#Soylent | Logs for 2017-04-11
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[00:06:45] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Rash of in-the-Wild Attacks Permanently Destroys Poorly Secured IoT Devices - http://sylnt.us - another-brick-in-the-wall
[00:08:06] <takyon> http://hosted.ap.org
[00:08:08] <exec> └─ 13independentmail.com: AP News
[00:08:30] <takyon> https://www.sciencedaily.com
[00:08:32] <exec> └─ 13The first live-attenuated vaccine candidate completely protects against Zika infection: One shot with 10 live-attenuated vaccine particles triggered full immune response and completely prevented mice from Zika virus infection -- ScienceDaily
[00:08:41] <takyon> https://www.sciencedaily.com
[00:08:42] <exec> └─ 13The first live-attenuated vaccine candidate completely protects against Zika infection: One shot with 10 live-attenuated vaccine particles triggered full immune response and completely prevented mice from Zika virus infection -- ScienceDaily
[00:08:53] <takyon> https://www.sciencedaily.com
[00:08:54] <exec> └─ 13Three quarters of deep-sea animals make their own light -- ScienceDaily
[00:09:06] <takyon> https://www.sciencedaily.com
[00:09:09] <exec> └─ 13Putting a spin on logic gates: Research collaboration develops a prototype for a spin-wave majority logic gate that uses wave interference for information processing -- ScienceDaily
[00:09:20] <takyon> https://www.sciencedaily.com
[00:09:21] <exec> └─ 13Potential new treatment to treat and stop progression of cystic fibrosis -- ScienceDaily
[00:09:39] <takyon> https://www.sciencedaily.com
[00:09:40] <exec> └─ 13Forget sponges: The earliest animals were marine jellies -- ScienceDaily
[00:11:46] <takyon> https://www.sciencedaily.com
[00:11:47] <exec> └─ 13Ultra-thin multilayer film for next-generation data storage and processing -- ScienceDaily
[00:15:29] <Bytram> https://arstechnica.com
[00:15:31] <exec> └─ 13Game patches boost performance on Ryzen, showing just what can and can’t be done | Ars Technica
[00:16:33] <takyon> I subbbed it already
[00:17:35] <takyon> https://soylentnews.org
[00:17:37] <exec> └─ 13Game Optimization Narrows the Gap Between Intel Core CPUs and AMD's Ryzen: SoylentNews Submission
[00:18:26] <Bytram> takyon: thanks! just happened to see the story on ars and wanted to pass it along -- glad you got it covered already!
[00:18:33] <Bytram> takyon++
[00:18:33] <Bender> karma - takyon: 32
[00:19:53] <Bytram> break time
[00:20:06] <takyon> https://www.sciencedaily.com
[00:20:07] <exec> └─ 13Hubble spots auroras on Uranus -- ScienceDaily
[00:20:10] <takyon> COMPOSITE IMAGE CONSPIRACY
[00:32:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> fuckin hell. links extravaganza.
[00:50:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> takyon, excellent catch
[00:50:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> #submit https://www.nasa.gov
[00:50:23] <MrPlow> Unable to find a title for that page
[00:50:24] <exec> └─ 13404 | NASA
[00:50:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> fuckin nasa
[00:50:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> i'll do one up later
[00:51:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> time to put on some house slippers and pajama pants and go to wal-mart
[00:55:27] <cmn32480> ~gday TheMightyBuzzard
[00:55:28] * exec romantically hangs a trigger warning sign about a tarball of grammar's fried chicken on TheMightyBuzzard
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[01:12:04] <exec> welcome Runaway1956: Dallas, TX, USA, 21°C/70°F, 8:12 pm GMT-5, Monday, 10 April 2017
[01:36:55] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Canonical Founder Derides Mir Criticism "as Irrational as Climate Change or Gun Control" - http://sylnt.us - politics
[01:46:21] * TheMightyBuzzard returns bearing groceries
[03:37:55] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - University of Alberta's Ice Core Collection Suffers From "Meltdown" - http://sylnt.us - historical-slushies
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[05:05:29] -!- mode/#Soylent [+v n1] by Aphrodite
[05:05:31] <exec> welcome n1: Montevideo, Montevideo Department, Uruguay, 16°C/60°F, 2:05 am GMT-3, Tuesday, 11 April 2017
[05:06:23] -!- nick has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[05:17:46] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Cyberattacks via CIA Tools Happened a lot, Symantec says - http://sylnt.us - [redacted]
[07:25:53] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - African Elephants Transport Seeds Further Than Any Other Land Animal - http://sylnt.us - peerless-among-seeders
[08:55:37] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Game Optimization Narrows the Gap Between Intel Core CPUs and AMD's Ryzen - http://sylnt.us - gooder-faster-cheaper
[09:53:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> ~gday Bytram
[09:53:39] * exec literally offers a D cup of herpes to Bytram
[09:53:47] * TheMightyBuzzard is prolly gonna win
[09:54:03] <FatPhil> ~gday TheMightyBuzzard
[09:54:04] * exec sexually impales a basket of underwear on TheMightyBuzzard
[09:54:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> yup
[09:54:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> ~gday FatPhil
[09:54:26] * exec hideously tosses a terabyte of regulations to FatPhil
[09:54:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh, yer not bytram
[09:54:40] <TheMightyBuzzard> ~blame
[09:54:41] * exec points at Bytram
[09:54:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> coffee++
[09:54:42] <Bender> karma - coffee: 3346
[09:55:57] <FatPhil> I have a cylindrical open-topped filing cabinet for regulations, that was very easily processed
[09:59:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> true but I got free drawers
[10:00:25] * TheMightyBuzzard debates fixing up the underlying irc library MrPlow and Talos use so that it tracks nick changes and putting in a pull request
[10:26:48] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - New Software is Better at Tracking Individuals in a Crowd - http://sylnt.us - parasol-sales-soar
[11:10:47] -!- n1 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
[11:54:01] TheMightyBuzzard is now known as tmb
[11:54:05] tmb is now known as TheMightyBuzzard
[11:57:58] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Top Trump Donor and Big Data Billionaire Helped Tip Election, Now Works to Reshape Media - http://sylnt.us - did-runaway-and-OO-switch-bodies?
[12:05:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> #pissoff
[12:05:22] <MrPlow> Off I shall piss...
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[12:07:01] Talos is now known as stealthed
[12:08:07] stealthed is now known as Talos
[12:10:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> that's right, bitches. MrPlow finally tracks nick changes!
[12:11:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> celebratory smoke time
[12:11:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> smoke break
[12:11:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> nicotine++
[12:11:04] <Bender> karma - nicotine: 354
[13:37:16] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - SEC Targets Fake Stock News on Financial Websites - http://sylnt.us - ow-who-ya-gonna-trust?
[13:55:53] <TheMightyBuzzard> #submit http://thefreethoughtproject.com Would this matter in a nation where money is mostly plastic nowadays anyway?
[13:55:53] <MrPlow> Submitting. There is a mandatory delay, please be patient.
[13:55:54] <exec> └─ 13Texas Bill to Establish Gold & Silver as Legal Tender, Dealing Massive Blow to Federal Reserve
[13:56:19] <MrPlow> Submission successful. https://soylentnews.org
[14:00:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> #submit https://motherboard.vice.com
[14:00:54] <MrPlow> Unable to find a summary for that page
[14:01:05] <TheMightyBuzzard> blerg
[14:02:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> #submit https://www.openbsd.org
[14:02:03] <MrPlow> Unable to find a summary for that page
[14:02:11] * TheMightyBuzzard makes a rude gesture
[14:03:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> #submit https://torrentfreak.com
[14:03:56] <MrPlow> Submitting. There is a mandatory delay, please be patient.
[14:03:58] <exec> └─ 13Kim Dotcom Takes Fight Over Seized Millions to US Supreme Court - TorrentFreak
[14:04:22] <MrPlow> Submission successful. https://soylentnews.org
[15:04:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> bleh. i need to find an rpg that supports lan play rather than mmo.
[15:07:27] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - AMD Acquires Nitero, a Maker of Wireless Chips for VR Headsets - http://sylnt.us - next-up:-chipless-wires?
[15:41:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> maybe planeshift with a local server
[16:36:36] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Nvidia Compares Google's TPUs to the Tesla P40 - http://sylnt.us
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[17:48:36] -!- mode/#Soylent [+v nick] by Aphrodite
[17:48:37] <exec> welcome nick: Montevideo, Montevideo Department, Uruguay, 21°C/69°F, 2:48 pm GMT-3, Tuesday, 11 April 2017
[18:17:55] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - April 13th NASA Briefing on Ocean(s) Near Saturn (or Elsewhere) - http://sylnt.us - water-water-maybe-somewhere
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[19:55:38] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Moderation can Undo DMCA Safe Harbour, Appeals Court Rules - http://sylnt.us - so-long-and-thanks-for-all-the-fish?
[20:00:22] <mechanicjay> Trying to move into a Mac at work -- the only think that's really driving me nuts is window behavior and window management.
[20:01:05] <mechanicjay> moving into is too strong a work, seriously testing out, is more accurate.
[20:02:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> hehe, no alt-drag getting you down?
[20:03:19] <mechanicjay> no window edge snapping is a big one
[20:03:49] <mechanicjay> high-light/middle click for copy/paste is another one
[20:03:58] <mechanicjay> though that does work in the "terminal" app
[20:04:08] <mechanicjay> the terminal app has some irritating limitations
[20:04:39] <mechanicjay> especially when it comes to scripting something which needs to spawn its own terminal window
[20:04:59] <mechanicjay> you basically need a shell script, and a wrapper.
[20:05:39] <mechanicjay> The wrapper fires off the new termial and tells it to run the script, but you can't just tell a new terminal window to run a command arbitrarily, only pass it a file to run.
[20:06:43] <mechanicjay> I might end up wiping this and just dumping linux on it. It's an 8-core Mac pro from 2010 with 28GB of RAM -- seemed ashame to let it hit Surplus.
[20:07:26] <chromas> 28?
[20:07:34] <chromas> Does 4 go to video?
[20:08:26] <mechanicjay> No, I just couldn't find 2 more 4 GB modules to max it out at 32. So, I have 6 x 4GB modules, and 2 x 2GB modules.
[20:08:53] <chromas> Nice
[20:09:17] <chromas> How's the single-menu-at-the-top-of-the-screen?
[20:09:52] <mechanicjay> Takes up an annoying amoutn screen real estate at times, and I keep forgetting to look there, rather than the top of the active window for the application menus.
[20:10:11] <mechanicjay> but I've used enough OSX over the years where it's not too bad.
[20:12:06] <mechanicjay> Although, spread across 2 screens with 4000 pixels vertically....I think it's a UI paradigm that's past it's sell by date. On one small screen, it's fine, multiple monitors makes it kinda silly, huge horizontal resultion doubly so.
[20:12:24] <mechanicjay> sorry, 4000 pixels horizontally
[20:13:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> knod knod. task bars really should not span monitors
[20:13:54] <mechanicjay> Especially, since with this re-donkulous wide-screen aspect ratios, I"ll end up using like 1/2 of each screen for a different application.
[20:14:29] <mechanicjay> at least it's smart enough to keep the taskbar for the application that's at the top of each different monitor
[20:14:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> thas good at least
[20:15:04] <mechanicjay> But when I have 4-6 visible at any one time..
[20:15:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> but yeah, i'm not of a mind to switch off linux even for free
[20:15:57] <mechanicjay> fuck, I just realized what's been irritating the crap out of me.
[20:16:13] <mechanicjay> It takes two clicks to manipulate something in a window that's not active.
[20:16:29] <mechanicjay> 1 click to activate, 1 click to do an operation.
[20:17:01] <mechanicjay> In linux, with a single click, I can, for example, make FF active and close a tab.
[20:17:32] <chromas> So a widget doesn't click if the window's not active?
[20:17:39] <mechanicjay> correct
[20:17:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> oooh, that'd suck for sure
[20:17:47] <chromas> terrible
[20:18:07] <mechanicjay> Yeah, that's a super questionable UI design choice -- almost like the UI was first invested in 1984 or something....
[20:18:15] <mechanicjay> s/invested/invented/g
[20:18:15] <sedctl> <mechanicjay> Yeah, that's a super questionable UI design choice -- almost like the UI was first invented in 1984 or something....
[20:18:23] <TheMightyBuzzard> "don't just focus but send the click through as well" is the way to go.
[20:18:53] <TheMightyBuzzard> you could always set it to focus follows mouse, no?
[20:19:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> or is that only linux, bsd, and windows you can do that on?
[20:20:01] <mechanicjay> LOL, apparently, you need a 3rd party plugin to enable that system-wide. Some applications have that feature baked into them.
[20:20:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> wow
[20:20:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> that's cocktarded
[20:21:13] <mechanicjay> it seems the unintented consequence of focus-follows-mouse is that if you're trying to get to the application menu bar at the top, you would in-advertandly switch applications as you swept your mouse across the screen.
[20:21:32] <mechanicjay> another demerit for the top menu bar -- it enforces other UI idocy.
[20:21:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> i think that's intended and the guys who invented it were bastards
[20:22:18] <mechanicjay> Eh, I'm going to give this a week or two -- if it pisses me off too much, I might BSD it.
[20:22:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> go fer it. i don't have any spare hardware right now so i'm keeping everything running an OS i enjoy using.
[20:23:12] <mechanicjay> ...or go back to the box they gave me when I walked in the door two years ago -- but that thing majorly pissed me off yesterday too, from a hardware perspective.
[20:23:53] <mechanicjay> The Videocard fan started grinding away like a mofo, I went to grab a new card off the spares shelf, found a pretty nice one. Went to plug it in...
[20:24:16] <mechanicjay> Mother fucking dell...there's no auxillary power available in the box.
[20:24:37] <mechanicjay> worse, all the power from the hard drive runs through the goddamned motherboard.
[20:24:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> just go in there and be like "bitches, i need a 32 core ryzen with 256GB of ram and half a dozen 4TB drives in two raid 5 arrays
[20:25:53] <TheMightyBuzzard> make -j64, baby
[20:25:56] <mechanicjay> :)
[20:26:11] <mechanicjay> I'll have my new kernels compiled in seconds!
[20:26:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> damned skippy. it'd be a crying shame to NOT run gentoo on something like that.
[20:28:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> smoke break
[20:28:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> nicotine++
[20:28:06] <Bender> karma - nicotine: 355
[20:37:32] <mechanicjay> Also the home/end keys don't really do what you expect them to.
[20:39:27] * TheMightyBuzzard shakes his head
[20:39:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> fuckin apple
[20:40:46] <mechanicjay> The real plus side to running an octo-core Mac is that, the heatwash is keeping me warm :0
[20:52:45] <chromas> Do they have a real delete key yet?
[20:52:58] <mechanicjay> Depends on the keyboard ;)
[20:53:10] * chromas recalls Delete working like Backspace
[20:53:41] <TheMightyBuzzard> some devs just need an ass whoopin
[20:54:20] <mechanicjay> On this full keyboard, though both keys are labeled "Delete", the long one over the pipe key, works as a backspace and the delete key over in the home/end cluster, works as a delete key.
[21:27:26] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - The Dark Secret at the Heart of Artificial Intelligence - http://sylnt.us - do-you-know-how-you-think?
[21:29:26] * mechanicjay is annoyed that he has access to more computing power than he can possibly use.
[21:29:40] <mechanicjay> it's like, what's the point of it all?
[21:30:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> porn
[21:30:57] <lemon> maybe you can't find a use for it all, but I have very important uses for this increased computing power
[21:31:25] <lemon> like running waifu2x on 16 cores
[21:31:48] <mechanicjay> TheMightyBuzzard: I need bandwidth for porn, not more cores.
[21:33:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> you need the cores to transcode the pron you downloaded for streaming to your phone/home/etc...
[21:33:53] <mechanicjay> I mean professionaly, the most demanding thing my desktop does is search my local email archive or run a web browser -- sure my servers get busy, but at my desk, fuck, I could do 98% of my job with a dumb terminal and a serial connection to any *nix box.
[21:34:23] <mechanicjay> I'm not really in to trans-porn....
[21:34:52] <TheMightyBuzzard> don't tell anyone that. then you won't get the shiny new kit.
[21:35:13] <mulita> Only the web browser and the Terminal matters, even on OSX
[21:35:42] <mulita> i'm currently on a iBook G4 with OSX10.4, usable because of TenFourFox ESR 45
[21:35:45] <mechanicjay> mulita: plus email and chat clients.
[21:35:46] * TheMightyBuzzard goes to listen to watch the roomie drool over his new guitar for a bit
[21:36:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> mechanicjay, have you considered joining our f@h team?
[21:36:29] <mulita> email is mutt through SSH, chat clients... well, I have X-Chat Aqua 0.16
[21:36:39] <mechanicjay> mulita: as much as I love my powerbook G4, I gave up on it as any js heavy site just brings the poor thing to it's knees.
[21:37:11] <mechanicjay> mechanicjay: not sure about using govt resources for that -- though I guess I'm using them to talk to you basterds....
[21:37:26] <mulita> yeah, youtube is a feat on this iBook, it lags
[21:37:51] <mechanicjay> mulita: The joke of course is that, it didn't when it was new.
[21:38:50] <mechanicjay> mulita: a lot of the mac-ports stuff just doesn't build on a PPC anymore, which really started limiting the usefullness of the G4 to me at that point.
[21:38:51] <mulita> and forget about Facebook and Twitter, those are JS intensive and peg the G4 CPU at 100%
[21:38:54] <chromas> mechanicjay: you need the power for running 6GB of javascript on the internet
[21:39:04] <mechanicjay> chromas: yep
[21:40:38] <mechanicjay> js -- I"m pretty sure that's Chrome is winning the browser wars -- each tab gets its own process so it can use all your cores to run shitty javascript, giving the feel of performance, where FF is still stuck timeslicing across a single process.
[21:40:45] * chromas reads the rest of the backscroll...oh
[21:41:16] <mulita> well, i'm retro enough to make do with old versions of MacPorts
[21:41:40] <mechanicjay> I guess FF, finally started to spawn different processes for different bits of the browser, but honestly it's too little too lage. The process/tab thing should have been a wake up call to them years ago.
[21:41:45] <chromas> Firefox now has a separate process thing but all the tabs still go into that one separate process
[21:42:29] <mechanicjay> Yeah, fucked-up tab will still severly impact your page-render time
[21:42:29] <chromas> Should have one process per javascript
[21:45:02] <lemon> honestly the best thing about new CPUs is virtualization, being able to pretend there's dozens of machines running on top of one beefy one is pretty handy
[21:45:04] <mechanicjay> mulita: No new Java is also a killer on the G4 as keeping things like Eclipse and NetBeans up-to date became impossible
[21:45:19] <mechanicjay> lemon: Damn straight.
[21:45:30] <mulita> latest java for OSX 10.4 is Java 1.5
[21:46:08] <mulita> but i don't care about Java, although this make is unsuitable to make network gear
[21:46:14] <mechanicjay> I think I got 1.6 by bumping to 10.5
[21:46:29] <mulita> "makes it unsuitable to manage network gear"
[21:47:10] <mechanicjay> Every so often I power up my G4, make sure things work, update TenFoxFour and the thunderbird equivelant....and shut it off.
[21:47:11] <mechanicjay> :(
[21:47:56] <mulita> mechanicjay: it let mine stay at Firefox 1.0.8, hahaha, email is just email
[21:48:10] <mulita> Thunderbird 1.0.8, damn
[21:48:50] <mechanicjay> need a newer version of lightening to hook up to my caldav server
[21:49:48] <mulita> which brings up ActiveSync, got a workable solution for that?
[21:50:34] <mechanicjay> mulita: you know, it's been so long since I've heard that term, I can't actually remember what it is anymore.
[21:50:41] <mulita> I kept my email on UW-imapd with MBX folders, waiting for the Linux's Exchange replacement since about 2004...
[21:51:24] <mulita> My email is still on that UW-imapd install, on Debian Sarge no less, works fine, it's fan-less
[21:52:35] <mulita> I'm still waiting for something which does Webmail, IMAP/SMTP-submission, Calendaring/Contacts and ActiveSync in Linux
[21:53:13] <mulita> I know about Zimbra, but I won't go Java, sorry
[21:53:32] <chromas> KDE. Bwahahahaha!
[21:53:49] <mulita> KDE?
[21:54:11] <mechanicjay> yeesh -- good luck. I've got most of that cobbled together with various packages, save for the activesync part -- for a while the Evolution Mail package was pretty damn good with their Exchange connector -- can't remember why I stopped using that....
[21:54:13] <mulita> Will my Android phone sync the KDE Contacts and Calendar?
[21:54:50] <mechanicjay> webmail: squirellmail
[21:54:50] <mechanicjay> IMAP: Dovecot
[21:54:50] <mechanicjay> SMTP: Postfix
[21:54:50] <mechanicjay> Calendar: OwnCloud
[21:55:40] <mechanicjay> I ran Zimbra for a while as well, gave up when I needed to a double-step upgrade to get current, and cobbled together the soup I have now -- which has actually been easier to manage.
[21:55:58] <mulita> I have squirrelmail, but sorry my phone won't sync to squirrelmail's Contacts or Calendar, nor will ThunderBird.
[21:56:35] <mechanicjay> right because squirrelmail is simply a client with some local niceties, just like thunderbird.
[21:56:36] <chromas> owncloud also does contacts
[21:57:17] <mechanicjay> chromas: I though it might, but I don't really use contacts.
[21:57:22] <mulita> The point in to have ONE repository for email, ONE for Contacts, and ONE for Calendars, and there access that single info repository from Mobile, Desktop and Webclient. This is the Holy Grail
[21:57:34] <chromas> There's a shitty bookmarks plugin too but there's no folders
[21:57:55] <chromas> google has that
[21:57:57] <chromas> <:D
[21:58:00] <mechanicjay> lol
[21:58:18] <mechanicjay> I think there maybe a squirelmail plugin to access the owncloud stuff
[21:58:21] <mechanicjay> that would pretty much get you there
[21:59:09] <mechanicjay> on my android phone, I use "CalDAV Sync" to hook up to my owncloud calendar -- I bought it about 5 years ago and it's worked flawlessly since -- not sure if theres a different/better solution out there now.
[21:59:14] -!- jasassin [jasassin!~jasassin@923-919-40-91-ktkgfbv.midco.net] has joined #Soylent
[21:59:22] <jasassin> hey anyone here i got a dumb question
[21:59:28] <mulita> Yeah, google has that, but who want's to dump his own personal info into google? Many people!, that's true, but not me
[21:59:32] <jasassin> how do you add someone as a friend on the website?
[21:59:36] <jasassin> i can't figure it out
[21:59:39] <jasassin> i feel so fucking stupid
[22:00:07] <chromas> Go to their profile
[22:00:11] <mechanicjay> get to their profile, click the "friend" icon, change
[22:00:41] <jasassin> thanks man
[22:00:41] <chromas> oh I didn't know the icon did that too
[22:01:04] <mechanicjay> how else do you get there?
[22:01:12] <mechanicjay> oh fuck, the relations tab....derp
[22:01:35] <mulita> I'm migrating a client from Exchange 2003 to Exchange 2010 at work, and I'm revisiting all what Exchange offers, and Oh My God! Linux is far from there yet
[22:02:21] <mulita> There is promise in a new protocol, JMAP, but it remains to be seen if it gets any traction
[22:02:55] <chromas> I haven't seen any clients supporting it yet
[22:03:01] <mechanicjay> huh
[22:03:24] <mechanicjay> http://jmap.io
[22:03:26] <exec> └─ 13JSON Meta Application Protocol Specification (JMAP)
[22:03:30] <mulita> the JMAP standard is not yet set, I think is still on the ITF standards track
[22:04:15] <jasassin> just curious what is the feature that is missed the most?
[22:04:38] <mulita> JMAP is the open source equivalent to Exchange's RPC-over-HTTP, but using JSON
[22:04:55] <chromas> We should start a competitor. XMAP
[22:04:59] <chromas> You know what that is
[22:05:04] <jasassin> pffft
[22:06:20] <mulita> the feature missed the most is "single info repository". Imap server cannot store Contacts nor Calendars. Imap client cannot access webmail's Contacts or Calendar, Thunderbird does not yet do CardDav.
[22:06:33] <mulita> the list of shortcomings is long
[22:06:47] <jasassin> informative
[22:07:27] <mechanicjay> you see short coming, I see feature. I'm free to choose a different/better calendar/contact/whatever system over some 1/2 assed integrated solution.
[22:07:32] <mechanicjay> 1 tool, 1 job.
[22:08:03] <mechanicjay> that said, jmap is a pretty interesting concept.
[22:08:06] <mulita> One info, multiple access vectors (Mobile, Desktop, Webclient)
[22:08:35] <mulita> Then you choose the mobile client you want, the desktop client you want, the webclient frontend you like
[22:09:06] <mechanicjay> My biggest issue with IMAP is that the protocol has stagnated, and yes, that has been causing issues.
[22:09:20] <mulita> the protocol should be JMAP, at least for Webclient Access and for Desktop Access; for Mobile, ActiveSync would be fine
[22:09:26] <mechanicjay> ..to the point where an entirely new protocol is not a bat-shit idea, rather than an IMAPv5
[22:11:19] <mulita> IMAP made great sense when you had to use PINE to read your email, or else you had no email to read
[22:11:53] <mulita> Now with Smartphones always-on on weak data links, IMAP is a problem instead of a solution
[22:12:13] <mechanicjay> I suppose? I have zero issues with IMAP mail on my phone.
[22:12:39] <mulita> that is what JMAP tries to solve, but will it be adopted by the developers of email tools? That remains to be seen
[22:13:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> imap never made sense. i don't have use for an email server that thinks it's supposed to do anything but deliver all of my mail when i ask for it. everything else is the client's job.
[22:13:19] <mulita> there is currently no momentum behind free email protocols and server tools, Gmail and Office 365 are killing that need for a lot of peopole
[22:13:48] <mechanicjay> fuck no, IMAP was a god-send over the bad old days of POP.
[22:14:01] <TheMightyBuzzard> pop4life!
[22:14:59] <mechanicjay> mulita: like everything else in this cespool of an industry, "free" corporate shit to trap you.
[22:15:06] <mulita> IMAP works great in the desktop, and certainly is a several steps above POP in usefulness
[22:15:40] <mulita> but IMAP does not do Contacts nor Calendaring, it could do them but the protocol would need to be extended, again
[22:16:03] <mulita> nobody wants to extend IMAP again
[22:16:13] <mulita> there is just no momentum for that
[22:17:08] * TheMightyBuzzard is sticking with pop, telnet, and a really large terminal backbuffer.
[22:17:24] <mechanicjay> how big is your backbuffer?
[22:17:31] * TheMightyBuzzard checks
[22:17:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> 100k lines currently
[22:18:12] <mulita> TheMightyBuzzard: if you go telnet, you don't need POP, just run mailx
[22:18:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> mulita, telneting to the pop port
[22:18:33] <mechanicjay> TheMightyBuzzard: haha, ditto.
[22:18:37] <mulita> ah, ok, you are joking
[22:18:40] <mulita> :-)
[22:19:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> it's nice. you don't have to worry about attachments or embedded html/js/images
[22:19:55] <mulita> Yeah, but mutt is betters, and higlights quoting, etc.
[22:19:57] <mechanicjay> fuck html in email
[22:20:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> mulita, ya but i actually have checked mail that way before.
[22:20:59] <mechanicjay> crap, did anyone here ever run Pegasus/Mercury mail?
[22:21:51] <mulita> I did run Pegasus on Win 3.1
[22:22:07] <mulita> Mercury originated on NetWare, but I run it some on NT4
[22:22:40] <mechanicjay> The Mercury MTA was my first home mail server.
[22:22:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> nah. until i installed claws mail this past month i'd been using /usr/bin/mail and gmail
[22:22:59] <mechanicjay> Mercury -> Zimbra -> FOSS Soup
[22:23:49] <mulita> UUCP -> Sendmail -> Exim -> Postfix (I never did anything serious with Mercury)
[22:24:10] <mechanicjay> nerdwar: Sendmail vs Postfix
[22:24:13] <mechanicjay> Postfix++
[22:24:13] <Bender> karma - postfix: 1
[22:24:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> never did uucp. for mail anyway.
[22:24:51] <mulita> uucp for email was hell, you had to compute the maps to route the email path on your own
[22:25:01] <TheMightyBuzzard> noice
[22:25:12] <mulita> you had to pay for dial up, or dial up locally
[22:25:47] <mulita> you wanted to pay for other's email traffic, you had to make arrangements with nearby UUCP operators
[22:25:56] <mulita> "not wanted to pay"
[22:26:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> ooooh! finally got planescape compiled!
[22:27:26] <mulita> Does anyone remember PostPath? It was a opensource drop-in replacement for Exchange 2003
[22:27:37] <mulita> It was bought by CISCO, and then it was killed
[22:27:41] * TheMightyBuzzard shakes head
[22:27:53] <mechanicjay> nope.
[22:28:05] <mulita> it had promise
[22:28:58] <mulita> so there are two problems: 1- The single information store; 2- The multivector access to it.
[22:29:54] <chromas> Store everything in github
[22:30:02] * chromas passes The Cloud around
[22:30:19] <mechanicjay> I can resel some cloud to you
[22:30:29] <mechanicjay> s/resel/resell/g
[22:30:29] <sedctl> <mechanicjay> I can resell some cloud to you
[22:30:36] <mulita> perhaps not a bad idea, chromas; and make JMAP interface with the Git repository
[22:30:42] * lemon takes a hit
[22:30:51] * lemon passes to the left
[22:31:13] <chromas> cloud, cloud, pass
[22:31:26] <lemon> duuude redundancy above hardware level man
[22:31:41] <lemon> :-)
[22:31:44] <mulita> clouds disappear when exposed to the sun
[22:32:14] * chromas builds a Cloud made of VMs all on the same server
[22:32:34] <mechanicjay> chromas gets it.
[22:32:58] <mulita> well, IMAP itself is already a "cloud concept"
[22:33:05] <mulita> from the '80s
[22:33:15] <mechanicjay> I have this hung on my office door: https://xkcd.com
[22:33:17] <exec> └─ 13xkcd: The Cloud
[22:35:08] <mulita> well, i have to go now
[22:35:17] * mulita goes away
[22:35:45] <mechanicjay> later mulita
[22:35:53] * TheMightyBuzzard waves
[22:36:34] <chromas> TheMightyBuzzard: s/.*/pecks/
[22:36:34] <sedctl> <chromas> <TheMightyBuzzard> pecks
[22:40:42] * mechanicjay goes to let his clouds rain.
[22:56:35] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Smell Helps Primates Flee Parasites - http://sylnt.us - does-this-smell-funny-to-you?
[23:06:55] -!- SoyCow0547 has quit [Quit: Web client closed]
[23:17:37] <soy673> whoa, there are actual Communists posting on soylent, looks like the site has gone mainstream now
[23:17:41] <soy673> TheMightyBuzzard: congrats
[23:21:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> soy673, cheers
[23:21:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> #socialist soy673
[23:21:51] <MrPlow> soy673, you're a socialist!
[23:22:10] <soy673> oh noes, I must repent to the local political officer now
[23:22:53] <TheMightyBuzzard> da, comrade
[23:23:36] <soy673> Marx, Lenin, Stalin, Che, I have sinned for I have worked for the fortune500 capitalist pig dogs for slave wages, instead of being the vaguard for the workers revolutionary party
[23:26:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> right, time i was looking into feeding myself before it gets to be bedtime
[23:30:12] <mechanicjay> ooo, where the Commies at? gotta link?
[23:33:29] <soy673> mechanicjay: any time Trump is mentioned :)
[23:33:41] <soy673> https://soylentnews.org for one
[23:33:47] <exec> └─ 13Top Trump Donor and Big Data Billionaire Helped Tip Election, Now Works to Reshape Media - SoylentNews
[23:34:28] <soy673> go to the mirror at 12am, chant Trump's name 3 times, a commie will show up behind you and scream how you're wrong :)
[23:36:42] <mechanicjay> sorry, my eyes glazed over trying to get through that comment thread -- the only useful thing I saw was the the pointer to politicalcompass.org -- which I point people to on a regular basis
[23:38:16] <soy673> politicalcompass is alright I guess
[23:38:26] <soy673> but then you have things like "When it comes to The Working Class/workers' rights, all of the entities you mentioned are lukewarm at best--and you can forget any mention from them of workers' collective ownership of the means of production."
[23:38:52] <soy673> advocating collectivism
[23:40:24] <mechanicjay> as with most things, there's a specturm. I think a little more collectivsm in the US probably wouldn't hurt -- might start to pull us out of the weath disparity black-hole we're falling into.
[23:41:00] <soy673> coming from where this has been tried, I distrust any form of it
[23:41:02] <mechanicjay> Still though, not so much collectivsm to damnpen the entrepenurial spirit. Maybe just less of an "I got mine, fuck you" attitude would be nice.
[23:41:51] <mechanicjay> fair enough.
[23:42:18] <soy673> it's always fine to be charitable and donate freely, but when it becomes law, that's when things get hairy
[23:45:51] <mechanicjay> I think if we could work out as a society, the things we things we should be providiing to support "society", it becomes easier to see where money should come from /go to. As it stands now, even simple social services get chucked under the bus because "it's just another .01% tax for the government to waste". Which starts to get me dangerously close to my rant on taxes -- which I'm going to try to avoid.
[23:46:23] <mechanicjay> though I suppose the problem lies in working out the agreement, right?
[23:47:05] <mechanicjay> "Education is important" is Universal. Now, decend into madness about how to support education to the maximum benefit of society.
[23:47:32] <soy673> heh, I've just seen how "social service" is used for money laundering and kidnapping, we'll never have nice things
[23:47:53] <soy673> and "indoctrination" as "education"
[23:48:15] <soy673> deliberately teaching a whole generation wrong so they'll be dependent on you
[23:48:26] <soy673> can't ever have nice things
[23:50:04] <soy673> I've also seen how funding/commisions for the arts is basically a complex form of bribery and money laundering
[23:50:48] <soy673> I sure wouldn't want my tax money to be funding these kinds of "art" and "charity"
[23:51:49] <mechanicjay> Are you arguing that because something has the possiblity to become corrupted, we shouldn't ever do it?
[23:52:14] <soy673> if it's corrupt most of the time, yeah we shouldn't be doing it
[23:53:24] <soy673> bottom line is, it's easy to be charitable when it's not your money