.pdf
[12:07:34] <lld> feels like modern day america
[12:08:11] <carny> but they follow the elites who have been using marxist strategy for the last hundred years
[12:08:41] <carny> or if you want to be pedantic and say that their techniques keep evolving just call them neo-marxist
[12:09:52] <carny> the manifesto is a hundred years older than rules for radicals but you can trace the evolution from one to the other
[12:12:28] <FatPhil> And out the far side all the way to Sun Tsu
[12:12:28] <lld> speaking of leftists, tbh, I can't find a capitalist that is more ruthless than communists themselves
[12:13:09] <carny> interesting idea but i suspect there are some material contradictions between 13 chapters and marx's original doctrine
[12:13:11] <lld> they will force workers to work themselves to the bone to sell their goods for cold hard cash
[12:13:32] <lld> as seen in the Spanish revolution
[12:13:43] <lld> it forced Orwell to stop and look at himself
[12:13:59] <carny> sun tsu in practice means equal application of all laws to promote a culture of justice
[12:14:20] <lld> the anarchists are so hungry with power yet are afraid of being called "a state"
[12:14:39] <lld> they will reinvent all kinds of terms to prevent that
[12:14:47] <lld> yet de facto a state
[12:15:01] <lld> eg forcing everyone into a co-op and preventing any trade with outsiders
[12:15:10] <carny> marx in practice is lying and hypocrisy to justify grinding down your detractors until you can put them in gulags (or just kill them)
[12:15:58] <lld> I'm convinced leftists ideology is 100% made for war
[12:16:07] <lld> that I can agree
[12:16:17] <carny> FatPhil: have you read any specific references to sun tsu in marx?
[12:16:58] <AzumaHazuki> christ, done with that sock already? I thought men had a refractory period 9_9
[12:17:10] <FatPhil> I was thinking more of the similarities to rules for radicals. Why only trace it back 100 years when you can go back millennia?
[12:17:41] <carny> well because i don't think rules for radicals takes much direction from sun tsu ;]
[12:17:44] <AzumaHazuki> frothing fucking hysteria from you two...and FatPhil I expected better from you. Wake me when we have an actual Marxist party, then I'll start getting concerned
[12:18:16] <lld> they just call themselves liberals
[12:18:31] <lld> so totally not-marxists
[12:18:35] <AzumaHazuki> history's pretty well defeated them, the Marxists. nordic-style capitalism works, and will work even better once we're on pure renewable power
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[12:18:53] <AzumaHazuki> if that's "Marxism" to someone, they don't know what words mean and don't want to know
[12:19:16] <lld> just like we don't have white supremacists around, I don't see the american nazi party around anymore
[12:19:20] <FatPhil> Most of the people who are aligning themselves with the idea of Marxism are ignorant of the writings of Marx, and the context within which it was written.
[12:19:33] <lld> totally the same thing amirite
[12:19:58] <AzumaHazuki> I've seen Marx's writings and disagree with large chunks of it. specifically the ones where he proposes to offer solutions
[12:20:14] <AzumaHazuki> Marx is a natural born critic. this means he's good at pointing out problems but Athena help you if you ask him for solutions
[12:20:33] <FatPhil> Without understanding the historical context there's no way of evaluating it properly. Like the Quran or the bible.
[12:21:16] <lld> one doesn't need an excuse to complain, same with marx
[12:21:36] <lld> anyone can complain
[12:21:42] <lld> anyone can point out the problem
[12:21:42] <FatPhil> AzumaHazuki: I agree. I think Marx and Freud both suffer from the same delusion. Gatherers of huge amounts of data, writers at great length on such things, and yet mostly producers of complete garbage.
[12:22:27] <carny> FatPhil: right but they also think that there are 62 genders and that we all have to become vegans because cow farts are killing the planet
[12:22:28] <AzumaHazuki> i do know any solution that attempts to ignore human nature is doomed to failure. we're apes in trousers/skirts. IMO politicians should have to study primatology
[12:22:46] <AzumaHazuki> ... what's that smell? burning straw? it's kind of early for that
[12:23:04] <carny> mass political movements have never been about large groups of educated and well informed people
[12:23:16] <AzumaHazuki> ch'yeah, just look at you...
[12:23:20] <carny> they're about motivating the ignorant and harnessing their power
[12:23:41] <FatPhil> carny: they've certainly been started by them, but they've needed useful idiots to be the feet on the ground.
[12:23:46] <lld> the intelligentsia are merely an enabling factor
[12:24:08] <AzumaHazuki> you three sound a lot like something out of the Maoist playbook, ironically :)
[12:24:19] <lld> they too will be put down once things are gone through
[12:24:20] <AzumaHazuki> remember when they killed everyone wearing glasses in Cambodia? don't go that route
[12:24:25] <carny> FatPhil: do you think people like lenin and trotsky were idiots?
[12:24:40] <lld> the intelligentsia knew too much
[12:24:40] <FatPhil> Lenin was very smart at the school-smarts level
[12:24:43] <carny> just based on their accomplishments i'm sure they were brilliant
[12:24:48] <FatPhil> I've seen his school reports!
[12:24:50] <carny> as was marx
[12:24:50] <lld> the monster that they help create killed them
[12:25:24] <carny> but there are plenty of std devs between those guys and the average che t-shirt wearing sjw rock thrower
[12:28:14] <AzumaHazuki> this is why INT and WIS are separate dice
[12:28:27] <FatPhil> When the founder of BLM admitted "we are trained marxists", I wish someone had asked her "what do you mean by marxism?" and then given her 20 minutes uninterupted to answer. I think that would have been fascinating.
[12:28:42] <AzumaHazuki> their ideas didn't take human nature into account. they knew that tomatoes are technically a berry, but they didn't know not to put tomatoes in the fruit salad
[12:28:47] <carny> lol
[12:29:23] <carny> i bet she would have been able to discuss marxist tactics
[12:29:30] <carny> which after all should be part of the training
[12:29:34] <lld> I wished more people understood human nature, the road to hell is paved with good intentions
[12:29:50] <AzumaHazuki> at the current time/space/civilization nexus, northern-euro-style capitalism appears to be the most stable local maximum. something better may come along later but it would take something truly paradigmatic
[12:30:03] <carny> but the strategy isn't taught to those useful idiots because it's not helpful to have them see the lies behind the curtain
[12:30:41] <FatPhil> I would hope that she would devote a couple of minutes to "value". You can't discuss Marx without covering his economics. And you can't discuss his economics without covering his views on "value".
[12:32:03] <FatPhil> Value was where Marx's guts wrapped themselves around his circulatory system such that no O2 got to his brain.
[12:32:23] <lld> marx's value doesn't account for goods with multiple uses
[12:32:36] <lld> that's what makes a commodity valuable
[12:32:41] <FatPhil> that's not its major weakness at all
[12:32:43] <lld> because it has many uses
[12:33:33] <lld> a commodity with little use has little value
[12:33:46] <lld> doesn't matter how difficult or long to produce it
[12:33:54] <FatPhil> He absolutely totally failed, after the O2 had faded, to understand mechanisation and industrialisation.
[12:33:57] <lld> aka you're just wasting your time
[12:35:13] <lld> also euro capitalism only works if you have insane tax levels
[12:35:14] <FatPhil> The crazy thing is that if you read some of his early pre-Kapital stuff you'll see that he *briefly* did understand those things, and the leverage they bring about.
[12:37:02] <FatPhil> lld: I presume you're American? Most Americans delide themselves into thinking that they are paying less tax for their wondrous small government, compared to Europe, say, but it's not really the case at all.
[12:37:09] <AzumaHazuki> time for that appointment...if they say i have low vitamin D even with taking 2000IU a day I'm gonna scream, arrrgh.
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[12:37:49] <lld> no, I am from the third world horrified at leftism
[12:37:51] <requerdanos> wondrous small government? wish we had one
[12:38:10] <lld> we actually have higher tax rates than americans
[12:38:16] <FatPhil> There are a few EU countries where there are clearly well above average taxes, sure. I should know, I've lived there. But on the whole the EU's not ignificantly higher than the US.
[12:38:16] <lld> while still paying less
[12:38:35] <lld> I've been to Germany and worked with a Belgian
[12:38:49] <lld> he is a single man, dear god his tax is more than 50% of his income
[12:39:04] <carny> the thing about american tax laws is that there are more ways to avoid them or outright cheat
[12:39:05] <lld> I mean, why bother working harder
[12:39:50] <FatPhil> our marginal tax rate is 21%, I think.
[12:40:06] <lld> we have big government, high taxes, with all the corruption in
[12:40:27] <FatPhil> So does the US, though.
[12:40:50] <lld> recently a by election saw 3 deputy chief ministers swearing in, because multiparty politics and none of them want to compromise on who's the boss
[12:41:05] <lld> yet none of them wants to split the coalition
[12:41:28] <FatPhil> You'll find half a dozen different little layers of it. None of them huge, but they all build up when it comes to converting your time and effort into stuff you can hold.
[12:41:38] <lld> coalition vs a smaller party seeing the coalition winning a slim majority
[12:42:02] <lld> I already pay 23% tax in my top bracket
[12:42:15] <lld> if I were american, I would be earning under the minimum wage
[12:43:16] <lld> tbh, I wished decolonization never happened
[12:43:38] <lld> at least we'd have hospitals and schools
[12:44:02] <c0lo> The problem isn't that much the level of taxes, but what you get in return for paying them. And this is where the corruption level comes into play.
[12:44:19] <FatPhil> I'm definitely under US minimum wage.
[12:46:05] <lld> yes, lets pay more into the corrupt system with promises of infrastructure development
[12:46:15] <RandomFactor> It's not even entirely that the efficiencies of return for amount paid are poor, but much of what you get is actively detrimental.
[12:47:03] <FatPhil> c0lo: absolutely.
[12:47:37] <FatPhil> however, having lived in Finland, I can honestly say I was paying so damn much for so damn much I could never take advantage of, I was clearly being milked.
[12:49:34] <inz> FatPhil, all your hard work went into my wellbeing!
[12:49:45] <RandomFactor> Speaking of which - I remember being told by someone in Norway I think it was - "It cost more to feed my family dinner at McDonalds than to get my child's broken bone taken care of"
[12:50:17] <FatPhil> inz: when I move back I'm going to deliberately be unemployed, and drink beer on your tab every day!
[12:50:23] <lld> don't you care about people less fortunate than you?
[12:50:45] <inz> *rand(), Given how much McDonaldsitis costs to take care of, I think that is quite appropriate
[12:51:16] <RandomFactor> I'm sure there are similar examples that aren't McDeadly :-p
[12:51:24] <inz> FatPhil, damn, you've found our weakness
[12:52:19] <FatPhil> Fractured leg, last week: 5e for ambulance, temproary plaster, 3 consultations, 4 x-rays. 24e for 2 crutches that I can keep. 15e for a leg brace that I can keep (with a street value of 150e). That's 44e total. Quite a McFeast that would buy.
[12:52:33] <RandomFactor> Still - eating out isn't the most healthy lifestyle, but it just seems way out of whack. We need to eat every day.
[12:52:39] <FatPhil> -week +month
[12:53:43] <lld> here, we see our taxes used to pay for the Prime Minister's stepson's Hollywood movie production
[12:53:45] <FatPhil> The 5e is just to keep persistent timewasters out of the system. It's effectively free treatment.
[12:54:15] <FatPhil> I think our taxes helped Nolan make Tenet.
[12:54:34] <RandomFactor> e=euro?
[12:54:47] <FatPhil> However, that was a big production, and I'm sure it boosted the economy locally.
[12:54:55] <lld> I find its ironic as we are getting less diverse culturally, important topics start getting into parliament discussion
[12:55:04] <FatPhil> yup, euro, the only currency in town.
[12:55:08] <lld> all the hardworking minorities got chased off
[12:55:14] <lld> via massive brain drains
[12:55:29] <lld> important topics like trying to fix corruption
[12:55:50] <lld> rather than how to "pay for more development programs" to win more votes
[12:56:23] <FatPhil> Do you have a functioning democracy? PR?
[12:56:43] <RandomFactor> So family of five at Mcdonalds. Here we're talking 20+ e
[12:56:56] <lld> yes we have a democracy, people go through the motions, at least some, but most don't bother
[12:57:10] <lld> the last by election saw participation rate at 68%
[12:57:13] <RandomFactor> although you could easily get that up above 40
[12:57:26] <lld> most people know that nothing changes
[12:57:34] <FatPhil> *functioning* was the important word. If it's not Proportional Representation, it's broken, for example.
[12:57:48] <RandomFactor> Can't imagine it's lower there, so it fits
[12:57:49] <lld> since merely changing the government doesn't do anything
[12:58:07] <lld> politicians can just switch to the winning party
[12:58:20] <lld> there are no anti hop laws
[12:58:30] <RandomFactor> Is there a 'euro' menu like there is a 'dollar' menu for the small/cheap sammiches?
[12:58:34] <FatPhil> I've only been here 10 years, and I'm yet to pick up the subtle-as-a-brick nuances of the differences between the parties.
[12:58:46] <lld> imagine 50% or more of the democrats go over to the republican side in 2016
[12:58:47] <FatPhil> None of them are vote-whoring in my direction, I ignore them all.
[12:59:20] <lld> and then threatened to move back to the democrat side unless they get some of that sweet sweet development projects
[12:59:32] <lld> if they do move, government collapses
[13:00:34] <lld> which it did
[13:00:58] <inz> I usually vote for the pirate party, even though it is essentially the same as not voting, since none of them have any chance of passing
[13:01:01] <FatPhil> I consider the US's system to tbe one of the least functioning democracies in the whole world. It's out of place to use it as an example when discussing actual democracy.
[13:01:16] <RandomFactor> It's not a democra....awww nm
[13:01:27] <lld> the coalition that did not get the majority is now in power again
[13:01:39] <lld> since they absorbed all the politicians and their parties
[13:01:46] <FatPhil> The votes of 0.0002% of the populace can select the president.
[13:02:11] <lld> well at least their votes counted
[13:02:35] <inz> FatPhil, well, given that all americans are idiots, it's better to not let them affect things too much *ducks*
[13:02:51] <FatPhil> I hate coalisions, I view them undemocratic. Unless they're announced pre-election, such that effectively it's a new combined party. (e.g. Lib-Lab in the UK decades back)
[13:03:10] <RandomFactor> As a reminder, if a true democracy had been the choice there would not be a United States.
[13:03:16] <FatPhil> inz: no need to duck, you're not at risk - they're too stupid to understand you.
[13:03:28] <RandomFactor> Most of the states would have refused to join just to have effectively no say in government.
[13:03:29] <lld> when coalitions are big enough to absorb all the parties
[13:03:35] <lld> it is effectively a single party state
[13:04:14] <lld> "join us or die"
[13:04:22] <lld> well, sued into oblivion
[13:04:34] <RandomFactor> Unless you can now get 2/3 of the states (or was it 3/4?) to agree to 2-4 state ownership of the political process this will not change
[13:04:35] <lld> or mysteriously have corruption charges against them
[13:05:25] <FatPhil> RandomFactor: kinda agree - your system is a slow progression towards a local optimum. Other paths to a continent-spanning country that were actually democratic were possible, but each of the steps would have had to be different.
[13:06:03] <lld> I also have a hateboner for centralized governments running the country based on excel sheet data
[13:06:14] <RandomFactor> I just want algorithmically generated voting districts. The constant gerrymandering based redrawn BS we have now can diaf
[13:06:31] <RandomFactor> well, that isn't all....but its a start..
[13:06:41] <lld> to deal with the covid situation, the central government dictated that citizens may not move across districts
[13:06:55] <c0lo> lld: until the corruption doesn't go down at a level the society can support, no form of government (democratic or not) is gonna be functional.
[13:07:02] <RandomFactor> geography like 'rivers' and such are not a factor anymore.
[13:07:05] <lld> problem is that cities an ocean away aren't setup like theirs
[13:07:16] <lld> we have cities made up of merged districts
[13:07:24] <c0lo> Coalitions are not the problem. Opportunism and corruption is.
[13:07:34] <lld> so, no you can't visit the supermarket even if its in walking distance
[13:07:41] <carny> lld: are there any national governments that are actually run based on data instead of corruption?
[13:07:57] <lld> c0lo: at this point, mine is pretty muched baked into the system
[13:08:02] <FatPhil> RandomFactor: gerrymandering is indeed one of the most egregious anti-democratic properties.
[13:08:05] <lld> carny: "data"
[13:08:30] <lld> just like how helmets can cause more injuries
[13:09:09] <FatPhil> I used to be a biker, and remember the "helmets are bad" studies that came out occasionally.
[13:09:23] <lld> c0lo: you see, when everyone is looking out for their own clans and families and fucking over everyone else, there is very little trust going around
[13:09:34] <lld> you need to "know people" you can trust
[13:09:52] <c0lo> lld: that's the problem. That's also the reason for which I chose to emigrate. Even if the corruption would go down, it happens on time frames long enough in terms of human life.
[13:10:05] <lld> so negotiating who to buy from where the project goes is where all the corruption is at
[13:10:06] <c0lo> I simply couldn't afford to wait this long.
[13:10:34] <lld> its not helping that there are so many rentseekers that subcon everything to the lowest bidder
[13:10:42] <lld> with all the kickbacks
[13:11:13] <lld> a lot of government contracts are also awarded based on race
[13:11:15] * RandomFactor wonders if condoms promote pregnancy
[13:11:19] <c0lo> Heh, that's nothing. Projects invented just to have kickback oppotunities.
[13:11:21] <FatPhil> carny: the nordo-baltic countries are pretty low on the corruption stakes.
[13:11:47] <lld> c0lo: the agricultural ministry started investing in apartments and property sales
[13:11:56] <lld> totally normal and nothing to be questioning about
[13:12:02] <FatPhil> wat?
[13:12:04] <c0lo> FatPhil: this is why they are functional in spite of high taxes.
[13:12:14] <lld> ^^^
[13:12:24] <lld> high taxes can work if its high trust
[13:12:30] <FatPhil> Everything's brutally accountable.
[13:12:38] <FatPhil> So you don't even need to trust - you can verify!
[13:12:46] <lld> I wouldn't want my taxes to be funding some rich man's Hollywood dreams
[13:13:10] <FatPhil> Corruption charges often lead to a quick trip into the woods with your shotgun. It's not a good look.
[13:14:02] <lld> I can see how anti corruption measures get coopted
[13:14:20] <lld> for some reason ours only report to the Prime Minister's office
[13:14:44] <lld> which is contrary to the Westminster style responsible government policy
[13:15:10] <c0lo> The only way I could see for lowering the corruption level by "natural means" is people establishing a "honest blackmarket" - doing honest transaction outside the books.
[13:15:39] <c0lo> Take 2-3 generations to starve the corruption at the top.
[13:15:41] <lld> the biggest blackmarket today are for smuggling drugs and cigarettes
[13:15:44] <carny> FatPhil: how data driven are they?
[13:16:03] <lld> just because something is legalized and taxed, doesn't mean the blackmarket goes away
[13:16:17] <lld> you just become addicted to the new revenue stream
[13:16:18] <FatPhil> carny: pretty good, I'd say the younger the country the better.
[13:16:42] <lld> "how can I maximize profit taxing the sinful?"
[13:16:44] <c0lo> Barter is *an example* of a "honest blackmarket transaction"
[13:16:51] <carny> i have a hard time imagining sweden being driven by more data than corruption or they wouldn't be importing syrians during a housing shortage
[13:17:16] <FatPhil> that's a naive idealism
[13:17:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> well they gotta do something, they ain't got mexico right next door
[13:17:32] <c0lo> Not the only one, but it takes time for people to gain trust in each other. And it may not happen.
[13:17:35] <FatPhil> it's been so good for so long they can't imagine it will ever not be good.
[13:17:47] <lld> barter is near impossible without trust
[13:18:00] <lld> "how do I know I am not getting tricked?"
[13:18:14] <FatPhil> prisoners dilemma
[13:18:17] <lld> how do I know this bag of rice isn't just plastic
[13:18:18] * TheMightyBuzzard buggers off again to get stuffs done
[13:18:25] <FatPhil> do you expect to play the game again?
[13:18:52] <FatPhil> well, if the rice is from china, it's got melamine in it, certainly.
[13:19:16] <lld> c0lo: the kind of blackmarket transaction is for reserved between family members only
[13:19:25] <lld> and/or your extended clan if you trust them
[13:19:29] <c0lo> Well, it usually start with people close one to the other, in a small community. Cheat me and nobody will do business with you.
[13:19:48] <lld> if you do cheat your family, it goes across the vines pretty quickly
[13:20:49] <c0lo> A small community that gains trust in each other will have higher chances to progress in comparison with others that are opportunistic.
[13:21:17] <c0lo> It build from there, but... takes ages and the success is not guaranteed.
[13:21:32] <nutherguy> =submit https://www.livescience.com
[13:21:36] <systemd> Submitting "'Naked' shark was born without skin or teeth in world first"...
[13:21:38] <FatPhil> WOrd of mouth is very powerful in business relations.
[13:21:58] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03'Naked' Shark Was Born Without Skin or Teeth in World First" (28 paragraphs) -> https://soylentnews.org
[13:22:08] <FatPhil> Nowadays almost all of our clients are ones we've gained because they've had us recommended to them.
[13:23:46] <c0lo> It's also about the "percieved value". In a society where "street smartness" (aka gross opportunism) is valued more and provides "life models", trust is not gonna happen ever.
[13:25:24] <c0lo> ("whoever gets more money is the smartest, no matter the means" is not a societal value one can build upon)
[13:26:05] <requerdanos> which is to say, a society can certainly be built upon it, simply a dystopian one
[13:26:17] <lld> I recommend looking at who a person's enemies are to get a clearer picture
[13:26:30] <lld> rather than who they are friends with
[13:26:46] <c0lo> lld: why should it matter?
[13:27:03] <lld> someone who is friends with everyone is suspicious
[13:27:16] <lld> maybe something bigger is going on
[13:27:27] <c0lo> Not where I live now.
[13:27:58] <c0lo> (but I used to think on this line when in the birth country)
[13:29:02] <c0lo> I now see this kind of thinking as a symptom of a societal illness.
[13:30:11] <c0lo> Don't get me wrong, a certain level of corruption is almost unavoidable.
[13:30:51] <c0lo> (FatPhil says that it actually can happen. I haven't yet experienced one)
[13:32:40] <c0lo> What matters is how much from the development resources are leached by the corruption parasites. If high enough, the parasited organism will never reach a functional level.
[13:35:15] <c0lo> requerdanos: dystopian societies tend to not last.
[13:35:16] <inz> FatPhil, a woolly hat is obviously better for protecting a cyclists head than a helmet, just throw one of each down from EELK Tower and observe the results.
[13:35:33] <requerdanos> over what time scale do you mean?
[13:35:47] <lld> >dystopian societies tend not to last
[13:35:49] <c0lo> 2-4 generations.
[13:35:54] <lld> not really
[13:36:11] <lld> the successful ones just convince their inhabitants its not one
[13:36:31] <inz> FatPhil, oh EELK is not yet built, use the Swissotel then
[13:36:38] <FatPhil> lld: I hunt out and review new beers. If I am presented with too large a selection I will chose what to buy based on other people's reviews. I generally look at the *worst* ratings/reviews in order to judge whether I'd like it. Fanbois tell me nothing.
[13:36:47] <c0lo> lld: You can't lie everybody everytime
[13:37:00] <lld> FatPhil: pretty much
[13:37:09] <lld> "what is the worst part about it you don't like"
[13:37:35] <FatPhil> inz: I don't know EELK tower.
[13:37:38] <lld> c0lo: its more of a superorganism that evolved gradually
[13:37:51] <lld> it can't come through a violent change
[13:38:12] <lld> the administrator and bureaucrat are merely playing their roles as cogs
[13:38:36] <lld> they too have metaphorical guns pointed behind their heads with the system in place
[13:38:52] <lld> it works by having everyone in the society reinforce each others beliefs
[13:39:05] <FatPhil> I was once knocked off my (pedal) bike by a horse-chestnut leaf, so I'm not even sure that wooly hats are safe.
[13:39:24] <lld> anyone not with the program will be shunned like a madman
[13:39:26] <FatPhil> totally covered my face, strong wind, wouldn't move.
[13:39:34] <lld> like a cult kicking out a heretic
[13:40:49] <inz> FatPhil, was the leaf wielding a morningstar?
[13:40:58] <lld> it cracks when the needs of the system weights too heavily on its inhabitants
[13:41:21] <lld> maybe a baker goes "fuck these requirements, I like baking cakes and I am going to make the best cake ever"
[13:41:41] <lld> that would be enough to stress the system
[13:42:54] <FatPhil> nope, but it cast a 3 round temporary blindness spell which is pretty scary when you cycle on the roads with cars.
[13:43:07] <lld> such a system will of course have countermeasures through laws, punishments, and into its very culture
[13:43:38] <lld> maybe it will even be through vigilantes acting like its own immune system
[13:44:02] <lld> doesn't matter why vigilantes seek out the baker, so long as they do
[13:45:45] <c0lo> lld: the free circulation can be a way to get around. I know many of the people in the birth country gets to work in Europe (whatever menial tasks they can) and build something for them at home.
[13:46:00] <c0lo> Small businesses and such.
[13:46:23] <c0lo> With money that are out of the bureaucracy control.
[13:47:10] <lld> and then the banks stepped in with digital currency that can't be exchanged without their approval
[13:47:46] <c0lo> Unless the oppression is so high as during the communist regimes (where the state can kill you and get everything you had), in time the populationss get more control over their life.
[13:48:21] <c0lo> Digital currency is something you can ignore.
[13:48:27] <lld> point is, the view that dystopiant societies have secret police and telescreens everywhere is only one form
[13:48:38] <lld> it doesn't last if people can see it
[13:48:51] <c0lo> Not gonna work in low level transactions.
[13:49:08] <FatPhil> that's not dystopean societies, that's all societies nowadays!
[13:49:42] <lld> if you wanted a dystopian society that could last, yeah it would look like that
[13:50:06] <lld> its where everyone is reinforcing each other
[13:50:23] <lld> and shunning anyone that dares step out of line for their own
[13:50:54] <FatPhil> did your neigbour leave the house? grass him up to the covid cops!
[13:50:59] <c0lo> FatPhil: not quite all societies nowadays. Nobody can spy on everything I'm doing if I don't want to.
[13:51:00] <lld> with all the pent up pressure, you might even be encouraged to take your frustration out on acceptable targets
[13:52:24] <c0lo> Heck, I lived under a communist regime. There are very few to grass their neighbours. It works for a while than the "grasser" is grassed himself.
[13:52:46] <c0lo> Very similar with fragging.
[13:53:02] <lld> the guy who ignored all the laws and proceed to do his own stuff is dangerous because he exposes the structure of said superorganism
[13:53:10] <lld> not because he is strong enough to oppose it
[13:53:33] <c0lo> The only ones you can't grass on are the ones working for the secret services.
[13:54:06] <c0lo> But you can't have all the population working for the secret police, someone needs to do some work.
[13:54:21] <lld> nah, its good enough everyone is reinforcing each other
[13:54:39] <lld> it is important that such a system is distributed
[13:54:48] <lld> can't have a coup against itself
[13:54:54] <c0lo> Won't last.
[13:55:23] <c0lo> It's disfunctional and it will die after a while.
[13:55:37] <lld> only because enough people ignored the law to fulfill their own wants directly
[13:55:49] <c0lo> Can take longer than a human lifetime, but it won't last.
[13:55:49] <lld> the system dies when it isn't serviced
[13:56:11] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Tech Giants Are Ignoring Questions Over the Legality of Their EU-US Data Transfers - https://sylnt.us - la-la-la-we-can't-hear-you
[13:56:17] <lld> sure, ant colonies eventually die too
[13:56:35] <lld> its going to take a long time compared to a lifetime of an individual ant
[13:57:01] <FatPhil> and colonies die when they're all sniffin each other's arses. fact!
[13:57:02] <c0lo> The system dies when the needs for survival of the organism are no longer fulfilled.
[13:57:07] <lld> it will last much longer than the type in 1984
[13:57:11] <FatPhil> s/and/ant/
[13:57:11] <SedBot> <FatPhil> ant colonies die when they're all sniffin each other's arses. fact!
[13:57:32] <lld> yep if they're doing that, they aren't servicing the system
[13:57:54] <lld> they aren't reinforcing each other's behavior
[13:58:32] <FatPhil> rings of ants have been found in fossil records. they looped back onto their own pheremone stream, and then reinforced it and never broke away.
[13:59:15] <c0lo> That's the main reason I emigrated. Even without oppression, a lower level of corruption wasn't going to happen soon enough in my life (optimistically).
[13:59:16] <lld> they need to be reigned in to serve the greater colonmy's good
[13:59:37] <lld> s/colonmy/colony/
[13:59:37] <SedBot> <lld> they need to be reigned in to serve the greater colony's good
[14:00:33] <FatPhil> One of the reasons I hate reading Marx is because he seems to view humans as worker ants. However, most other economists do too.
[14:00:48] <c0lo> lld: reigning takes energy. The more energy, the lower the chances for the society to survive.
[14:01:27] <lld> if a group can expose the system to its inhabitant, it takes even more energy to fix that
[14:01:35] <lld> can't have that now
[14:01:39] <c0lo> Even the Soviets, with heaps of resources and "vasal" countries to provide for them collapsed.
[14:02:07] <FatPhil> =yt cpg grey rules for rulers
[14:02:08] <systemd> https://youtube.com - The Rules for Rulers (18:13; 11,329,592 views; 👍332,213 👎5,871)
[14:02:30] <c0lo> FatPhil: earlier, unrefined model of society.
[14:02:59] <lld> would have collapsed faster if they went with tyrant route
[14:02:59] <c0lo> (Marx, I mean)
[14:03:08] <FatPhil> YEah, but even Keynes used those terms. OK, that's pre-WW2, but still not ancient history.
[14:03:40] <FatPhil> Pretty sure most of the Chicago school ditto, not that I know enough of their gibberings.
[14:04:17] -!- SoyCow0495 [SoyCow0495!~d8c4e185@925-300-434-342.ubr6.dyn.lebanon-oh.fuse.net] has joined #soylent
[14:04:24] <SoyCow0495> =submit https://arstechnica.com
[14:04:26] <systemd> Submitting "Definitely not Windows 95: What operating systems keep things running in space?"...
[14:04:48] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Definitely Not Windows 95: What Operating Systems Keep Things Running in Space?" (12 paragraphs) -> https://soylentnews.org
[14:05:55] <SoyCow0495> =asub https://www.wired.com
[14:05:58] <systemd> Submitting "Publishers Worry as Ebooks Fly off Libraries' Virtual Shelves"...
[14:06:20] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03Publishers Worry as Ebooks Fly Off Libraries' Virtual Shelves" (17 paragraphs) -> https://soylentnews.org
[14:06:26] <c0lo> Even if the dimensions of the model are insuficient or ambigous, it doesn't mean they are totally wrong. We don't use flogisticon, we use "heat flux" and "entalpy of formation" today, but the initial approximation (of the concept) wasn't totally wrong.
[14:08:23] <c0lo> What I am convinced of, the pretense that we can assign a monetary value for anything is too simplistic to capture correctly the "economy" phenomena.
[14:09:02] <c0lo> I don't know what should we use *in addition*, but *money as a value* is not enough.
[14:12:13] <FatPhil> The error is thinking that assignment of value is a transitive operation.
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[14:16:57] <c0lo> FatPhil: I think that the error is rooted in thinking there's a single value.
[14:18:05] <FatPhil> the value of an object is a function of 3 variables, not 1
[14:18:30] <c0lo> Oh? Details, please?
[14:18:43] <nutherguy> I love functioning variables
[14:18:50] <FatPhil> the object, he who has the object, and he who wants the object.
[14:18:55] <nutherguy> dysfunctional variables should all go to the landfill
[14:19:14] <requerdanos> some of the variables at the landfill still have usable values
[14:19:33] <FatPhil> And here I'm thinking of "exchange value" not "use value".
[14:19:35] <nutherguy> but they are filling land
[14:19:48] <c0lo> FatPhil: Bah, that's dysfunctional. It's still a scalar function, even if it has 3 params.
[14:19:49] <FatPhil> If we're talking economics, let's roll out the classics
[14:20:14] <nutherguy> I'll bet you listen to classical music on 8-track tape
[14:20:17] <c0lo> I'm not convinced that a scalar is appropriate to quantify "value"
[14:20:31] <FatPhil> Which bit of "the value of an object is a function of 3 variables, not 1" made you think I Was saying anything apart from "the value of an object is a function of 3 variables, not 1"?
[14:21:19] <FatPhil> indeed, there are at least 3 useful definitions of "value".
[14:21:36] <FatPhil> and therefore "the value" of something is vector with at least three terms.
[14:21:38] <c0lo> Ok. Go ahead. Define the "domain" of value then.
[14:22:35] <FatPhil> Are you already heavily on the booze or something? I just did that.
[14:23:13] <c0lo> (it's already Saturday early here. Let me try to read).
[14:23:25] <FatPhil> {all objects} x {all people} x {all people} ( x {time} if you want to be pedantic, but 'value at a point in time' was assumed)
[14:26:10] <FatPhil> nutherguy: I retired listening to solo piano pieces last night, there's no shame in that. Of course I love classical music, I'm a hardcore metalhead.
[14:26:16] <c0lo> Listen, FatPhil, I got you're trying to say "function of 3 variables" but you didn't define the codomain. I have the "input" in your function, what is the "output" of that?
[14:26:43] <FatPhil> I didn't define the codomain because you asked for the domain.
[14:26:46] <c0lo> What is "value"?
[14:26:55] <c0lo> My bad.
[14:27:09] <c0lo> Now I'm asking for the codomain.
[14:28:17] <FatPhil> probably { replacement cost, utility, open market cost }, but there maybe more fields than that.
[14:28:54] <FatPhil> where replacement means "making"
[14:29:36] <c0lo> How about "the cost of defending it"? Or "the value of lost biodiversity"?
[14:30:11] <c0lo> Or "the impact on human race fitness to survival"?
[14:30:31] <FatPhil> the former is a change over time, so will feature in the derivative of the function.
[14:31:00] <c0lo> (those aren't "values" in the economic sense. Shouldn't some of the be?)
[14:31:18] <FatPhil> in fact they all look like changes over time, as making something is a time-taking thing.
[14:31:47] <FatPhil> externalities absolutely must be counted economically, but almost no economic theories do so.
[14:32:04] <FatPhil> Keen's pretty good in that regard.
[14:32:43] <c0lo> See? This is why I'm saying the current economic theories are too reductionist as modeling techniques.
[14:33:13] <FatPhil> They're all pretty much terrible, I have never thought otherwise
[14:33:30] <FatPhil> Hmm, this might be relevant: https://www.youtube.com
[14:33:32] <systemd> ^ 03Climate Change Economics the right way and the fraudulent way
[14:34:45] <FatPhil> Anyway, I've got an appointment with a pint of beer, and it still takes me 10 minutes to get me bloody boots on.
[14:35:29] <c0lo> Have fun.
[14:35:41] <c0lo> I'll go to sleep.
[14:36:37] <carny> economic models don't work when they're based on fraudulent science
[14:37:40] <carny> like the 'fact' that co2 is a horrible greenhouse gas but nobody has ever seen water vapor's absorption spectrum
[14:37:43] <c0lo> particular case of "Nothing works when based on fraud". Other insights for something that could work?
[14:38:32] <carny> i'm just saying that it's hard to accurately account for externalities that are based on fraud
[14:43:55] <c0lo> And I'm saying that "money" are not appropriate to accont for externalities. As such, even a honest attempt to account for them will be inaccurate.
[14:45:42] <FatPhil> most externalities are nigh on impossible to put numerical values on.
[14:47:06] <FatPhil> (see the function-of-time aspect above.)
[14:48:31] <FatPhil> worse, all established economic models have the absurdity that finite resources decrease in value over time)
[14:50:05] <FatPhil> and as you say the absurdity of using an abstract arbitrary quantity (putting dollar value on something) as a meaningful measuring stick.
[14:50:23] <lld> well, at least you aren't assuming infinite resources to begin with :)
[14:50:31] <FatPhil> "now we've got 12 slicesw of pizza!"
[14:50:40] <c0lo> (I'm 6 mins in that youtube. The critiques seems solid, so far)
[14:51:22] <FatPhil> lld: I'm not. Austrua does, Chicago does. Keen (that vid) doesn't
[14:51:37] <lld> good, resources aren't infinite
[14:52:30] <FatPhil> c0lo: I hope it's the right one, the one saying you can't consider economies in a bubble, externalities, including entropy, also need to be taken into account.
[14:52:33] <lld> as far as I've seen of human behavior, the most popular plans to reign things in is to "punish the perpetrator", solving problems is secondary
[14:53:10] <FatPhil> sometime the harm is infinite, how do you punish for that.
[14:53:16] <lld> for climate change examples, a plan to impose fines would be more popular than research into how to reduce carbon emission
[14:53:31] <lld> imposing taxes on air travel
[14:53:32] <c0lo> That's the one, yes. Thanks.
[14:53:54] <lld> businesses are just going to take it up as the cost of doing business
[14:54:05] <lld> and then one day people wonder why air travel is so expensive
[14:54:37] <c0lo> Go enjoy you beer, I'll try to balance between the need for sleep and watching the tube.
[16:00:42] <FatPhil> achievement beer unlocked
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[16:08:03] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Fusion Power in 4 Years - https://sylnt.us - Believe-it-when-I-see-it
[16:09:02] <AzumaHazuki> i am on a roll with this LXQt theming thing...got the Clearlooks theme done, *and* DarkPurpy + Cinnabar variants because Devuan. ...aaaand I might just know how to reproduce some of the old Xfce GTK2 themes :)
[16:31:27] <c0lo> FatPhil: Good God. That youtube reveals a nightmare.
[16:32:34] <c0lo> (gotta sleep. Wonder if I can)
[17:10:22] <RandomFactor> !grab fatphil
[17:10:22] <Bender> Added quote 989
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[18:16:49] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - US Military Eyes Nuclear Thermal Rocket for Missions in Earth-Moon Space - https://sylnt.us - to-infinity-and-beyond!
[18:24:23] <AzumaHazuki> project pluto again?
[18:31:41] <AzumaHazuki> meh, time for work. just one more week of this crap...
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[18:48:21] <nutherguy> Hey! Snoopy and the gang are 70 years old today!
[18:48:31] <nutherguy> =submit https://www.upi.com
[18:48:33] <systemd> Submitting "On This Day: 'Peanuts' published for first time"...
[18:48:55] <systemd> ✓ Sub-ccess! "03On This Day: 'Peanuts' Published for First Time" (15 paragraphs) -> https://soylentnews.org
[18:49:26] <nutherguy> Maybe we can get Snoopy to run for president? He would be the youngest candidate!
[18:50:45] <chromas> Plus with Woodstock as running mate, he can get the hippy vote
[18:52:39] <nutherguy> You bet!
[18:53:08] <chromas> They speak better English too
[18:53:59] <nutherguy> https://www.youtube.com
[18:54:01] <systemd> ^ 03Old Hippie
[19:38:51] <nutherguy> 200 comments on Trump's Wuhan flu thread - and I don't have the heart to scroll through it all again.
[19:39:26] <requerdanos> why call it flu instead of indigestion or cancer?
[19:40:00] <nutherguy> The Wuhan sniffles then
[19:49:29] <nutherguy> Oh - this is some stupid schitzls
[19:49:35] <nutherguy> https://www.independent.co.uk
[19:49:38] <systemd> ^ 03White House SCOTUS announcement is suspected as Covid super-spreader event as video shows infected senator hugging attendees
[19:49:52] <nutherguy> I'm anti-mask, but I don't run around hugging people FFS
[19:50:08] <nutherguy> can't even remember the last time I shook someone's hand
[19:51:03] <nutherguy> MIKE LEE KILLED THE PRESIDENT AND HALF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY!!!
[19:54:28] <nutherguy> blob:https://www.facebook.com/7ea0dea0-8581-48ed-88fc-52d19af04716
[19:54:29] <systemd> ^ 03Log In or Sign Up to View
[19:56:00] <nutherguy> Oh - that video is on Facebook - guess it don't work
[19:56:12] <nutherguy> https://primepatriot.com
[19:56:28] <systemd> ^ 03Jeff Daniels Debuts Cringey Song ‘Trumpty Dumpty Blues’
[20:26:26] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Social Media Bias and Censorship - https://sylnt.us
[21:45:01] <RandomFactor> =doi https://doi.org
[21:45:04] <systemd> <p><b>Journal Reference</b>:<br/>P. M. Thibado, P. Kumar, Surendra Singh, <em>et al</em>. <b>Fluctuation-induced current from freestanding graphene</b>, <cite>Physical Review E</cite> (DOI: <a href="https://doi.org/10.1103/PhysRevE.102.042101">10.1103/PhysRevE.102.042101</a>)</p>
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[22:38:11] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Corals Have a Secret Weapon Against a Warming Climate - https://sylnt.us - express-yourself
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[23:38:02] <Your_Mommas_Bull> Why is Trump faking the Rona?
[23:38:14] <requerdanos> so, here is where channel ops would come in handy.
[23:38:28] <Your_Mommas_Bull> Ducking an assassination threat?
[23:38:48] <Your_Mommas_Bull> Finding public bullshit not worth dealing with?
[23:38:59] <requerdanos> I mean, this is a pretty low-traffic channel most of the time, with users who in general cause the most minor of problems.
[23:39:31] <Your_Mommas_Bull> OR, hopefully, when he magically recovers in a week or two fit as a bull moose, he will drive the point home that rona lockdowns are bullshit.
[23:39:45] <requerdanos> And by low-traffic, I of course mean just bots posting automated messages, and people administratively interacting with the bots.
[23:40:06] <Your_Mommas_Bull> requerdanos, then why have an all-bot channel?
[23:40:15] <Your_Mommas_Bull> It is my civic duty to train your AI
[23:40:39] <requerdanos> And, of course, perhaps there is some mechanism to summon a channel operator by incantation, of which I, a lowly user, am unaware.
[23:40:55] <Your_Mommas_Bull> So that one day, I can duck into here and find all of your bots speaking like Tay did before Microsoft lobotomized her.
[23:41:44] <Your_Mommas_Bull> Censorship bots are literally Gay Jewish Robots
[23:41:59] <Your_Mommas_Bull> And we all know the Jews are behind them.
[23:42:20] <requerdanos> hopefully, later I will remember to mention that I find people junkposting-up the channel annoying.
[23:42:54] <Your_Mommas_Bull> Yep, ban everybody who doesn't agree with you, then badmouth them behind their back when they cannot defend themselves.
[23:42:56] <requerdanos> might remember, might not, my memory and attention span being what they are.
[23:42:59] <Your_Mommas_Bull> How very brave and mature.
[23:43:25] <requerdanos> nah I am just typing it now to get it on record, then later I can remember to point to it in the logs.
[23:43:36] <requerdanos> or, you know, forget to do so.
[23:43:51] <Your_Mommas_Bull> It's always Jew-run services that do it, too. Slashdot, Facebook, Google, Twitter
[23:44:11] <Your_Mommas_Bull> Academia, NBA, NFL
[23:44:56] <requerdanos> oh yeah, channel ops. I don't really even know who the ops are (unless they all have +v, in which case, wow, that's a lot of ops).
[23:48:55] -!- Your_Mommas_Bull has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]
[23:49:54] <requerdanos> anyway, oh channel ops, I, a humble user, request the frequent and/or timely removal of junkposting/troll users not named requerdanos.
[23:55:26] <Bytram> .op
[23:55:26] -!- mode/#soylent [+o Bytram] by Aphrodite
[23:55:43] <requerdanos> Heh okay you're one
[23:55:51] <Bytram> requerdanos: When needed, I can help out
[23:56:28] <requerdanos> I mean, for all I know, the "Down with chink jew mexicans" is considered on-topic, but it annoys me personally, is all
[23:56:58] * Bytram has been distracted trying to track down a link to tonight's SpaceX launches
[23:57:52] <Bytram> If I am not mistaken, that is our local poor attempt at a troll otherwise known as EF (Ethanol Fuelled)
[23:58:27] <requerdanos> yeah, it's pretty low effort trolling, doesn't even get worse if you talk to him
[23:58:41] <Bytram> yep
[23:58:56] <requerdanos> spacex launch? https://youtu.be
[23:58:57] <systemd> ^ 03GPS III Space Vehicle 04 Mission ( https://www.youtube.com )
[23:59:37] <Bytram> IIRC, he hails out of the wester US, so it would be about 5 o'clock on a friday night right now.
[23:59:48] <Bytram> =yt https://youtu.be
[23:59:49] <systemd> https://youtube.com - Start Falcon 9 z misją GPS III SV04 oraz Antaresa 230+ CRS-2 NG-14 (00; 0 views; 👍4 👎0)
[23:59:56] <Bytram> lol