#Soylent | Logs for 2014-10-23

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[00:01:52] <chromas> the wikipedia banner is at the bottom this year
[00:01:57] * SpallsHurgenson watches a "Let's Play" of Alien: Isolation and comes to the conclusion the guy playing the game is an idiot
[00:02:23] <SpallsHurgenson> no wonder developers keep dumbing down games
[00:02:47] <chromas> Press X to not die
[00:02:57] <nick> i watched the AngryJoe review of Alien: Isolation
[00:03:03] <nick> summary is, better than Colonial Marines
[00:03:08] <SpallsHurgenson> <gamer presses "Y" and wonders why he dies>
[00:03:24] <chromas> SpallsHurgenson: the best is when they're randomized
[00:03:33] <nick> QTE's are kind of lame, but they do serve a purpose at times.
[00:03:47] * SpallsHurgenson reviewed the game: it was okay but not worth $60 (or 20 hours of your time)
[00:03:48] <nick> I've been playing farcry3 lately and the QTE's are not too bad in it.
[00:04:13] <nick> but i am very much disliking the linear nature of the main story missions
[00:04:57] <SpallsHurgenson> the gameplay in FC3 was pretty good; the story and characters were terrible
[00:05:08] <nick> yeah, i havnt actually listened to any of the story
[00:05:15] <nick> just wanting the cutscenes to be over
[00:05:21] <SpallsHurgenson> I don't think I ever rooted for the protagonist (e.g., my character) to die before :)
[00:05:33] <nick> Vaas was pretty cool though
[00:05:47] <nick> aside from that, all the other characters are just dull
[00:07:35] <SpallsHurgenson> if Vaas was the douchebag badguy, his character was the worst; uninteresting and unrealistic, a one-note asshole that drained the life from the game :)
[00:09:26] <nick> there is that as well, but realism isn't exactly a key in this game from what i can tell
[00:09:47] <nick> but at least the voice acting, Vaas so far has been the only character ive come close to believing, however unrealistic
[00:10:04] <nick> none of the others have given me any reason to listen to what they're saying
[00:10:29] <SpallsHurgenson> if you found vaas believable, I worry about the people you hang out with :) :) :) :) :)
[00:10:40] <nick> lol
[00:10:40] <ciri> HEY! don't laugh at me
[00:10:47] <nick> i said the voice acting, not the character
[00:10:48] <SpallsHurgenson> still, I rather enjoyed the open world
[00:11:15] <SpallsHurgenson> Ubisoft also knows how to feed my OCD by not only placing trinkets all across the world but also by showing them on the map :)
[00:11:47] <nick> heh
[00:12:02] <SpallsHurgenson> if everything was hidden, I wouldn't bother looking for them but FarCry3 is all, like, "Oh, there's a box just thirty-miles thataway! I must get it!"
[00:12:23] <nick> i didn't actually do any of the missions until i captured all the outposts on the first island, which kind of threw the experience for me i think
[00:12:55] <SpallsHurgenson> they do the same thing with the assassin's creed games: I play the scavenger hunt for 20 hours, then whip through the story in one :)
[00:13:10] <nick> which was annoying, after having some decent fun doing that
[00:13:13] <nick> then going into the missions
[00:13:19] <nick> and being forced to do things a certain way
[00:13:33] <SpallsHurgenson> FarCry3 has mission boundaries too, if I remember
[00:13:37] <SpallsHurgenson> those were really annoying
[00:13:40] <nick> yeah
[00:13:45] <nick> thats part of whats been annoying me
[00:13:50] -!- hka has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
[00:14:28] <nick> same with the not letting get to the second island until youve done enough missions
[00:14:40] <SpallsHurgenson> "Hey, here's this huge open world! But you can't take advantage of any of it in the missions, nyah!"
[00:15:16] <nick> i approached some missions from the wrong direction which made them impossible, until i got killed and respawned at the right place
[00:15:21] <SpallsHurgenson> the last big island (which may be the second, I don't remember) was very disappointing too
[00:15:22] <nick> and then it was like "oh well now it's obvious"
[00:15:45] <nick> i have only just got to the second island
[00:15:51] <SpallsHurgenson> I wasn't crazy about the crafting either, which seemed bolted on because you know, "crafting is cool"
[00:16:30] <nick> it's forced, which i dont like, cant carry more ammo until you get a specific animal skin
[00:16:33] <nick> just seems bullshit
[00:16:34] <SpallsHurgenson> but the scavenging, wandering and free-roam missions were fun and since that was 90% of the game I'm not gonna bash too much of the game
[00:16:56] <SpallsHurgenson> get three kangaroo pockets to carry extra grenades!
[00:17:29] <nick> im now at the point where i need to do specific quests to get the right skins to craft better stuff
[00:18:01] <nick> and playing the way i have been, i ended up with 12 skill points and no skills to use them on, because i hadnt done any missions
[00:18:13] <SpallsHurgenson> I miss the fire from FarCry 2 though :)
[00:18:26] <nick> it's the first one ive played, what was good about 2?
[00:23:01] <SpallsHurgenson> well, you could set the grass on fire and it would spread; that's pretty much it :)
[00:25:08] <nick> doesnt farcry3 do the same pretty much?
[00:25:11] <nick> or was it much worse
[00:25:18] <SpallsHurgenson> I think the gunplay was slightly more satisfying (less dependent on spray-n-pray tactics) but it was otherwise fairly similar to FC3. The respawning AI, lack of quick-travel and malaria and degrading weapon mechanics were annoying
[00:25:46] -!- idetuxs [idetuxs!~idetuxs@534-545-403-965.prima.net.ar] has joined #Soylent
[00:26:02] <nick> i get my fill of that kind of stuff from Fallout
[00:26:03] <SpallsHurgenson> the blazes in FC2 got really big, making it a useful part of your arsenal. The fires in FC3 are miniscule in comparison.
[00:26:27] <nick> i havn't used the fire much at all really in FC3, mostly sniper rifle and sneak attacks.
[00:26:42] <SpallsHurgenson> trust me, FC2's degrading weapons were ten times worse. You'd shoot three times and then have to unjam the damn thing
[00:26:54] <nick> well that does sound unpleasant
[00:27:27] <nick> i get that experience from DayZ though with only having 3 bullets in the first place lol
[00:27:33] <SpallsHurgenson> well, it was part and parcel of making the whole world feel run down and undependable, but as a gameplay mechanic it was annoying
[00:28:18] <SpallsHurgenson> the problem I had with DayZ is that even though I logged some serious hours into the game, I never found any loot
[00:28:40] <SpallsHurgenson> I mean seriously, I think my total haul from several weeks of playing was two cans of beans
[00:28:46] <nick> cans of sardines, pork and beans are loot!
[00:28:47] <nick> haha
[00:29:07] <nick> i dont know when you were playing but i never had that
[00:29:16] <SpallsHurgenson> I never found a gun, or any other weapon, or medkits or a backpack or anything
[00:29:29] * SpallsHurgenson played the ARMA2 mod back when it first got popular
[00:29:32] <nick> one of the problems the mod had/has was that sometimes loot would take a while to spawn
[00:29:51] <nick> i'm still on the mod, which has kind of faded now
[00:29:56] <nick> but has been replaced by DayZ Epoch
[00:30:11] <nick> which adds new dimensions to it
[00:30:35] <SpallsHurgenson> that's the one they make you pay for, right?
[00:31:00] <nick> no
[00:31:33] <nick> it's just taken over from the DayZ mod, because of how slow they were updating it i think.
[00:31:47] <nick> there's a few variants which are easy to get if you get the DayZ Commander
[00:32:08] <SpallsHurgenson> well, I'm not in much of a rush to go back either way
[00:32:13] <nick> Epoch has a trading/merchant system as well as AI bandits
[00:32:33] <nick> it's not something i play much, it does require a lot of time
[00:33:04] <nick> which is why i was quite happy with FC3, just able to jump in for short sessions
[00:33:45] <SpallsHurgenson> short sessions don't work with ubisoft games for me; as I said, the scavenger-game aspect triggers my OCD.
[00:34:10] <nick> yeah, i dont have that
[00:34:16] <nick> a friend that i play games with however does
[00:34:32] <nick> which manifests itself in a terrible way with fallout, looting all the burned books in the world
[00:34:42] * SpallsHurgenson envies nick the ability to ignore the little white markers on the map
[00:34:47] <nick> and then having to do the impossibly slow crawl back to the trader, to trade it all for caps
[00:35:09] <SpallsHurgenson> Skyrim is bad like that too; did you know it is possible to crash the game by carrying too much loot? :)
[00:35:50] <nick> i never found out, but getting fallout isn't known for being the most stable game in the world
[00:35:55] <nick> and i never played skyrim
[00:36:23] <nick> they need to get off their asses and release fallout4 already
[00:36:46] <SpallsHurgenson> I'm like a vaccuum cleaner in those games. I just hoover up anything that isn't nailed to the floor :)
[00:36:49] <paulej72> do you know in real life you will be unstable and crash if you carry too much
[00:37:19] <nick> SpallsHurgenson, my friends motivation was to get as many caps as possible
[00:37:38] <nick> and to never spend them!
[00:37:48] <SpallsHurgenson> I dunno, I'm lugging around 7*10^^27 atoms right now and there hasn't been a dip in framerate :)
[00:37:53] <paulej72> PKUJHTRFGUIJBBGTRDHYTRFBNKOIYFDCBNJHFC, i have unlimited caps
[00:38:21] <nick> lol
[00:38:35] <nick> x2
[00:38:44] <nick> paulej72++
[00:38:44] <Bender> karma - paulej72: 89
[00:38:47] <nick> SpallsHurgenson++
[00:38:47] <Bender> karma - spallshurgenson: 9
[00:38:57] <paulej72> that should be LOL LOL
[00:39:05] <SpallsHurgenson> paulej72: you seem to be running short on As, Es, Ms, Qs, Ss, Vs Xs, and Zs :)
[00:39:43] <paulej72> too far from the center of the keyboard
[00:40:43] <nick> all this talk of gaming, forgot i was actually editing a story
[00:41:27] <juggs> hello world
[00:41:38] <paulej72> jello
[00:41:50] <SpallsHurgenson> juggs, the speaker-to-planets
[00:42:28] <juggs> if only they'd listen ~sigh~
[00:42:43] <SpallsHurgenson> who says they don't LISTEN?
[00:43:14] <SpallsHurgenson> just 'cause they don't follow your advice doesn't mean they don't hear what you are saying :)
[00:43:15] <paulej72> you need to yell really loud for them to hear though
[00:43:45] <SpallsHurgenson> well, except for Saturn of course.
[00:44:03] <paulej72> in space noone can hear you scream
[00:44:06] * SpallsHurgenson glares at the ringed planet
[00:45:05] <paulej72> if we blow up io jupiter will have some nice rings
[00:45:51] <SpallsHurgenson> hey I have plans for Io. That's where my power-generation plants are going!
[00:47:49] <SpallsHurgenson> between the gravitational and io flux from jupiter, I figure I'll be able to power up my death ray in no time!
[00:47:53] <SpallsHurgenson> erm...
[00:48:25] <SpallsHurgenson> s/deathray/magic cuddly bunny generator/
[00:48:53] <juggs> ooh look... a squirrel!
[00:50:10] <SpallsHurgenson> oh no, I won't fall for that trick again! that's how I lost my last three deathr^h^h^h^h^h^h cuddly-bunny-generators!
[00:50:26] <juggs> damn
[00:50:52] <SpallsHurgenson> and worst of all, I never did catch the squirrel!
[00:53:00] <juggs> it's tricksy like that, one second you see it, the next you don't. I think it may be fitted with a cloaking device.
[00:53:25] <SpallsHurgenson> new Kinect SDK available for PC, if you feel MS/NSA doesn't spy on you enough and want to help :) http://blogs.microsoft.com
[00:53:48] <paulej72> what the squirrel. that is one damn small cloaking generator
[00:54:27] <paulej72> does the kinect still work with tape over the lenses
[00:55:08] <juggs> it's a squirrel to us. In fact it is a trans-dimensional being - the cloaking generator is of course in the much larger part in another dimension we as yet cannot observe.
[00:55:22] <SpallsHurgenson> I guess it partially would. It uses both IR and optical light to do its thing; tape probably would block only the latter
[00:55:30] <paulej72> ok fair enough
[00:56:58] <SpallsHurgenson> gigabit DSL... yeah, I'm sure the local ISPs will invest in this technology http://www.cnet.com
[01:03:38] <nick> they might, for their internal networks, cram more subscribers down the lines.
[01:03:55] <nick> expand their capacity but not your service
[01:04:38] <juggs> Gbps at <= 50 metres - yeah, that's going to be a huge cost to deploy, particularly in more sprawling locations. In denser populated areas it would make as much sense to just blow the fibre to the property rather than faff about with nodes handling a handful of subscriber lines each.
[01:05:16] <nick> the fuck
[01:05:24] <nick> <= 50 meters?
[01:05:33] <nick> whats the point
[01:05:43] <juggs> A 200-meter distance will still be good enough for about 600Mbps
[01:06:11] <SpallsHurgenson> not good enough! who can survive on a mere 600Mbps?
[01:06:19] <nick> well that is something, if it works in the real world
[01:06:24] <juggs> My telco cab is ~800 metres
[01:07:37] <juggs> Hyperoptic are doing good things in London and some other places with their fibre to the premises
[01:08:23] <nick> have FTTC at one of my locations, and it's shite.
[01:08:30] <nick> absolute shite.
[01:08:59] <nick> have it as the failover to a virgin connection.
[01:09:07] <nick> when it should be faster/better
[01:10:06] <juggs> well "should" depends on distance to the cab and whether it's one of those places that has aluminium rather than copper tel lines - Al lines seriously knacker DSL transmission
[01:10:19] <nick> it's very close to the cab
[01:10:27] <nick> but it's in an area where there's a lot of businesses
[01:10:40] <nick> so it's just congested all the time
[01:10:46] <nick> checking out hyperoptic now
[01:11:34] <nick> dont get me started on aluminum, nearly got scammed for 1200m of CCA 'Cat5e' a few months ago.
[01:12:12] <juggs> they're mostly serving multi-tenancy buildings I think, but if you happen to be in an area they are serving they seem happy to bespoke a fibre run for far less eye-watering amounts than the usual suspects
[01:12:48] <paulej72> just catch a trans dimentional squirrel and attach an ethernet cable to its tail, once he switche dimentions you will have really good internet
[01:13:14] <paulej72> it just might not be to earth's
[01:13:40] <SpallsHurgenson> watch out for the cthulhu-porn
[01:13:46] <nick> I like the wikipedia article on Hyperoptics
[01:13:57] <nick> "Hyperoptic is the first company in the UK >to claim< to deploy gigabit services to residents."
[01:13:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> ya, tentacles would be the least of your worries
[01:14:13] <juggs> and there may be no atmosphere... but let's skip the finer details for now, the project manager can deal with those as they come up :D
[01:16:08] <juggs> http://www.thinkbroadband.com
[01:16:09] <NetCraft> ^ 03thinkbroadband - Hyperoptic broadband deals
[01:17:55] <SpallsHurgenson> <sigh> half the price for 13x the speed
[01:19:52] <juggs> Hmm "Packages (based on 3GB transfer)" - how useful for a pricing guide. Here's our 1Gbps offering prices based on the premise that you don't really intend to use it for much lol
[01:20:42] <SpallsHurgenson> oh, I didn't see the cap; that would suck
[01:21:14] <SpallsHurgenson> 45GB is the highest they go? I think I use more than that on my current connection
[01:21:35] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - To FBI Director Comey: You Reap What You Sow! - http://sylnt.us - boom-time-for-rights
[01:23:32] <juggs> I can survive on ~2GB/month but that takes some serious inconvenience to achieve with today's content heavy webtastica
[01:23:54] <SpallsHurgenson> I probably use 2gb a day
[01:24:35] <nick> well one must consider, how does hyperoptics plan to make money
[01:24:54] <paulej72> you rip what you will sew
[01:24:59] <nick> all that time and effort and everything involved in running FTTP, charging low monthly fees
[01:25:07] <nick> how are they going to make money and get a RoI
[01:25:44] <nick> sorry, i forgot, thats now how business works anymore.. It's all about making massive losses and then getting bought out by a large corporation
[01:25:49] <paulej72> with venture capital you do not need roi
[01:25:55] <nick> indeed
[01:26:21] <nick> the wikipedia says the founders started up another ISP a few years ago, got bought out in about 18months.
[01:26:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> paulej72, we should get some venture capital.
[01:26:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> or adventure capital. we could go lion hunting in africa with it.
[01:27:15] <paulej72> too bad we are 15 years late to that boat
[01:27:41] <TheMightyBuzzard> ran out of lions?
[01:28:05] <TheMightyBuzzard> deep sea oil rig fishing then. they sposedly got lotsa fooshes.
[01:30:22] <juggs> nick, wouldn't surprise me if they are running it as a pump it and dump it operation. Not really a concern with relatively short subscriber contracts.
[01:33:00] <juggs> I don't see how they can last in the longer term, they're essentially providing fibre infill for the areas that Openreach currently consider economically unviable. However, other similar fibre projects have found to their cost that when they start doing that kind of infill suddenly Openreach finds the area economically viable and pops up to provide vdsl services, squashing them out of business.
[01:37:02] <juggs> What kind of bandwidth do you need for your business stuff nick?
[01:53:28] <nick> 1 server, 4 clients probably 300GB month transfer
[01:53:42] <nick> i'll catch up in a minute
[01:53:47] <nick> am watching some crap on tv
[01:54:25] <juggs> damn, it's nearly 3am - is there really anything on at all? :D
[01:54:43] <nick> who watches live tv anymore lol
[01:55:24] <juggs> I more meant peak throughput (bps) rather than monthly transfer
[01:55:57] <nick> i dont know, i'm never there tbh, i just have a desk that gets buried in other peoples paperwork 95% of the time
[01:57:16] <nick> there's only downstream really for the 4 client pc's, i'm the only person who connects to the sever remotely.
[01:58:02] <nick> so whatever downstream people use when streaming, playing facebook games and generally not focusing on work.
[01:59:07] <nick> we get about 60Mbps down and 20MBps up on a good day, with the virgin connection. I the BT Infinity is about half that on a good day.
[02:00:54] -!- JamesNZ [JamesNZ!~james@43-567-441-22.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #Soylent
[02:01:20] <nick> juggs, with hyperoptics, the only thing i can see is it's a short term deal
[02:01:38] <nick> fill in for BT and then sell-out to BT
[02:03:05] <nick> will the 'superconnected cities' be getting them £££ from the .gov?
[02:03:43] <juggs> Quite possibly.
[02:04:24] -!- Azrael has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
[02:04:42] <chromas> zollard--
[02:04:42] <Bender> karma - zollard: -1
[02:10:52] <juggs> I was just thinking that if as a business you supply connectivity as part of the bundle you may want to consider taking a wholesale / reseller account with someone like talktalk business or virgin business or even forming a spin-off small isp that buys in from BTWholesale. Just a thought to cut your costs.
[02:11:39] <nick> yeah, we came to that conclusion a few weeks ago as it happens lol
[02:11:49] <nick> so thats a very good idea ;)
[02:12:17] <nick> although not with talktalk
[02:12:29] <nick> have nothing good to say about them
[02:13:51] <juggs> tt residential is indeed woeful when it comes to customer service. The actual network and LLU product offering is sound, it's just the service wrap is crap for resi. tt business is a different beast.
[02:14:34] <nick> tt resi is the first place i had problems with for some clients, but now another (not one of my clients) has problems trying to migrate some business accounts away from tt
[02:15:10] <nick> this is not so much a technical issue
[02:15:24] <juggs> are those lines with noth voice and dsl on TT? ie full mpf?
[02:15:36] <juggs> both*
[02:15:41] <nick> there's a mix
[02:15:43] <nick> lots of lines
[02:16:01] <nick> it's not something im directly involved with though, i'd be doing it differently if i was lol
[02:16:24] <nick> where we have been looking at going, to do the reselling
[02:16:35] <nick> is www.icuk.net
[02:17:20] <juggs> smpf (dsl only) - should just be a MAC and done. Full mpf is a complete ballache for all providers as a lot of the process gets tripped up dependent on where the phone number originally came from.
[02:17:46] <nick> i read 'comms dealer' sometimes, which is a horrible industry press and icuk has been the only vaguely straight talking company to be featured
[02:17:48] -!- Bytram|away [Bytram|away!~pc@Soylent/Staff/Developer/martyb] has joined #Soylent
[02:17:48] -!- mode/#Soylent [+v Bytram|away] by juggler
[02:18:14] <nick> that seems to be some of the problem indeed
[02:18:22] <nick> and hello to Bytram|away
[02:18:48] Bytram|away is now known as Bytram
[02:19:03] <Bytram> nick: g'day!
[02:19:26] <nick> how are you good sir?
[02:19:30] <Bytram> how's things?
[02:19:34] <Bytram> lol
[02:19:57] <Bytram> been fighting a bit of a stomach bug for a couple days. not bad, just enough to slow me down a bit.
[02:20:02] <juggs> The question is - who are icuk's providers?
[02:20:40] <Bytram> and... my ESR version of FF decided to ignore my request to wait and decided to install it's update from 24ish to 31
[02:20:58] <Bytram> so I just spent the past two days getting palemoon up to speed with all my addons. :(
[02:21:18] <Bytram> nick: and you?
[02:21:34] <SpallsHurgenson> do not doubt the Mozilla; they know better than you :)
[02:21:50] <nick> juggs, afaik, they run everything through BT and for the areas we would be covering it would be im almost certain.
[02:22:04] <Bytram> well, that may be, but they don't "no" better than I do!
[02:22:19] <nick> that sucks Bytram, hope you feel better soon
[02:22:28] <Bytram> nick: BT: Brtish Telecom or BitTorrent?
[02:22:32] <Bytram> thanks!
[02:22:45] <Bytram> mostly over it now. took a nice nap today and that helped
[02:22:45] <nick> British Telecom
[02:22:49] <Bytram> nod nod
[02:23:03] <Bytram> is the buzzard around?
[02:23:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> ya, barely
[02:23:29] <chromas> You can move your FF profile into palemoon's directory, though there're a few extensions it thinks are incompatible
[02:23:34] <Bytram> g'day fine sir! saw you been busy!!!!
[02:23:37] <Bytram> http://dev.soylentnews.org
[02:23:37] <NetCraft> ^ 04SN (dev) comment by martyb (76)
[02:23:41] <juggs> nick, if you're getting into 1000+ line territory then it's time to consider spinning up your own isp and going direct to BTW. Sure there's some regulatory crud to handle but in practise it sounds more scary than it actually is.
[02:23:41] <Bytram> me, too. =)
[02:23:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> little here n little there, yeah
[02:24:20] <Bytram> btw, I suspect that is revealing a bug that also exists on the main site
[02:24:54] * chromas sees Bytram's been violating slash
[02:25:06] <nick> the lots of lines situation is complicated, hands are tied in various ways. for our own stuff i wouldn't want to be managing that many lines, a few hundred would make me happy.
[02:25:08] <Bytram> nah, it asked me for it, I swear!
[02:25:15] <TheMightyBuzzard> yeah, it's on the issues tracker
[02:25:45] <Bytram> also, I've noticed that we seem to not know when to stop when processing named character entities.
[02:25:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> pretty sure i know where it lives but man that's some squirrely code
[02:26:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> yea?
[02:26:04] <SpallsHurgenson> Sup and Sub tags /should/ not be able to go more than one step up or down. heh
[02:26:12] * Bytram offers TheMightyBuzzard some acorns to feed the squirrels
[02:26:40] <Bytram> SpallsHurgenson: I can imagine a case where two are required
[02:27:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh you mean the double n triple encoding, that's about as fixed as i can get it. it's cause by erroneously doing encoding before it goes into the db which should not happen ever.
[02:27:21] <Bytram> sin(e<sup>(2 *pi)<sup>2</sup></sup>)
[02:27:40] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: that's the one.
[02:27:47] <Bytram> it bit me on the main site a couple days ago.
[02:28:03] <Bytram> saw a couple commenters got bit by it.
[02:28:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> Bytram, the number of levels of sub/sup is a db setting
[02:28:15] <Bytram> seems to also eat up parts of Gewg_'s submissions.
[02:28:20] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: kewel!
[02:28:23] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard++
[02:28:23] <Bender> karma - themightybuzzard: 96
[02:28:28] <Bytram> !woop
[02:28:28] <Bender> woop woop woop (\/) (;,,;) (\/)
[02:28:31] <Bytram> !uid
[02:28:32] <Bender> The current maximum UID is 4817, owned by cats
[02:28:46] * Bytram *so* wants to go and register "dogs"
[02:29:08] <chromas> living together? oh no!
[02:29:09] <TheMightyBuzzard> going to have to sift through a LOT of code and find out where we're doing encoding prior to putting stuff in the db and make it not happen ever again.
[02:29:13] * chromas checks the twinkie
[02:29:43] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: so, on 4/1, we can set sup/sub level up to 11 so that I can put up a wavy post? =)
[02:29:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> for now the fix on dev should do okay enough though
[02:30:01] <TheMightyBuzzard> sure sure
[02:30:05] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: yeah, that's not a fun task.
[02:30:24] <Bytram> umm, not sure about the dev fix; I'll have to play with it some more
[02:30:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> got an ugly hack that should take care of most of the issues but it's not perfect.
[02:30:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> just a stop-gap
[02:30:50] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: take a look at all the comments on your dev post: http://dev.soylentnews.org
[02:30:51] <NetCraft> ^ 04SN (dev) article 03 recent changes that could use testing 04(12 comments)
[02:30:56] <Bytram> nod nod
[02:31:10] <Bytram> there's patching and then there's fixing. understood.
[02:32:59] <Bytram> from what I can tell on the nested lists; any <OL> that appear within a <UL> end up being treated as <UL>, instead.
[02:33:05] <juggs> nick, fault wise you're looking at 0.5% fault rate at install time and much lower in life. You have to handle those faults regardless of being a reseller of a reseller or being a reseller yourself. If anything shortening the path to BTW makes life simpler and done right it allows you to use lovely things like internal pricing to shuffle numbers around the books as required to be expedient for tax purposes or w/e. Accountants love this game.
[02:33:41] <Bytram> ~weather TheMightyBuzzard
[02:34:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> honestly, i'm considering disabling balanceTags on UL/OL entirely
[02:34:58] <Bytram> hmmmm.
[02:35:05] <Bytram> brb
[02:35:06] <ciri> where you going? Bytram
[02:35:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> one more cigarette then bed for me
[02:36:00] <nick> juggs, i would think with the low volume, especially initially going direct to BTW is not going to be all that cost effective. The general idea is we'll be offering ISP to our existing clients, as part of a larger package.
[02:36:17] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: remove /ul /ol AND(?) /li ???
[02:36:47] <Bytram> hmm, looks like we'll need to keep the </li>
[02:37:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> no i mean just not letting slash try to outsmart bad formatting. if they want to format it poorly, that's their problem.
[02:38:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> the entire problem is caused by slash removing, moving, and readding the closing tags
[02:38:36] <Bytram> ok... I'm curious as to how we do it. do we run HTML Tidy on their submission?
[02:38:43] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: nod nod
[02:39:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> mostly the sub named balanceTags in Slash::Utility::Data
[02:39:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> some bits above that too though
[02:39:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> all hand coded
[02:39:51] <Bytram> I can see how removing and readding them could cause some troubles.
[02:39:55] <Bytram> ugh.
[02:40:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> seriously pondering telling it to just leave OL, UL, and LI tags alone
[02:40:29] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Xerox Alto - Source Code Released - http://sylnt.us - it-belongs-in-a-god-damn-museum
[02:40:37] <Bytram> comment filter is getting in my way...
[02:40:40] <Bytram> let me try again.
[02:41:13] <juggs> Fair enough nick. I was just speaking from a decade or so working in ISP land, having that direct relationship with the underlying supplier (BTW, BTOpenreach, C&W et al.) is worth more than just the headline numbers on a spreadsheet would suggest. But I suppose it needs weighing against the danger it could distract from the main business.
[02:43:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> think i'll do html encoded diacritics tomorrow
[02:43:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> easy nuff if you know the ranges.
[02:43:37] <Bytram> is there some magic I'm missing in trying to get past the "postercomment" compression filter?
[02:43:46] <TheMightyBuzzard> no idea
[02:43:50] <Bytram> I've added two paragraphs of lorem ipsum and it's still complaining
[02:44:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> it should read anything except whitespace as good text
[02:44:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> you dealing with lists?
[02:44:33] <Bytram> nod nod
[02:44:45] <chromas> maybe it renders the html and checks the text density :D
[02:44:45] <Bytram> I just added 15kb or lorem ipsum stuff
[02:44:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> let em be for now. it's enough to know that they're broken for the moment.
[02:45:16] <Bytram> maybe the leading spaces...
[02:45:19] <Bytram> one more try
[02:45:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> could be but we strip leading spaces and trailing spaces
[02:45:56] * juggs blames Bytram for everything
[02:46:00] <nick> juggs, i really appreciate your insight and we are looking carefully at it. In a pretty good position to weigh up the options too which helps a lot.
[02:46:08] * TheMightyBuzzard nods to juggs
[02:46:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> all Bytram's fault. he broke stuff.
[02:46:33] <nick> i might ask for that insight again ;)
[02:46:35] <nick> indeed.
[02:46:43] <nick> Damn you, Bytram.
[02:48:24] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: I will have you know that I most certainly did *not* break stuff; I'm just locating where someone else broke it. ;)
[02:49:11] <nick> unfortunately for you Bytram, the executive decision was made today that it's all your fault. As you're on both dev and ed teams.
[02:49:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> well you weren't here to speak up so it's done been decided.
[02:49:22] <juggs> any time nick - just ask. Spent a long time in that cesspit market and pretty much know it inside out from an insider's perspective.
[02:49:45] <Bytram> well, I stripped out all the /UL and /OL, then ran it through HTML Tidy, and added 14kb of ipsum lorem stuff and it finally posted... but I just realized that tidy prolly put the ?OL and /UL back in!
[02:49:47] <Bytram> :/
[02:49:53] <juggs> always the way - fail to show for a meeting, you get the actions
[02:50:09] <TheMightyBuzzard> weird
[02:50:32] <Bytram> so does that make me a dev-ed? or an ed-dev?
[02:51:19] <TheMightyBuzzard> dedev
[02:51:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> or ddeev if you wanna be alphabetical about it
[02:51:55] <Bytram> lol
[02:52:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> anywho, 5am is in like 7 hours. ima sleep now.
[02:52:18] <Bytram> just leave out the vowels an I can be a dvd!
[02:52:24] <Bytram> nod nod
[02:52:30] <Bytram> rest well and fast my friend.
[02:52:38] <nick> laters, TMB
[02:52:53] <Bytram> and as I gaze upon the clock I see it's getting late, here, as well.
[02:53:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> nite
[02:53:16] <Bytram> time for me to get some shuteye, too.
[02:53:19] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: g'nite!
[02:53:32] <Bytram> nick: g'nite to ya!
[02:53:38] <Bytram> juggs: au revoir!
[02:53:44] <nick> take care, Bytram
[02:53:50] <Bytram> and ciao to anyone else I missed!
[02:53:55] <Bytram> ttfn
[02:54:00] Bytram is now known as Bytram|away
[02:54:06] -!- Bytram|away has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[02:55:05] <nick> when the US people are going to sleep, it might be a sign.
[02:55:31] <juggs> possibly :D
[02:57:15] <nick> until next time, juggs
[02:57:23] <juggs> take care
[02:58:53] <nick> juggs++
[02:58:53] <Bender> karma - juggs: 32
[02:59:00] <nick> soylentnews++
[02:59:00] <Bender> karma - soylentnews: 6
[03:44:18] <chromas> thought google disabled federation on talk but it's working
[03:47:28] <juggs> someone said something but it was in a dialect I did not comprehend.
[03:49:09] <chromas> s/.*/I thought Google disabled XMPP federation for Google Talk but it is working for me right now/
[03:49:09] <SedBot9000> <chromas> I thought Google disabled XMPP federation for Google Talk but it is working for me right now
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[03:59:18] <juggs> disabling X over thousands of servers takes time. I guess they put it on the "no longer officially supported" list and kill it off gradually as they have reason to visit those servers when rolled into other planned maintenance. The takeaway being - don't rely on it working in the mid to long term.
[04:00:55] * SpallsHurgenson shakes a fist, "Damn you Microsoft!"
[04:01:30] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Feminism and Programming Languages - http://sylnt.us - can't-we-just-use-Esperanto?
[04:02:24] <chromas> Speaking of microsoft, windows messenger quit working for me the other day. I recall that was being ended. On the other hand, Live Mail supports imap now, so
[04:02:50] <chromas> Ballmer taketh and that new guy giveth something else unrelated
[04:03:38] * juggs scuttles off to check something
[04:03:39] <SpallsHurgenson> don't badmouth Ballmer; he got my cousin through college.
[04:03:44] <SpallsHurgenson> (my cousin sold chairs)
[04:06:11] <chromas> he took muh jub
[04:06:16] <chromas> I was chairman
[04:09:22] <juggs> My ancient MSN login seems to be connecting fine. My more recent account seems to be getting denied by Windows Live ID auth denial... I guess that latter ID got rolled into the Win8 online auth bullshittery. Oh well, scrape contacts and move on. Be prepared to route around such damage.
[04:11:50] <SpallsHurgenson> can I shake my fist and shout "Damn you Microsoft" again anyway?
[04:12:26] <chromas> I hereby authorize up to at least one or more of said fist shakings.
[04:12:35] <juggs> sure - as much as you want. Won't do any good, but if it makes you feel better.... go for it
[04:13:24] * SpallsHurgenson raises his hand to the heavens and loudly curses the Great Evil that is Microsoft as thunder and lightning roils the clouds above
[04:14:13] <juggs> Thor is displeased
[04:14:25] * chromas installs windows in SpallsHurgenson's small devices
[04:14:52] <chromas> What's this? A toaster? → win phone 8
[04:15:46] <chromas> Magic cuddly bunny generator? → Win 10
[04:16:00] * juggs is amazeballs at chromas' fearless tackling of Spall's small devices. I hope you observed the necessary bio-hazard precautions.
[04:17:10] * chromas has some fear but it's overshadowed by amusement of making Spall's small devices touch sensitive
[04:18:48] <SpallsHurgenson> I have no comeback to any of this
[04:19:14] <chromas> That means we haven't touched your devices enough
[04:19:37] * chromas tries sliding some unlock gestures with a finger
[04:19:55] <SpallsHurgenson> right, I think that's my cue
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[04:24:14] <juggs> I can only think chromas found Spall's release code in all that fumbling.
[05:00:11] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - That's PROFESSOR Woz to you, Young Whippersnapper - http://sylnt.us - coolest-person-in-the-universe
[05:35:51] <Konomi> http://media.boingboing.net
[05:35:53] <Konomi> so good
[05:43:03] <chromas> First time I've seen someone print that out and take a picture of it
[06:11:04] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Google's Continued Progress on "Fighting Piracy" - http://sylnt.us - think-of-the-children
[06:11:28] <Konomi> thought that one would be better titled as think-of-the-copyright-holders
[06:12:13] <chromas> They are the children; throwing tantrums and whining all day
[06:15:00] <chromas> "some SEO techniques are thrown out the window". At least something good came of it
[06:16:53] -!- crutchy [crutchy!~crutchy@709-27-2-01.cust.aussiebb.net] has joined #Soylent
[06:17:33] <crutchy> coffee++
[06:17:33] <Bender> karma - coffee: 979
[06:50:23] -!- hka [hka!~hka@simp.aelv.se] has joined #Soylent
[07:16:58] <swiss> coffee--
[07:16:58] <Bender> karma - coffee: 978
[07:17:03] <swiss> especially at this time of day
[07:17:06] <swiss> juggs: no more boost leak
[07:17:09] <swiss> new BOV
[07:17:17] <swiss> though it triggers... later than i'd think it should
[07:17:29] <swiss> i might dedicate a vacuum line to it, and ditch the carbon canister
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[07:50:17] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Stegosaurian Defensive Dexterity - http://sylnt.us - dangerous-dinosaur-defence
[07:55:15] <chromas> Bender: s/c/s/
[07:55:15] <SedBot9000> <chromas> <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Stegosaurian Defensive Dexterity - http://sylnt.us - dangerous-dinosaur-defense
[08:50:48] <ar> juggs: disabling X over thousands of servers takes around an hour.
[09:01:31] <crutchy> ar, why so long? (not that i've ever done anything like it before so i wouldn't know)
[09:02:21] <ar> crutchy: 1) you don't want to update everything all at once - you want to update stuff in batches to make sure things work
[09:02:31] <crutchy> ah
[09:02:55] <crutchy> ar++ # batches bitches!
[09:02:55] <Bender> karma - ar: 8
[09:03:45] <ar> crutchy: 2) you don't want your servers hitting your configuration management servers all at once
[09:21:04] -!- NetCraft has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[09:31:31] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - First Driverless Vehicles for Public Launched - http://sylnt.us - home,-james
[09:33:41] * JamesNZ perks up
[09:35:23] -!- azrael [azrael!azrael@Soylent/Staff/Editor/Azrael] has joined #Soylent
[09:35:23] -!- mode/#Soylent [+v azrael] by juggler
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[10:14:40] <TheMightyBuzzard> coffee++
[10:14:40] <Bender> karma - coffee: 979
[10:15:18] <crutchy> coffee++
[10:15:18] <Bender> karma - coffee: 980
[10:18:05] <paulej72> ceeffo++
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[10:20:17] <prospectacle> evening
[10:21:05] <crutchy> coffee++
[10:21:05] <Bender> karma - coffee: 981
[10:21:07] <crutchy> g'day
[10:21:08] <ciri> hi there crutchy
[10:22:42] <paulej72> i think bender is ignoring me
[10:22:54] <crutchy> !ping-o-death
[10:22:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> dude, what're you up this early for, pj?
[10:22:57] <paulej72> !uid
[10:22:57] <Bender> The current maximum UID is 4818, owned by dracovyrn
[10:23:01] <chromas> space_before_variable++
[10:23:01] <Bender> karma - space_before_variable: 1
[10:23:03] <crutchy> ~time paulej72
[10:23:05] <exec> Thursday, 23 October 2014 @ 6:23 am EDT - Princeton, NJ
[10:23:37] <crutchy> i'm usually pressing snooze on my phone and wishing it was saturday about that time
[10:23:38] <paulej72> sure syntax error. bender is witern in python
[10:24:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> leading space
[10:24:36] <paulej72> i woke up early and decided i would be more cranky if i was awaked half way through a sleep cycle
[10:25:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> likely, yeah. em things is tricky like that.
[10:25:55] <paulej72> plus i nrrd to bitch slap a win 7 box this morning till it behaves
[10:26:17] <paulej72> s/nrrd/need/
[10:26:17] <SedBot9000> <paulej72> plus i need to bitch slap a win 7 box this morning till it behaves
[10:26:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> shouldn't be too difficult. 7 was pretty stable overall.
[10:26:57] <paulej72> it got a bad infection yesterday.
[10:27:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> yick, a luser touched it, didn't they?
[10:27:29] <paulej72> now mcafee will not start the main gui console
[10:27:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> there's yer prollem
[10:27:47] <paulej72> yep luser error
[10:28:30] <paulej72> sure, but this is the standard university av prog
[10:29:09] <paulej72> ok off to shower and get my ass to work
[10:29:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> luck to yas
[10:30:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> believe i'll shoot a few baddies n let the stims kick in before i get on the code
[10:31:22] <chromas> you have stim packs?
[10:31:26] <chromas> playing starcraft?
[10:31:38] <crutchy> schhtzzz
[10:31:48] <crutchy> how do i get outta this chicken shit outfit?
[10:32:07] <crutchy> oh mah gawd... he's whacked
[10:33:05] <TheMightyBuzzard> hmm? no, clash of dreams
[10:35:40] <TheMightyBuzzard> stims = caffeine and adderall in this case
[10:36:09] <TheMightyBuzzard> takes a few before they kick in and i'm in the pipe, 5x5
[10:38:54] <crutchy> (hey vasquez, has anyone ever mistaken you for a man?)++
[10:38:54] <Bender> karma - (hey vasquez, has anyone ever mistaken you for a man?): 1
[10:39:43] <chromas> I don't remember that one
[10:44:15] <TheMightyBuzzard> aliens rather than starcraft
[10:47:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> in the pipe, 5x5 was both
[11:00:36] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Software Glitch Caused 911 Outage for 11 Million People - http://sylnt.us - person-you-are-trying-to-reach-is-not-available
[11:04:50] <chromas> Should have used pascal
[11:14:41] <ar> as if usage of an esoteric/academic programming language would help… not
[11:17:16] <chromas> Talkin' 'bout pascal, not haskell
[11:18:40] <chromas> But yeah, after Ring TFA, someone decided to put in an arbitrary counter limit in place
[11:19:49] <chromas> Plus putting a "not" after heavy sarcasm is redundant 😃
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[11:38:13] <crutchy> http://www.youtube.com
[11:38:13] <NetCraft> ^ 03sh*t that deadmau5 says on ustream - YouTube
[11:45:47] <chromas> Bot needs a de-censor filter
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[12:03:16] <mattie_p> Good morning soylent
[12:04:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> mornin
[12:05:46] <mattie_p> How you doing today MightyBuzzard? You been tearing up slash lately
[12:05:48] <ciri> not sure
[12:14:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> breaking it good this AM in hopes of unscrewing a pooch that was screwed many, many years ago
[12:16:49] <chromas> Replacing the whole thing then 😁
[12:17:03] <mattie_p> yeah, years and years of weirdness there
[12:18:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> someone in their infinite wisdom decided it would be a brilliant idea to do html encoding on a sub before processing or stuffing it in the db. THIS IS WRONG. we do our encoding after and this leads to double encoding.
[12:18:52] <TheMightyBuzzard> plus we don't get to have a clue if the user put in & or &amp; originally because it's already encoded.
[12:19:44] <mattie_p> awesome, so it sanitizes and encodes when we think it should just be sanitized
[12:20:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> essentially. and there are probably some specific reasons but the easiest way to find them is to break it and see what happens.
[12:21:36] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Microsoft on Windows 10 Security Improvements - http://sylnt.us - windows-security-oxymoron
[12:22:37] <mattie_p> breaking is what we do best here
[12:23:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> well breaking is what Bytram does best here. i should have him do it since I'm going to blame him anyway.
[12:24:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> ya know, i'm just not feelin this epic bug hunt today. think i'll do something else.
[12:27:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> html entity diacritics, there we go
[12:35:15] <crutchy> TheMightyBuzzard, s/a/e /
[12:35:15] <SedBot9000> <crutchy> <TheMightyBuzzard> html entity die critics, there we go
[12:41:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> damn, this is kinda a tricky one cause you could conceivably mix literal diacritics with entities and sneak past the limit on them
[12:41:34] <TheMightyBuzzard> really not seeing a solution besides converting the entities to literals
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[13:15:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> mornin, Blackmoore
[13:15:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> coffee++
[13:15:11] <Bender> karma - coffee: 982
[13:15:19] <Blackmoore> coffee++
[13:15:19] <Bender> karma - coffee: 983
[13:15:23] <Blackmoore> mornin
[13:24:29] <crutchy> coffee++
[13:24:29] <Bender> karma - coffee: 984
[13:38:24] <paulej72> TheMightyBuzzard: we do not alwasy encode properly on display, that is why the stuff gets ecoded in the db.
[13:38:53] <paulej72> We need to be real careful with this or we can blow up the site.
[13:39:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> paulej72, yeah i dropped it for now but i plan on blowing it up and then finding everywhere it NEEDS to be fixed instead of broad swathing it
[13:42:52] <TheMightyBuzzard> like nothing actually needs to be encoded to go in the db, it just needs to be encoded for display and a very few points of processing.
[13:43:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> well except >65535 codepoints
[13:44:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> like the slashized links mojo we do needs to have the title= attribute not have quotes in it, which should really be fixed by making ONLY the title= attribute not have literal quotes in it.
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[13:49:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> bleh, i got a fix in for diacritic html entities but i just ain't feeling like testing it right now
[14:00:49] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Ask Soylent: Motherboard and CPU Advice for Linux - http://sylnt.us - 640k-is-enough-for-anybody
[15:02:57] -!- Bytram|away [Bytram|away!~pc@Soylent/Staff/Developer/martyb] has joined #Soylent
[15:02:57] -!- mode/#Soylent [+v Bytram|away] by juggler
[15:03:34] Bytram|away is now known as Bytram
[15:03:57] <Bytram> coffee++
[15:03:57] <Bender> karma - coffee: 985
[15:04:07] <Bytram> ~weather boston
[15:04:08] <exec> Weather for Boston, MA - currently 53°F / 12°C, mostly cloudy, wind N at 5 mph, humidity 91% - Thursday thunderstorm (50°F-59°F / 10°C-15°C), Friday showers (48°F-57°F / 9°C-14°C), Saturday chance of showers (52°F-61°F / 11°C-16°C), Sunday partly cloudy (46°F-57°F / 8°C-14°C) - source: Google
[15:04:20] <Bytram> !uid
[15:04:21] <Bender> The current maximum UID is 4818, owned by dracovyrn
[15:06:30] <mattie_p> Hi Bytram
[15:06:38] <mattie_p> coffee++
[15:06:38] <Bender> karma - coffee: 986
[15:06:45] <Bytram> mattie_p: HEY! How *ARE* you!!!????
[15:06:51] <Bytram> long time no "see"!
[15:06:58] <mattie_p> I know, right?
[15:07:07] <mattie_p> I finallly got a job in IT, so I can IRC all day
[15:07:09] <Bytram> you getting hit with all this rain?
[15:07:15] <Bytram> !woop
[15:07:15] <Bender> woop woop woop (\/) (;,,;) (\/)
[15:07:23] <mattie_p> yeah, about a week straight so far with more on the way
[15:07:37] <Bytram> I gotta tell ya that just made my day! I am *so* happy for you!
[15:07:46] <mattie_p> Thank you
[15:07:57] <mattie_p> I'm going to slowly get back into things here
[15:08:03] <Bytram> nod nod
[15:08:19] <Bytram> I'm sure we can find *somthin* for you to do! =)
[15:08:26] <mattie_p> I bet
[15:08:35] <mattie_p> Need to link up with mrcoolbp
[15:08:49] <mattie_p> That'll get him if he's available
[15:08:54] <Bytram> that would be good.
[15:09:03] <Bytram> I'm sure he'll be happy to hear from you!
[15:09:46] <Bytram> don't know how far out of the loop you've been, but TheMightyBuzzard has joined staff as a developer
[15:09:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> woah, it's a bytram
[15:10:07] <Bytram> and he managed to shoehorn internationalization into the code with UTF-8
[15:10:17] <Bytram> and then managed to turn my brain to mush as I tried to test it!
[15:10:25] <Bytram> yup, just the one. =)
[15:10:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> trust me, coding it's worse
[15:10:58] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: btw, I do not at all relish the idea of trying to untangle the named character entity situation... I just cannot get my
[15:11:07] <Bytram> head around what all happens where.
[15:11:22] <mattie_p> I know about TMB
[15:11:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh i just fixed that.
[15:11:38] <mattie_p> I'm still on the github mailing list, he's blowing up slash all the time
[15:11:44] <Bytram> iow, I apologize if I came off a bit rough last night about finding issues with it and your hacking in a fix.
[15:11:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> the numerical/hex accent entities at least
[15:12:07] <Bytram> mattie_p: yup, I think we hired himn away from Acme explosives company
[15:12:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> feh, s'your job.
[15:12:28] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: I don't follow.
[15:12:48] <mattie_p> Does Wile E. know this? He's about to lose his supplier then?
[15:12:50] <TheMightyBuzzard> &#x300; vs &someaccentname;
[15:13:02] <Bytram> I see those, yes. what did you do?
[15:13:15] <TheMightyBuzzard> https://www.youtube.com
[15:13:15] <NetCraft> ^ 03The Great Divide - Wile E. Coyote - YouTube
[15:13:34] * Bytram no youtubes; connection too slow
[15:14:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> i fixed the ones on the left. had to convert them to their literal characters to do it though or you could go literal+entity+literal+entity+etc... and bypass the counting up filter
[15:14:57] <Bytram> not quite following you yet...
[15:15:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> a&#x300; gets converted to à
[15:16:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> that's two characters there, the a and the accent
[15:16:28] <Bytram> == &#x00FC; == &uuml; == U&#x0308;
[15:16:51] <mattie_p> I'm following so far
[15:16:55] <Bytram> == &#x00FC; == &uuml; == u&#x0308;
[15:16:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> yeah, the named ones like &uuml; i haven't dealt with yet.
[15:17:15] <Bytram> okay. got *that*. so...
[15:17:19] <Bytram> oh!
[15:17:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> light dawns like treacle in the winter...
[15:17:42] * TheMightyBuzzard chuckles
[15:17:50] <Bytram> when you hit a numerical entity that is a combining diacritic, you start a counter and when you reach the limit... is that it?
[15:18:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> ya
[15:18:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> well no, the counter deals with the character ̀not &#x300;
[15:18:58] <Bytram> but, if they combine a numerical character entity AND Named character entities for combining diacritics, those can slip through.
[15:19:02] -!- Tachyon_ has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
[15:19:05] <TheMightyBuzzard> so &#x300; is converted to ̀first
[15:19:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> could have, yes.
[15:19:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> i have that much fixed, now i get to figure out how to deal with named entities.
[15:19:43] <Bytram> ok, I am getting there.
[15:19:53] <Bytram> coffee++
[15:19:53] <Bender> karma - coffee: 987
[15:19:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> must be a list of them somewheres
[15:20:15] <Bytram> ☕++
[15:20:22] <Bytram> :(
[15:20:30] <Bytram> (☕)++
[15:20:30] <Bender> karma - (☕): 7
[15:20:34] <Bytram> lol!
[15:20:56] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: yup; should be. lemme think
[15:21:09] <Bytram> do you have a list of the numerical entities that you trap?
[15:21:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> yeah, well i have the ranges anyway
[15:22:13] <Bytram> close enough. how many ranges?
[15:22:24] * Bytram lessee sierra nevada, appalachian...
[15:22:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> five looks like
[15:22:31] <Bytram> care to share?
[15:22:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> dump to pm
[15:26:39] <Bytram> http://feedproxy.google.com
[15:26:40] <NetCraft> ^ 03Finally! The phone-charging cable you've been waiting for - CNET ( http://www.cnet.com )
[15:27:11] <nick> i didnt know i've been waiting for one...
[15:27:22] <Bytram> neither did Godot.
[15:27:59] <mattie_p> $40? I'll pass, I think
[15:28:30] <Bytram> just need a cup and carry the bits over; who needs a cable anyway?
[15:28:31] <nick> i certainly havnt been waiting to spend $40 on a usb cable
[15:28:46] <Bytram> $40 for a USB cable? Must be a Monster!
[15:29:00] <mattie_p> Amazon produces this: http://www.amazon.com
[15:29:08] <nick> well, they are clearly looking for Apple people
[15:29:18] <Bytram> afk back in a few minutes
[15:29:41] <nick> since the lightning version comes with different colour options
[15:29:56] <nick> which is obviously very important for charging your phone
[15:30:17] <mattie_p> It is, it totally affects performance
[15:30:34] <mattie_p> We can have red v blue v zebra stripe wars
[15:30:45] <nick> lol
[15:30:46] <ciri> i missed it, what are you laughing at? >.>
[15:30:57] <nick> stfu ciri
[15:32:26] <nick> unless i missed something in the article, im failing to see what they did except add a weight to the end of the cable
[15:33:56] <mattie_p> And make it a braided fabric exterior, that seems to be it
[15:34:09] <nick> because no one has ever done that before...
[15:35:17] <nick> wonder how much they paid cnet for that article
[15:35:38] <nick> and managed to get 122 shares on twitter for it..
[15:35:53] <Bytram> back
[15:36:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh okay, it doesn't appear there is an &name; for an umlaut without also including a letter. ditto the rest of them.
[15:37:29] <Bytram> I don't recall seeing any names for the combining diacriticals *themselves*, but there are characters which *include* combining diacritics
[15:37:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> well rather there are but they take up space rather than join the previous letter
[15:37:52] <Bytram> nod nod
[15:38:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> yeah, the ones that include them are fine. i don't really care if they can sneak one more in to the four they're allowed. won't cause a tower.
[15:38:45] <Bytram> ISTR there's some algorithms for canonically combining letters and diacritics
[15:38:54] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: yuppers
[15:39:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> okay, looks like that's done then
[15:41:31] <Bytram> I agree, but I still have a nagging feeling that I can't put my hands on yet that I'm missing something.
[15:42:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> i'll let you think on it then. going to pull request this beastie.
[15:43:45] <Bytram> btw, do you have *any* idea why only *some* lating letters have combining "superscript"s? e.g.: ͨ ͪ ͣ ͬ ͫ ͤ ͩ
[15:43:56] <Bytram> s/lating/Latin/
[15:43:56] <SedBot9000> <Bytram> btw, do you have *any* idea why only *some* Latin letters have combining "superscript"s? e.g.: ͨ ͪ ͣ ͬ ͫ ͤ ͩ
[15:43:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> not a clue
[15:44:46] <Bytram> the combining latin small letters are: aeioucdhmrtvx
[15:44:50] <TheMightyBuzzard> doesn't bug me if they put sup tags around them though. they're welcome to so long as it doesn't make wavey text.
[15:45:26] <Bytram> <sup> ͨ ͪ ͣ ͬ ͫ ͤ ͩ</sup>
[15:45:41] <Bytram> nod nod
[15:46:15] <Bytram> and, IIRC, there are combining small letters that are sort of like subscripts, too.
[15:50:05] <Bytram> hmm, found some more combining latin small letters: ᷚ ᷛ ᷜ ᷝ ᷞ ᷟ ᷠᷠ ᷡ ᷢ ᷤ ᷦ ᷧ ᷨ ᷫ ᷮ ᷱ
[15:52:11] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - If You Keep to this 124-page Security Rulebook, You Can Own a .trust TLD - http://sylnt.us - do-not-.trust-anyone
[15:52:17] <Bytram> from what I can tell in BabelMap, that covers all the superscript (simple) latin characters
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[15:52:58] <Bytram> http://feedproxy.google.com
[15:52:59] <NetCraft> ^ 031.2 Million Networking Devices Vulnerable Due to NAT-PMP Issues | SecurityWeek.Com ( http://www.securityweek.com )
[15:58:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> okay, that's it for me for the day.
[15:58:42] <Bytram> thanks for all your work!
[15:58:48] <Bytram> got a quick question before you go.
[15:58:50] <Bytram> Also removed strip_literal from the text input fields on comment previews. ???
[15:59:11] <Bytram> what did it strip? named character entities?
[15:59:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> yeah, strip literal was being done on the text we filled the text input boxes with.
[15:59:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> no, hang on and i'll tell you
[16:00:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> newline_to_local
[16:00:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> diacritic_max
[16:00:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> encode_html_amp_ifnotent
[16:00:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> encode_html_ltgt
[16:00:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> remove_trailing_lts
[16:00:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> approveTags
[16:00:47] <TheMightyBuzzard> space_between_tags
[16:00:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> encode_html_ltgt_stray
[16:00:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> approve_unicode
[16:01:40] <TheMightyBuzzard> we were basically saying when they hit preview "here, we'll go ahead and correct that for you in the edit boxes even though you can just put whatever you like back in anyway"
[16:01:45] <Bytram> ok. so, we no longer do all that on the comment text entry box when the user hits preview?
[16:02:19] <TheMightyBuzzard> the preview still gets the proper strips done but it was pointless to do it to what we were filling the input boxes with
[16:03:11] <Bytram> ah! and that is what got us into recursive dereferencing of html named character entities.
[16:03:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> and that there was likely the cause of our hit preview and get another level of &amp; added
[16:03:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> yep yep
[16:03:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> every time you hit preview it gets run through the filter again
[16:03:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> instead of just the once like it should be
[16:04:28] <Bytram> ok. I ran into that a couple times on the main site... good catch!!!
[16:04:33] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard++
[16:04:33] <Bender> karma - themightybuzzard: 97
[16:04:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> pj should have already fixed that elsewhere but this removes it from ever cropping up again.
[16:05:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> at least in comments. i'll do journals and editing and subing tomorrow.
[16:06:13] <Bytram> wonderful! thanks a bazillion!
[16:12:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> not actually leaving the computer btw, just done coding until tomorrow. 6h is enough.
[16:13:26] <Bytram> more than enough! much obliged, kind sir, for all you do and have done!
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[17:01:02] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - What Americans Fear Most - http://sylnt.us - unknown
[17:10:22] <Bytram> !uid
[17:10:23] <Bender> The current maximum UID is 4818, owned by dracovyrn
[17:14:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> feed me, seymour
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[17:21:12] <Bytram> methinks mr cray may be unavailable atm
[17:22:25] <Bytram> http://rss.computerworld.com
[17:22:27] <NetCraft> ^ 035K Retina iMac supply tightens | Computerworld ( http://www.computerworld.com )
[17:22:35] <Bytram> 5K??
[17:22:38] <mattie_p> Might be a dumb question, but why do we limit the number of diacritics anyway?
[17:22:52] <Bytram> mattie_p: I'll give you a link... just a sec
[17:23:00] <mattie_p> ok
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[17:23:47] <Bytram> mattie_p: take a look at this: http://lettvin.com
[17:23:48] <NetCraft> ^ 03Rendering Unicode
[17:24:11] <mattie_p> I'll look at it
[17:24:12] <mattie_p> thanks
[17:24:58] <Bytram> someone had the "smart" idea that there is no syntactic limitation to the number of combiningg diacrtical marks you can append to a character, so they tried to put 100 of them onto a single letter. aka "Supercombiner"
[17:25:25] <Bytram> caused lots of problems. we'd like to avoid that happening here.
[17:26:32] <mattie_p> the browser implements the combining of the letter and diacritic, correct?
[17:27:52] <Bytram> yup
[17:28:33] <Bytram> IIRC, pj had to clean up a buncha posts that were playing around with similar things, shortly after we went live with UTF-8 support.
[17:29:56] <mattie_p> Now I'm trying to figure out if there is even a reason for that. Do any actual words require letters with more than two diacritics, much less 4?
[17:30:16] <Bytram> hard to say.
[17:30:34] <AndyTheAbsurd> IIRC, Vietnamese is pretty heavy on the diacritic marks
[17:30:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> big ole world out there, no telling what they'll come up with next.
[17:30:42] <Bytram> I only know English, German, and some Greek and a couple Russian words.
[17:31:19] <mattie_p> TheMightyBuzzard: true that
[17:31:26] <AndyTheAbsurd> "Tôi đã ăn món súp của tôi với một con dao và lái xe của tôi đến chuồng ngựa."
[17:31:31] <Bytram> we had no idea, but figured that seemed to be a safe enough value to start with. if it causes problems, well, it's a system var and we can increase it if the need arises.
[17:31:41] <AndyTheAbsurd> I think that 3rd-to-last character has two diacritics.
[17:31:46] * Bytram offers AndyTheAbsurd a tissue
[17:32:09] <AndyTheAbsurd> I'm gonna need more than a tissue to clean up that mess
[17:32:16] <Bytram> lol!
[17:32:19] * AndyTheAbsurd steals all the towels in Bytram's place
[17:32:32] * Bytram asks that they be returned freshly laundered
[17:33:29] <Bytram> http://www.forbes.com
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[17:34:01] <mattie_p> I mean 4 seems safe enough, just odd that browsers implement that. Seems more like a rendering thing, which shouldn't have to be handled by slash, but by the browser
[17:34:29] <mattie_p> I comprehend that they don't, just pointing out that maybe they should
[17:34:39] <Bytram> no argument on that point, but since we actually did run into some trouble, it seemed best to protect ourselves.
[17:35:08] <mattie_p> got it, thanks
[17:36:33] <Bytram> yeah. too bad we can't count on browsers (and e-mail clients for our users who get e-mail copies of the stories) to handle things correctly.
[17:37:25] <Bytram> http://www.computerworld.com
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[17:55:19] <Leebert> Is it unethical to acknowledge that I've reviewed the ethics training material when I didn't?
[17:55:23] <Leebert> And if so, how would I know?
[17:55:58] <Bytram> ~weather NCommander
[17:55:59] <exec> Weather for Anchorage, AK - currently 25°F / -4°C, clear, wind E at 3 mph, humidity 84% - Thursday clear (29°F-38°F / -2°C-3°C), Friday mostly cloudy (28°F-37°F / -2°C-3°C), Saturday clear (25°F-36°F / -4°C-2°C), Sunday partly cloudy (27°F-36°F / -3°C-2°C) - source: Google
[17:57:19] <Bytram> ~weather boston
[17:57:20] <exec> Weather for Boston, MA - currently 54°F / 12°C, light rain, wind E at 7 mph, humidity 93% - Thursday thunderstorm (48°F-59°F / 9°C-15°C), Friday showers (45°F-57°F / 7°C-14°C), Saturday chance of showers (50°F-63°F / 10°C-17°C), Sunday partly cloudy (45°F-57°F / 7°C-14°C) - source: Google
[18:05:11] <Bytram> TheMightyBuzzard: well, how about that! I just found out what those "superscript" latin letters are for:
[18:05:11] <Bytram> Codepoints U+0363–036F are medieval superscript letter diacritics, letters written directly above other letters appearing in medieval Germanic manuscripts, but in some instances in use until as late as the 19th century. For example, U+0364 is an e written above the preceding letter, to be used for Early Modern High German umlaut notation, such as uͤ for Modern German ü.
[18:13:43] <mattie_p> very interesting there!
[18:15:31] <Bytram> mattie_p: agreed! I studied German for 3 years in high school, and actually went there a couple times on business... and I had no idea!
[18:16:50] <Bytram> ( ͫͫ ͣ ͭ ͭ ͥͥ ͤ )++
[18:16:50] <Bender> karma - ( ͫͫ ͣ ͭ ͭ ͥͥ ͤ ): 1
[18:16:53] <mattie_p> Well, how often would you have come across Early Modern High German in high school?
[18:17:22] <Bytram> apparently, not very often at all!
[18:20:21] <Bytram> http://feeds.arstechnica.com
[18:20:21] <NetCraft> ^ 03A huge tsunami in Hawaii’s past warns of future risk | Ars Technica ( http://arstechnica.com )
[18:20:33] <NCommander> I learned an important lesson
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[18:20:39] <NCommander> If you die in Canada, you die in real life
[18:20:47] <mattie_p> What's that? Never get involved in a land war in Asia?
[18:21:09] <Bytram> NCommander: how'd you come upon that?
[18:21:53] <NCommander> Bytram, turns out you can get decent wifi in Canadian Hell
[18:22:03] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Cheap Solar Power is Now a Perk for 100,000 Employees - http://sylnt.us - being-more-green-for-less-green
[18:22:27] * Bytram is not quite understanding that one :/
[18:22:30] <NCommander> its a bad joke
[18:22:41] <Bytram> oh.
[18:22:58] * Bytram is not really with it this pm. too much rain to stay alert.
[18:24:05] <mattie_p> NCommander, you traveling right now or momentarily still?
[18:24:51] <NCommander> mattie_p, momentary still
[18:25:38] <mattie_p> That's good, you can catch your breath then. I don't know how you do it.
[18:25:54] <NCommander> mattie_p, I can panic when I'm dead :-)
[18:26:08] <mattie_p> Better pack your towel then.
[18:26:11] <Bytram> LOL
[18:26:24] <mattie_p> !grab NCommander
[18:26:25] <Bender> Added quote 255
[18:26:41] <NCommander> That should be the slogan for the site
[18:27:08] <NCommander> anyway
[18:27:11] <NCommander> I'm getting ont he road again
[18:27:14] <NCommander> Need to escape Canada
[18:27:32] <Bytram> NCommander: any idea where you're headed?
[18:29:04] <mattie_p> He's going to roll a d20 splatter chart to move, probably :)
[18:32:53] <Bytram> there's that or maybe flip a coin at each fork in the road?
[18:33:40] <mattie_p> The ever popular dartboard technique still works.
[18:34:43] <Bytram> nod nod
[18:36:08] <Bytram> http://news.sciencemag.org
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[18:47:36] -!- mode/#Soylent [+v mattiep] by juggler
[18:48:15] <Bytram> mattiep: welcome back!
[18:48:21] <mattiep> thanks
[18:48:31] <mattiep> power surge knocked wireless down for a few moments
[18:49:45] <Bytram> better the wireless than you!
[18:50:13] <mattiep> true
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[19:46:07] <crutchy> coffee++
[19:46:07] <Bender> karma - coffee: 988
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[19:54:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> coffee++
[19:54:04] <Bender> karma - coffee: 989
[20:01:16] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - FTDI Driver is Disabling Fake Chips - http://sylnt.us - no-longer-so-widely-used
[20:09:30] <Blackmoore> coffee++
[20:09:30] <Bender> karma - coffee: 990
[20:21:30] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - $7bn US Eradication Effort Delivers Record High Poppy Crop in Afghanistan - http://sylnt.us - your-taxes-at-work
[20:22:27] <paulej72> well I need my poppyseed bagles and muffins.
[20:24:00] <nick> 'authetic afghani poppyseed bagels'
[20:24:07] <nick> authentic
[20:24:22] <nick> i'm sure it would go down well at a hipster deli
[20:26:59] <Blackmoore> mm... it looks liek we've been getting more volume on comments lately- do we have stats to back that up?
[20:29:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> not that i'm aware of but i spose we could rig up something to generate some
[20:30:48] <nick> i'm still waiting on a csv or something for a list of stories with date/title/topic/hits/comments
[20:30:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> my experience it really depends on the story
[20:31:18] <nick> i havn't seen any obvious changes to comments
[20:32:16] * nick will continue to remove and avoid clickbait
[20:32:24] <nick> at the cost of comments and hits no doubt
[20:33:55] <paulej72> it looks to be a bit up over what we had during the summer
[20:34:30] <paulej72> If we can believe the stats code.
[20:40:03] <nick> we had a dip during the summer i think, because vacations and such
[20:40:08] <nick> rather then growth after
[20:42:59] <nick> much like it goes slow on the weekends
[20:45:35] <paulej72> yes that is what I was suggesting. We are still below are high when we first went live.
[20:47:41] <crutchy> coffee++
[20:47:41] <Bender> karma - coffee: 991
[20:47:49] <nick> we're flying under the radar now though, not getting linked through from the old site.
[20:48:02] * Leebert wonders what will happen with C1K
[20:48:10] <crutchy> we're a secret cult now
[20:48:20] <paulej72> TheMightyBuzzard: I have made a comment on your pull request
[20:48:46] <nick> something like that, crutchy
[20:48:50] <Blackmoore> oh! a cult! do i get to wear a funny hat?
[20:50:12] <paulej72> a cock did you say?
[20:51:02] <paulej72> http://img.escapade.co.uk
[20:51:21] <crutchy> damn i didn't follow secret cult rules and typo the l with the key between b and m
[20:51:49] * crutchy pays homage to the clock of forgiveness
[20:53:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> paulej72, okey doke, will give it a look when i get a minute
[20:53:58] <crutchy> hmm i guess the spy channel doesn't pick up pr comments :/
[20:54:10] * crutchy spanks bot
[20:55:23] <paulej72> ok now exec has to change genders, if we are going to continue to spank her.
[20:55:51] <crutchy> exec isn't a very fenimine nick
[20:55:58] <paulej72> (ie she is now a she, but was a he)
[20:56:16] <paulej72> my executive assistant would beg to differ
[20:56:42] <paulej72> (no I don’t have an ea, but I can dream)
[20:56:53] <crutchy> it had a ~bewbs scripty, but i deleted it :o
[20:57:46] <crutchy> last night i started working on a little engine for writing exec scripts in irc
[20:57:57] <paulej72> we could alway change exec’s name to something bewbish like Laura
[20:58:27] <crutchy> ech that would be creepy
[20:58:55] <Blackmoore> Pat
[20:59:17] <Blackmoore> Shannon
[20:59:26] <paulej72> Robin
[20:59:54] <Blackmoore> perfect. ambiguous, and could as easily refrence the boy wonder
[21:00:27] <ar> http://wstaw.org
[21:00:44] <crutchy> Blackmoore, if only i could make it steal from the rich
[21:01:10] <crutchy> ops, sry that was pj :d
[21:01:13] <paulej72> ar: where and when the fuck was that jpg taken
[21:02:01] <ar> paulej72: a few minutes ago, Warsaw, Poland.
[21:02:04] * crutchy places his chips on 23 oct 2014 :p
[21:02:21] <paulej72> How did it get that cold already :(
[21:02:45] <crutchy> is that why i haven't heard much on the news about ukraine lately maybe?
[21:02:52] <crutchy> too fkin cold
[21:02:58] <paulej72> frozen balls
[21:04:04] <ar> paulej72: it's 10th floor; it's a bit warmer near the ground
[21:04:04] <crutchy> even iraq seems to have settled down a bit
[21:04:20] <crutchy> (in the news anyway)
[21:50:36] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Tech Company Will Offer 18 Weeks Of Paid Family Leave to Both Parents - http://sylnt.us - 18-weeks-of-diaper-change
[23:08:39] <mrcoolbp> mattie_p: I see that I was pinged
[23:21:44] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - The Coming Extinction of the Internet Troll - http://sylnt.us - it's-a-slippery-slope
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