#Soylent | Logs for 2014-06-24
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[23:55:31] <crutchy> how's muddy land?
[23:55:21] <crutchy> i been improving the bot lately, so it kinda got put on hold but almost ready to get back into it
[23:54:37] <mattie_p> how goes IRC civ?
[23:54:12] <mattie_p> hi crutchy
[23:54:05] <crutchy> hi mattie_p
[23:54:00] <Bender> karma - coffee: 293
[23:54:00] <mattie_p> coffee++
[23:53:57] <mattie_p> mmmm coffee
[23:53:52] <Bender> karma - workipoos: -2
[23:53:52] <crutchy> workipoos--
[23:53:46] <Bender> karma - coffee: 292
[23:53:46] <crutchy> coffee++
[23:53:42] <crutchy> hi Blackmoore
[23:28:54] <Blackmoore> but i wanted to recreationally pick up and relocate buildings
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[23:01:03] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - FAA Publishes Drone Guidelines - http://sylnt.us - its-a-bird-its-a-plane
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[22:00:18] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Social Media Complaints 'At Least Half' of Calls Passed to Front-Line Police in UK - http://sylnt.us - whole-world-is-a-schoolyard
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[20:41:18] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Google Glass to be Available in the UK - http://sylnt.us - rise-of-the-tea-drinking-cyborgs
[20:23:23] <Bender> karma - minecraft: 1
[20:23:23] <Blackmoore> minecraft++
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[19:28:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> believe some minecraft is just the thing to clear out the cognitive dissonance
[19:26:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> truly. i had absolutely no idea where i was so i just closed everything out and i'll try it again tomorrow.
[19:23:54] <arti> context switching is expensive
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[19:20:18] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - NYC Taxi Records - Yet Another Anonymization Fail - http://sylnt.us - never-underestimate-the-power-of-a-geek
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[19:10:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> two phone calls n a few people bugging me over IM
[18:59:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> eh, i'll work on it tomorrow. people not wanting to leave me in peace to code today.
[18:56:11] * LaminatorX remembers setting up IPX in the dorm lounge to play multiplayer DOOM.
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[18:33:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> NCommander, honestly, there's already dynamic rss ability built in. it's just turned off in vars. i haven't even tested it.
[18:31:42] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, theorically, it shouldn't be *THAT* difficult. You just need to override the templates in index.pl, probably using simple design as a basis
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[18:17:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> NCommander, might look into doing that later since it does offer some advantages. for now i think it's probably quicker to trace down the issue.
[18:14:19] <TheMightyBuzzard> rss would be all dynamic then
[18:14:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> hrm...
[18:13:53] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, honestly, it might be saner to replace the entire thing as a theme, and delete Slash/*/RSS
[18:13:36] <NCommander> TheMightyBuzzard, the RSS code is special
[18:13:26] * NCommander still sees some IPX from time to time
[18:03:41] * TheMightyBuzzard gets back to finding out what in our rss system thinks it should encode unicode to html entities when the former is legal in xml while the latter is not.
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[18:01:31] <mechanicjay> TheMightyBuzzard: Actually, that's not quite fair either. The file servers themselves are OES (Novell services running on top of Suse Enterprise Linux). I think there are only like 1 or 2 Netware servers left and they're virtual.
[18:00:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> yeah, i really do not miss it.
[18:00:36] <Blackmoore> oh good god. even Novell moved off IPX
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[17:58:44] <mechanicjay> :)
[17:58:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> whew. only so 15 years ago then
[17:58:20] <mechanicjay> GOD no.
[17:58:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> still using IPX then?
[17:56:21] <mechanicjay> Still running Novell File Servers for central file storage here. Some really good Novell/Attatchmate products in the mix here, but the File Storage setup hasn't really changed much in 20 years....it's time to change.
[17:54:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> mechanicjay, holy shite... that's so 20 years ago.
[17:51:12] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - European Defense Firms Profiting from Snowden - http://sylnt.us - hardly-surprising
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[17:42:40] <mechanicjay> I love that in 2014, I still see tickets like come into our HelpDesk queue: "Customer cannot log into the novell network "
[17:33:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> ewww, nope. only mostly fixed. for some reason the subject lines are getting mangled.
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[17:29:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> bit hacky in that i hardcoded some utf8 love in instead of doing an if but i can fix that in a bit.
[17:28:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> been working on slashd tasks being unicode happy this morn. they are as far as i can tell now.
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[17:25:23] <Blackmoore> morni TheMightyBuzzard
[17:20:09] <TheMightyBuzzard> late but still...
[17:19:56] <TheMightyBuzzard> mornin
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[16:50:32] <Blackmoore> mornin
[16:50:17] <weeds> Good Morning (from Panama, Fla)
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[16:35:40] <crutchy> gday weeds
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[16:32:46] <crutchy> even the sat stuff that i mentioned was vague memories from years ago when i went to space conferences
[16:32:16] <crutchy> im not a network guru
[16:32:11] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Seizing Data for 2.5 Years Amounts to "General Warrant" Court Says: - http://sylnt.us - another-outbreak-of-commonsense
[16:32:07] <crutchy> to me wifi is just wifi
[16:31:34] <crutchy> no idea
[16:31:29] <stdhell> And other meshnetworks.
[16:31:10] <stdhell> crutchy: Isn't that what something like B.A.T.M.A.N. is for?
[16:29:58] <crutchy> a kind of hackernet
[16:29:25] <crutchy> would be awesome to have a wifi network still to get around some of the limitations imposed by isps
[16:24:10] <Konomi> wish I had some ping values for that
[16:23:31] <Konomi> We were using expensive, high power output 300mW (from memory) 802.11b cards at the time though. Distance attained were close to 20km, and both ends had proper parabolic antennas, about 15-16" in diameter for very focused transmission. By the time we got to these distances though highest connection speed was always 1mbps, with actual throughput at a fraction of that. Latency wasn't exactly amazing either :)
[16:23:27] <Konomi> I was working on a similar(ish) project about ten years ago for the company I was with at the time. We were creating wifi links to remote communities from leased lines in schools, govenment buildings in Northern inner WA.
[16:23:25] <Konomi> bit o spam time
[16:23:20] <stdhell> Don't they use off the shelf hardware?
[16:22:23] <crutchy> sort of stuff akamai uses for its caching
[16:21:42] <stdhell> I would think most of it is "small data", but I don't have any numbers.
[16:21:31] <crutchy> but for the internet
[16:21:19] <crutchy> true
[16:21:10] <stdhell> Backbones are not only "big data" applications.
[16:21:02] <LaminatorX> They are in some cases, Konomi.
[16:20:55] <Konomi> plus solar
[16:20:54] <Konomi> good line of sight and a bit of effort cna go a long way
[16:20:44] <crutchy> trunks and backbones and stuff
[16:20:27] <crutchy> big data applications
[16:20:22] <Konomi> LaminatorX: I don't understand why wireless repeaters aren't used
[16:20:12] <crutchy> yeah
[16:20:07] <stdhell> crutchy: They use it for TV, you know...
[16:19:54] <stdhell> crutchy: Bandwidth is not a problem for a satellite.
[16:19:53] <LaminatorX> Consumer sat access makes sense in remote areas where no one is going to run cables.
[16:18:57] <crutchy> big dish international links was more what i was thinking
[16:18:39] <crutchy> i dunno whether satellite would be good for consumer access cos of bandwidth limitations
[16:17:45] <Konomi> I love the problems due to rain section
[16:17:42] <LaminatorX> Sats are great when raw throughput is what matters. When your use case demands low latency, they're not ideal.
[16:17:11] <Konomi> probably a good summary of the numerous problems with it
[16:17:05] <monopoly> 14└ 9Satellite Internet access - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
[16:17:04] <Konomi> https://en.wikipedia.org
[16:16:41] <stdhell> An anchor might break one of those cables, but other than that I think they're pretty solid.
[16:15:28] <crutchy> maybe its cos submarine cables are prone to breakage and stuf
[16:15:11] <crutchy> for backbone data transmission i thought they were fairly critical
[16:14:56] <stdhell> Konomi: RFC 1149 could be cheaper... :-)
[16:14:39] <crutchy> i'm not sure satellites are as bad as you paint them to be but anyways
[16:14:12] <Konomi> stdhell: well they're going for the cheap factor so I was trying to compromise ;p
[16:13:48] <stdhell> Konomi: Or cables.
[16:13:42] <Konomi> makes me sick to my stomach when I hear the idea of satellite internet being part of the NBN
[16:13:16] <Konomi> anywhere else should use wrieless repeaters
[16:13:10] <Konomi> the only use for satellite internet should be the north or south pole
[16:12:54] <stdhell> crutchy: Well... I talked about 8.8.8.8 and asked for another IP-address... What do you think?
[16:12:53] <crutchy> prolly, but they do have their uses
[16:12:37] <Konomi> point is satellite sucks
[16:11:42] <crutchy> are you pinging an address or a domain?
[16:11:20] <stdhell> Stupid fingers...
[16:11:15] <SedBot> <stdhell> crutchy: I seriously doubt akamai is caching ping data too...
[16:11:15] <stdhell> s/double/doubt/
[16:10:58] <stdhell> crutchy: I seriously double akamai is caching ping data too...
[16:10:57] <crutchy> a lot of data is cached country to country
[16:10:33] <Konomi> they can be as fast as they want picking up my ssl data
[16:10:18] <stdhell> Konomi: Yeah, those NSA switches are pretty fast...
[16:10:08] <Konomi> and the satellite would still have to go through the same shit I do unless the base station is in another country
[16:10:04] <crutchy> could be accessing cached data ffrom akamai
[16:09:45] <Konomi> reguardless of the stupid switches
[16:09:36] <Konomi> so it's pretty obvious which is better
[16:09:30] <Konomi> and I ping anywhere on the planet and the max I will get is 600
[16:09:22] <Konomi> it says 850 average
[16:09:17] <Konomi> crutchy: we'll it's easy I look at htat faq
[16:09:07] <stdhell> Ok, give me another IP then...
[16:09:06] <crutchy> not sure how to compare cos prolly can't tell what the medium is
[16:08:47] <Konomi> do a traceroute
[16:08:41] <Konomi> 8.8.8.8 is localised in every country
[16:08:29] <stdhell> crutchy: I can ping 8.8.8.8 in less than 70ms from Denmark.
[16:08:25] <Konomi> that's like running 10 miles in a strait line with nothing around you and someone doing 6 hurdles and telling them the hurdles matter
[16:07:48] <crutchy> true, but there's less switching infrastructure in the way too
[16:07:19] <Konomi> the distances are just so far into space it doesn't matter
[16:06:13] <Konomi> well unless we run fiber into space we're not going to know
[16:06:06] <crutchy> (along the ground)
[16:05:50] <crutchy> what's the latency for fiber across the same distance?
[16:05:44] <Konomi> Latency for satellite connections is very high due to the distance the satellites are from earth. One-way systems typically get pings in the 400-500ms range with 450ms about average and two-way systems in the 690-1150ms range, with 850ms about average. Feedback received on this FAQ entry:
[16:05:36] <Konomi> I'm being generous on that value too
[16:05:30] <Konomi> no for internet as well
[16:05:21] <crutchy> for a satellite phone i guess
[16:05:16] <Konomi> satellite ping is 800ms plus
[16:05:11] <Konomi> I stated before
[16:05:03] <crutchy> not sure what you mean by huge ping konomi
[16:04:58] <Konomi> I dread to think how many segments you'd need to go through to even match satellites lag
[16:04:44] <crutchy> i was more thinking in australia
[16:04:33] <crutchy> true
[16:04:32] <Konomi> switches do slow things down but satellite has such a huge ping it would make no difference
[16:04:20] <stdhell> Throwing in an extra hop in the middle of a cross-atlantic cable doesn't change the latency much. The length of the cable is a bit more important.
[16:04:18] <crutchy> its not fiber when its in the switch
[16:03:52] <crutchy> switches slow things down a bit
[16:03:20] <crutchy> its sort of related i think
[16:02:56] <stdhell> Ah... I thought you were talking about latency.
[16:02:05] <crutchy> instead of going through a bunch of switches from one side of the earth to the other
[16:01:46] <crutchy> i meant it could go further in a single hop
[16:01:27] <crutchy> nope
[16:01:21] <stdhell> crutchy: I know what a hop is. You meant all the data could be sent as one package.
[16:00:44] <monopoly> 14└ 9Hop (networking) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
[16:00:43] <crutchy> stdhell: http://en.wikipedia.org
[16:00:20] <stdhell> Or packet or datagram or whatever you want to call it.
[16:00:02] <stdhell> crutchy: s/hop/package/
[15:47:32] <crutchy> just talkin backbone stuff
[15:47:16] <Konomi> it stil has to go through the rest of the internet.
[15:47:10] <Konomi> ah what?
[15:46:34] <crutchy> sat can just throw the data all the way across the pacific in a single hop
[15:45:48] <crutchy> more hops going through fiber
[15:45:27] <Konomi> you have to go through all hops.
[15:45:24] <Konomi> once again moot
[15:45:14] <crutchy> i a single hop though
[15:45:02] <Konomi> so yeah
[15:44:59] <Konomi> and satellite is generally 800ms+
[15:44:51] <Konomi> it's how mcuh that matters
[15:44:46] <Konomi> everything is going to have "some" latency so that is a moot statement really
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[15:44:24] <crutchy> moving data from one side of the world to the other is gunna have some latency regardless of which way you go
[15:44:21] <Konomi> don't ever think about skyping or gaming ever again
[15:44:12] <Konomi> the latency makes them awful
[15:43:05] <LaminatorX> Sat's can actually have hella bandwidth, but the latency is awful. They're move enourmous packets, but even at the speed of light it's a long turnaround.
[15:40:04] <crutchy> hi Blackmoore
[15:39:58] <Blackmoore> mornin
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[15:39:29] * crutchy has never used optus for anything, but saw their satellites mentioned at a space conference a few years back
[15:38:05] <crutchy> backbone stuff
[15:37:47] <crutchy> good for international links though
[15:35:58] <Konomi> satellite is absolute shit
[15:35:51] <Konomi> I'd sooner recommend wireless with repeaters
[15:35:35] <Konomi> satellites god
[15:27:32] <SedBot> <crutchy> optus has one advantage over telstra... they have their own satellites
[15:27:32] <crutchy> s/telsta/telstra/
[15:27:17] <crutchy> optus has one advantage over telsta... they have their own satellites
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[15:24:33] <crutchy> though the iiNet case was a win for the aussie legal system
[15:23:55] <crutchy> the internet is legally compromising... as iiNet found out
[15:22:51] <Konomi> companies have just learned the internet is too much freedom so they're going for the kill as much as possible ;p
[15:21:45] <Konomi> pretty much like their coverage area in fact
[15:21:30] <Konomi> I'm just fgoing to pretend they don't exist
[15:21:24] <Konomi> we wonb't talk about vodaphone
[15:21:20] <Konomi> telstra are scrambling to use more spectrum they ended up just as congested as optus did
[15:20:56] <Woods> I will be when I switch, mid July.
[15:20:35] <crutchy> Woods: you hosting at home?
[15:19:15] <crutchy> couldn't pay me to go with telstra for home internet
[15:18:45] <crutchy> (just for mobile)
[15:18:40] <crutchy> i'm with telstra though
[15:18:14] <crutchy> not awesome but doesn't drop out at least
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[15:17:59] <crutchy> works pretty good out in the sticks
[15:17:09] <Woods> Weird
[15:17:05] <crutchy> i usually disablei it
[15:17:01] <Konomi> this is at 100% signal btw...
[15:16:42] <crutchy> i rarely use 3g/4g
[15:16:41] <Konomi> it's like using sorta 500kbps/1mbps sometimes where it works when it doesn't dorp out when your ping isn't 4 seconds
[15:16:22] <Konomi> every wireless provider running on 3g/4g I have tried is congested and slow as fuck
[15:16:10] <crutchy> ah you talking mobile data
[15:16:10] <Konomi> you can get beter deals but I've fond they're all a joke
[15:16:08] <Woods> Crutchy: I will be hosting a Ventrilo server, and probably a Minecraft server, and all the multiplayer games my friends and I play.
[15:16:00] <Konomi> virgin prepaid
[15:15:54] <crutchy> konomi, who's that with?
[15:15:46] <Woods> Pretty friggin horrible
[15:15:33] <crutchy> watch a crapload of pr0n?
[15:15:33] <Konomi> how does 19 dollars for 900mb sound to you?
[15:15:26] <crutchy> what do you do with google fiber?
[15:15:24] <Konomi> haha haha
[15:15:21] <Konomi> HAHAH
[15:15:15] <Woods> Konomi: What about phone data rates?
[15:14:20] <Woods> And now I feel bad because I am about to get Google Fiber. If I could share some internets with you guys, I would.
[15:14:16] <Konomi> what are caps?
[15:14:14] <Konomi> and they were like
[15:14:11] <Konomi> it's funny cause they used up the caps of the people I was staying with at the time
[15:14:03] <crutchy> depends what you wanna do i guess
[15:14:00] <Konomi> I've had a few friends visit from the us too
[15:13:39] <crutchy> i'm pretty happy with my net, but maybe its just ignorant bliss
[15:12:57] <Konomi> nope
[15:12:55] <Woods> It sounds pretty horrible, from an internet standpoint.
[15:12:51] <stdhell> Konomi: Ok, I thought it was just international stuff that was counted. :-(
[15:12:31] <Konomi> don't ever come here
[15:12:30] <crutchy> but i can keep downloading
[15:12:28] <Konomi> australia is just shit
[15:12:21] <crutchy> once i go over 50gb i'm shaped
[15:12:20] <Konomi> the off peak quota being 2am to 8am
[15:12:15] <Konomi> I also have an on and off peak quota
[15:12:05] <Konomi> that's metred
[15:11:57] <Konomi> stdhell: nope
[15:11:51] <stdhell> Konomi: What about stuff from other .au ISPs?
[15:11:41] <crutchy> i feel free to drop my guts at convenient times
[15:11:14] <Konomi> but ueah it's just one of the examples
[15:11:06] <Konomi> well fortnatly the linux mirror I use is
[15:10:56] <Woods> Hm. I wonder what kind of things are "free"
[15:10:41] <Konomi> it's a huge pathetic joke here really
[15:10:35] <Konomi> basically you can dowload our shit without it counting to your quota stuff
[15:10:22] <Konomi> every isp I know has "uncapped" content
[15:10:10] <Konomi> we lost ours ages ago
[15:10:06] <Konomi> I mean america is having this debate over net neutrality
[15:10:01] <crutchy> holy carp my interwebz is only 12mbps
[15:09:55] <Konomi> australia is just a joke for internet usage
[15:09:47] <stdhell> Konomi: The caps are because internation stuff is expensive as hell, right? Maybe Netflix is planning on local servers?
[15:09:46] <crutchy> 100mbps!?
[15:09:41] <Woods> Wow, yeah that sucks.
[15:09:38] <Konomi> if I maxed it
[15:09:33] <Konomi> I could drain my cap in about 5 hours of donwloading for an enire month
[15:09:23] <Konomi> my speed is 100mbps
[15:09:20] <Konomi> usage
[15:09:14] <Woods> Konomi: Caps as in overall bandwidth usage? Or speed?
[15:08:34] <Konomi> joke*
[15:08:32] <Konomi> what a koke
[15:08:30] <Konomi> I'm like please no one can watch tv with the caps almost every isp has
[15:08:28] <crutchy> do not tell my wife that
[15:08:15] <Konomi> peple keep saying netflix is coming to au
[15:08:10] <Konomi> yeah
[15:08:06] <Konomi> same for web pages etc
[15:08:03] <crutchy> missus has been watching foxtel online
[15:08:00] <Konomi> if I tried that capped it'd stop loading in the first 10 seconds
[15:07:53] <Konomi> I find my net just doesn't work at all
[15:07:30] <crutchy> my net still works but very slow loading that youtube
[15:07:29] <Konomi> cause I know a lot of people who could get by on that
[15:07:18] <Konomi> they're obviously fucking with it
[15:07:12] <Konomi> where as on capped 256kbps it just stops working for every little thing
[15:06:59] <Konomi> cause when I had dial up at 5.6kb shit just took longer to load
[15:06:46] <Konomi> I'd still like to know what they do to it to royally screw it
[15:06:41] <crutchy> its slow enough already without freeloaders
[15:06:28] <crutchy> lol
[15:06:18] <Konomi> better set up some open wifi crutchy and share it with others
[15:06:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> growl snarl spit.
[15:05:56] -!- randmcnatt [randmcnatt!~rand@jsx-671.76-725-78.nts-online.net] has joined #Soylent
[15:05:51] <crutchy> damn end of month internet shaping
[15:04:58] <Konomi> nasty
[15:03:07] <monopoly> 14└ 9Madagascar 3 Mort throws up cake (HD) - YouTube
[15:03:06] <crutchy> http://www.youtube.com
[15:02:15] <Woods> I actually just picked up an addon to disable those for me.
[15:01:44] <stdhell> ./configure --disable-crab-walk --disable-vomit
[15:01:15] <Woods> Stdhell: I know right? That new version sure has some wacky features.
[15:00:57] <stdhell> Woods: Nothing unusual about that...
[15:00:32] <crutchy> i wouldn't leave them alone together... they might 'exorcise' each other
[15:00:20] <Woods> Firefox is now crab-walking down the stairs backwards, while vomiting pea soup.
[14:59:53] <Woods> I must find an old priest and a young priest to exorcise my computer.
[14:59:29] <Azrael> that simpsons css is beautiful!!
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[14:59:08] <crutchy> yeah that's some creepy shit eh
[14:58:58] <Woods> OH GOD THEY BLINKED AT ME
[14:58:31] <crutchy> i 'drew' a flowchart with rotated divs once
[14:58:01] <stdhell> I wouldn't call it "pure CSS". There's a lot of <div>'s for each character.
[14:57:50] * crutchy has never seen that radiusy stuff in css2.1
[14:57:43] <SirFinkus> some of them are a little fucked up
[14:57:34] <crutchy> assuming its css3?
[14:56:23] <crutchy> one of those "someone has too much time on their hands" projects
[14:56:01] <crutchy> very clever though
[14:55:34] <crutchy> lol sounds like something only a government agency would pay for :-)
[14:55:10] <ar> crutchy: the company i used to work for did it for some government agency
[14:54:50] <crutchy> who does that?
[14:54:40] <crutchy> ar, that is fucking disturbing :-P
[14:53:17] <monopoly> 14└ 9The Simpsons in CSS
[14:53:17] <ar> http://pattle.github.io
[14:50:56] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Court: NYC Can Ban Unvaccinated students - http://sylnt.us - Science-1-Loons-0
[14:49:42] <monopoly> 14└ 9Smutny Autobus - YouTube
[14:49:41] <ar> https://www.youtube.com - whaaaa (a video promoting not tolerating unsafe buses carrying kids, for example to school…)
[14:46:26] <Woods> Yo
[14:46:07] <crutchy> gday Woods
[14:44:56] -!- mode/#Soylent [+v Woods] by juggler
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[14:42:52] <crutchy> adblock edge is awesome TheMightyBuzzard
[14:42:36] <crutchy> sometimes i browse in incognito mode (or whatever its called) but not often
[14:42:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> ya, it's enabled for SN. i'd disable it if it got used to serve up annoying ads though.
[14:41:38] <stdhell> Would you enable or disable it for something like SoylentNews?
[14:41:23] <crutchy> i generally design for my stuff to work without js, but adds some convenience features if enabled
[14:41:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> assuming they're not being jackasses with it.
[14:41:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> default to disabling it but if a site needs it, i whitelist them.
[14:40:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> depends on the site
[14:40:42] <crutchy> ooh 'paranoid-mode'
[14:40:22] <stdhell> Quick poll: How many disables "first-party" javascript?
[14:39:45] <crutchy> if he disables javascript after a page load and then doesn't refresh it, when he asks tech support they will suitably roll their eyes
[14:38:45] <stdhell> Another problem: What if Javascript is enabled, but the user then disables it?
[14:38:42] <crutchy> ah well
[14:38:39] <crutchy> lol looks like the hide functions are both the same anyway
[14:37:53] <crutchy> (i have hide versions of both too)
[14:37:43] <SedBot> <crutchy> just looking at my script, i also have a showClassInline function
[14:37:43] <crutchy> s/hide/show/
[14:37:10] <crutchy> just looking at my script, i also have a hideClassInline function
[14:37:02] <stdhell> (Cue my boss: "Oh, I know! Let it pop up a message saying 'You need to enable Javascript!'")
[14:36:04] <stdhell> ... or I could simply have some buttons on my page that does nothing if javascript is disabled.
[14:35:51] <crutchy> true. never had to worry about that much in my stuff but for general thing sure
[14:34:44] <crutchy> ah
[14:34:31] <stdhell> I.e. let it switch back to the default "display" property for that element.
[14:34:24] <crutchy> i make a 'script_only' class in my css file
[14:33:58] <stdhell> It would probably be better to remove the "display" property instead in case you got some inline stuff too.
[14:32:47] <crutchy> ^what i use
[14:32:37] <crutchy> }
[14:32:35] <crutchy> }
[14:32:33] <crutchy> }
[14:32:32] <crutchy> elements[i].style.display='block';
[14:32:32] <crutchy> if (elements[i].className==objClass) {
[14:32:32] <crutchy> for (var i=0; i<elements.length; i++) {
[14:32:32] <crutchy> var elements = (ie) ? document.all : document.getElementsByTagName('*');
[14:32:32] <crutchy> function showClass(objClass) {
[14:32:20] * TheMightyBuzzard scratches his head
[14:29:39] <stdhell> True.
[14:29:39] <crutchy> use a 'script-only' id class
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[14:29:14] <crutchy> one advantage of the hacky method is that it *requires* js to work and doesn't depend on browser implementation of a tag
[14:29:09] <stdhell> It's also a bit messy, if you got more than one block that needs to be hidden/shown.
[14:27:17] <stdhell> Exactly. It's a bit hacky...
[14:27:01] <crutchy> i guess not as easy as what you're after though
[14:26:26] <crutchy> bit hacky but works
[14:26:09] <crutchy> i put script-only stuff in a div with an id and style="display: none;" and set display to block using js
[14:23:35] <stdhell> Sometimes it would be nice, if there was an HTML tag that meant the opposite of <noscript>...
[14:09:54] * crutchy was only half hour late
[14:09:30] <Konomi> ;p
[14:09:22] <crutchy> wb konomi
[13:39:54] -!- KonomiNetbook [KonomiNetbook!~Konomi@Soylent/Users/189/Konomi] has joined #Soylent
[13:21:49] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - City Cracks Down On 9-Year-Old For Opening Free Library In His Front Yard - http://sylnt.us - tax-and-zoning-regulations-for-altruism
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[12:42:44] * crutchy offers TheMightyBuzzard a sharpening stone for his hacking blade
[12:38:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> guess it's back to hacking away at slash today
[12:18:17] <Bender> karma - coffee: 291
[12:18:17] <crutchy> coffee++
[12:17:45] <Bender> karma - coffee: 290
[12:17:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> coffee++
[11:55:32] <JamesNZ> Yeah, it is.
[11:55:17] <crutchy> looks like an rts
[11:54:59] <crutchy> cool
[11:53:59] <JamesNZ> It's in Python + PyQt.
[11:53:28] <JamesNZ> Warzone 2100, a game I play :)
[11:53:13] * crutchy googles warzone
[11:53:01] <JamesNZ> Ah.
[11:52:55] <crutchy> php
[11:52:53] <JamesNZ> I'm putting the finishing touches on a mod loader for Warzone.
[11:52:45] <JamesNZ> Cool, what language is it in?
[11:52:44] <crutchy> u?
[11:52:16] <crutchy> my stoopid bot
[11:52:02] <JamesNZ> :P
[11:51:55] <crutchy> weird
[11:51:48] <crutchy> lmao
[11:51:45] <crutchy> whatcha workin on?
[11:51:44] <JamesNZ> Whatcha working on?
[11:51:29] <crutchy> atm i'm just coding but music is a good idea
[11:50:58] <crutchy> ooh
[11:50:41] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - US Offering Cash For Pro-TAFTA/TTIP Propaganda - http://sylnt.us - start-your-career-in-politics-today
[11:50:33] <JamesNZ> Listening to Mozart while coding, so, pretty good :)
[11:49:51] <crutchy> can't complain. you?
[11:49:30] <JamesNZ> Greetings crutchy \o How's it going?
[11:48:22] <crutchy> g'day JamesNZ
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[11:31:00] <arti> events occur in real time
[11:30:32] <crutchy> its 7.30pm here
[11:29:23] <arti> guess its all relative
[11:29:10] <arti> late
[11:28:53] <crutchy> u up early
[11:28:16] <Bender> karma - arti: 52
[11:28:16] <crutchy> arti++
[11:28:06] <Bender> karma - coffee: 289
[11:28:06] <arti> coffee++
[11:28:01] <Bender> karma - coffee: 288
[11:28:01] <crutchy> coffee++
[10:43:55] <Bender> karma - coffee: 287
[10:43:55] <crutchy> coffee++
[10:21:34] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - The Vacuum Transistor: A Device Made of Almost Nothing - http://sylnt.us - everything-is-something
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[09:35:27] <crutchy> ~q
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[09:12:31] <exec> [Google] 3:12am Tuesday (EDT) - Time in Washington, DC, USA
[09:12:26] <crutchy> ~time dc
[08:52:39] <Bender> karma - coffee: 286
[08:52:39] <crutchy> coffee++
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[08:50:25] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Would You Spend $10,000 for a Driverless Car in 2015? - http://sylnt.us - rs6-avant-or-gtfo
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[07:11:11] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - China Leads in Graphene Patent Applications - http://sylnt.us - two-dimensional-diamond
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[06:04:25] <swiss> i believe it
[06:02:28] <chromas> He's off to dream about cookies and board games
[06:00:56] -!- SpallsHurgenson has quit [Quit: rapidly unconscious]
[06:00:49] <SpallsHurgenson> anyway, sleepy time
[06:00:44] <swiss> is that the box you mean
[06:00:34] <SpallsHurgenson> why are you asking me? :)
[06:00:06] <swiss> Break the Safe?
[05:59:52] <SpallsHurgenson> I wanna know what is in the box on the left
[05:58:58] <chromas> That penguin knows what time it is
[05:56:58] <swiss> chromas: semi nsfw http://i.imgur.com
[05:45:35] <chromas> ooh, a rack of servers, no doubt
[05:35:29] <swiss> it's what's on top of the dresser that's interesting
[05:35:02] <swiss> clothes?
[05:34:49] <chromas> s
[05:34:48] <chromas> show us what's in those drawer
[05:34:35] <chromas> :D
[05:34:35] <chromas> oh yeah, and cookies
[05:34:29] <swiss> <3 gnome3
[05:34:26] <swiss> yeah
[05:33:58] <chromas> Gnome?
[05:33:01] <swiss> chromas: http://i.imgur.com
[05:31:15] <chromas> maybe he meant cookies acting as a girlfriend; ie doughnuts
[05:30:51] <SpallsHurgenson> as the channel's resident perv, I am interested in hearing more about your girlfriend's "cookies"
[05:28:59] <chromas> chocolate-dipped macaroons?
[05:27:53] <swiss> i forgot i had girlfriend cookies in my room
[05:27:45] <swiss> oh man
[05:25:13] <chromas> then it's onyl about two minutes worth of effort
[05:24:48] <chromas> It helps if you have a stand mixer
[05:24:35] <swiss> yep!
[05:24:19] <chromas> :D
[05:24:18] <chromas> That is lazy
[05:24:01] <swiss> too much work
[05:22:54] <chromas> To the kitchen, my good sir!
[05:22:22] <swiss> i want that too
[05:22:20] <swiss> :(
[05:22:02] <chromas> Nah, you can have it; I've got biscotti
[05:21:26] <swiss> :(
[05:21:11] <chromas> Each of you shall receive...death. I will eat the pie
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[05:11:12] <swiss> so do i
[05:01:15] <SpallsHurgenson> but I like pie!
[05:00:49] <swiss> you give me the pie, cause i'm starving, but lazy
[05:00:41] <swiss> no
[05:00:02] <SpallsHurgenson> there is pie in the other room. It is the last piece of pie. I should not eat pie. Others may want the pie. Do I take the pie?
[04:51:20] <SpallsHurgenson> oh god no!
[04:51:14] <chromas> You could give me a hand
[04:50:53] <SpallsHurgenson> should I be averting my eyes?
[04:50:32] <chromas> You know, for better understanding
[04:50:13] <chromas> It just means I need to, uh...examine my...self..some more
[04:49:33] <SpallsHurgenson> (wow, that was even more nonsensical than the original)
[04:49:06] <SpallsHurgenson> Do not try and understand slashcode. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth. There is no code. Then you'll see, that it is not the code that is understandable, it is only yourself.
[04:47:15] <SedBot> <chromas> But what happens to your mind when you try to understand the code?
[04:47:14] <chromas> s/ds/nd/
[04:47:08] <chromas> But what happens to your mids when you try to understand the code?
[04:46:34] <SpallsHurgenson> from what I understand and hear about slashcode, the problem is not a DEFICIT of code
[04:45:36] <chromas> Sounds like you're hacking on slash again
[04:43:24] <SpallsHurgenson> it's gone black, like there's nothing there!
[04:41:36] <chromas> Is its monitor okay?
[04:37:32] <SpallsHurgenson> whoa... you just blew my mind!
[04:37:23] <chromas> Even the monitors
[04:37:12] <SpallsHurgenson> microwaves, toilets, cars, fans, dogs, cheeseburgers... everything!
[04:34:04] * SpallsHurgenson starts slapping extra monitors on everything
[04:33:56] <SpallsHurgenson> I don't
[04:33:45] <chromas> If you call that living
[04:32:58] <chromas> In caves
[04:26:51] <SpallsHurgenson> how did people used to live with only one monitor?
[04:12:29] <SpallsHurgenson> Erste der Googlenews, dann die Welt!
[04:00:49] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - German Publishers Want an 11 Percent Cut of Online News Providers - http://sylnt.us - germany-antics
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[02:40:49] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Time Travel Simulated with Light - http://sylnt.us - not-sure-if-wave-or-particle
[02:39:28] <SpallsHurgenson> I feel phlegmish
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[02:04:32] <Blackmoore> g'night all
[01:51:38] <Blackmoore> but no, I'll be at Sterling..
[01:51:14] <Blackmoore> I'm going to wish I was working at a waterpark this summer
[01:49:34] <Blackmoore> it has been pretty damn hot, and the solstace was enough to fry me saturday.
[01:47:22] * SpallsHurgenson checks the neutrino count... is a nova impending?
[01:47:00] <SpallsHurgenson> is it just me, or does the sun seem BRIGHTER this summer than usual?
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[01:36:26] <Blackmoore> somebody send me a chair with a back massage. Please..
[01:32:01] <Bender> karma - cubicles: -3
[01:32:01] <Blackmoore> cubicles--
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[01:21:50] <Bender> [SoylentNews] - Silicon Valley Giants Just Handed Out $15 M in Prizes to Mathematicians - http://sylnt.us - I-bet-they-had-no-problems-counting-that || Confirmed: Yes, it is the Higgs - http://sylnt.us - the-force-is-strong-with-this-one
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[00:45:24] <arti> pretty cool, look at that cache
[00:45:10] <monopoly> 14└ 9IBM z196 (microprocessor) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
[00:45:10] <arti> https://en.wikipedia.org(microprocessor)
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[00:29:02] <crutchy> time for work. cyas
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[00:11:45] <crutchy> better go brush daughties hair for skool
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[00:08:58] <exec> 00,04h00,07i00,08 00,09c00,12r00,02u00,06t00,04c00,07h00,08y00,09!
[00:08:57] <chromas> ~rainbow hi crutchy!
[00:08:29] <crutchy> hi chromas :-)
[00:05:02] <SedBot> <chromas> <crutchy> chocolatehotdog++
[00:05:02] <chromas> crutchy: s/.*/chocolatehotdog++/
[00:04:17] <SedBot> <crutchy> SedBut
[00:04:17] <crutchy> s/o/u/
[00:03:15] * SedBot is a 53-line awk script, https://github.com
[00:03:15] <crutchy> SedBot
[00:02:56] <crutchy> Bender: s/$15 M in Prizes/Pants/
[00:02:00] <Bender> karma - coffee: 285
[00:02:00] <crutchy> coffee++