#soylent | Logs for 2020-01-15

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[00:03:39] -!- Runaway1956 [Runaway1956!~guy@69.57.ruj.hst] has joined #soylent
[00:07:57] * TheMightyBuzzard has two pina coladas, one for each hand
[00:08:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> #yt wgYiUtWmY08
[00:08:13] <MrPlow> https://www.youtube.com -- Two Pina Coladas (Garth Brooks)
[00:09:38] <carny> isn't it better to leave one in the freezer until you're ready for it?
[00:10:40] <FatPhil> they don't call him "two straws" buzz for nothing
[00:11:09] <TheMightyBuzzard> only if you drink them slowly
[00:15:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> dominos won't break a hundred but the liquor store across the street will
[00:18:35] <Runaway1956> Oh crap - wife's computer just updated itself - she may be joining the Win10 hordes
[00:19:16] <Runaway1956> fekkin' Microsoft
[00:19:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> har!
[00:19:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> there's a severe security patch to all versions of windows. be glad it did.
[00:20:11] <Runaway1956> I thought I had it all blocked, automatic updates is turned OFF - but the machine just rebooted itself while she was playing her game
[00:20:39] <Runaway1956> The name "Windows" is a security flaw
[00:22:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> flaw in crypt32.dll. be glad it got patched.
[00:23:48] <Runaway1956> Hmmm - does that affect her, though? She uses no crypts other than HTTPS
[00:25:23] <TheMightyBuzzard> https is a big one
[00:30:52] <Runaway1956> Well, MS has screwed up again, it seems - that update is stuck at 35% installing itself
[00:31:20] <Runaway1956> can't tell what's happening behind that stupid screen, maybe it's downloading 100 gigabytes of data
[00:32:58] <carny> or uploading everything you have ;]
[00:33:17] <Runaway1956> to be precise, uploading everything SHE has
[00:33:25] <Runaway1956> my machines are Linux
[00:35:23] <carny> got any network drives mapped? ;]
[00:35:41] <Runaway1956> not to me, only to her devices
[00:35:54] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Global PC Sales Up for First Time in 7 Straight Years - https://sylnt.us - what-is-a-PC?
[00:39:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> Runaway1956, leave it do its thing. if it fucks anything up bitch about it in a sub.
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[01:01:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> fuck, i mix a good drink
[01:02:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> #yt zac brown toes
[01:02:33] <MrPlow> https://www.youtube.com -- Zac Brown Band - Toes (Video)
[01:07:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> #yt zac brown knee deep
[01:07:07] <MrPlow> https://www.youtube.com -- Zac Brown Band - &quot;Knee Deep&quot; Feat. Jimmy Buffett
[01:13:17] <Runaway1956> OMG, Angband seems to have crashed!! Now THAT is a catastropphe!
[01:19:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> huh, now that's odd
[01:20:46] <TheMightyBuzzard> think i'll go have a smoke and see how that fits into the government trying to suppress JMH's message by any means necessary
[01:21:17] <Runaway1956> lol - it's prbably key to the whole suppression thing
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[02:25:15] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Plug-in and Sail: Meet the Electric Ferry Pioneers - https://sylnt.us - how-long-is-the-extension-cord?
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[02:29:37] <Bytram> boru: o/
[02:38:32] <RandomFactor> =g xenobot
[02:38:32] <systemd> https://xenobot.net - XenoBot
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[02:40:55] <chromas> The sliding screenshots need more bounce
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[02:44:37] <Bytram> boru: o/
[02:44:46] <RandomFactor> https://www.voanews.com
[02:44:47] <systemd> ^ 03New Space Force Chief Sworn in
[02:45:47] <RandomFactor> https://www.ctvnews.ca
[02:45:48] <systemd> ^ 03Tinder, Grindr accused of illegally sharing user data
[02:53:36] <Bytram> http://feedproxy.google.com
[02:53:37] <systemd> ^ 03Tinder, Grindr Accused of Illegally Sharing User Data ( https://www.securityweek.com )
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[02:55:33] <RandomFactor> My feeds are remarkably boring today
[02:56:24] <RandomFactor> https://www.eurekalert.org
[02:56:26] <systemd> ^ 03Opening up DNA to delete disease
[02:57:48] <RandomFactor> https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2020/01/14/report-amazon-seeks-restraining-order-against-microsoft-on-10-billion-pentagon-cloud-contract/
[02:57:49] <systemd> ^ 03Report: Amazon Seeks Restraining Order Against Microsoft on $10 Billion Pentagon Cloud Contract
[02:57:55] <RandomFactor> Hmmm, who to root for.
[02:58:09] <Bytram> already in the story queue
[02:58:22] * Bytram just pushed it out
[02:58:35] <RandomFactor> figures. I'm too old and too slow today
[02:59:23] <Bytram> Nah. Just means that you DID have a good idea for a story!
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[02:59:24] <Bytram> https://go.theregister.co.uk
[02:59:25] <systemd> ^ 03IBM, Microsoft, a medley of others sing support for Google against Oracle in Supremes' Java API copyright case ( https://www.theregister.co.uk )
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[02:59:42] <Bytram> boru: o/
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[03:00:57] <RandomFactor> https://phys.org
[03:00:58] <systemd> ^ 03Final images from Cassini spacecraft
[03:01:41] <Bytram> RandomFactor: Have you taken a look at: https://wiki.soylentnews.org
[03:01:52] <RandomFactor> One image. Nice one tho
[03:01:59] <Bytram> clicky
[03:03:25] <RandomFactor> What is this?
[03:03:37] <Bytram> what is what?
[03:04:28] <RandomFactor> This from that stories channel? (something like that) some sort of sources of stories I remember on one irc page
[03:04:46] <Bytram> That would be: #rss-bot
[03:04:52] <RandomFactor> yeah, that
[03:05:07] <Bytram> The page I directed you to is updated each hour by the exec bot
[03:05:23] <RandomFactor> why isn't that in my channel tabs. Must fix.
[03:06:06] <Bytram> It has it's own list of feeds, IIUC, finds stories, prepares them for submission, and for those that don't go ka-plooey, get added to that story bot page.
[03:06:13] <Bytram> s/'//
[03:06:22] <Bytram> ~sed on
[03:06:23] <exec> sed enabled for 10#soylent
[03:08:31] <Bytram> as for the #rss-bot channel, it (along with several others) is logged. You can find the logs at: https://logs.sylnt.us
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[03:12:50] * RandomFactor cries inconsolably
[03:13:44] <RandomFactor> ~arthur
[03:13:46] <exec> 721 stories loaded
[03:13:46] <exec> story not found
[03:13:54] <RandomFactor> sho nuff
[03:14:07] <Bytram> need to give it an argument...
[03:14:19] <RandomFactor> i was just checking for a pulse
[03:14:30] <Bytram> ~arthur https://threatpost.com
[03:14:32] <exec> 721 stories loaded
[03:14:32] <exec> attempting to submit story: "Oracle Ties Previous All-Time Patch High with January Updates"
[03:14:49] <Bytram> can provide either the key number or the URL from that page.
[03:15:03] <exec> submission successful - https://soylentnews.org
[03:15:09] <exec> 720 stories loaded
[03:15:17] <RandomFactor> Are these those "Bot submissions that need many an editing" ?
[03:16:15] <RandomFactor> It is! I wondered where those came from " This is the complete story and will need further editing. "
[03:16:24] <Bytram> yep, that's the one
[03:16:26] <Bytram> =)
[03:16:34] <Bytram> And... now you know.
[03:22:47] <Bytram> =g Arthur C Clarke old scientist is probably right wrong
[03:22:48] <systemd> https://en.wikipedia.org - Clarke's three laws - Wikipedia
[03:23:09] <AzumaHazuki> so Phoenix666 wants me to be an editor...ye gods, i don't know if i could handle the stress
[03:23:40] <Bytram> Welcome to *my* world!
[03:23:45] <Bytram> Take a look: https://soylentnews.org
[03:24:00] <systemd> ^ 03SoylentNews: Hall of Fame ( https://soylentnews.org )
[03:24:48] <AzumaHazuki> to be honest, at this point i almost wonder if the internet would be better off if SN just disappeared...
[03:24:51] <AzumaHazuki> and that hurts
[03:25:32] <Bytram> I think he was mostly yanking your chain.
[03:27:19] <pinchy> chains have been yanked
[03:27:32] <AzumaHazuki> always a possibility
[03:27:45] <AzumaHazuki> this place has gone to hell and i honestly don't know why i still hang out here
[03:28:34] <Bytram> Rather than just "fighting in the trenches", have you given any thought to submitting stories?
[03:29:07] <AzumaHazuki> yes. i do a fair number of them
[03:29:20] <Bytram> Nothing slanted, mind you, but something on the more liberal, progressive take on things
[03:29:23] <AzumaHazuki> usually science rather than politics. and the usual suspects still shit them all up with their disgusting blather
[03:29:49] * Bytram does not recall subs... goes to check
[03:31:53] * Bytram sees to story submissions in may of 2019... that's it. Am I missing something?
[03:34:56] <Bytram> s/to/two/
[03:34:57] <exec> <Bytram> sees two story submissions in may of 2019... that's it. Am I missing something?
[03:35:39] <AzumaHazuki> ...did...did you...look at the front page recently?
[03:36:44] <Bytram> Believe it or not, I rarely have much time left over to actually read the site.
[03:36:51] <Julian> This Democratic debate is terrible
[03:39:22] <chromas> One whole sub
[03:39:32] <Bytram> AzumaHazuki: I take it you are referring to stories in your Journal?
[03:39:54] <AzumaHazuki> no. most of my submissions are =submit commands, which means they show up as upstart's not mine
[03:40:37] <Bytram> Ohhh, ok. I tend to not pay attention to who subbed those... except to try and avoid ones that I had subbed myself.
[03:43:50] <AzumaHazuki> I will be honest: there are times in which, had I the ability to a) pull it off and b) not get caught, I would without a moment's thought vaporize SN entirely, utterly destroy it from the face of the Internet
[03:44:00] <AzumaHazuki> and at this point, nothing of value would be lost
[03:44:37] <AzumaHazuki> this place has gone to shit
[03:44:51] <chromas> from the things-I-don't-like-shouldn't-exist dept.
[03:45:13] <AzumaHazuki> i am so, so tired of fighting the rising tide of bullshit all alone
[03:49:18] <Bytram> perhaps nothing of value to you, but I have things posted to this site that I would like to have continue on. Like my investigation into the alleged journal story deletion, the affirmations and encouragement I received following the report of my hospitalization, the automated tests that I created so as to test our UTF-8 support and the stories which exercised those.
[03:49:25] <pinchy> make slashdot great again
[03:50:04] <AzumaHazuki> all forms are void. someday everything disappears. the question is more about the journey than the destination
[03:50:15] <AzumaHazuki> and we have been going down the wrong road for years
[03:50:34] <Julian> It is disheartening seeing all the reactionary comments, but they're almost always downvoted
[03:50:44] <Bytram> Julian++
[03:50:44] <Bender> karma - julian: 1
[03:51:00] <AzumaHazuki> so? you can't beat a fanatic. these people are rabid, monomaniacal
[03:51:21] <Julian> We just need a few more leftist fanatics, then
[03:51:23] <Bytram> AzumaHazuki: who is this *we* who have been going down the wrong road for years?
[03:51:48] <Bytram> downmod and move on.
[03:52:13] <AzumaHazuki> we as in the site itself. look at the constant shitspamming from the right-wing trolls, look at the utter psychopaths like Hallow and Runaway and Uzzard, look at the useless "neutrality at all costs" eds like janrinok...
[03:52:27] <Bytram> rather than post refutations to their comments, just speak your own truth.
[03:52:45] <Julian> Centrists are the worst
[03:52:50] <AzumaHazuki> I do. And I may as well be explaining mountaineering to a clam, as far as that lot is concerned
[03:52:54] <Bytram> anybody that you would like to silence, can make the same case against you.
[03:53:10] <Julian> lol no
[03:53:21] <AzumaHazuki> I don't want to silence them, don't get me wrong. I want them to keep wharrrgarbling on and get the unholy shit kicked out of them every time they do
[03:53:42] <Julian> socialism versus barbarism isn't a debate among equal sides
[03:53:59] <AzumaHazuki> and i'm not even a socialist. just someone tired of watching her friends suffer and die
[03:54:09] <AzumaHazuki> not to mention perilously close to that myself far too many times
[03:54:25] <Bytram> https://xkcd.com
[03:54:26] <systemd> ^ 03Duty Calls
[03:54:45] <Julian> We have people on SN dehumanizing whole groups of people, which ultimately leads to genocide if not checked
[03:55:48] <AzumaHazuki> that's not even what i mind so much. it's the sneering, smirking, amoral hypocrisy they display, the utter shameless projection and gaslighting
[03:55:57] <AzumaHazuki> we are overrun with sociopaths, genuine fucking sociopaths
[03:56:17] <Julian> Just a few highly online sociopaths, really
[03:56:25] <Bytram> As much as I may despise what they say, they have just as much of a right to speak (write) their minds as anybody else. What I can do, though, is moderate them appropriately and simply speak *my* truth.
[03:57:07] <AzumaHazuki> there is no "my truth." There is the truth, which any human may or may not be apprised of to varying degrees
[03:57:26] <Julian> Freedom of speech means they can stand on their street corner with a sandwich board over their body. It doesn't mean they should get an account on a community website
[03:57:38] <cykros> the truth that can be told is not the real truth
[03:57:43] <Bytram> if their writing are that egregious, and other's share your view, then continued downmods will get them to the point where they cannot post.
[03:57:47] <AzumaHazuki> now hold on, Julian, I'm not saying ban or deplatform people like Hallow
[03:58:06] <Bytram> That's what happened to rDT.
[03:58:11] <AzumaHazuki> no, i want him to keep posting his cognitohazardous spew. but i also want enough people around to dogpile on him and take it apart
[03:58:23] <AzumaHazuki> and good riddance to rDT
[03:59:10] <Julian> I'd be fine with reactionaries being banned, but I recognize it's not a popular opinion. Maybe more could be done to bury their submissions and comments
[03:59:19] <Bytram> that was simply a result of continued downmods by the community. Are you following me here? Don't just scream and yell, use all the tools at your disposal.
[03:59:39] <AzumaHazuki> i do, but did you know, four or more downmods is "modbombing" and gets undone
[03:59:54] <AzumaHazuki> Uzzard seems to have started that one after I Troll-modded his incessant troll posts.
[03:59:56] <Bytram> per day
[04:00:04] <Julian> I was caught by that once, yeah
[04:00:18] <Bytram> nope. it had been in effect from well nigh the beginning.
[04:00:39] <Bytram> and with that, I'm still fighting a nasty cold, and need to get me to bed.
[04:00:42] <AzumaHazuki> Bytram, do you see the problem here? You can't fight an effectively unlimited stream of trolling with 10 points, only 4 of which may be used on a single person, plus if it's an AC you might not even KNOW you "modbombed" them
[04:01:07] <Bytram> by definition you cannot modbomb an AC
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[04:01:32] <AzumaHazuki> look, at the end of the day, the sociopaths laugh at people who take the high road. they see civility and good sportsmanship as weaknesses, chinks in the opponent's armor they can leverage
[04:01:50] <AzumaHazuki> they view it as weakness, as proof that their opponents are inferior and deserve to suffer
[04:01:52] <Bytram> as it has always been
[04:02:01] <Julian> Ban accounts/IPs with a long, consistent, history of being constantly downmodded
[04:02:08] <Bytram> and yet, you and I are still here.
[04:02:18] <AzumaHazuki> i have news for you Bytram
[04:02:24] <AzumaHazuki> i am seriously considering leaving
[04:02:24] <Bytram> Julian: that happens automatically.
[04:02:41] <Bytram> I'll be sorry to see you go.
[04:02:52] <AzumaHazuki> but you and yours won't do anything to keep me, either
[04:02:57] <chromas> This is like Facebook. "I'm totally leaving and closing my account! Any time now!"
[04:04:11] <Bytram> AzumaHazuki: I cannot compel you to stay. The choice is *yours*.
[04:04:13] <Julian> Needs to happen more aggressively then
[04:04:27] <AzumaHazuki> Don't act like the administration of this site has clean hands, damn it
[04:04:51] <Julian> Or maybe rate-limit people with bad karma to like 1 post/comment per day
[04:05:04] <Bytram> you are seeing conspiracies that I do not see.
[04:05:13] <Bytram> they speak their minds as do you.
[04:05:34] <AzumaHazuki> ACs at -1 by default, some sort of rate-limiting as Julian suggested for accounts that get a lot of Troll and Flamebait mods (that *aren't* sockpuppeting horseshit)
[04:05:38] <AzumaHazuki> that's a start
[04:06:45] <Bytram> use the friend / foe feature, and set a preference that foes get -6 offset to their score.
[04:06:52] <Bytram> gone.
[04:06:58] <AzumaHazuki> way to miss the point
[04:07:14] <AzumaHazuki> come on, dammit, you're one of the ones i really like and respect...don't do this :(
[04:07:25] <Bytram> it is easier to put slippers on my feet than it is to carpet the world.
[04:07:48] <Bytram> It has taken me *many* years to learn where to fight my battles
[04:07:50] <AzumaHazuki> more like, easier to wear a hazmat suit that clean up a city
[04:07:54] <Julian> Ban the people showering the world with caltrops then!
[04:08:20] <AzumaHazuki> i get it. but...what happens when there's nowhere to go? what happens when your suit fails? what happens when, indeed, the people causing the pollution take your suit away?
[04:08:27] <Bytram> like you, I have spent huge amounts of energy trying to change things that, ultimately, were out of my control.
[04:09:06] <AzumaHazuki> you know something? I'm starting to understand why the alt-right calls some people "cuck."
[04:09:09] <Julian> The structure of this small community is definitely within the control of a few decent people
[04:09:20] <AzumaHazuki> ^ fucking this
[04:09:41] <Bytram> AzumaHazuki: I suspect I have your respect, not from waging battles in the comments, but by simply speaking my truth.
[04:10:09] <AzumaHazuki> You do. But it's starting to drain
[04:10:32] <Bytram> yes, I understand. I. Have. Been. There.
[04:10:43] <AzumaHazuki> Julian is correct: a small community of under 10,000 people, all in one place, all posting through one interface, is easily maintainable by a few people
[04:11:00] <Bytram> but not controllable.
[04:11:12] <AzumaHazuki> it need not be controllable. it just needs not to be a shithole
[04:12:49] <AzumaHazuki> you have a staff problem here. too many editors and admins have this fetish for a kind of false civility and mistaken "neutrality." Janrinok is by far the worst offender.
[04:12:59] <AzumaHazuki> and then there's Uzzard, who is a genuine Cluster B case
[04:13:28] <Bytram> I accept that others will have other views. I do not support them. I do not even like them, and some I find repugnant. But, since they are out of my control, I choose to spend my energy where I can make a difference.
[04:13:45] <AzumaHazuki> not choosing is a choice. remember that.
[04:15:08] <Bytram> The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most
[04:15:08] <Bytram> of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that
[04:15:08] <Bytram> oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at
[04:15:08] <Bytram> the beginning if it is to be stopped at all.
[04:15:08] <Bytram> -- H.L. Mencken
[04:15:14] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Apple Denies FBI Request to Unlock Shooter’s iPhone - https://sylnt.us - won't-or-can't?
[04:15:26] <Julian> RIP Neil Peart
[04:15:30] <AzumaHazuki> don't patronize me, Bytram
[04:15:38] <AzumaHazuki> i know full well that lesson
[04:15:57] <AzumaHazuki> that is why i keep saying i don't want to silence, e.g., Hallow or J-Mo
[04:16:22] <AzumaHazuki> sunlight is the best disinfectant. i want their ideas dragged out into the light, minutely examined, and fucking vivisected
[04:16:24] <chromas> "I don't want to silence them, I just want to take down the whole website"
[04:16:38] <Julian> A Man for All Seasons is more apropos
[04:17:19] <Bytram> I would like to continue this discussion, but I *am* sick and really do need sleep.
[04:17:22] <AzumaHazuki> Bytram, do you know what the hate-driven ideologue fears most? It's not violence. It's not pain. It's not opposition. It's mockery
[04:17:52] <AzumaHazuki> all right, get some rest...but please think on these things. neutrality and civility for their own sake are empty and weak, and the sociopaths know this
[04:18:00] <chromas> That's why so many people were butthurt over NPC Wojak
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[05:16:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> Julian, okay, you've convinced me. i'll start banning and otherwise using admin powers to silence folks i don't agree with tomorrow.
[05:17:08] <Julian> Yeah that's barbarism winning, proves my point
[05:17:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> or did you mean folks YOU don't agree with? because that includes me and i don't feel like banning myself.
[05:17:42] <AzumaHazuki> aw, shit, you woke him up
[05:17:51] <Julian> I mean, we could have some sort of online struggle session for you to learn to hate your former self :)
[05:17:54] * TheMightyBuzzard was getting his pirates and rum on
[05:18:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> never gonna happen. my life is wonderful.
[05:18:23] <AzumaHazuki> "sodomy, rum, and the lash?" I would not have figured you to be into whipping
[05:18:25] <Julian> I believe that you believe that
[05:19:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> not as a general rule, no, but a well timed spanking can be nice
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[05:20:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> Julian, we're never, ever, ever going to censor someone because we don't like their point of view. end of story.
[05:20:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> not banning, not shadowbanning, not even removing mod points.
[05:20:54] <Julian> We have a moderation system. We already censor people. We are debating the nature of censorship.
[05:21:11] <AzumaHazuki> ...holy hell, that never even occurred to me
[05:21:28] <AzumaHazuki> moderation as censorship sounds a bit out there, but it kind of is that
[05:21:47] <TheMightyBuzzard> that's not censorship. plenty of us browse at -1 so as to ignore butthurt modders. anyone can do the same.
[05:22:08] <AzumaHazuki> (the question is, why the fuck would you?)
[05:22:09] <TheMightyBuzzard> or anyone can correct a bad downmod.
[05:23:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> AzumaHazuki, part and parcel of being an admin in my case but i did the same over at /. just because i got sick of mob mentality hiding comments from me.
[05:23:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> i'm not a fragile little snowflake who needs to be protected from mean words.
[05:23:31] <Julian> The community deems certain material better or worse to be viewed by default, which is censorship. My fundamental premise is included in the community already
[05:23:38] <AzumaHazuki> you're really something else. i don't think i've ever met a walking piece of write-only memory before, Uzzard
[05:23:46] * TheMightyBuzzard shrugs
[05:24:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> think of it how you will but the content is still there and still visible to anyone who wants to see it.
[05:24:23] <Julian> The loony down the street with the sandwich board is still visible, too
[05:24:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> pshaw, you can't write to my memory.
[05:24:37] <AzumaHazuki> no, no, other way
[05:24:53] <Julian> We are, as always, debating the nature of the censorship in the community
[05:24:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> Julian, yes, and we let the loony and his sammich board speak on the corner.
[05:25:10] <AzumaHazuki> nothing gets into that solipsistic wasteland but, boy howdy, does a lotta sewage get out. your skull might actually be an observable instance of hawking radiation
[05:25:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> tonight it's mostly a rum filter
[05:26:15] <TheMightyBuzzard> dominos wouldn't break a hundred but the liquor store across the street would and i heard that garth brooks pina colada song on the way over, so...
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[05:27:45] <AzumaHazuki> there is a good reason hindus and buddhists say people like you reincarnate as animals, if you're lucky. your entire existence seems to be in the service of base desires
[05:27:50] <Julian> We don't let the loony into a private forum for discussing the news. Or do you want to establish SN as a public commons?
[05:28:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> pffft. you know squat about what i do when i'm not giving you shit, chicky.
[05:28:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> Julian, i think you and azuma are the loonies. you want i should give you the boot?
[05:29:24] <Julian> If you can, politics is about power not rhetoric
[05:29:54] <AzumaHazuki> you don't think, you emote
[05:30:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> see but, unlike you, i have no desire to silence those whose ideas i disagree with.
[05:30:32] <AzumaHazuki> Julian: he kind of has you there :/ that's one reason i've been saying not to silence people; it means you're sinking to his level
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[05:30:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> s'why there are no supermods judging anyone's moderations for political correctness. just the community using their own mod points as they see fit. you know, democracy.
[05:31:17] <Julian> Or, censorship
[05:32:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> AzumaHazuki, i've had makeup parties with a 12yo girl recently on account of it's a sausage fest around here and she gets bored. fishing and giving you shit ain't the only things i do.
[05:32:10] <AzumaHazuki> we have a problem in the current scheme: posting is more or less unlimited, moderation rate-limited to 10/day, 4/poster
[05:32:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> reckon we need more?
[05:33:15] <Julian> AzumaHazuki, any mitigation measure that actually works they will decry as silencing them. I don't count reactionary crocodile tears as worth anything. They use liberal civility against itself
[05:33:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> daily i mean, not per poster. you ain't gotta do all the moderating yourself.
[05:33:56] <AzumaHazuki> yeah, i'd been making that last point a few times...sociopaths (we see what you and yours are, Uzzard...) view civility as weakness, and their cries for fairness, civility, and politeness are mocking jeers
[05:34:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> Julian, there is nothing liberal about quashing dissent. that is in fact the exact opposite of liberal.
[05:34:10] <Julian> Rate limit heavily downmodded users, 1 comment per day
[05:34:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> negative karma folks already are heavily limited
[05:34:35] <AzumaHazuki> eh, careful with that one. people sock like mad here and that could end up with a bunch of them dropping -35 karma on you
[05:34:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> but there are almost none of them.
[05:34:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> nah, we lost the only verified sockpuppet
[05:34:57] <AzumaHazuki> "verified"
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[05:35:03] <AzumaHazuki> unknown unknowns, remember?
[05:35:05] <Julian> Is the site down now, btw
[05:35:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> ain't hard to spot unless they put all the sneakiness work in before we bothered looking for sneakiness
[05:35:34] <Julian> nevermind, it's working now. Wasn't resolving
[05:36:19] <Julian> I mean, realistically, how many daily active users does the site get?
[05:36:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> page views or commentors?
[05:36:41] <Julian> It can't be more than a few thousand, and maybe a couple hundred that comment?
[05:36:52] <TheMightyBuzzard> as in unique ip page views
[05:37:35] <Julian> Start with that, sure
[05:38:05] <TheMightyBuzzard> neighborhood of that i expect. tens of thousands of uniques monthly i think. don't want to pull up a mysql prompt while drinking to check.
[05:38:19] <Julian> Understandable
[05:38:49] <AzumaHazuki> I would personally put ACs at -1; this would encourage people to register and comment, and do what cheap door locks do: keep out the lazy, stupid, and weak
[05:39:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> veto. i'm one of the lazy.
[05:39:13] <Julian> There's probably 10 terrible people routinely posting bigoted, reactionary, tripe
[05:39:20] <AzumaHazuki> then git gud, scrub
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[05:39:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> Julian, yes, and who those ten are depends on who you ask.
[05:39:34] <AzumaHazuki> you of all people should never be posting AC
[05:39:52] <TheMightyBuzzard> i don't. that'd take an extra button push.
[05:39:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> see above re: lazy
[05:40:29] <AzumaHazuki> well, hell, if you ask anyone with three sparkin' neurons and the basic common decency Madokami gave a bracket fungus: Hallow, J-Mo, Runaway, VLM, Entropy, yourself, NPC-$BIGNUM...
[05:40:40] <AzumaHazuki> exaeta
[05:40:47] <AzumaHazuki> Eth
[05:41:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> Julian, see, i'd pick entirely different people if i had to make a list of ten the site would be better off without
[05:41:36] <Julian> Do I make the list? I'll be disappointed if not
[05:41:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> AzumaHazuki wouldn't be on the list though. we have too much fun.
[05:42:01] <TheMightyBuzzard> nah. you don't say idiotic shit to me often enough.
[05:42:19] <Julian> Usually just downmod I think
[05:42:43] <AzumaHazuki> you'd pick different people, but that's because you don't have the morals of a whelk
[05:42:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> honestly, i like having people around who disagree with me.
[05:42:56] <AzumaHazuki> it's clear as day what you are though
[05:43:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> the very model of a modern major general?
[05:43:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> batman?
[05:43:45] <Julian> At some point disagreement for its own sake is just wanking. "I want to breath clean air" and "I want to pollute the air without limit" aren't equal sides of an argument
[05:43:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> Julian, i really don't downmod much myself. i mostly +1 Funny people.
[05:44:36] <AzumaHazuki> and some things are not up for debate. when you deny someone else's human rights, there is no "both sides" to be had and fuck any sealioning freezepeaching shitgibbon who thinks there is
[05:44:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> Julian, true but you can't see the difference between i want to pollute without limit and i want to pollute a negligible amount for massive gains for humanity.
[05:45:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> AzumaHazuki, i disagree
[05:45:44] <Julian> No, that's still wrong because you define reserve a parochial and unsupported definition of "negligible"
[05:45:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> you're not the arbiter of what is right for humanity. humanity gets a say.
[05:45:50] <AzumaHazuki> you would disagree, yes
[05:45:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> all of it
[05:46:12] <AzumaHazuki> and there, Uzzard, is your problem: stolen concept fallacy.
[05:46:21] <Julian> I definitely agree with getting rid of counter-majoritarian aspects of the government like the Senate and the Electoral College ;)
[05:46:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> Julian, it's not wrong, you're just unwilling to even discuss what negligible means.
[05:46:36] <AzumaHazuki> the part of humanity that says other parts of humanity aren't human does not get a say an you can go right to Hell with them
[05:47:04] <Julian> ^yeah
[05:47:05] <TheMightyBuzzard> yeah, you would. tyranny of the masses is still tyranny though.
[05:47:21] <AzumaHazuki> and tyranny of the minority is still tyranny though
[05:47:25] <Julian> pff, you can't have it both ways buddy
[05:47:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> AzumaHazuki, you just dehumanized me while saying dehumanizing folks is wrong
[05:47:57] <AzumaHazuki> no, i did not
[05:48:03] <AzumaHazuki> you are human, and this is why i attack you
[05:48:28] <AzumaHazuki> because you are cutting off the tree branch you're sitting on to make that argument. you are divided against yourself. from a contradiction, everything arises
[05:48:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> the hell i can't. we built things the way we did so radical nutjobs could not rewrite the nation inside one election cycle at 51% of the voters.
[05:48:54] <AzumaHazuki> yeah, they did it with less than 50% this time
[05:49:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> AzumaHazuki, you attack me because you hate that i don't agree with your batshit loony ideas completely. you attack absolutely everyone that doesn't.
[05:49:34] <Julian> We built things the way we did as a devil's compromise with slavers who should have gotten the ax instead
[05:49:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> and you attack harder every time i fail to give a shit.
[05:50:05] <AzumaHazuki> no, I attack you because, again, you are a walking contradiction and are willfully sawing off the branch you sit on for shitz'n'giggles. not even principles. the fucking proud boys are better than you in that regard even
[05:50:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> Julian, learn history. you're extremely wrong.
[05:50:50] <AzumaHazuki> don't misunderstand, i don't intend to "convert" you. i understand that you are a lost cause, someone who is trying as hard as he can to throw his own humanity away. it won't work, and you'll find out just how badly it didn't upon death
[05:51:11] <Julian> Learn history outside a Christian madrassa, I'm right
[05:51:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> AzumaHazuki, that would be your opinion. mine says your policies would do a thousand times more harm but i don't call you evil for believing them, just an idiot.
[05:51:28] <AzumaHazuki> you don't even know my policy positions, and some of them might surprise you
[05:51:35] <AzumaHazuki> i bet you never suspected i carry a .22 for one
[05:51:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> Julian, no, you're not. nobody gave much of a shit about slavery over here in the late 1700s
[05:51:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> knew that
[05:51:55] <AzumaHazuki> yes, because i told people once
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[05:52:09] <AzumaHazuki> you would have been up my ass with "gun-grabber" at 120dB beforehand had you not known
[05:52:43] <AzumaHazuki> and, naive as this may be, i believe capitalism can be a sustainable and positive force. i am not a socialist. you, of course, think I am
[05:52:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> but you're also adamant that the government should take huge percentages of anyone who's not poor's income and redistribute it how YOU want it redistributed.
[05:52:54] <Julian> Wow, most people were shitty in the 1700s? I hadn't heard
[05:53:08] <AzumaHazuki> it works amazingly in 31 of the 32 developed countries on the planet
[05:53:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> you're a socialist, just a wishy-washy one
[05:53:39] <AzumaHazuki> that's pure capitalism. it costs less to prevent harm than fix it later
[05:53:40] <Julian> The US revolution was a bourgeois revolution of upper class whites, of course it was racist from its core
[05:54:07] <TheMightyBuzzard> Julian, no, slavery was not shitty in the late 1700s. morality changes over time and you cannot judge yesterday's populace by today's morality.
[05:54:13] <AzumaHazuki> you're another shortsighted idiot who knows the (upfront) price of everything and the value of nothing. what a failure of imagination and humanity
[05:54:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> AzumaHazuki, you'd know better if you ever listened instead of thinking of what you're going to say next.
[05:55:02] <AzumaHazuki> oh horseshit. you have virtually nothing to say and i've heard it all over and over and over again
[05:55:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> Julian, the entire nation was extremely racist back then.
[05:55:11] <Julian> There were abolitionists in the time of Jesus Christ. Slavery has always been wrong.
[05:55:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> not a little bit, extremely.
[05:55:25] <AzumaHazuki> you're a tiny dogmatic little mind with a couple of idees fixees that inform everything you think say and do
[05:55:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> white wasn't a thing. you had to be the right kind of white.
[05:55:49] <AzumaHazuki> indeed. now go out there and tell today's white supremacists that instead of us
[05:55:53] <TheMightyBuzzard> AzumaHazuki, pick me one single thing i'm dogmatic over and unwilling to discuss.
[05:56:01] <AzumaHazuki> "all taxation is theft"
[05:56:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> AzumaHazuki, what, all four of them?
[05:56:24] <AzumaHazuki> "all four of them?" Go to Hell you ignorant shitstain
[05:56:40] <TheMightyBuzzard> and? it is. that doesn't change the fact that it's generally necessary to have income for the government.
[05:56:57] <AzumaHazuki> and your "necessary evils" (the military and fuck all else) are very telling
[05:57:17] <AzumaHazuki> you're another soldier-sniffing protofascist without the balls to act on your impulses
[05:57:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> get out more. meet the people you're condemning to hell without speaking to.
[05:57:29] <AzumaHazuki> they speak for themselves
[05:57:44] <AzumaHazuki> again: no "both sidesing" with people who deny other humans are human
[05:58:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> you never speak to them. you'd paint millions of people as white supremacists if you wouldn't get laughed out of town by even the other progtards.
[05:58:28] <AzumaHazuki> there is going to be a housing crisis in hell, metaphorically speaking, in a few decades. what kind of lives you're all gonna reincarnate back into is anyone's guess but i'll bet dark skin plays into it
[05:59:01] <Julian> Insects dying from climate change
[05:59:19] <TheMightyBuzzard> you are straight up, the most stereotyping, hateful person on the site. that includes the jew haters.
[05:59:29] <AzumaHazuki> no, you just feel I am
[05:59:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, you hate more people and refuse to even try to get to know them. you are OBJECTIVELY more hateful.
[05:59:52] <AzumaHazuki> see, i hate ideas, and i am disgusted with people who hold certain ideas. there is a difference
[06:00:08] <Julian> Yeah no, they are not
[06:00:13] <AzumaHazuki> Uzzard, some ideas do not countenance debate. why is this difficult for you?
[06:00:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> because you are wrong
[06:00:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> all ideas are open to debate unless you're unable to say why you disagree
[06:00:51] <AzumaHazuki> no, i'm not. it's a self-defeating paradox, the very paradox of tolerance itself, to debate for the sake of humanity the idea that some humans are not humans
[06:01:02] <AzumaHazuki> conflicting axioms cannot coexist
[06:01:15] <TheMightyBuzzard> i can. and i can win. why can't you?
[06:01:36] <AzumaHazuki> you can "win" the way that idiot country music star lecturing an empty chair wins
[06:01:42] <Julian> Karl Popper...
[06:01:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> hell, i can even do it with a guy who's been on a twenty minute i hate niggers rant. and have.
[06:02:12] <AzumaHazuki> what angle do i need to turn this at, Uzzard? two mutually contradictory axioms produce absurdity. anything and everything arises from this contradiction
[06:02:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> you just want to dehumanize them so you don't have to justify your bullshit
[06:02:40] <AzumaHazuki> the projection is amazing. if i thought you weren't human i wouldn't be wasting my virtual breath
[06:02:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> i mean, come on, it's standard in every dictatorial handbook
[06:02:46] <Julian> Gaslight Obstruct Project
[06:02:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> yes you would. you like to argue.
[06:03:03] <AzumaHazuki> if you wanna throw away your human card that bad, go ahead. you'll just be a deluded human, the philosophical equivalent of Otherkin
[06:03:29] <AzumaHazuki> if you wish to exile yourself from society that thoroughly then fuck off into the woods somewhere
[06:03:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> Julian, get over yourself. i don't say shit i don't mean outside of a joke.
[06:04:01] <TheMightyBuzzard> deal with others having differing opinions or life is going to suck all the way through.
[06:04:03] <Julian> I don't think you're aware that you're doing it
[06:04:10] <AzumaHazuki> you cannot escape what you are, Uzzard, no matter how hard you try. and why you wallow, revel even, in your brokenness is beyond me
[06:04:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> you can't gaslight and be unaware
[06:04:27] <Julian> Oh hell yeah you can
[06:04:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> and nothing i've said tonight could be construed as projection
[06:04:43] <Julian> *wanking hand motion*
[06:04:46] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, you can't. you can be the tool of someone who is but you cannot do it yourself.
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[06:05:09] <AzumaHazuki> fucking everything you've said can be, with the exception of the stuff that's just internally self-contradictory
[06:05:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> Julian, support your claims then. point out an example
[06:05:40] <TheMightyBuzzard> AzumaHazuki, you never back your shit up so i'm gonna ignore your input on this argument.
[06:05:51] <AzumaHazuki> as the meme says, we live in a society. all of us. it's global. that means all humans. to countenance the idea that some humans are not humans strikes at the genetic underpinnings of this truth. it is nonsense, logically contradictory
[06:05:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> you only attack and think that makes your position correct
[06:05:58] <Julian> I'm not going to convince you why you should care about other people, and there's not a sufficient audience here to persuade. I won't bother
[06:06:06] <AzumaHazuki> oh fuck you, you weak little shit. you know you're getting your ass handed to you
[06:06:23] <TheMightyBuzzard> Julian, no, you're going to assume i don't care about other people because it would fuck up your world view if i did
[06:06:33] <AzumaHazuki> you can no longer make wrongness right by ignoring people pointing out it's wrong than you can blow out the sun by writing "night" on your cell wall
[06:06:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> AzumaHazuki, you never support your own position. ever.
[06:06:58] <AzumaHazuki> and that IS what you're trying to do. this is solipsism. you are trapped in your skull
[06:07:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> not in one argument we've had.
[06:07:12] <AzumaHazuki> just because you can't or won't understand doesn't make that the case
[06:07:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> it's your job to convince. that's what arguing is.
[06:07:51] <AzumaHazuki> nothing will convince you, because you have decided not to be convinced. you are as much a fideist as John Calvin
[06:08:09] <AzumaHazuki> your body lives, but your mind is walking dead. you strangled it.
[06:08:13] <Julian> Politics is about power, I honestly don't care about convincing reactionaries. They'll be defeated before they can be turned.
[06:08:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, because i can answer every damned objection you have. because i've already thought of them.
[06:08:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> Julian, you say reactionary like it's a bad word. it's not and you're a pretentious shithead for thinking it is.
[06:09:19] <TheMightyBuzzard> AzumaHazuki, see? attacking. never, ever, supporting your own position.
[06:09:22] <AzumaHazuki> "reactionary" doesn't even begin to cover this kind of autofellating solipsism
[06:09:29] <Julian> It's definitely a bad word and it should get you a pint glass smashed in your face if you speak this way at a bar
[06:09:31] <AzumaHazuki> yeah, cry harder you tone-trolling dipshit
[06:09:34] <Julian> That's praxis
[06:10:04] <AzumaHazuki> hah, he'd never try this shit in meatspace, not unless he had a ring of like-"minded" buddies to cluster around
[06:10:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> Julian, you're an idiot. the overwhelming majority of humanity are reactionaries. they want nothing so much as for tomorrow to be more or less like today and when someone fucks with that they get pissed off.
[06:11:02] <AzumaHazuki> that's conservatism, not reactionary
[06:11:10] <Julian> Don't project your failure of imagination on the better part of humanity
[06:11:16] <AzumaHazuki> ^ this, also
[06:11:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> resistance to change is built into humanity. only a severe narcissist would think themselves superior to humanity and fit to guide them all.
[06:11:41] <AzumaHazuki> ...aaand yet,here you are
[06:12:13] <Julian> Naturalistic fallacy *rap airhorn sound effect*
[06:12:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> AzumaHazuki, you're getting boring. support your position.
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[06:12:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> Julian, and yet it's true.
[06:12:43] <AzumaHazuki> LOL, I'm the boring one
[06:12:51] <Julian> *airhorn continues*
[06:12:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> yes. you contribute nothing but angry noise.
[06:12:58] <AzumaHazuki> you don't even know what the fuck words mean
[06:13:18] <AzumaHazuki> "wants the status quo" is conservatism. reactionary means burn it all down and go back to $TIME
[06:13:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> there is no thought in your part of this conversation, only anger and insult.
[06:13:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> AzumaHazuki, the difference between the two is twenty years of age.
[06:13:44] <AzumaHazuki> keep telling yourself that. the message ain't wrong just 'cause you don't like the envelope, anger doesn't mean wrong
[06:14:00] <AzumaHazuki> and, again, like Julian said, don't project your failures onto people
[06:14:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> AzumaHazuki, you don't even say the message
[06:14:16] <AzumaHazuki> yes, I did, over and over and over again. you willfully refuse to hear it
[06:14:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> you say the slogan and then go around telling people they're going to hell. your participation is empty.
[06:16:01] <TheMightyBuzzard> fucking hell, i'm drunk and i can support my position better than you. you suck all of the ass at debate.
[06:16:12] <AzumaHazuki> don't project your failures onto me
[06:16:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> you don't support your position AT ALL
[06:16:27] <AzumaHazuki> even when you're sober you can't support yourself
[06:16:30] <TheMightyBuzzard> you refuse
[06:16:37] <Julian> well I'm in a k hole and doing better IMHO
[06:16:50] <AzumaHazuki> whenever you get your shit wrecked you snark and run away. we've all seen it, all over the forum, and even ACs call you out on it
[06:16:53] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Using Huawei in UK 5G Network 'Madness', Says US - https://sylnt.us
[06:16:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> Julian, you're refusing to debate as well when asked for specifics.
[06:17:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> AzumaHazuki, support your shit or stfu. you're boring the hell out of me telling you this over and over.
[06:17:30] <AzumaHazuki> yeah, see, this shit is one of the main reasons I wouldn't mind if SN just disappeared entirely and would do it myself if I could
[06:17:31] <Julian> I reject your specific premises
[06:17:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> leave then
[06:17:43] <Julian> Make me
[06:17:44] <AzumaHazuki> fuck you, no
[06:17:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> stay then
[06:17:57] <Julian> I might
[06:18:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> i don't give a shit which you do, either of you. i just wish either of you had taken debate classes in school.
[06:18:55] <AzumaHazuki> Bytram, I hope you check your scrollback later. This is the face of the problem this site has. You're looking at him right here.
[06:18:58] <Julian> I double majored in polisci and English, thanks
[06:19:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> then your professors need their creds pulled for passing you.
[06:19:24] <AzumaHazuki> When you do something approaching a debate i'll debate. all you do is sit there and go "fuck you you're wrong"
[06:19:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> support your position or at the very least pick which of mine you believe to be wrong and i'll be happy to tell you why you are in fact the one who is wrong.
[06:19:57] <AzumaHazuki> your entire worldview is built on your own solipsism. there is no having a debate with that. you're the proverbial immovable object
[06:19:59] <Julian> Nah. But my god, so many engineering majors need to be sent back for remedial writing courses bases on the students I had to teach at the writing center
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[06:20:33] <AzumaHazuki> Uzzard, I get it. I hold no hope of ever changing what passes for your mind. Only hideous suffering will do that, in this life or the next
[06:20:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> AzumaHazuki, projection. i explain in great detail when you ask me about my positions. we sat here several hours one night doing just that last month.
[06:20:48] <AzumaHazuki> your adamantine ego needs to be broken. it will happen, now or in a few decades.
[06:20:53] <TheMightyBuzzard> you have never, not ever, not even once, supported a position of yours though.
[06:21:13] <AzumaHazuki> again: stop projecting. you don't support yours, you state them as axioms
[06:21:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, when you bitch about them i answer your objections.
[06:21:40] <TheMightyBuzzard> check the logs
[06:22:08] <AzumaHazuki> i know nothing i do will change you. that's fine. all i'm doing is trying to burn these patterns into you. they'll come to "life" when the time is right
[06:22:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> you are wrong on this and it's in the logs.
[06:22:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, no excuses. you want your position to be taken seriously, support it.
[06:22:39] <AzumaHazuki> again...your ego is the problem. this life or the next holds the events necessary to shatter it. you'll suffer, but from that suffering something better will come
[06:22:46] <Julian> I defend my positions, and I earn many fake internet points that I redeem for IRC smugness
[06:22:49] <AzumaHazuki> there is no arguing productively with a willful solipsist
[06:23:01] <TheMightyBuzzard> and back we go to "you're going to hell!!!!"
[06:23:07] <TheMightyBuzzard> that is not an argument
[06:23:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> Julian, ha!
[06:23:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> Julian++
[06:23:21] <Bender> karma - julian: 2
[06:23:24] <AzumaHazuki> you are going to hell. not a place, so much as a state. it is not an argument as such because there is no arguing with a diehard solipsist
[06:23:42] <AzumaHazuki> you will suffer as long as you need to. could be hours, could be decades, who knows
[06:24:09] <TheMightyBuzzard> AzumaHazuki, every time you say "you are going to hell", everyone knows you've run out of ability to defend your position and lost the argument
[06:24:19] <Julian> naaah nothing happens when you die, we have to make reactionaries suffer in THIS life
[06:24:21] <AzumaHazuki> that's not an argument, that's a prediction
[06:24:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> yes, i know
[06:24:45] <AzumaHazuki> Julian, how I wish I could believe that! it would be so much easier on me. But I've seen and experienced too many things to the contrary
[06:25:10] <Julian> AzumaHazuki, let's do both then
[06:25:15] <TheMightyBuzzard> Julian, you guys are too funny to make me suffer.
[06:25:34] <AzumaHazuki> oh, don't misunderstand...it'll be you making you suffer, not me
[06:25:52] <TheMightyBuzzard> i mean you had to come up with "progressives" because you were in direct conflict with the ideals of liberalism
[06:26:15] <AzumaHazuki> i've tried to explain this before: what you will probably perceive as "hellfire" due to a Christian-ish cultural surrounding is nothing more than clear, undeluded sight directed inward
[06:26:35] <AzumaHazuki> there will be no more illusions and no more hiding. you'll see it all, everything, your relation to it, and what you did and failed to do
[06:26:40] <TheMightyBuzzard> AzumaHazuki, i love life, darlin. friends, family, fishin... hell, i even like my neighbors.
[06:26:58] <AzumaHazuki> again, you miss the point...
[06:27:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> nothing you can say or do will make me enjoy it one whit less.
[06:27:05] <Julian> Subject to a melanin assay
[06:27:27] <AzumaHazuki> you actually think i'm trying to make you enjoy those things less?
[06:27:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> Julian, think again. my town's half black and there ain't white neighborhoods n black ones.
[06:27:46] <Julian> Oh ok so it's more about The Jews
[06:27:49] <AzumaHazuki> no, no. this is just a prediction, is all. and every time you respond you hammer it home further
[06:28:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> AzumaHazuki, given your druthers, yes. i think you'd take half of what is in my wallet every week and make me work twice as hard for what i have now.
[06:28:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> Julian, what's oj got to do with it?
[06:28:36] <Julian> I'd take an extra dime from you to raise your blood pressure about losing it
[06:28:38] <AzumaHazuki> good Lord, no, give my druthers I'd just give you exactlty the end result of what you claim to believe: drop you off naked and unarmed far away from civilization
[06:28:44] <AzumaHazuki> and let you do it all alone from there
[06:28:55] <AzumaHazuki> since, you know, no one should take from anyone else to survive
[06:29:22] <AzumaHazuki> no taxes. no social contract. just you and reality
[06:29:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> if you think that's what i believe, you've done some serious mental editing. we've had conversations where i've gotten much, much more detailed than that.
[06:29:51] <AzumaHazuki> this is the core of your beliefs
[06:30:03] <AzumaHazuki> you even tried that "asocial" shit Runaway pulled
[06:30:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> and? the core of my beliefs also says "adjust as necessary to reality"
[06:30:22] <Julian> Even that's not isolated from the world. You cannot atomize yourself from the universe
[06:30:33] <AzumaHazuki> not the universe, just society
[06:30:46] <AzumaHazuki> just him and his, heh...wits. Bear Gryllis II
[06:31:07] <Julian> You can't atomize yourself from society either, at any scale
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[06:31:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> dude, where'd you even get enough straw for a strawman that big? your neighbors are going to call the fire marshal on you.
[06:31:37] <AzumaHazuki> no taxes. your signature wiped off the social contract. just you and all of reality. no one to tell you you didn't "build that" because everything you have you'll have to build
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[06:31:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> yeah, mental editing.
[06:31:52] <Julian> Pick a scale, from the quantum, to the sociological, we are all connected and we are born into a responsibility to each other
[06:31:55] <AzumaHazuki> it'llbe worse than fucking Gentoo :D
[06:32:02] <AzumaHazuki> LFS for Reality
[06:32:09] <Julian> Which is why I am an anti-natalist
[06:32:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> Julian, we're not responsible for anyone we don't choose to be responsible for. nor should we be.
[06:32:54] <AzumaHazuki> pssh, expecting this solipsistic walking Cluster B personality disorder to understand that is futile.
[06:33:06] <AzumaHazuki> someone shattered the glass in his mirror neurons :v
[06:33:07] <Julian> Just by existing as a being made of matter, you are connected to every other piece of matter. Sorry to break the news to you
[06:33:30] <TheMightyBuzzard> AzumaHazuki, you plan on supporting your loony tunes tonight or you just going to keep attacking that strawman?
[06:33:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> Julian, so?
[06:33:51] <AzumaHazuki> you're stuffed with straw? i thought that was feathers
[06:34:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> having protons does not obligate me to pay for some guy's lunch because he is too.
[06:34:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> pizza
[06:34:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> being similar on any level does not obligate me to support anyone i have not chosen to.
[06:35:05] <AzumaHazuki> i think his point is that you didn't appear out of the aether. your history, social milieu, family, and surroundings make you what you are. but the attitude you have is, among other things, profoundly ungrateful. maybe not even aware of this enough to be ungrateful...
[06:35:16] <Sulla> What did you order. Roommate just ordered pizza
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[06:35:34] <AzumaHazuki> everything is build on top of older everything, is his point. you didn't just pop out like Athena out of Zeus' forehead fully formed
[06:35:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> AzumaHazuki, you've not heard me be ungrateful to anyone who's contributed
[06:35:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> i show my gratitude every day by giving money to those who aid me
[06:36:05] <TheMightyBuzzard> or by aiding them in return
[06:36:26] <AzumaHazuki> so does pretty much anything more complex than C. elegans; congrats, you've discovered reciprocity
[06:36:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> and yet you'll forget that next time we have this discussion in favor of your strawman
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[06:36:58] <chromas> Is Rust more complex than C?
[06:37:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> chromas, nah. not once you grok ownership.
[06:37:29] <AzumaHazuki> christ, you're not even close...
[06:38:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> AzumaHazuki, it's your standard playbook. attack. if attacking doesn't work, attack a strawman. if that doesn't work, say i'm going to hell.
[06:38:23] <TheMightyBuzzard> support your shit, weakass.
[06:38:25] <AzumaHazuki> you...are "going to hell" if you die in this state of mind
[06:38:32] <AzumaHazuki> that's, again, not an argument
[06:39:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> support ANY of your shit then
[06:39:21] <AzumaHazuki> the one time you finally broke down and used the specific phrase "necessary evil," the only thing you admitted under that umbrella was the military
[06:39:31] <AzumaHazuki> which is...so shortsighted and animalistic as to be almost funny
[06:39:41] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh i've mentioned others
[06:39:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> you just have that mental editing going on.
[06:39:59] <AzumaHazuki> horseshit
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[06:40:26] <AzumaHazuki> but see, even that one single exception there is a "black swan" for your "ALL TAXATION IS THEFT HURRRR" argument. you were uncomfortable as hell admitting that much even
[06:40:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> but, no, you will never convince me that the state needs to be mommy and daddy and we should be treated like children
[06:40:41] <AzumaHazuki> talk about a strawman
[06:41:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> i'm not uncomfortable stating anything. if i believe it, i say it. i give not a fuck.
[06:41:21] <AzumaHazuki> i don't believe "the state" needs to be in loco parentis. what I do belive is that there are human rights, things that emerge from who and what we are, that any successful society needs to uphold
[06:41:41] <TheMightyBuzzard> the ONLY belief i have any mild issue with is i can't bring myself to hate the "mow your lawn or we will and bill you" policy in my town.
[06:41:54] <AzumaHazuki> how shallow and self-centered
[06:41:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> yeah, and you believe comfort is a human right
[06:42:04] <AzumaHazuki> er, no i don't. stop strawmanning
[06:42:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> you've said as much many, many times.
[06:42:26] <AzumaHazuki> what i do fucking believe is that objects don't have priority over people
[06:42:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> "starving people aren't free" ring a bell?
[06:42:45] <AzumaHazuki> that is precisely true though
[06:42:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, it in fact is not but that's another matter
[06:42:59] <AzumaHazuki> when you're starving, you can't pursue "life liberty and the pursuit of happiness"
[06:43:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> that is a comfort issue not a liberty one.
[06:43:06] <AzumaHazuki> Julian: are you seeing this?
[06:43:11] <AzumaHazuki> seriously, look at this shithead
[06:43:41] <TheMightyBuzzard> yes, you can. people have been doing so for hundreds of thousands of years.
[06:43:45] <Julian> Fucking FDR articulated this like 60 years ago
[06:44:02] <Julian> Now who is ignorant of history
[06:44:11] <AzumaHazuki> this is the key choke point here. this is where the core of his worldview, the utter solipsistic selfishness, is exposed
[06:44:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> you think i worship at the feet of FDR?
[06:44:36] <Julian> I think you should have heard of him
[06:44:55] <AzumaHazuki> and this, Uzzard, is why I hope you starve, suffer chronic illness and homelessness, all the things that will break you to pieces so you understand finally. because your kind only learn through personal suffering
[06:45:00] <AzumaHazuki> this isn't hate. it's pity and sorrow
[06:45:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> who said i haven't? i just don't give a shit about what he had to say because our beliefs are in direct conflict.
[06:45:18] <Sulla> "Agree with me or die" typical Azuma
[06:45:32] <AzumaHazuki> Sulla: i don't want him to die, shithead. I want him to live
[06:45:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> AzumaHazuki, i have. so when i tell you you're full of shit, i'm speaking from a point of authority.
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[06:45:44] <Julian> Yeah you're team Moloch, we get it
[06:45:51] <AzumaHazuki> you clearly have not, if this is what you took from your experience Uzzard
[06:46:15] <TheMightyBuzzard> what i took from it is keep your hands out of my shit because i worked hard to get it.
[06:46:29] <AzumaHazuki> now it may be you're actually physically miswired, in which case i owe you an apology and ought to stop belaboring the point. you can't get blood from a stone after all
[06:46:35] <Julian> No one ever earned anything alone
[06:46:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> bullshit
[06:46:52] <Julian> Nope, you didn't
[06:46:56] <inz> Following this discussion has made me wish I liked popcorn.
[06:46:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> yep, i did
[06:47:04] <Julian> No, you never did. Not one thing.
[06:47:10] <AzumaHazuki> no, not bullshit, Uzzard. no one, and this includes our primate ancestors
[06:47:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> inz, makes me wish i wasn't starting to sober up
[06:47:22] <AzumaHazuki> do you think you emerged fully formed from the zero point field?
[06:47:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> yes, i did. all of the things.
[06:47:28] <AzumaHazuki> ...ahahahahahaha
[06:47:36] <inz> TheMightyBuzzard, there's a cure for that
[06:48:09] <AzumaHazuki> motherfucker, this is why I would drop you off bare-ass naked in the woods somewhere 200km from human civilization. you believe this? show it. support your position, as someone said recently
[06:48:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> AzumaHazuki, Julian is at least being humorous in his silly argument. yours is just stupid.
[06:48:22] <Julian> You are a fantastically lucky descendant of a series of fantastically lucky self-replicating organisms that are a stupendisouly unlikely accident in the universe and you should have some god damn humility in that condition
[06:48:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> and? luck does not carry an obligation.
[06:49:13] * AzumaHazuki watches the point go sailing over Uzzard's ugly carrion-molesting head around Mach 2.2 or so
[06:49:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> granting you that luck exists in the first place for the sake of argument. most of what you'd call luck i'd argue is not.
[06:49:53] * chromas rolls 12
[06:49:56] <Julian> Oh, well, now I'm convinced
[06:50:03] <AzumaHazuki> you could argue that but you'd be wrong
[06:50:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> Julian, you're being silly and i'm still drunk. if you want to do this sober i'd be happy to.
[06:50:45] <AzumaHazuki> if any single one of your ancestors had been unlucky, one stray bullet or aggressive virus or spoiled meat pie or pissy sabre-toothed cat...you wouldn't be here
[06:50:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> there are no stray bullets
[06:51:06] <Julian> I'm stacking K weed and booze, fight me any time
[06:51:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> there are no stray anything.
[06:51:09] <Sulla> Luck very exists. Met the guy who wrote one of the first programs for fractional overnight back transactions. Bumped
[06:51:13] <AzumaHazuki> ...not even you are ignorant enough to believe that, Uzzard
[06:51:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> #fite Julian
[06:51:16] <MrPlow> #fite restricted to the channel #fite
[06:51:19] <TheMightyBuzzard> doh!
[06:51:25] <Sulla> into a microsoft exec in a airport bathroom and got a contract
[06:51:44] <AzumaHazuki> "no stray bullets." The just world fallacy has eaten you alive
[06:51:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> AzumaHazuki, i'm not speaking opinion. i'm speaking fact.
[06:51:55] <Sulla> Decades of skill it took him to get there, but chance played a roll
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[06:52:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> everything in the universe was determined the instant it was created. every particle's path through time.
[06:52:29] <Julian> No, again, wrong
[06:52:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> #roll 4d400
[06:52:36] <MrPlow> pass 1: 665
[06:52:52] <TheMightyBuzzard> #smake Julian
[06:52:53] * MrPlow smakes Julian upside the head with a donkey dong
[06:52:54] <AzumaHazuki> determined by whom, exactly? careful not to get metaphor mixed up with reality. "laws" of nature are descriptive, not proscriptive
[06:53:16] <AzumaHazuki> and they are merely our best guess crack at how reality, as we can perceive it, works
[06:53:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> AzumaHazuki, beats me. i'm talking out my ass because i'm not a determinist. and you still haven't offered a counterargument.
[06:53:52] <AzumaHazuki> you could cut off everything after the word ass there and be correct
[06:54:04] <FatPhil> and our best best guess (QFT) under the most popular of the interpretations says that they're strictly non-deterministic.
[06:54:04] <Julian> Starting with JUST the books I can see from where I am you could read: The Beginning of Infinity, Gravitation, and A Brief History of Time
[06:54:30] <AzumaHazuki> good grief, this guy would have been a perfect Calvinist inquisitor 500 years ago
[06:54:45] <AzumaHazuki> the only reason you're not a Dominionist is you think you yourself are God
[06:55:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> Julian, have. i'm just shitposting to wind AzumaHazuki up by demonstrating that she never supports her shit.
[06:55:30] <Julian> She seems to be doing better than you
[06:55:45] <AzumaHazuki> horsehockey. you got cornered and said some stuff you didn't feel comfortable admitting to and are trying to bravado your way out of it
[06:55:59] <AzumaHazuki> you seriously think we're all as dumb as or dumber than you, else you wouldn't try that
[06:55:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> she's attacking a position i don't even hold while utterly not even mentioning why the contra might be correct.
[06:56:07] <TheMightyBuzzard> she lost before she even started.
[06:56:08] <AzumaHazuki> look who's fucking talking
[06:56:32] <AzumaHazuki> so let's go back to this thing you said about "everything in the universe was determined the instant it was created. every particle's path through time."
[06:56:36] <AzumaHazuki> do you actually believe this?
[06:56:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> i ALWAYS defend my positions. always.
[06:57:02] <AzumaHazuki> the Brave Sir Robin dance is not a defense
[06:57:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> that's not brave sir robin. that's mocking your non-arguing ass
[06:57:34] <AzumaHazuki> true or false? "everything in the universe was determined the instant it was created. every particle's path through time."
[06:57:44] <AzumaHazuki> Support Your Position (TM)
[06:57:46] <TheMightyBuzzard> i'm of the fuck if i know, but i doubt it position. humans at the very least cannot function as if time is predetermined.
[06:57:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> so it doesn't matter if it is or not.
[06:58:04] <AzumaHazuki> then. why. did. you. say. this.
[06:58:09] <AzumaHazuki> that is not arguing in good faith
[06:58:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> to. fuck. with. you.
[06:58:21] <AzumaHazuki> kiss my entire ass starting and ending at the brown eye
[06:58:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> to show you that you always attack and never support your own shit.
[06:58:27] <AzumaHazuki> and today was taco tuesday
[06:58:50] <Julian> Always attacking is fine, politically, I recommend it
[06:59:00] <chromas> Needs moar clap emoji
[06:59:18] <Sulla> Emoji have gone too far
[06:59:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> Julian, yeah, it's pretty good politically. rationally it's a null program.
[06:59:41] <AzumaHazuki> so what i see here is Julian (and myself) pointing out that you didn't "earn" shit all alone, showing you the biological, historical, and sociological reasons why not, and you going "nuh uh you're wrong so neener neener neener."
[06:59:51] <AzumaHazuki> and yet...we're the ones not supporting our positions...?
[06:59:53] <Julian> I care about power, not rationality. Who cares what is rational if everyone has healthcare without going bankrupt
[07:00:04] * chromas assumes Position 67
[07:00:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> AzumaHazuki, no, you're seeing me say i've already made that case repeatedly and don't feel like doing it while drunk. and then fucking with you.
[07:00:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> i did offer to do it tomorrow though
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[07:00:39] <AzumaHazuki> so you're full of shit and empty of ideas then. and no, no you have not made that case
[07:00:53] <AzumaHazuki> and i doubt you ever will, as it's counterfactual to humanity
[07:01:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> fuck you, i'm not googling that up out of all the comments on the site while drunk. nor am i opening a mysql prompt on the prod db.
[07:01:51] <AzumaHazuki> you never proved your case even back then. you did the same thing you always do, which is get pissy and snarky and then run away
[07:02:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> i'll be happy to spank julian upside the head in that argument tomorrow though.
[07:02:29] <AzumaHazuki> Hah! He'll shove his boot so far up your ass he'll step in the last thing your maternal grandfather ate
[07:02:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> sure sure
[07:02:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> attack some more. it's all you know how to do.
[07:03:01] <AzumaHazuki> when the attacks are true, why not?
[07:03:14] <AzumaHazuki> you don't like that a cootie-infested girrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrl is whooping on you
[07:03:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> irrelevant. you can't do anything else so there's no option.
[07:03:34] <AzumaHazuki> why do I need to do anything else when this works? :)
[07:03:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, it doesn't bother me. it makes me laugh at you.
[07:03:53] <AzumaHazuki> fools die laughing. i don't begrudge you that
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[07:04:15] * TheMightyBuzzard yawns
[07:04:15] * MrPlow flips a Skittle into TheMightyBuzzard's gaping mouth
[07:04:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> how long have i been typing?
[07:04:43] <AzumaHazuki> too long. go to bed already
[07:04:53] <TheMightyBuzzard> suck a dick
[07:05:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> nicotine++ #smoke break
[07:05:03] <Bender> karma - nicotine: 751
[07:05:15] <AzumaHazuki> you do realize that's a segmentation fault don't you?
[07:06:02] * AzumaHazuki wonders if it would be possible for people to argue in shifts and keep this ADHD sperglord going until he drops
[07:06:19] <Cascade> Segmented memory model in 2020?
[07:06:34] <AzumaHazuki> yes. there are some ideas that go in the memory hole
[07:06:50] <AzumaHazuki> one of those is "gay girl sucking a dick."
[07:08:56] <Cascade> I guess that would go into the memory hole. That way it can come back to bite later.
[07:09:04] <Sulla> When you are online you get to be 100% equal. Competing only with ideas. Why with you does it always have to come back to identity?
[07:09:19] <Sulla> Others do it too, and its a shame
[07:10:08] <AzumaHazuki> Stop virtue signalling, Sulla
[07:10:15] <AzumaHazuki> i lost all respect for you months ago.
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[07:11:15] <Sulla> Ohhh gee someone who wants people they disagree with to have their familys die so they "learn a lesson" doesn't respect me. Really showed me
[07:11:24] <Sulla> lol
[07:11:42] <Sulla> You point out you are a gay girl to make a point, then complain someone else is virtue signaling
[07:11:44] <AzumaHazuki> what is it like to be so weak that words hurt you?
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[07:12:00] <chromas> To be fairrrr, her response was about internet dick sucking
[07:12:15] <Sulla> point taken
[07:12:40] <AzumaHazuki> too bad the moral lesson wasn't
[07:12:46] <TheMightyBuzzard> nope, when i get tired i'll say screw you guys and go to bed.
[07:12:50] <chromas> But were she to try, she'd be dereferencing a null pointer
[07:13:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> you didn't support your argument, how do you expect anyone to be convinced by it?
[07:13:37] <AzumaHazuki> projection again
[07:13:59] <AzumaHazuki> Once more: so what i see here is Julian (and myself) pointing out that you didn't "earn" shit all alone, showing you the biological, historical, and sociological reasons why not, and you going "nuh uh you're wrong so neener neener neener."
[07:13:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> show me where you supported it. it's all logged. i'll wait.
[07:15:28] <AzumaHazuki> do you just not read plain fucking english or what?
[07:15:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> Sulla, burger, bacon, double cheese
[07:15:45] <AzumaHazuki> 01:47 < Julian> You are a fantastically lucky descendant of a series of fantastically lucky self-replicating organisms that are a stupendisouly unlikely accident in the universe and you should have some god damn humility in that condition
[07:15:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> julian's your sock puppet now?
[07:16:00] <AzumaHazuki> 01:50 < AzumaHazuki> if any single one of your ancestors had been unlucky, one stray bullet or aggressive virus or spoiled meat pie or pissy sabre-toothed cat...you wouldn't be here
[07:16:11] <AzumaHazuki> no, he and i are arguing the same thing
[07:16:27] <AzumaHazuki> he's way more chill than me (may be the special K?)
[07:16:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> you're not supporting your position, you're arguing random bullshit.
[07:16:45] <Sulla> TheMightyBuzzard, on a pizza?
[07:17:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> being alive or not has nothing to do with debt, moral or material.
[07:17:14] <AzumaHazuki> if you think that's "random bullshit," then you are incapable of arguing on the level necessary to understand the position
[07:17:35] <AzumaHazuki> i've explained the fallacy of the stolen concept to you over and over and over again
[07:17:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> so make an argument that's not pulled out of your crusty ass
[07:17:46] <Julian> Do I need to cosign my own statements?
[07:18:05] <TheMightyBuzzard> Julian, i think so. maybe get them notarized at least.
[07:18:09] <AzumaHazuki> there's no way to dumb this shit down to the bratty kingergarten level your carrion-molesting ass operates on. sorry you're a fucking retard
[07:18:22] <chromas> Sulla: fuck yeah. Cheeseburger pizza
[07:18:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> and there's the attack because you can't support your shit.
[07:18:41] <AzumaHazuki> you did not pop out of the zero-point field. your existence owes everything to factors outside your control
[07:19:15] <AzumaHazuki> had one small thing been different, you could have been disabled or maimed as a child, or contracted some hideous disease
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[07:19:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> my existence is irrelevant and carries no debt. my parents chose to create a child and that is their responsibility not mine.
[07:19:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> and?
[07:19:34] <TheMightyBuzzard> that has nothing to do with anything.
[07:19:57] <Julian> That's the negative assertion of the argument
[07:20:10] <Julian> You can't claim that without implicitly endorsing the positive version
[07:20:29] <AzumaHazuki> the point is that you do not float freely in a state of divine aseity. you are here, and as you are, because of what all your ancestors did, how everyone around you acts, the state of your environment, your specific geopolitical circumstances, etc
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[07:20:45] <AzumaHazuki> you have far, far less effect than you think
[07:20:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> because it's not an argument. it does not address the issue at hand. it skews way the fuck out into left field because she knows she's wrong.
[07:22:31] <AzumaHazuki> you truly do not realize how fragile, conditioned, and transient your beliefs are. change a few things in your history and that version of you would view your current self with utter revulsion
[07:22:34] <TheMightyBuzzard> what my ancestors did or did not do and my circumstances up until i became able to make my own decisions are irrelevant. they were not my responsibility and i owe no debt for them.
[07:22:47] <AzumaHazuki> you operate in the world and milieu their actions created
[07:23:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, i operate on truth. assigning debt to choices i did not make is absurd.
[07:24:30] <inz> I'm having the most fun trying to decode what you're actually arguing about. My best guess the semantics of "earn"
[07:24:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> inz, "you didn't build that"
[07:25:02] <AzumaHazuki> because you are human, there are some things baked into your nature you can't escape
[07:25:13] <Julian> Yeah you definitely build that
[07:25:20] <Julian> I don't care what THAT is
[07:25:23] <inz> TheMightyBuzzard, so, essentially, yes
[07:25:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> they're trying to assign me debt to choices made by others
[07:25:47] <TheMightyBuzzard> Julian, this city
[07:26:05] <Julian> I'm assigning you debt to your soul's existence
[07:26:10] <AzumaHazuki> no, you solipsistic shitstack, we're trying to get it through your head that this asocial "always defect" game-theoretic view you hold is antithetical to your very nature as well as at odds with reality
[07:26:15] <TheMightyBuzzard> #yt K1b8AhIsSYQ
[07:26:16] <MrPlow> https://www.youtube.com -- Starship - We Built This City (Official Music Video)
[07:26:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> AzumaHazuki, strawman
[07:26:42] <chromas> =yt homer simpson we built this city
[07:26:43] <systemd> https://youtube.com - Greatest Hits by Homer Simpson (5:57)
[07:26:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> oooh, chromas wins
[07:27:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> Julian, i don't accept that debt. i had no choice in the matter.
[07:27:35] <AzumaHazuki> you don't even know what words mean. "strawman" is not a get out of jail free card when you don't feel like facing your opponent
[07:28:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> it means assigning positions to me that you'd prefer to argue with than the ones i actually hold
[07:28:47] * chromas offers TheMightyBuzzard some ancestral guilt
[07:28:49] <AzumaHazuki> you can try all you like not to hold them, but the human form and experience comes with certain baggage
[07:28:59] * TheMightyBuzzard prefers ancestral gilt
[07:29:10] <AzumaHazuki> it cares not what you prefer
[07:29:17] <Sulla> Has SN ran an article about neil peart, worlds greatest drummer, dieing?
[07:29:23] <TheMightyBuzzard> nope. not having any. thanks just the same.
[07:29:46] <AzumaHazuki> you have no choice
[07:29:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> i'll take responsibility for what i've done and said but i will not take responsibility or owe debt for anything else.
[07:29:53] <TheMightyBuzzard> watch.
[07:30:07] <AzumaHazuki> oh, you can attempt to run away, not saying you can't try
[07:30:08] * TheMightyBuzzard dances in freedom of bullshit debt
[07:30:12] <chromas> Sulla: seems like we at least had a sub
[07:30:34] <Sulla> mod sub up
[07:30:40] <chromas> I can't find it though
[07:30:49] <AzumaHazuki> i will never be able to comprehend this solipsism
[07:31:08] <AzumaHazuki> you've mentioned ADHD and OCD. Maybe there's more to it than that
[07:31:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> it's simple. i will not take responsibility for choices other people made.
[07:31:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> will not do it.
[07:32:00] <AzumaHazuki> that doesn't insulate you from the blowback
[07:32:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> chromas++ # good yt call
[07:32:11] <Bender> karma - chromas: 276
[07:32:22] <AzumaHazuki> believe me, i'd love to "not take responsibility" for the stupid shit the US government has done, but that's not how it works
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[07:32:50] <TheMightyBuzzard> i didn't say i wouldn't deal with the problems as they stand but i'm not going to accept guilt for things i did not do.
[07:32:53] <chromas> I wonder if PulseAudio can reroute bass to the LFE channel for surround while simultaneously keeping the bass for the headphone jack
[07:33:03] <AzumaHazuki> who says to?
[07:33:32] <Sulla> I can barely get my headphone jack to work as is
[07:33:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> you. you're trying like hell to get me to accept responsibility for shit i had no say in.
[07:34:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> i'll deal with the problems because they need dealt with. i will not be blamed for them though.
[07:34:04] <AzumaHazuki> oh, but you do have some say in it. all choices have ripple effects. do they diminish with degrees of freedom, yes, but no choice is made in vacuum
[07:34:13] <AzumaHazuki> everything we choose to do has effects
[07:34:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, i had no say in the choices of my ancestors.
[07:34:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> i had no say in slavery.
[07:35:03] <AzumaHazuki> that's true, but you DO have a choice in, to use that example, how we modern humans in the present deal in race relations
[07:35:19] <TheMightyBuzzard> sure. but i will not be guided by guilt
[07:35:33] <AzumaHazuki> you don't need to be. you need to be guided by reality
[07:35:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> i will not even accept any guilt.
[07:36:09] <AzumaHazuki> i don't feel guilty over slavery. why and how should or could i? but here and now, i can damn well take into account how race relations work and adjust my behavior
[07:36:20] <AzumaHazuki> they're not the same thing
[07:36:35] * TheMightyBuzzard shurgs
[07:37:53] <AzumaHazuki> no, not "shurg." this is here and now and real
[07:38:05] <AzumaHazuki> and choosing not to choose is still a choice, with its own consequences
[07:38:06] * chromas decides to make a midnight fried cheese sammich
[07:38:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> the problem is, i actually didn't build that shit. my own messes and successes i did build though, because i do not take from others without agreed upon compensation.
[07:38:37] <Sulla> https://www.youtube.com
[07:38:39] <systemd> ^ 03Freewill - Rush
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[07:38:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> the shurg was because you were arguing my argument instead of yours.
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[07:39:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> there is no debt, only a choice on how to deal with going forward.
[07:39:53] <TheMightyBuzzard> Sulla++ #timely tunes
[07:39:53] <Bender> karma - sulla: 20
[07:40:33] <AzumaHazuki> even choices to take--or not--without "agreed upon compensation" still have consequences
[07:40:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> that choice isn't without context but context is not the same as debt or guilt
[07:41:01] <AzumaHazuki> i'm not trying to guilt you. i'm saying take reality into account. always. and that includes the dreaded "privilege"
[07:41:05] <TheMightyBuzzard> yes, but paying negates debt. that's what paying means.
[07:41:35] <AzumaHazuki> debt comes in many forms and money is only one of them
[07:41:53] <TheMightyBuzzard> privilege is bullshit. it's an attempt to reframe "normal" as bad.
[07:42:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> there's no moral debt either if all agreed upon compensation was paid.
[07:43:06] <AzumaHazuki> no, it is not bullshit, nor is it bad. it's a simple acknowledgement that one is more or less close to "default" and for this reason has more or fewer problems
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[07:43:20] <AzumaHazuki> privilege just is. it's not good or evil
[07:44:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, it's reframing to change the narrative. which is bullshit. normal is not privileged. normal is baseline.
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[07:44:54] <AzumaHazuki> good grief, you can't be that stupid
[07:45:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> you can though, apparently
[07:45:32] <AzumaHazuki> being other-than-baseline makes life harder, do you not get this? people who are other-than-baseline face problems "normals" don't. and this has to be taken into account when making choices
[07:46:02] <AzumaHazuki> there is a very good reason I'm not out in meatspace to most people. life is easier when everyone just assumes i'm straight
[07:46:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> that does not turn baseline into privilege. changing the wording to make it sound worse doesn't change what is.
[07:46:47] <TheMightyBuzzard> dude, nobody has given a fuck if chicks are straight or not since the 90s.
[07:46:57] <AzumaHazuki> that is demonstrably false
[07:46:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> except pornhub
[07:47:35] <AzumaHazuki> you can be fired or denied housing for being not-straight in plenty of places. de facto can do what de jure can't
[07:47:47] <AzumaHazuki> if this wasn't an issue, there wouldn't be an entire fucking culture war fought over it
[07:48:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> okay, let me rephrase then. i have never met anyone who even disliked lesbians because they were lesbians in my entire life, much less hated them.
[07:48:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> and it hasn't been an issue that never came up
[07:48:38] <AzumaHazuki> and your sample size is what, n=2000 at most?
[07:48:53] <AzumaHazuki> and you have perfect access to these peoples' minds?
[07:48:53] <TheMightyBuzzard> bit bigger
[07:49:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, i have access to what they say in conversation though. in case you ain't noticed, i do talk a bit.
[07:49:44] <AzumaHazuki> and you actually think people speak their entire minds, and don't deceive?
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[07:50:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> redneckville oklahoma had gay folks and lesbians who went around doing their thing and got less shit than straight folks on average.
[07:50:32] <AzumaHazuki> that you know of
[07:50:58] <AzumaHazuki> you are vastly overpriviliging (hah) your own perceptions, and keeping to a rather small area of sampling
[07:51:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> now one lesbian chick i was friends with for a long time probably got no shit because she was a jarhead and would whoop that ass but she lived where she wanted and did what she wanted and never complained once.
[07:51:20] <Julian> Imagine if only 0.1%--a small amount!--of landlords were discriminatory of a small part of 300,000,000 people
[07:51:53] <TheMightyBuzzard> Julian, you reckon racists gravitate to landlording?
[07:51:58] <AzumaHazuki> if even one person were affected then we'd have a human rights issue
[07:52:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> or bigots of whatever kind
[07:52:07] <AzumaHazuki> and shit yes they do, especially in the deep south
[07:52:15] <Sulla> I would assume more landlords would be discriminitory, as they tend to be awful people
[07:52:22] <AzumaHazuki> wealthier people tend to skew...ahem..."conservative"
[07:52:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> AzumaHazuki, you ever been here for more than passing through?
[07:52:35] <AzumaHazuki> shit no
[07:52:48] <Julian> I recon landlords are more often white and conservative, which codes to being bigots. Absolutely, yes
[07:52:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> then don't tell me what the places i've actually lived are like, please.
[07:53:00] <AzumaHazuki> Lincoln had the wrong idea. shoulda burned you traitorous assholes to the ground
[07:53:08] * TheMightyBuzzard laughs
[07:53:11] <AzumaHazuki> then salted the ashes
[07:53:18] <AzumaHazuki> then burned the salt until it screamed for water
[07:53:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> lincoln wouldn't have freed a single slave if it would've saved the union
[07:53:41] <Sulla> Ceterum censeo The South esse delendam
[07:53:51] <AzumaHazuki> indeed no. and your point is?
[07:54:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> trivia
[07:54:01] <Julian> Yeah, Lincoln was shitty, what's your point?
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[07:54:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> i like knowing things
[07:54:29] <AzumaHazuki> it took me until about age 11 or 12 to stop paying any credence to the sanitized horseshit they teach in "history"
[07:55:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> your loss
[07:55:09] <chromas> I overlubed my sammich so now it's cooking in a puddle :|
[07:55:19] <Sulla> whats on it?
[07:55:45] <chromas> Just cheese
[07:55:57] <chromas> I used mayonnaise for the lube instead of butter though
[07:56:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> if all you ever pay attention to is the inflammatory horse shit they teach in college "history", you're no closer to the truth than if you'd believed everything in public school.
[07:56:08] <chromas> I wonder if deep-fried cheese sandwiches are a thing
[07:56:19] <AzumaHazuki> i took no history courses in college. there's another strawman
[07:56:23] <AzumaHazuki> i did my own research
[07:56:27] <Sulla> Buddy of mine has taken to buying geese on craigslist to cook down to the grease, amazing with everything
[07:56:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> you suck at it then
[07:56:33] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Windows 10: NSA Reveals Major Flaw in Microsoft's Code - https://sylnt.us - Ruh-Roh!
[07:56:36] <Julian> Better to watch CNN I guess right? They're shit, too
[07:56:37] <AzumaHazuki> no u
[07:56:40] <Sulla> get better oil chromas and you wont care
[07:56:52] <chromas> What's good for the grease is good for the gander
[07:56:55] * TheMightyBuzzard blows a raspberry at AzumaHazuki
[07:57:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> grease is good for the goober?
[07:57:09] <TheMightyBuzzard> wut?
[07:57:09] * AzumaHazuki flicks dual Vs
[07:57:12] <chromas> Or what's good for the geese is good for the pan...der
[07:57:18] <Sulla> baste
[07:57:40] <Julian> It's easy to be flippant when you have nothing to lose
[07:57:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> Julian, tv is all shit cept cspan
[07:58:19] <TheMightyBuzzard> it's shit too but mostly because it's got a bunch of assholes on it
[07:58:53] <AzumaHazuki> most of those assholes should be run through a woodchipper. see, THIS is "hate"
[07:58:58] <AzumaHazuki> justified, but still hate
[07:59:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> i agree but without the hate. i just think we'd all be better off. same as if we take the trash out instead of piling it all up in the dining room.
[08:00:20] <AzumaHazuki> you have to hate someone to want to run them alive through a woodchipper
[08:00:30] <TheMightyBuzzard> ya think?
[08:00:44] <AzumaHazuki> then you hate them too if you agree
[08:01:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> nope, i don't hate em. hate implies that i carry a mess of anger at them around all the time. i don't do that.
[08:01:47] <AzumaHazuki> hate doesn't need anger
[08:02:04] <AzumaHazuki> i've found the scariest hate is icy-cold, the kind that doesn't even let emotion enter the picture
[08:02:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> yeah, bad word choice
[08:02:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> i don't carry anything unpleasant about them around though.
[08:03:10] <AzumaHazuki> you're an emotional cripple though
[08:03:15] <AzumaHazuki> so that says nothing one way or another
[08:03:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> you don't have to hate a coyote to shoot it for getting in your chicken house. that's about how i feel about them. except that i think they need to be made an example of to save having to do it again.
[08:03:40] <chromas> Mmm, the cheese is all running out of the sandwich into the oil and getting dark and crunchy
[08:03:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, that's emotional maturity and wisdom
[08:04:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> carrying hate around hurts you and harms whatever you hate not at all
[08:04:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> it's poison.
[08:04:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> and bloody stupid to keep around
[08:04:48] <AzumaHazuki> you're making the right noises, but past conduct points to a deficit of emotional processing capability
[08:05:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> not the first time i've said that to you, you know
[08:05:27] <AzumaHazuki> yeah, and it was just as self-serving and obfuscatory last time
[08:05:40] <TheMightyBuzzard> really? what did i gain by it this time?
[08:06:04] <AzumaHazuki> only your twisted little mind knows
[08:06:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> let's be real clear on this then. do not carry hate around. it poisons the soul and makes you a worse and less happy individual without doing any good at all.
[08:07:20] <AzumaHazuki> agreed. justified anger isn't hate though. it doesn't have that driving, obsessive edge to it hate does
[08:07:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> true but if it's not immediately useful, there's no point keeping it around either.
[08:07:58] <chromas> I heard that fear leads to anger and anger leads to hate.
[08:08:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> you can always get angry later if necessary.
[08:08:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> hate leads to cookies?
[08:08:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> shit, i was wrong!
[08:08:33] * TheMightyBuzzard starts hating
[08:08:58] <AzumaHazuki> honey you've been a hater from day 1. you just try and deny it
[08:08:59] <chromas> Wait until you hear this though: Google wants to deprecate cookies. At least third-party ones
[08:09:04] <chromas> homemade cookies are best anyhow
[08:10:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> nah, you just read emotion badly across the internet. i don't do hate. took me a long time to get this level of serenity but i got it and wouldn't go back for love nor money.
[08:10:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> annoyed? i do annoyed like a boss
[08:10:52] <AzumaHazuki> this is what you call serenity?
[08:10:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> but only until i switch windows or browser tabs or go to get a drink or whatever.
[08:11:02] <AzumaHazuki> you need to cut back on stimulants
[08:11:07] <TheMightyBuzzard> yeah. i'm chillin like a villain.
[08:11:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> have been all night
[08:11:34] <AzumaHazuki> yyyyeah gonna file that under the lies header...
[08:11:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> whatever blows your skirt up
[08:12:09] <AzumaHazuki> a steam vent in the street?
[08:12:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> you haven't gotten me angry or even annoyed in at least a year.
[08:13:13] <AzumaHazuki> uhh-huh
[08:13:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> i genuinely enjoy arguing and mostly sit here being all academic about shit. don't take the four letter vocabulary as more than the bad manners it is.
[08:13:29] * AzumaHazuki dodges the rapidly-expanding nose (beak?)
[08:13:34] <TheMightyBuzzard> or trolling. once in a while. when i can't help it.
[08:13:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> or when it's really funny.
[08:14:18] <AzumaHazuki> we need a something awful emoji font. because this deserves a :wank:
[08:14:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> chromas, jump on that
[08:15:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> seriously though, do i sound angry to you on here most of the time?
[08:16:33] <AzumaHazuki> no, you sound condescending and sociopathic
[08:16:43] <AzumaHazuki> you display anger in small bursts when your ego is wounded
[08:16:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> half right anyway
[08:17:01] <AzumaHazuki> it doesn't take a telepath to catch this stuff
[08:17:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> cept my ego don't get wounded by internet arguments, so you're seeing annoyance for another reason.
[08:18:19] <AzumaHazuki> buuuuuulllllshit, private pyle
[08:18:23] <chromas> I feel like this sammich doesn't have enough cheese. Mighty cranchy though
[08:18:26] * TheMightyBuzzard shurgs
[08:18:40] <Sulla> What kind of cheese?
[08:18:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> needs more cowbell
[08:18:49] <chromas> ITT: tmb mansplains his own feelings
[08:19:19] <chromas> colby/jack + pepperjack. It's all we have at the moment
[08:19:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> chromas, as more senior admin, i hereby delegate fixing the wiki to you for that crack.
[08:19:39] <chromas> What're the best sandwich cheeses?
[08:19:52] <Sulla> American
[08:20:05] <Sulla> munster
[08:20:07] <TheMightyBuzzard> non-stinky
[08:20:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> beyond that qualification, they've all got their place
[08:20:33] <Sulla> Was recently gifted a multi-hundred dollar wheel of blue. would go good on it
[08:21:31] <janrinok> <AzumaHazuki> what is it like to be so weak that words hurt you? said that - yet she is arguing for others on this site to be silenced and even banned for holding views different to her own. She ought to be made to read the crap she writes.
[08:22:29] <AzumaHazuki> No I'm not. read the backscroll
[08:22:34] <chromas> That's too much work. What I do is just spew out a bunch of drivel then press enter withoutlskdjf sfkdj e,mn ,mndsfmdkjsd
[08:22:46] <TheMightyBuzzard> janrinok, i dunno wtf she was arguing and i've been here all night. shotgun bitching i think.
[08:22:51] <janrinok> I have read the whole exchange - sort yourself out girl
[08:22:54] <AzumaHazuki> i specifically said i want people like Hallow to argue their shit in direct sunlight and get it torn apart
[08:23:08] <AzumaHazuki> oh eat shit and die, janrinok. you're mad because i got all up in your grill on the forum
[08:23:37] * TheMightyBuzzard laughs
[08:23:51] <chromas> Using mayonnaise for lube gives the sammich a bit of egg flavor around the edges. Noice
[08:23:53] <janrinok> not mad, just got up to start my day and haven't even been on the forum today. Looks like I will have some more crap from you though.
[08:24:09] <AzumaHazuki> and you don't even have to pay for it!
[08:24:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> you ain't got clue one who you just said that to and why he gives not the slightest hint of a fuck about your opinion of him.
[08:24:44] <AzumaHazuki> do i sound like i give even half as many fucks as deadpool barebacking a rabid honey badger halfway into day 3 of a cocaine and PCP bender?
[08:25:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> at least 5/8, yep
[08:25:17] <AzumaHazuki> turn up your hearing aids, old man
[08:25:21] <chromas> I thought it was ⅗
[08:25:23] <TheMightyBuzzard> fair nuff
[08:25:34] <TheMightyBuzzard> nicotine++ #smoke break
[08:25:34] <Bender> karma - nicotine: 752
[08:26:04] <AzumaHazuki> janrinok is one of the reasons we have such a problem on this forum. "neutrality" above all in times of crisis. there is a pertinent quote about that.
[08:27:20] <chromas> SoylentCrises
[08:30:50] <TheMightyBuzzard> from an authoritarian shitstain?
[08:31:16] <AzumaHazuki> Ah, he replied to it even. Seems...rustled, jimmies-wise
[08:31:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> ya know, i was just thinking how glad i am EF is back active again.
[08:32:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> his shit ain't been as witty as his earlier stuff the past couple years but he makes a damned fine warrant canary for us becoming authoritarian shitstains ourselves.
[08:33:09] <AzumaHazuki> he knows a lot about shitstains, from some of what he's posted
[08:33:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> the hooker, his bed, ha!
[08:33:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> dunno if that was true or not but it was damned well funny
[08:33:59] <AzumaHazuki> christ, it's 3:30 in the morning
[08:34:34] <TheMightyBuzzard> good point. now do i start the coffee maker early or get a few hours of sleep?
[08:35:28] <Julian> It's only breakfast burrito o'clock here so I win, like socialism will
[08:35:45] <AzumaHazuki> socialism isn't going to "win." humans are not capable of it on a large scale
[08:35:49] <Sulla> only in body count
[08:35:53] <AzumaHazuki> i wish we were, but we ain't
[08:35:55] <janrinok> Having read your posts and this discussion here - I remain proud to support neither the left nor the right wing on this site. But I cannot agree that we should censor anybody or prevent them from expressing their own views. If they offend you I refer you to the quote of AH's a few lines back.
[08:36:22] <AzumaHazuki> just remember, not choosing is also a choice, and the world doesn't stay static
[08:36:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> Julian, i like you. you're funny.
[08:36:57] <Julian> A moderation system is censorship, we have already won
[08:38:08] <AzumaHazuki> what does socialism have to do with forum moderation?
[08:38:34] <Julian> Everything!
[08:38:50] <AzumaHazuki> i don't think humans are good enough for actual socialism to work, either. if we were that good, ANY economic system would work including utter laissez-faire
[08:39:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> socialism was just a red herring. no, wait, that was communism.
[08:39:17] <chromas> But...but you like fish
[08:39:37] <Julian> Socialism brought 200 million people out of feudalism into middle class life in less than 40 year
[08:39:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> not red ones. they're trying to appropriate my culture.
[08:40:05] <Julian> Capitalism took 450 years with more than 100,000,000 people dead
[08:40:41] <AzumaHazuki> oh not this again...centralization of power is a problem no matter the economic system underlying it
[08:40:41] <TheMightyBuzzard> did it now? where was that?
[08:41:27] <Julian> Every native American and dead African slave goes on the leger of settler-colonialism capitalism dead
[08:42:54] <Sulla> wait, 100m in 450 years? communism beat that in 30. Guess capitalism does lose at something
[08:43:25] <Julian> No, communism has far fewer deaths.
[08:43:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> you take that back! we're #1!
[08:43:43] * TheMightyBuzzard cakcles
[08:43:46] <Julian> Also counting the dead in India under colonialism
[08:44:25] <Julian> Communism wins, but the point of this exercise is to recognize the futility in counting bodies like this
[08:44:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> i thought it was to say "yay my team! boo your team!"
[08:45:54] <Julian> Nah, I think dead people are always bad. Sometimes with extenuating circumstances, but always regrettable
[08:46:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> dead people don't care that they're dead. living people do all the caring.
[08:46:52] <Julian> The millions of living slaves today agree
[08:46:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> so if you kill everybody, nobody's sad
[08:47:31] <AzumaHazuki> this is not so. i've spoken with a few "dead" people (or, to be fair, believe I've had evidence of such). Wish like hell i hadn't. It would be so much easier to be a hard materialist.
[08:47:33] <Julian> Technically true, yes]
[08:47:41] <TheMightyBuzzard> Sulla, get started on that. you're the official sn massacre officer.
[08:48:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> shit, i earwormed myself
[08:48:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> #yt alice's resturant
[08:48:28] <MrPlow> https://www.youtube.com -- Alice&#39;s Restaurant - Original 1967 Recording
[08:49:37] <Sulla> I look away for 10 seconds to play runescape and I get assigned a task.
[08:50:14] <Sulla> Ask Aristarchus, he's older
[08:50:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> well it's understandable you wouldn't be expecting it. we don't do all that many massacres.
[08:50:27] <Sulla> Well, mine were justified
[08:50:38] <Sulla> Marians had to go, saving the republic etc
[08:51:34] <Sulla> If I had killed the Caesar lad like I wanted nobody would care about the numbers
[08:54:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> there's just not as big a market for them lately. most of the massacre unions have even had to shut down. nowadays you can't even expect to make a decent living wage for feeding babies to dogs.
[08:54:59] <Sulla> Serves em right. People should massacre only needing to be paid by the words "but the glory of rome is forever"
[08:55:02] <Sulla> damn plebs
[08:56:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> so, amateurs? like so they could still qualify for the feeding babies to dogs event in the olympics?
[08:58:05] <Sulla> I suppose, if you are into greek fantasies of greatness. Barbarians they were.
[08:59:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> true. plus the ones who actually lived near marathon got to totally cheat.
[09:00:05] <TheMightyBuzzard> no big deal to run over to marathon if it's just across the way there
[09:00:22] <Sulla> I guess, if you are into greek myths
[09:00:24] <Sulla> bunch of barbarians
[09:01:17] <Sulla> Lies by Mithradates mean to inspire Greek troops
[09:01:33] <FatPhil> bunch of aryan barbies
[09:06:15] <TheMightyBuzzard> okay, ima fuck off and get me a two hour nap before coffee.
[09:07:26] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - How Google Researchers Used Neural Networks to Make Weather Forecasts - https://sylnt.us - skynet-is-here
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[09:26:35] <FatPhil> that's how he lives so long, he's travelling at a significant proportion of the speed of light.
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[10:13:40] <aristarchus> What? Only seconds, not nanoseconds, or anything. Nothing like the time reading TMB's obvious rebutting of something. Time is, well, time.
[10:18:01] <aristarchus> 'Zumi nailed janrinok, again. His real name is "Petain".
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[10:25:55] <janrinok> in your dreams aristarchus - I don't even think that the conversation is worth joining. Stopping any part of our community from expressing their views simply because they do not accord with one's own views is a definite no-no for us. Azuma claims that words cannot hurt people - yet she cannot stand those who disagree with her.
[10:33:14] <FatPhil> and wants them to physically suffer too.
[10:33:25] <FatPhil> Whilst offering pity.
[10:33:31] <janrinok> true
[10:34:01] <FatPhil> Last time I heard that philosophy was from that absolutely psychotic bitch Mother Teresa.
[10:34:53] <janrinok> Fortunately, unlike claims made by Ari, she hasn't resurrected herself and appeared on this site
[10:36:07] <FatPhil> I'd just foe and move on, as I have the "sanity" gene.
[11:09:03] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - 737 Max "Designed by Clowns"; Boeing Suppliers Affected by Production Suspension - https://sylnt.us - downward-spiral
[12:56:53] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Amazon Asks Court to Block US/Microsoft Contract Because of Trump Interference - https://sylnt.us - deep-pockets
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[14:02:26] <chopchop1> oh wow am i gonna have to increase muh log buffer to capture all the overnight drama?
[14:07:26] * cmn32480 is glad he slept through all that scrollback.
[14:14:21] <AndyTheAbsurd> I read what was on my screen, decided it wasn't worth bothering with, and went on with my day.
[14:23:05] <cmn32480> AndyTheAbsurd - I read about 10 lines worth and made the same decision
[14:23:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> ~gday cmn32480
[14:23:27] * exec disturbingly penetrates a powerpoint presentation of stale doughnuts with cmn32480
[14:23:34] <TheMightyBuzzard> ~gday coffee
[14:23:35] * exec transcendentally fires satchel of political shitposting at coffee
[14:23:38] <cmn32480> ~gday the
[14:23:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> coffee++
[14:23:38] <Bender> karma - coffee: 5079
[14:23:40] * exec dexterously slides a rusty trombone of Dooby Snax to the
[14:23:42] <cmn32480> ~gday TheMightyBuzzard
[14:23:44] * exec ironically sets a cache of diversity by TheMightyBuzzard
[14:25:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> so, exec's weather function is outdated and don't go no more
[14:25:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> you should pester chromas until he agrees to fix it
[14:26:10] <cmn32480> I know...
[14:26:57] <cmn32480> thats the thing about priorities... exec is pretty low on the list. especially given my non-existent coding skillz
[14:27:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> right, s'why you make some other poor fool do it
[14:27:51] * TheMightyBuzzard hides behind FatPhil
[14:28:41] * cmn32480 peers around FatPhil and looks at TMB's ugly mug
[14:29:25] <cmn32480> crutchy hasn't commited a change to the git repo in over a year
[14:30:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> have some milk of human kindness, i already got a bigass bunch of perl to babysit.
[14:30:45] <cmn32480> this sin't perl
[14:30:50] <TheMightyBuzzard> i know, is worse
[14:30:51] <cmn32480> it's PHP... WAY batter
[14:31:01] <TheMightyBuzzard> ebul
[14:31:07] <cmn32480> fewer letters... has to be better, right?
[14:32:38] <AndyTheAbsurd> So...C, D and R are the best languages?
[14:32:49] <AndyTheAbsurd> I don't think this statement stands up to scrutiny.
[14:32:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> is higher or lower better?
[14:33:14] * cmn32480 shurgs
[14:33:29] <cmn32480> this conversation has already exhausted my programming knowledge
[14:34:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> GOTO _COFFEE_
[14:34:31] <cmn32480> good plan
[14:34:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> and they say GOTO don't have its uses...
[14:42:32] <AndyTheAbsurd> if you have to make the coffee first, it should be GOSUB _COFFEE_
[14:43:28] <AndyTheAbsurd> be sure to return an error code if /dev/coffee_maker is inaccessible to the current user.
[14:44:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> in the form of large amounts of violence
[14:45:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> nicotine++ # smoke break
[14:45:54] <Bender> karma - nicotine: 753
[14:46:41] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Galaxy S20 Ultra to Come With a Whopping 16GB of RAM - https://sylnt.us - if-you-have-to-ask-the-price...
[14:53:06] <chromas> [Java reference]
[14:56:42] <AndyTheAbsurd> it'd almost be worth if it, if Samsung's bloatware wouldn't eat the first 12GB before you even install anything.
[14:58:11] <AndyTheAbsurd> Man, I miss when an Android phone with 1GB of RAM was actually a capable device.
[14:59:23] <TheMightyBuzzard> lineageos ftw
[15:00:34] <TheMightyBuzzard> oof. i'm too old to drink like that. ima go lay down and watch tv n drink coffee until i feel human.
[15:07:22] <chromas> With all the monochrome icons and stuff, I'd think modern Android would require fewer resources. Á lasse, the old maxim applies.
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[15:59:14] <FatPhil> So, FatPhil, what lovely part of Britain did you go to for your late summer holiday? Thanks for asking, I went here: https://www.dailymail.co.uk , and I ate a lot of kebabs (with extra hot chilli sauce ("are you sure?")), thank you.
[15:59:17] <systemd> ^ 03Kebab shop fight breaks out as one diner calmly carries on eating
[15:59:26] <FatPhil> I coulda been a meme if I'd gone at a different time of year
[16:05:19] <chopchop1> ol FatPhil trying to take credit for sit down guy
[16:05:21] <chopchop1> for shame
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[16:35:28] <chromas> https://www.youtube.com
[16:35:29] <systemd> ^ 03Hackers
[16:38:04] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - “Marshmallow Test” Redux: Children Show Better Self-Control When They Depend on Each Other - https://sylnt.us - cooperate
[16:44:54] <chromas> Marshmallows have a similar texture to a dry cat nose
[16:45:20] <chromas> But marshmallows don't complain when I press them
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[18:25:59] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - An 'Unknown' Burst of Gravitational Waves Just Lit Up Earth's Detectors - https://sylnt.us - like-a-christmas-tree
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[20:12:08] <cmn32480> well f**k.
[20:12:39] <cmn32480> how in the hell do I turn off hsts? it is on, and I have an expired cert in Apache... so I can't get to the site to reinstall the cert...
[20:12:48] * cmn32480 blames NCommander
[20:15:47] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Philippine Volcano Trembles More, Spews Lava Half-Mile High - https://sylnt.us - ??-I-feel-the-earth.-move.-under-my-feet-??
[20:15:55] <cmn32480> well damn.. this actually worked.
[20:15:56] <cmn32480> https://stackoverflow.com
[20:15:57] <systemd> ^ 03Unset or Expire HSTS Policy on Apache Server
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[21:34:35] <FatPhil> Sulla: erm, something something something in response to your comment earlier, just before you left the channel
[21:36:44] <chromas> Wise wisdom of the wise.
[21:44:00] <chromas> techcrunch--
[21:44:00] <Bender> karma - techcrunch: -2
[21:45:27] <chromas> I clicked a link and got only the article text. Too good to be true! Reloading now just gives me their guce.advertising.com tracking redirect bs. Bastids
[21:50:42] <Sulla> On them videos?
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[22:07:39] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Oracle Ties Previous All-Time Patch High with January Updates - https://sylnt.us - patchy-Tuesday
[22:22:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> #submit https://www.rt.com Not exactly an unbiased source. Feel free to google up others.
[22:22:33] <MrPlow> Submitting. There is a mandatory delay, please be patient.
[22:22:58] <MrPlow> Submission successful. https://soylentnews.org
[22:33:41] <Sulla> Russia situation is pretty interesting. Need to read more about it when I have time
[22:34:21] <Sulla> #submit https://www.bbc.com
[22:34:23] <MrPlow> Submitting. There is a mandatory delay, please be patient.
[22:34:48] <MrPlow> Submission successful. https://soylentnews.org
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[23:56:00] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Ex-NASA Scientist “Convinced” Alien Life Was Found on Mars Over 40 Years Ago - https://sylnt.us