#Soylent | Logs for 2018-09-17
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[00:13:01] <FatPhil> Internal Server Error!
[00:13:13] <FatPhil> transient
[00:28:05] <Deucalion> Licorice
[00:44:28] <Fnord666> #submit https://www.engadget.com
[00:44:28] <MrPlow> Submitting. There is a mandatory delay, please be patient.
[00:44:54] <MrPlow> Submission successful. https://soylentnews.org
[00:44:56] <upstart> ^ 03SoylentNews Submissions
[00:45:22] <Fnord666> #submit https://www.engadget.com
[00:45:23] <MrPlow> Submitting. There is a mandatory delay, please be patient.
[00:45:48] <MrPlow> Submission successful. https://soylentnews.org
[00:45:49] <upstart> ^ 03SoylentNews Submissions
[00:47:53] <Fnord666> #submit https://motherboard.vice.com
[00:47:54] <MrPlow> Submitting. There is a mandatory delay, please be patient.
[00:48:20] <MrPlow> Submission successful. https://soylentnews.org
[00:48:22] <upstart> ^ 03SoylentNews Submissions
[00:55:52] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - 50,000-Year-Old Mummified Remains of Wolf Pup and Caribou Found in Northern Canada - http://sylnt.us - glad-to-know-that
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[01:23:29] -!- mode/#Soylent [+v mrpg] by Aphrodite
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[01:38:41] <exec> welcome Ethanol-fueled: San Diego, CA, 24°C/75°F, 6:38 pm PDT, Sunday, 16 September 2018
[01:38:57] <pinchy> woot its Ethanol-fueled!
[01:39:28] <Ethanol-fueled> https://www.youtube.com
[01:39:30] <upstart> ^ 03Of Wolf And Man
[01:40:09] <pinchy> when will Ethanol-fueled do a weekly podcast? rants and opinion pieces
[01:40:23] <Ethanol-fueled> pinchy, I could manage that.
[01:41:13] <pinchy> or start writing for amerika.org
[01:41:14] <Ethanol-fueled> I would love to have guest sections too.
[01:42:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> just host the podcasts somewhere then link them in your journal
[01:42:18] <Ethanol-fueled> I know you scum hate sports, but I could offer a blurb in sports radio format.
[01:42:54] <Ethanol-fueled> This is something I've wanted to do since the very inception of Soylentnews.
[01:43:19] <TheMightyBuzzard> nothin wrong with sports. they just gotta be good sports like college football or nascar or bikini football.
[01:43:35] <mrpg> I like need for speed.
[01:44:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> i quit watching nascar after dale sr died but it was fun up until then.
[01:44:46] <Ethanol-fueled> I have a lot of good NASCAR guest-speakers at my disposal.
[01:45:22] <Ethanol-fueled> I think we can get something good going.
[01:45:36] <Ethanol-fueled> But not tonight ;)
[01:46:24] <Ethanol-fueled> I can get a good Jim Rome-style thing going here.
[01:47:48] <Ethanol-fueled> And, better, trusted associates fighting Ethanol-fueled politically.
[01:49:31] <Ethanol-fueled> I can help. I will be back later.
[01:52:13] <Ethanol-fueled> Well this wont happen tonight because
[01:53:08] <Ethanol-fueled> I think that getting podcasts here is a good idea
[01:53:19] <TheMightyBuzzard> ima be asleep here in about half an hour
[01:53:28] <Ethanol-fueled> because what we do during podcasts is FIGHT.
[01:53:37] <Ethanol-fueled> go for it homie.
[01:54:23] <Ethanol-fueled> i'm about to fall asleep too. and I do miss those deliciously greasy Waffle-Houses
[01:54:39] <Ethanol-fueled> waffle-house++
[01:54:47] <TheMightyBuzzard> mmmm....
[01:54:53] <TheMightyBuzzard> (waffle house)++
[01:54:53] <Bender> karma - (waffle house): 1
[01:55:08] <Ethanol-fueled> Hell Yeah.
[01:55:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> i have two right down on the interstate. two adjacent exits.
[01:55:47] <Ethanol-fueled> Lucky bastard
[01:55:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> the next one has a dennys so i don't use it
[01:56:00] <Ethanol-fueled> We don't have those here in California.
[01:56:13] <Ethanol-fueled> I wish we did.
[01:56:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> they're okay if there's no waffle house within a hundred miles but there's no real comparison
[01:56:32] -!- mrpg [mrpg!~Thunderbi@Soylent/Staff/Editor/mrpg] has parted #Soylent
[01:57:00] <Ethanol-fueled> Buzzbomb, there is nothing better than the greasy hashbrowns of a Waffle House
[01:57:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh but there is. they have this new bowl thing where they throw all kinds of breakfasty stuff or philly cheese steak on top of hashbrowns in a bowl.
[01:58:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> not to take anything away from scattered, smothered, covered, and peppered, mind you.
[01:58:36] <Ethanol-fueled> We got the Dennys grand slam burger
[01:58:57] <Ethanol-fueled> Eggs and bacon on a meat sandwich
[01:59:58] <Ethanol-fueled> Long Live America. The greatest nationon Earth
[02:00:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> i been laying off the carbs a lot lately. not like keto or anything (biscuits and gravy last night) but TR is doing keto and it's easier to fix stuff that we'll both eat then add something with carbs just for me if i feel the need.
[02:00:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> merica++
[02:00:33] <Bender> karma - merica: 5
[02:01:14] <Ethanol-fueled> Buzzbomb is leading by example.
[02:01:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> like instead of eating a 1/2lb burger with a bun and veggies, make a 1.25lb burger and just eat the patty and some cheese.
[02:02:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> perfectly acceptable and saves fucking with cutting up veggies and eating the buns before they get fuzzy.
[02:02:57] <Ethanol-fueled> I will leave now. Good on you for leading by example.
[02:03:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> mind you, it's a whole lot of fun to go down and grab a dozen donuts or eat biscuits n gravy in front of him.
[02:03:22] <Ethanol-fueled> I will EAT FUZZY BURGERS!
[02:03:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> thas fur burgers not fuzzy ones.
[02:03:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> fuzzy ones are underage.
[02:04:14] <Ethanol-fueled> Good evening, gentlemen. I shall eat nasty burgers!
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[02:04:45] * TheMightyBuzzard takes off every zig as well
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[04:25:39] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Tropical Depression Florence Continues to Dump Rain on the Carolinas - http://sylnt.us - depressing-news
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[06:17:05] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Final Delta 2 Launch - http://sylnt.us
[06:30:18] <FatPhil> ~weather
[06:30:20] <exec> 10Tallinn, Harju County, Estonia - currently 53°F / 12°C, rain, wind S at 13 mph, humidity 97% - Monday rain (51°F:61°F / 11°C:16°C), Tuesday cloudy (55°F:64°F / 13°C:18°C), Wednesday mostly sunny (56°F:71°F / 13°C:22°C), Thursday partly cloudy (55°F:69°F / 13°C:21°C)
[06:33:50] <SemperOSS> Coffee++
[06:33:50] <Bender> karma - coffee: 4300
[06:41:49] <FatPhil> good idea
[06:42:47] <SemperOSS> Much needed to get started on my day
[06:49:38] <FatPhil> lazy... instant for me
[06:49:51] <FatPhil> better than nothing
[06:51:50] <SemperOSS> I've just moved into an oversized caravan, so instant is the only choice (no room for a coffee machine/maker)
[06:52:51] <chromas> Sounds like an undersized caravan
[06:55:06] <SemperOSS> I guess ;-) It's big enough for me, though, but not for my lifetime collection of oddities
[07:48:18] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Tesla is Ending its Lifetime Free Supercharging Offer - http://sylnt.us - electrons-want-to-be-free
[09:15:47] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - BPA-Free Replacement Plastics May Still Have Harmful Effects - http://sylnt.us - as-it-always-is
[09:24:35] <chromas> from the ♹ dept
[10:15:53] <TheMightyBuzzard> coffee++
[10:15:53] <Bender> karma - coffee: 4301
[10:17:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> SemperOSS, as much as i'm not a fan of cheese-eating surrender monkeys, try a french press. doesn't take up much more room than a large glass and makes much better coffee than instant.
[10:19:18] <SemperOSS> You're right and I do have one somewhere, if only I could find it now. With my usual luck, I'm probably going to find it in the last box I open
[10:21:00] <SemperOSS> (Instant coffee)--
[10:21:00] <Bender> karma - (instant coffee): -1
[10:24:22] <SemperOSS> My brother has a contraption the size of a couple of drawers where you select coffee type and whatnot, press a button and voilà ... that bastard
[10:25:13] <FatPhil> SemperOSS: French Press is also my method of top preference, taste-wise. However, for *convenience*, I use an AeroPress - cleaning it is way simpler than a french press, with no grille to worry about.
[10:27:07] <SemperOSS> FatPhil: Thanks for the idea. Haven't seen one of those before but I'll find a shop somewhere and have a look
[10:27:57] <SemperOSS> ... if I can find a shop. Difficult these days where many things are available only on the internet
[10:28:02] <cmn32480> coffeee++
[10:28:02] <Bender> karma - coffeee: 1
[10:28:06] <cmn32480> coffee++
[10:28:06] <Bender> karma - coffee: 4302
[10:28:23] <FatPhil> tweek!
[10:29:20] <boru> It's a long shot, but I need help finding a paper. The premise is creating a statistical limit for which retransmission over some radio (HF, iirc) is guaranteed to produce reliable transmission. ISTR the paper being published between 2012-2015. Any hams around that recollect it?
[10:29:49] <SemperOSS> SouthPark++
[10:29:49] <Bender> karma - southpark: 1
[10:30:50] <boru> It was related to unidirectionaly bursty communications.
[10:44:17] <FatPhil> I can offer you Shannon, 1948, that's no use is it? ;-p
[10:46:19] <FatPhil> https://scontent.fhel1-1.fna.fbcdn.net
[10:57:10] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Cryptocurrency Mining Attacks Using Leaked NSA Hacking Tools Are Still Highly Active a Year Later - http://sylnt.us - [sigh]
[11:26:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> boru, too early for research. i'm still having to pause a second to get the correct wording before slapping down foolishness.
[11:29:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> FatPhil, i prefer an espresso machine for 2nd+ cup of coffee. the first one needs to be from a regular old drip coffee maker, with a timer that tells it to make the bloody coffee just before i wake up.
[11:30:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> french/aero press would be my second choice for post-1st cup though.
[11:31:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> smoke break
[11:31:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> nicotine++
[11:31:20] <Bender> karma - nicotine: 656
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[11:50:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> https://git.kernel.org
[11:50:56] * TheMightyBuzzard facepalms
[11:54:51] <boru> TMB; thanks man. I'm semi-AFK today, but I'll check in periodically.
[11:55:10] <boru> Is that the commit with the single equals sign change?
[11:55:25] <boru> Oh, no.
[12:00:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> http://lkml.iu.edu
[12:00:11] <upstart> ^ 03Linux-Kernel Archive: Linux 4.19-rc4 released, an apology, and a maintainership note
[12:02:52] <TheMightyBuzzard> i really hope he's trolling. linux wouldn't be linux without linus busting noob balls.
[12:04:00] <boru> What was it that Aristotle said about tolerance and apathy...
[12:04:41] * TheMightyBuzzard is too apathetic to bother looking it up
[12:22:02] <cmn32480> ~g aristotle tolerance and apathy
[12:22:13] <cmn32480> #g aristotle tolerance and apathy
[12:22:13] <MrPlow> https://www.quora.com - "Virtues are the human qualities that make society possible. The 10 Commandments, the Judaic 613 laws, The Noble Eightfold Path, the Jainist TEN UNIVERSAL ..."
[12:22:36] * cmn32480 can't remember which bot does what
[12:23:08] <cmn32480> ~gday TheMightyBuzzard
[12:23:10] * exec tediously throws a subset of eyeball jelly at TheMightyBuzzard
[12:23:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> ~gday cmn32480
[12:23:20] * exec $adverb vomits yo mama of nasty, rotten burrito on cmn32480
[12:23:48] <cmn32480> remnants of Subsentient... <sigh>
[12:37:04] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Linus Torvalds Taking a Break From Linux Kernel Maintainership - http://sylnt.us - intervention!-intervention!
[13:20:21] <Konomi> https://gitlab.com
[13:20:22] <upstart> ^ 03Generic Monitor Python ($1754608) · Snippets
[13:20:28] <Konomi> https://gitlab.com
[13:20:29] <upstart> ^ 03Generic Monitor Bash ($1754610) · Snippets
[13:20:36] <Konomi> think I prefer the python
[14:08:12] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - India Launches UK's NovaSAR and S1-4 Satellites - http://sylnt.us - Eye-in-the-sky
[14:18:58] <FatPhil> Any ideas on the simplest way of finding out who's currently running the X session on a desktop linux (devian).
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[14:26:38] <FatPhil> this is the best I have at the moment, which won't kill me: XUSER=`ps auxw | grep -m1 "[x]-window-manager" | cut -d ' ' -f 1`
[14:26:54] <SemperOSS> FatPhil: I'm using XCFE4 and ''ps -ef | grep xfce4-session'' shows the user
[14:27:44] <Konomi> second
[14:31:06] <boru> `ps` won't help if you've hardened your system to prevent unpriv'd users from viewing other users' processes.
[14:35:15] -!- pinchy has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
[14:38:12] <FatPhil> this is for a script that I'll be running as root
[14:39:05] <FatPhil> if someone's sudo'd or similar in an xterm, I'm trying to get them (as root) xauth permissions
[14:40:59] <FatPhil> so basically the above line followed by: xauth add $(xauth -f /home/$XUSER/.Xauthority list|grep unix$DISPLAY)
[14:44:50] <SemperOSS> FatPhil: For that purpose, would $SUDO_USER or $SUD_UID be of any use. They're set by sudo when activated
[14:48:00] <Konomi> FatPhil: here https://paste.ofcode.org
[14:48:01] <upstart> ^ 03Paste ofCode
[14:48:09] <Konomi> already wrote thisbefore I;m guessing this is waht you want
[14:48:30] <Konomi> oh sec it has my script thingy in it
[14:49:08] <Konomi> https://paste.ofcode.org
[14:49:21] <Konomi> that should let sudo commands work with xorg
[14:49:41] <Konomi> or sorry it should let you run a script as sudo and then issue commands that xorg would use
[14:49:53] <upstart> ^ 03Paste ofCode
[14:50:20] <Konomi> once the script exits the fd will vanish as well
[14:50:24] <Konomi> so no worrying about clean up
[14:54:55] <FatPhil> Konomi: I want this to be usable whether you entered via sudo or su, so don't have SUDO_* vars set
[14:55:19] <FatPhil> SemperOSS: ^^^^ ooops
[14:57:48] <FatPhil> Konomi: so that has to be run before you become root?
[14:59:30] <FatPhil> if I've not become root yet, i always have the option of just ssh -X localhost!
[14:59:45] <FatPhil> no idea why 'sux' was killed.
[15:03:14] <Konomi> FatPhil: give me a sec I hadn't thought of sh but will work it
[15:08:41] <SemperOSS> FatPhil: What about $XAUTHORITY, which is set to the original user's "$HOME/.Xauthority"? I know you'll have to go via "/etc/passwd" to reverse lookup the user, but if everything else fails ...
[15:10:45] <SemperOSS> I'm just firing off the cuff, but hopefully Konomi will have a solution.
[15:12:58] <Konomi> I will it's just a pain because I don't use ssh
[15:13:06] <Konomi> if you're happy to manually stick a user name in it will work
[15:15:56] <Konomi> $ sudo bash ./snippet.sh
[15:15:56] <Konomi> x:960 y:540 screen:0 window:20971523
[15:15:56] <Konomi> bash ~
[15:15:56] <Konomi> $ sudo xdotool getmouselocation
[15:15:56] <Konomi> No protocol specified
[15:15:58] <Konomi> Error: Can't open display: (null)
[15:16:01] <Konomi> Failed creating new xdo instance
[15:16:21] <Konomi> https://paste.ofcode.org
[15:16:22] <upstart> ^ 03Paste ofCode
[15:16:29] <Konomi> you'll have to figure out how to get USERNAME in there
[15:18:14] <Konomi> you could use $SUDO_USER as SemperOSS pointed out
[15:20:44] <Konomi> https://paste.ofcode.org
[15:20:44] <upstart> ^ 03Paste ofCode
[15:22:32] <Konomi> you'll also need export DIPLSAY
[15:24:23] <Konomi> https://paste.ofcode.org < tested and works from a base ssh console
[15:24:24] <upstart> ^ 03Paste ofCode
[15:25:14] <SemperOSS> The alternative to get the username using $XAUTHORITY: grep ":${XAUTHORITY%%/.Xauthority}:" /etc/passwd | cut -d : -f 1
[15:25:30] <Konomi> xauthority isn't set on bare ssh
[15:25:46] <SemperOSS> Ah
[15:27:18] <Konomi> echo ${XAUTHORITY?Not set or empty}
[15:27:26] <Konomi> -bash: XAUTHORITY: Not set or empty
[15:29:37] <FatPhil> the two lines I posted do work for me, just sniffing the user's name, and then brute forcing their xauth into yours.
[15:32:46] <SemperOSS> FatPhil: If it works and you're happy with it, go for it! If it ain't (too) broken, don't fix it, ya know.
[15:33:37] <Konomi> have to agree shell is a mess anyway
[15:33:46] <Konomi> there's a reason I posted those two snippets above
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[15:35:23] <SemperOSS> I agree. There's no end to the number of hacks I've had to implement to fix something or other across shell sessions
[15:36:17] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - AURA Statement about the Status of the Sunspot Solar Observatory - http://sylnt.us - Why-couldn't-they-say-that-before?
[15:37:54] <Konomi> shell is one of those languages where you write a lot in it, reflect and thing "I really shouldn't have written most of this in shell"
[15:38:11] <Konomi> think*
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[15:41:28] <Konomi> btw the pynvml module in that snipped was actually made my nvidia which is kinda cool: https://pypi.org
[15:41:28] <upstart> ^ 03nvidia-ml-py
[15:43:02] <Konomi> starting to like Python more, sorry Perl >.<
[15:45:12] * SemperOSS hasn't had an excuse to go more into Python, so it's still Perl here
[15:46:28] <Konomi> perls future is kind of dead thanks to the muck with 6
[15:46:37] <Konomi> a lot of modules aren't getting touched anymore
[15:48:55] <SemperOSS> Yeah, shift vs. shift @_ and lots of other incompatibilities plus the CPAN scare
[15:49:07] <Konomi> cpan scare?
[15:50:56] <SemperOSS> Somebody said at some point that CPAN would stop their service sometime this fall, with all that that would entail, only it hasn't been so and I can't find the reference now
[15:51:11] <Konomi> that was just a migration to metacpan...
[15:51:28] <Konomi> which like many things perl should've happened fing years ago
[15:53:27] <Konomi> the other thing that eats me up about perl
[15:53:29] <Konomi> https://sebastianraschka.com
[15:53:30] <upstart> ^ 03The key differences between Python 2.7.x and Python 3.x with examples
[15:53:35] <Konomi> http://design.perl6.org
[15:53:36] <upstart> ^ 03Perl6::Perl5::Differences
[15:56:40] <Bytram> SemperOSS: Konomi: yes, transition to "metacpan"... we had a story about it here on SoylentNews a while back
[15:57:02] <Bytram> would love to stay and chat (and have enjoyed watching your converstaion) but need to be at work in 30 minutes.
[15:57:03] <Bytram> laters
[15:57:10] <Bytram> have a great day everyone!
[15:57:15] <Konomi> np good luck
[15:57:24] <SemperOSS> I should probably seriously consider going towards Python as I can't keep up with the Perl versions and sub-versions
[15:57:46] <SemperOSS> Bytram: All the best at work!
[15:59:18] <hopdevil> i do all scripting in python, even if it takes longer to write it ends up being less work trying to fix and maintain
[15:59:53] <hopdevil> python 3 is annoying though, i never made the transition
[16:00:27] <Konomi> what's wrong with 3 so far?
[16:00:36] <Konomi> the differences here don't look too bad
[16:01:10] <hopdevil> oh nothing, it is fine.. i just hate print as a function ;)
[16:01:38] <Konomi> seems more consistent with the language to me
[16:01:44] <hopdevil> totally
[16:02:02] <FatPhil> I'm porting a pile of perl to lua currently, as perl is too slow (and python slower)
[16:02:43] <hopdevil> interesting, speed matters and you still use a scripting language?
[16:03:39] <FatPhil> Yes. There's no reason a scripting language has to be slow, it only needs to be parsed once.
[16:04:03] <FatPhil> unless it's a scripting language with two hundred kitchen sinks
[16:04:37] <hopdevil> that is true, but most scripting languages dont compile down to native
[16:05:34] <SemperOSS> Perl and Python are compiled to pseudo-code and "interpreted". Some JavaScript implementations might be even better as the use a JIT compiler to native code
[16:05:38] <FatPhil> nor should they need to
[16:06:06] <FatPhil> most scripting languages should be just binding together functions that do the heavy lifting, things like OS calls.
[16:06:13] <hopdevil> lua is nice because the data structures arent very bloated
[16:06:38] <hopdevil> it usually comes down to what data is being manipulated, not necessarily the OS calls
[16:06:59] <FatPhil> I have one massive complaint about lua - assignment isn't an expression.
[16:07:32] <hopdevil> so it is a little more verbose
[16:07:50] <FatPhil> I work and think in terms of get-return-value-from-function-and-test-it-immediately, it's a real pain.
[16:08:51] <FatPhil> that depends if your if..elseif..elseif..elseif... has to turn into elses followed by inner ifs, and thus indent itself obnoxiously.
[16:09:10] <SemperOSS> Like "while ($Line = GetLine()) ..."?
[16:09:52] <FatPhil> classic example, but they have iterators to solve that issue. for var in obj:getlines() do
[16:11:22] <FatPhil> so it's ifs that are mostly affected. you can't do if(id=check_login(uname,pass)) ...
[16:12:04] <SemperOSS> What about a = b = c = 0?
[16:12:25] <FatPhil> there's another lua niggle - no ternary operator, another thing I love, as i'm very DRY and see repetition of left-hand-sides of assignments as repeating yourself.
[16:12:30] <Konomi> my main point with python2->3 vs perl5->6 is python3 feels like an evolution while perl6 feels like a revolution
[16:12:56] <Konomi> all the modules perl5 programmers are used to will need perl6 ports with a lot of effort
[16:12:59] <FatPhil> SemperOSS: no way - you pervert! Who'd ever want to do that.
[16:13:12] <FatPhil> (apart from me and bloody everyone)
[16:13:32] <FatPhil> Konomi: totally - perl6 is not even perl to me
[16:13:50] <Konomi> that's why I'm going to python and sayin good bye to perl
[16:13:51] <hopdevil> i never even looked at perl6, i had moved on already
[16:13:58] <Konomi> I'll probably still code perl5 but 6 I'll never bother with
[16:14:05] <SemperOSS> It could have been worse: VisualPerl#!
[16:14:21] <FatPhil> I started on perl 4, and migration to 5 was organic. I never even realised that I had learnt 4 and was now using 5!
[16:14:30] <Konomi> my other gripe with perl is there are too many ways to do the same thing
[16:14:42] <Konomi> it makes maintence of other peoples code a nightmare
[16:14:53] <FatPhil> Perl for me is Stockholm Syndrome. It's a fricken awful language, but 25 years is 25 years.
[16:15:12] <SemperOSS> That's why Perl has been called a write-only language
[16:15:36] <Konomi> python on the other hand seems to be consistent with not many ways to do the asme thing
[16:15:43] <Konomi> I mean things like
[16:15:48] <hopdevil> had reason to do something in perl 2 or 3 once.. even finding docs to figure out what the basic API calls were was a challenge
[16:15:50] <Konomi> return unless(true);
[16:15:51] <FatPhil> When I say I'm porting perl to lua, what I'm actually doing is prototyping it in perl, and then just translating line by line.
[16:15:56] <Konomi> return if (not true)
[16:16:04] <Konomi> thsi stuff makes perl a damn headache
[16:16:17] <Konomi> I dislike unless greatly
[16:16:18] <FatPhil> I can't think in lua as easily. Perl comes completely naturally (the way I write it)
[16:16:30] <Konomi> it's not gramatically clear
[16:17:05] <FatPhil> I think too many of perl's features were "neat" or "cool", rather than practical.
[16:17:24] <hopdevil> it is nice for regex and text parsing
[16:17:42] <Konomi> perl6 in my mind would've done away with a lot of the double methods of doing things and modernised the language
[16:17:48] <Konomi> instead they just made wtfbbq language
[16:18:21] <Konomi> Was: $ENV{FOO}
[16:18:25] <Konomi> Now: %*ENV<FOO>
[16:18:30] <Konomi> why even keep shit like this
[16:19:11] <Konomi> I feel like the thought for this change was "How can we make this EVEN more confusing than it was before? OH I KNOW"
[16:19:19] <FatPhil> $ENV{'FOO'} makes perfect sense, what's wrong with it?
[16:19:57] <Konomi> it's not exactly newbie friendly
[16:20:05] <FatPhil> the new syntax is an abomination, of course.
[16:20:07] <Konomi> also good thing you're using quotes cause those are mandatory in 6
[16:20:22] <SemperOSS> To be honest, I find the idea of using %, @ and $ consistently good to avoid $X{ $X[ $X ] }
[16:20:48] <SemperOSS> s/ly go/ly, go/
[16:20:49] <exec> <SemperOSS> To be honest, I find the idea of using %, @ and $ consistently, good to avoid $X{ $X[ $X ] }
[16:21:14] <FatPhil> The logic works both ways. Changing from one logic (the var) to the other logic (the val) is, erm, unnecessary.
[16:21:45] <FatPhil> And, if you're using it for the var not the val, then you don't need sigils at all really!
[16:22:16] <Konomi> Was: if ($a < $b) { ... }
[16:22:17] <Konomi> Now: if $a < $b { ... }
[16:22:20] <Konomi> whhhyyyy
[16:22:22] <FatPhil> you've effectively just made it part of the variable's name.
[16:22:36] <Konomi> so many whys on this page
[16:22:58] <FatPhil> I'd forgotten that change - easy, for lazy programmers who want to use a language that's really hard to parse.
[16:23:11] <Konomi> Was: for ($i=0; $i<10; $i++) { ... }
[16:23:12] <Konomi> Now: loop ($i=0; $i<10; $i++) { ... }
[16:23:16] <Konomi> what is even the point of this
[16:23:51] * SemperOSS sneaks into a corner and starts GWBASIC
[16:24:04] <FatPhil> to create a new language with all of the idiocy of perl, and no redeeming features
[16:24:39] <FatPhil> I'm never going to install it, and will sneer at anyone who says that they program in it.
[16:24:46] <Konomi> Was: $str =~ m/^\d{2,5}\s/i
[16:24:47] <Konomi> Now: $str ~~ m:P5:i/^\d{2,5}\s/
[16:24:55] <Konomi> look we made regex even more confusing
[16:25:00] <FatPhil> If you're going to use a different language from perl5, *use a good one, you bloody idiot*.
[16:25:33] <SemperOSS> Hey, what's wrong with BASIC?
[16:26:12] <Konomi> Was: my $len = length($string);
[16:26:14] <Konomi> Now: my $len = $string.chars;
[16:26:21] * Konomi runs off into the distance screaming
[16:26:28] <FatPhil> oooh - more OO!
[16:26:41] <Konomi> we never even had dot notation in the language why now?
[16:27:20] <SemperOSS> Object-orientators of the world, unite!
[16:27:27] <FatPhil> my $a = @array; say $a.WHAT; # prints Array
[16:27:58] <Konomi> I've looked at this page many times about to start a perl6 program just to learn
[16:28:02] <SemperOSS> Instead of ref($a)?
[16:28:07] <Konomi> and every time I have noped out of it
[16:28:50] <Konomi> it made me get over my hatred of white space as code blocks in python
[16:28:51] <FatPhil> yeah, because ref wasn't SHOUTY enough (or OO enough)
[16:28:57] <FatPhil> Was: split ' ', "foo $bar bat"
[16:28:57] <FatPhil> Now: <<foo $bar bat>>
[16:29:06] <Konomi> why ref returned caps I'll never know
[16:29:12] <Konomi> oh god yeah again why
[16:29:55] <SemperOSS> So what if I want to split on, say, ':'?
[16:30:14] <AndyTheAbsurd> I'm never going to get over my hatred of whitespace as code blocks in Python
[16:30:16] <FatPhil> tr/:/ / first! :D
[16:30:39] <SemperOSS> (I could obviously look that up somewhere but this is more fun)
[16:30:40] <AndyTheAbsurd> That's why I'm going to make Viper, a language that uses {} as code blocks but is otherwise identical to Python.
[16:30:49] <FatPhil> AndyTheAbsurd: ditto. it's pretty much my only complaint, but it's a big one
[16:31:21] <Konomi> I'll take whitespace as blocking over perl6 any day
[16:31:45] <AndyTheAbsurd> FatPhil: the fact that I can't hit % in vim to jump between beginning and end of a code block really pisses me off.
[16:31:46] <Konomi> also pretty sure someone has done that for python btw
[16:31:51] <FatPhil> And I shall implement lusa that is identical to lua but allows assignment as expressions, but requires ';'
[16:32:03] <Konomi> https://github.com
[16:32:05] <upstart> ^ 03mathialo/bython
[16:32:11] <Konomi> Python with braces. Because Python is awesome, but whitespace is awful.
[16:32:46] <SemperOSS> Braces make one-liners possible, at least
[16:33:45] <SemperOSS> I love one-liners and especially APL, the most obscure real-world (sort of) language
[16:34:29] <FatPhil> DAFUQ??!?!?! Notice that $1 starts at $0 now, and /e is gone in favor of the embedded closure notation. - so what if I want the replacement string to have {} in?
[16:37:25] <FatPhil> Ug, now followed a link to: https://perl6.org
[16:37:27] <upstart> ^ 03Apocalypse 5: Pattern Matching
[16:43:49] * Konomi closes page slowly
[16:59:42] <SemperOSS> Any ideas of how to stream a webcam from an RPi and store the video locally in 5 minute sections, say. The RPi is headless.
[17:00:01] <SemperOSS> s/store/also store/
[17:00:03] <exec> <SemperOSS> Any ideas of how to stream a webcam from an RPi and also store the video locally in 5 minute sections, say. The RPi is headless.
[17:02:53] <hopdevil> have you already figured out how to capture the video?
[17:03:10] <hopdevil> ffmpeg is the go to tool for most streaming video needs
[17:04:55] <hopdevil> https://stackoverflow.com
[17:04:56] <upstart> ^ 03Save continuous RTSP stream to 5-10 minute long mp4 files
[17:07:51] <SemperOSS> No, I haven't really looked into it, so streaming (hopefully without a full Apache or Tomcat installation) is one issue and the storing another.
[17:08:22] <hopdevil> ya rtsp is how to stream it
[17:09:06] <hopdevil> to be lightweight
[17:09:30] <hopdevil> then if you want a server to host the stream it is relatively easy, wont burden the pi
[17:11:22] <SemperOSS> I was thinking more like streaming and storing on the RPi to make the stream available from somewhere else (password protection a must)
[17:16:55] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Where You Can Get after Logging 4000 Hours in KSP - http://sylnt.us - out-of-this-world!
[17:18:02] <hopdevil> https://www.vultr.com
[17:18:03] <upstart> ^ 03Vultr: High Performance SSD Cloud.
[17:18:23] <hopdevil> if you are OK with nginx running the stream
[17:19:17] <hopdevil> there is probably a full solution out there for such things, but I wouldn't know of one
[17:23:08] <SemperOSS> I'll try to have a look round. I could, sort of, live with nginx but had hoped to find a smaller, dedicated solution
[17:26:37] <SemperOSS> hopdevil: Thanks for the pointers
[17:27:30] <hopdevil> ya np, sorry I only know the implementation of said thing, not turnkey solution
[17:34:07] <SemperOSS> Coffee++
[17:34:07] <Bender> karma - coffee: 4303
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[18:28:19] <Konomi> https://medium.com
[18:28:20] <upstart> ^ 03How to Design for the Modern Web – Commit Log – Medium
[18:28:27] <Konomi> tea++
[18:28:27] <Bender> karma - tea: 592
[18:56:53] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Co-Founder of Salesforce Buys Time Magazine for $190 Million - http://sylnt.us - AOL-Time-Warner
[18:58:56] <chromas> He forgot about prompting for notifications and location tracking
[18:59:25] <chromas> Some sites even put up a dialog asking before they tell the browser to ask
[19:00:51] <chromas> lol, medium follows his rules even "pardon the interruption..."
[19:04:27] <chromas> Why do they want me to give them the clap for their stories?
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[19:25:13] <FatPhil> awww - attempting to configure a new RasPi3 powered only by a phone's powerbank...
[19:34:26] <Konomi> the clap, okay then xP
[19:39:36] <SemperOSS> FatPhil: It's possible but I find many phone banks cannot draw more than 500 - 1000mA and some will not charge the connected unit while being charged itself
[19:40:27] <SemperOSS> I've got one that can deliver 2.5A+ but cannot draw more than ~1A
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[20:25:54] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Molecule Produced During Fasting has Anti-Aging Effect on Vascular System - http://sylnt.us - old-man-with-young-blood-[vessels]
[20:28:10] -!- FatPhil [FatPhil!~luser@2-727-666-42.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #Soylent
[20:28:11] <exec> welcome FatPhil: Tallinn, Harju County, Estonia, 13°C/56°F, 11:28 pm GMT+3, Monday, 17 September 2018
[20:29:09] FatPhil is now known as SoyGuest50348
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[22:07:10] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Coca-Cola Is Eyeing the Cannabis Market - http://sylnt.us - Also-boosting-snack-food-market
[22:54:05] -!- Ethanol-fueled [Ethanol-fueled!~ae4448bf@SectorZeroZeroOne] has joined #Soylent
[22:54:07] <exec> welcome Ethanol-fueled: San Diego, CA, 26°C/79°F, 3:54 pm PDT, Monday, 17 September 2018
[22:54:12] <Ethanol-fueled> RIP Linux Kernel
[22:54:38] <Ethanol-fueled> It looks like a few of Sarah Sharp's fat-butted buddies have won the war and are forcing Linus out.
[22:55:17] <Ethanol-fueled> But the real hinderance to Linux wasn't Linus,
[22:55:24] <Ethanol-fueled> It was that dipshit fuckerbrain Shuttleworth
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[22:56:17] <hopdevil> mic drop?
[23:01:45] -!- Runaway1956 [Runaway1956!~guy@69.57.ruj.vij] has joined #Soylent
[23:01:47] <exec> welcome Runaway1956: Dallas, TX, 34°C/93°F, 6:01 pm CDT, Monday, 17 September 2018
[23:02:03] <Runaway1956> Hey guys - a spam mod needs to be modded
[23:02:09] <Runaway1956> https://soylentnews.org
[23:02:11] <upstart> ^ 03SoylentNews Comments | Linus Torvalds Taking a Break From Linux Kernel Maintainership ( https://soylentnews.org )
[23:02:53] <Runaway1956> Sorry, not my post, the post I responded to
[23:02:58] <Runaway1956> https://soylentnews.org
[23:03:00] <upstart> ^ 03SoylentNews Comments | Linus Torvalds Taking a Break From Linux Kernel Maintainership ( https://soylentnews.org )
[23:03:30] <Runaway1956> It's a silly parody thing - not spam.
[23:07:57] <chromas> Going back to the Linux thing, they're probably gonna sneak in dbus now
[23:14:10] <hopdevil> it is challenging to resist community/commercial pressures in 2018
[23:15:56] <hopdevil> Linus was a strong of a personality, but the be-nice school will fix that
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[23:18:37] <chromas> Looks like he needs to disown his kid
[23:46:51] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Emerging Australian Jobs in the New Millenium - http://sylnt.us - Evolve-or-retire-dept
[23:57:19] <takyon> Mr. Linux Torvalds is a menace.
[23:57:31] <takyon> Intel should become the new maintainer of Linus.
[23:58:06] <chromas> Why not Nicrosoft?
[23:58:35] <hopdevil> they will buy it from intel