#Soylent | Logs for 2014-05-02

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[23:59:53] <paulej72> right now the JS script load any minimized comments from the web site on the fly. I am toying with pushing the whole page as and using CSS and JS to minimize the comments based on the threshhold. this would rquire more work, and may not be very nice if JS is not working.
[23:59:27] <michealpwalls> If it's too hard, don't worry 'bout it. If it's really easy, you should add little 'collapse comment', 'collapse thread' etc.
[23:58:53] <michealpwalls> paulej72: How hard would it be to add tooltips for those buttons (The collapse/expand and collapse all/expand all) so when you hover you get a description?
[23:58:18] mrcoolbp is now known as mrcoolbp|afk
[23:57:12] <michealpwalls> So if JS is not working as it should, or disabled, I can still click the friggin' comment's anchor to get to it. That's how slashdot should have added things :)
[23:56:38] <michealpwalls> What I like the most... Is you keep the actual anchor link...
[23:56:19] <paulej72> thanks
[23:55:59] <michealpwalls> Which is really nice! (hifive)
[23:55:58] <paulej72> I have made the improved threaded only use on threshhold and it only set what is minimized
[23:55:53] <michealpwalls> But that's all-or-nothing right? Either I expand all by lowering the threshhold or I manually open what I'm interested in. With this improved view, I can easily expand with that JS "button"
[23:54:47] <paulej72> We have had the JS code that does the collapse and expand working for a while, but it did not work when comments were below your threshold.
[23:54:22] <michealpwalls> Oh man this is awesome!! No more opening sub-commemnts in a new tab or constantly clicking back!
[23:54:20] <NCommander> paulej72, I never got very far with it; my attempts at removing it equally failed since part of it is stored in the bloody database :-P
[23:53:41] <paulej72> On production NCommander added Improved Threaded right at the begining of the site, but never rewrote the code to make it work better. It acted like threaded.
[23:53:17] <michealpwalls> I just dove into convo and tried to catch up LOL
[23:53:01] <michealpwalls> haha yea, sorry
[23:52:33] <paulej72> I just looked at my back scrool and say that you just missed my announcment that I just updated the improved threaded to work how I wanted it too.
[23:52:16] <michealpwalls> I don't experiment with options often :/
[23:52:08] <michealpwalls> LMAO
[23:52:07] <michealpwalls> Yea, I didn't notice there was new options under that dropdown menu. In fact I always just assumed the default was the only real veiw :O
[23:51:44] <michealpwalls> The buttons look really nice. Dunno what else to call 'em, I call everything a button LMAO
[23:51:43] <Blackmoore> I think finding that option might be the only holdup I see.
[23:51:26] <michealpwalls> I like it!
[23:51:25] <michealpwalls> Whoa that looks nice (hifive)
[23:51:08] <michealpwalls> found it LOL
[23:51:06] <michealpwalls> nvm
[23:51:00] <michealpwalls> What activates it?
[23:50:38] <paulej72> Improved Threadeing has no pagination. It is designed to give you a nice wall of comments :)
[23:49:45] <michealpwalls> Ohh, shame. I like that
[23:49:28] <michealpwalls> or maybe I just never seen that b4 LOL
[23:49:20] <paulej72> michealpwalls: the related stories is on the main site too, vut requires the editor to add them
[23:49:12] <michealpwalls> Also, the comment paging is great
[23:48:22] <paulej72> use http instead. Forgot I was doing testing on the https side when I copied that link
[23:48:17] <michealpwalls> Hey! love the "Related Stories" feature there
[23:47:48] <paulej72> noone has CAcert as a root ca
[23:47:33] <michealpwalls> Ohh, k
[23:47:20] <paulej72> michealpwalls: or dev server has only a shitty CA cert on it
[23:47:13] <michealpwalls> "The issuer of this certificate could not be found"
[23:45:52] <michealpwalls> sry if dumb quest. but I am getting invalid certificate error from that link. Opera v20 (Blink)
[23:45:32] <paulej72> helllo michealpwalls
[23:45:17] <michealpwalls> Hety paulej72
[23:45:03] <paulej72> why does everyone stop talking when I eneter the room :(
[23:42:33] <paulej72> I just fixed an issue with the thresholds and now it should work much better
[23:41:39] <paulej72> here is a good testing story that has lots of comments https://dev.soylentnews.org
[23:37:52] <Blackmoore> yes! this is nice
[23:37:14] <Blackmoore> ah found the option
[23:35:51] <michealpwalls> Crazytalk :/
[23:35:37] <michealpwalls> There seems to be 3 different ways in which slashcode can create a cookie.
[23:34:41] <michealpwalls> Hrmm
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[23:32:32] <chromas> It only works in Improved Threaded view
[23:32:03] <Blackmoore> or i could not understand how it is supposed to be working
[23:31:40] <Blackmoore> Doesnt look like it is working to me
[23:31:03] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Superheavy Element 117 Confirmed - http://sylnt.us - superheavy-metal
[23:29:19] <michealpwalls> LOL 2 seconds of lag? Pfft!
[23:28:17] -!- michealpwalls [michealpwalls!~michealpw@cxnwzhcb-dv1-9-367.hamilton.auracom.net] has joined #Soylent
[23:23:29] <paulej72> If you have any comments, please post them on #dev. thanks
[23:22:11] <TK_> I'm perusing
[23:21:23] -!- mode/#Soylent [+v FunPika] by juggler
[23:21:23] -!- FunPika [FunPika!~FunPika@Soylent/Staff/Wiki/FunPika] has joined #Soylent
[23:19:11] <paulej72> I have it working with the Improved Threaded comment mode. Please feel free to try to break it. I am trying to see what I broke in getting this working.
[23:17:51] <paulej72> anyone want to test collapsable comments on dev.soylentnews.org?
[23:16:58] <Blackmoore> harkens back to the 8-bit days when we did a lot of hardware hacking
[23:15:55] <Blackmoore> i was thinking more like using a generic board like a Pi. and then interfaceing that to the drivehardware
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[22:49:51] <TK_> I doubt most people could whip up a hard drive platter at their local machine shot, though.
[22:49:18] <TK_> I'm sure the world could use more open source hardware
[22:39:59] <Blackmoore> i almost wish i had the chops to write a "generic controler" coupled with a PCB. make it fully adjustable to spin at different speeds, diffent read techniques
[22:36:32] <Blackmoore> but it is really doubtful that the new controller would be happy if either of those is different
[22:35:55] <Blackmoore> well, if the drive speed is the same, and the read mechanism is the same you could be ok..
[22:30:19] <TK_> It could be a reason to buy drives in pairs
[22:29:35] <TK_> That was a big part of why I didn't actually buy it
[22:26:57] <Landon> I was under the impression that the firmware had enough magic that you're not going to read much without having drives from the same run
[22:26:55] <TK_> (From China, of course)
[22:26:45] <TK_> plus shipping
[22:26:08] <TK_> When I looked into it about five years ago, the PCBs were about half the price of a new drive
[22:25:19] <Landon> on the basis that the drives "looked similar"
[22:25:10] <SedBot> <Lindin> my boss wanted me to swap pcbs on hard drives to fix them
[22:25:09] <Landon> s/motherboards/pcbs/
[22:25:06] <TK_> wert?
[22:24:57] <Landon> my boss wanted me to swap motherboards on hard drives to fix them
[22:24:48] <Landon> at my college IT job....
[22:24:21] <Blackmoore> I like it!
[22:24:15] <TK_> make a project out of it
[22:24:10] <TK_> Get a razor blade, a bottle of goo gone, and a tube of super glue
[22:24:00] <Blackmoore> the old one may be 5 years or more old tho
[22:22:57] <Blackmoore> well the drives are both 500Gb.
[22:21:43] <TK_> it's cool, those were the 8 megs I was looking for
[22:21:26] <Landon> what a disastrous failure mode
[22:21:20] <Landon> 80 gigs... suddenly you can only RW 8 megs
[22:21:19] <TK_> hah
[22:21:09] <Landon> well that's a valid complaint for those intel ssds :)
[22:21:04] <Landon> haha
[22:21:02] <TK_> Boy did we screw up
[22:20:57] <TK_> Of course this 2TB drive is defective, it's only got capacity for 2gb and is 15 years old
[22:20:26] <TK_> Depends on how good you are at swapping labels
[22:19:58] <Blackmoore> ^^ not serious.
[22:18:50] <Blackmoore> you think i can swap the old and failing drive (wrong interface even) and get an RMA?
[22:17:25] <Blackmoore> i've never had a DOA (I had better try the one o bought last week)
[22:13:39] <TK_> Do they have the same error code program as seagate for warranty claims?
[22:12:38] <sirecote> woops TK_ already mentioned that
[22:12:12] <sirecote> I like WD warranty/rma since they have advanced replacement
[22:12:03] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Food That Makes You Feel Full, Explained - http://sylnt.us - I-usually-just-eat-more
[22:11:49] <TK_> So far so good
[22:11:44] <TK_> I'm looking at a 2TB green on newegg
[22:11:17] <Blackmoore> I get blue. I see that Red has a 3 year warentee
[22:10:02] <chromas> or is it dark humor? :)
[22:09:54] <chromas> </badjoke>
[22:08:51] <TK_> wow, you're not even wrong
[22:08:26] <chromas> Blacks get more time
[22:08:22] <chromas> Racists
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[22:07:36] <Landon> up to 5 years (wow) for the blacks
[22:07:31] <Landon> for the greens and blues
[22:06:52] <Landon> newegg says 2 year limited warranty
[22:06:30] <TK_> tb
[22:06:28] <TK_> 1.5 was worth it
[22:06:23] <TK_> lol, yeah
[22:06:21] <Landon> 320gb is nothin
[22:06:19] <Landon> oh well, not worth it at this point :)
[22:06:14] <TK_> That's what I've done
[22:06:13] <Landon> ah
[22:06:05] <TK_> and you can send it back in that box
[22:05:51] <TK_> You can pay $20 and they'll ship your new one immediately
[22:05:28] <Landon> I had a couple of seagates that I needed to replace, but I didn't want to bother if I was going to get dinged for not sending it back in the original materials
[22:05:25] <TK_> What do you count as mid grade?
[22:05:03] <Landon> D:
[22:04:59] <TK_> I've replaced my seagate twice under warranty (both my fault)
[22:04:43] <Landon> I always go with WD Green
[22:04:33] <TK_> How's the warranty with WD?
[22:03:55] <Blackmoore> both seem to have the same number of DOA
[22:03:35] <Blackmoore> but the reviews really dont tell me if there is a difference in quality between segate and WD
[22:03:00] <Blackmoore> but mid grade or better. i dont really trust the lowest tier quality stuff
[22:02:25] <Blackmoore> I always get WD.
[22:00:58] <michealpwalls> time to catch the bus, bbl\
[22:00:53] <TK_> Abrupt topic change: Western Digital vs. Seagate for >1TB drives?
[21:59:35] <TK_> Are those the ones with raison blades in them?
[21:59:18] <michealpwalls> I love Slash cookies!
[21:59:16] <michealpwalls> Of course!
[21:59:09] <TK_> Does that mean you're bringing them to the potluck?
[21:59:08] <michealpwalls> LOL that's so hard to follow
[21:59:01] <michealpwalls> https://github.com
[21:58:15] <michealpwalls> Well, I *think* I found the cookie logic in slashcode
[21:56:11] <TK_> ectoplasm*
[21:55:38] <TK_> extoplasm is matter, right?
[21:55:29] <Blackmoore> matter-free-sentience?
[21:54:31] <TK_> "differently-materialized persons"
[21:54:14] <michealpwalls> I'm a big zombie fan :)
[21:53:58] <Blackmoore> or at least chronologicall-challenged
[21:53:33] <Blackmoore> i prefer the term undead.
[21:53:07] <TK_> I think Mike is talking to a ghost
[21:50:21] <Blackmoore> (damn.where did that wall come from)
[21:44:22] <michealpwalls> Touche
[21:44:21] <michealpwalls> Hrmm!
[21:42:04] <mrcoolbp> you could always raise a feature request on github
[21:41:51] <mrcoolbp> I think they are already working on what is displayed during/after a comment, not sure
[21:39:06] <michealpwalls> I should PM NCommander with a suggestion :D
[21:38:53] <michealpwalls> Ah I see. If you reply to a comment, SN shows the comment. However if you reply to an article (Which I was doing on Pipe I think, haha but I can't remember) it doesnt' give you any info at all
[21:38:17] <michealpwalls> *thinks*
[21:38:15] <michealpwalls> Crap SN does that too
[21:37:44] <michealpwalls> LMAO they need a link here to remind me wtf thread I'm in :/
[21:37:32] <michealpwalls> Still got it open, but now I forgot what the comment I'm replying to was! :O
[21:37:18] <michealpwalls> Oh man.. I was posting a message on pipedot awhile back
[21:31:44] <michealpwalls> No sense counting comments on Slashdot 'cause the quality of them is garbage mostly :D
[21:31:10] <michealpwalls> VICTORY! :)
[21:31:04] <michealpwalls> 3 comments in 2 hours on Pipedot, 9 comments in 1 hour on SN.
[21:29:55] <michealpwalls> LMAO Teckla. Amen!
[21:29:50] <michealpwalls> Poor pipedot!
[21:29:47] <michealpwalls> That Anonymous-Ham-Radio story on pipedot for awhile.. Like 1-2 comments. It hits SN and really quickkly climbs to 9 comments :X
[21:29:36] <Teckla> As a long-time software developer, I'm amazed *anything* software-related works
[21:29:22] * Teckla chuckles
[21:29:20] <michealpwalls> haha, you guys...
[21:28:20] <michealpwalls> :)
[21:28:19] <michealpwalls> I'm surprised more things don't spontaneously fail without rational explaination on the internets.
[21:28:00] <michealpwalls> I blame the Internet of Things.
[21:27:59] <Blackmoore> http://www.braedin.com
[21:27:28] <Teckla> Oh, I'm fairly sure in this case it was PEBKAC, hehe
[21:27:18] <Teckla> Ah, it worked that time
[21:26:23] <chromas> Hopefully it's not another bug :)
[21:25:42] <Teckla> chromas: Ah, thank you, I don't see it, I'll try again :)
[21:22:53] <chromas> Click Submit and it should appear in your list
[21:22:38] <Teckla> Not sure if I should re-submit or wait...
[21:21:56] * Teckla probably screwed up
[21:21:51] <Teckla> Hmmm, I thought I submitted a story but I think it went in the bit bucket, oops
[21:21:47] <michealpwalls> But nobody but hardcore geeks know it's KHTML
[21:21:42] <chromas> I'd use it more but I'm not sure how to get separate browser/file manager instances
[21:21:40] <michealpwalls> Brining epic publicity to the KDE guys and the rest of their products. Instead, most people think it's Googles engine and some attribute it to Apple
[21:21:21] <michealpwalls> If Apple did the right think, KHTML would be what WebKit is today :/
[21:20:59] <michealpwalls> It's still sad. Bullshit Apple...
[21:20:59] <chromas> but still has khtml
[21:20:53] <michealpwalls> Well that's good, then
[21:20:50] <michealpwalls> Oh!
[21:20:46] <chromas> Konq uses webkit now by default
[21:20:44] <michealpwalls> Apple != Opera or Google. Apple takes but gives *nothing* back
[21:20:33] <michealpwalls> Yea, well at this point (Nobody takes blame but Apple...) KHTML has fallen *way* behind WebKit/Blink..
[21:20:00] <chromas> There's always Konqueror. It doesn't have any extensions, much like Opera
[21:19:34] <Blackmoore> damnit
[21:19:33] <chromas> But it's the last one to have features
[21:19:23] <Blackmoore> vs 20. geh..
[21:18:32] <Blackmoore> 12.16
[21:17:56] <chromas> It's ancient though
[21:17:46] <Blackmoore> I'll grab that when i'm home. mabe after i install the new HD.
[21:17:03] <Blackmoore> ah there is a version. cool.
[21:13:46] <chromas> There's 12 and then there's any webkit-based browser
[21:09:18] <Blackmoore> or do they agree with the (truthful) rant..
[21:08:41] <Blackmoore> anyway Is there a Linux edition of Opera at all these days?
[21:07:55] <Blackmoore> oh. AskScienceFiction.
[21:07:25] <Blackmoore> I'm in the minecraft forums, and talesfromtechsupport.
[21:06:59] <Blackmoore> nice!
[21:01:54] <michealpwalls> Oh they have stats right at the top haha didn't even notice: "Upstreamed commits in Chromium: 210, Blink: 909, V8: 16."
[20:58:34] <michealpwalls> And everything tha tforks from Chromium once they update
[20:58:11] <michealpwalls> Including Google Chrome users on Windows, Chromium users on Ubuntu and etc.
[20:58:00] <michealpwalls> chromas: Here's an example, btw. This commit (from an Opera developer) would affect everybody using a chromium based browser in some way: http://src.chromium.org
[20:57:46] <Landon> http://www.reddit.com
[20:57:23] <Landon> there's a daily programming challenge one too, but I can't remember what it is or if it has been active recently
[20:55:05] <Landon> for some good subreddits.. /r/hotpeppers /r/spicy /r/gardening /r/rpg /r/knitting /r/kerbalspaceprogram
[20:54:38] <Landon> just... don't visit the front page and you're set
[20:53:54] <michealpwalls> Fuck I flip around wikipedia for hours and hours! I'm such a weirdo :/
[20:53:41] <michealpwalls> I do that on Wikipedia and soylent. I totaly get it :/
[20:53:28] <michealpwalls> LOL
[20:53:24] <Landon> ... they don't have a very active kilt subreddit though
[20:53:15] <Landon> sort by top discussions
[20:53:05] <Landon> I like to search for whatever my brain is on
[20:52:56] <Landon> michealpwalls: eh, it's where everyone's at, lots of interesting conversation
[20:52:40] <Blackmoore> we really need a catagory for techsupport crap like that
[20:52:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> it's worse to read than xml, much less things that are supposed to be human readable
[20:51:54] <michealpwalls> *everybody* is on reddit :/
[20:51:52] <Blackmoore> I was bored.
[20:51:51] <michealpwalls> I'm such a minority at school LMAO
[20:51:42] <michealpwalls> I never "got into" reddit..
[20:51:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> reddit hurts my eyes
[20:51:17] <michealpwalls> KDE *heart*
[20:51:13] <chromas> Well if they want to be just like KDE then they should have ported the old stuff to new toolkit then threw it away
[20:51:10] <michealpwalls> I love that history hehe
[20:50:56] <Blackmoore> http://www.reddit.com
[20:50:52] <chromas> Yeah
[20:50:39] <michealpwalls> WebKit was KHTML, from Konq. ;)
[20:50:29] <michealpwalls> Technically speaking, they *are* KDE..
[20:50:18] <chromas> So you're saying they're pulling a KDE instead of a beta? :)
[20:48:25] <michealpwalls> But yet, all 3 are blazing fast, support the cutting edge web techologies and integrate extremely well in their respective environments
[20:48:00] <michealpwalls> And that lets them each have lean, fully integrated browser
[20:47:49] <michealpwalls> In fact, that's *why* the 3 split.. Apple, Google and Opera. They all pull from chromium/blink and they all do upstream patches to chromium/blink... But they *all* provide their own interface
[20:47:11] <michealpwalls> They'd never merge that stuff, it would fuck the Chromium UI silly :P
[20:47:04] <michealpwalls> No, Opera is a fork of Chromium. They commit upstream to the Blink engine and everything they still use in Chromium, but their own UI doesn't (And couldn't..) get put into chromium repo, hee
[20:46:20] <chromas> So it's not all going to Chromium then
[20:46:04] <chromas> And Chromium Opera for Windows
[20:45:55] <michealpwalls> Although, not the features...
[20:45:50] <michealpwalls> Basically
[20:45:49] <michealpwalls> Yes
[20:45:44] <chromas> So does that make Chromium Opera for Linux?
[20:45:43] <michealpwalls> expanding support for bleeding edge *web* technologies, not *tracking* technologies...
[20:45:15] <michealpwalls> Making it faster.. faster... faster and plugging potential security holes.
[20:44:53] <michealpwalls> While Firefox makes new "features" and tries to track you, that's what Opera is doign :)
[20:44:41] <michealpwalls> http://operasoftware.github.io
[20:43:12] <michealpwalls> Ever heard of FirefoxOS? LAMO
[20:43:11] <chromas> Need an extension for everything
[20:43:09] <michealpwalls> Firefox is a full-blown operating system at this point.
[20:43:03] <michealpwalls> wtf are you talking about?
[20:42:44] <chromas> But at the same time, Firefox doesn't have any features built-in.
[20:42:37] <michealpwalls> But boy does it have features...
[20:42:33] <michealpwalls> Your *web browser* sucks at rendering web pages.
[20:42:25] <michealpwalls> Think about that for a second..
[20:42:23] <michealpwalls> They focus TOO MUCH on functionality... And neglect the engine that actually *renders* the fucking web.
[20:42:09] <michealpwalls> But as I said, I shifted my priority... Feature bloat is moot to me now. I couldn't care less. In fact I blame it for why I hate Firefox now...
[20:42:09] <chromas> Go ahead. We need more firewood
[20:41:46] <michealpwalls> There are still some gaping functionality gaps in Opera v20, I'm not going to lie.
[20:39:09] <michealpwalls> Opera has Mouse Gestures, Rocker Gestures and the keyboard shortcut infrastructure is stille xpanding, but compared to Opera v12 it's still limited.
[20:38:45] <chromas> I don't think they have the new Opera for Linux anyway
[20:38:43] <michealpwalls> They're fucking robots over there
[20:38:40] <michealpwalls> chromas: Yea, so Opera is actually one of the biggest contributors to upstream Chromium and Blink believe it or not. You can check their commits
[20:38:12] <chromas> michealpwalls: You're fired!
[20:37:59] <michealpwalls> It wasn't until recently I changed my veiw and supported Opera's direction :/
[20:37:58] <Landon> I'm a diehard adherent to tabs on the right
[20:37:48] <michealpwalls> Yea, me too. That's also what kept me on firefox for the longest time as well
[20:37:45] <chromas> So do they add anything on top of Chromium? It used to have good keyboard navigation and the narrow screen view was awesome
[20:37:39] -!- CyprusBlue has quit []
[20:37:37] <Landon> so now I'm back on the firefox
[20:37:32] <Landon> michealpwalls: which is disappointing, a huge part of why I used opera was the interface customization abilities
[20:37:04] <chromas> You'd also have to be on an Apple for it to not be a total pile of shit
[20:37:01] <michealpwalls> chromas: Well, the bad news is a lot of those features are never coming back. They've made a bold and dramatic shift in their priorities at Opera :/
[20:36:31] <chromas> The Android doesn't have Link anymore. It just takes me to their web site
[20:36:24] <michealpwalls> I came back though. There really is no good alternatives in the browser industry. They're all steaming piles of shit. Safari is really nice.. But you'd have to be an apple hipster to use that :/
[20:36:01] <chromas> Does it have any of the features back yet? Like Link?
[20:35:40] <michealpwalls> At first I revolted like a crazy person haha
[20:35:33] <michealpwalls> Yea I left it alone for awhile once they switched
[20:35:20] <chromas> Heh, I quit Opera when they switched :)
[20:35:02] <michealpwalls> haha I know, unorthodox. But they're on the "up 'n up"... I follow the growth
[20:34:50] <chromas> Now that it has no features
[20:34:44] <chromas> ew
[20:34:38] <michealpwalls> I use opera as my main browser now (Opera v20, based on Chromium with Blink engine)
[20:34:27] <michealpwalls> Oh! Haven't tried opera mail lately since the restart. I hear good things!
[20:33:51] <chromas> It's the old name for Opera Mail
[20:33:44] <chromas> Not a fork
[20:33:22] <michealpwalls> 'cause if the answer to that is yes, I dont' wanna try it :P
[20:33:14] <michealpwalls> hehe what's M2? Actually nevermind, the real question is, did they start the M2 project by forking a web-browser? :)
[20:32:50] <chromas> You could switch to M2 :)
[20:32:21] <michealpwalls> 'cause we're not retarded
[20:32:18] <michealpwalls> And the first step is *not* going to be to fork a web browser LMAO
[20:32:10] <michealpwalls> But seriously, this is why I think me and my friend from college are going to write an email client from scratch.
[20:31:32] <michealpwalls> Named after that Ghost Busters character LMAO that's about what it is. A fucking monster from a science fiction movie!
[20:31:14] <michealpwalls> Yea, their stupid XULRunner or whatever?
[20:31:03] <michealpwalls> ^ I been reading that on pipedot. Odd concept. Ham radios!
[20:31:01] <chromas> Could be the interface. Isn't it made up of XML and javascript?
[20:30:47] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Anonymous Wants to Develop Secure Radio Communications - http://sylnt.us - reinventing-the-wheel
[20:29:40] <michealpwalls> LOL what the fuck script is it running? Did it seriously just try to parse the excel document I attached?!
[20:29:23] <michealpwalls> http://oi60.tinypic.com
[20:25:57] <michealpwalls> I tried to an attach an excel workbook to Thunderbird email and I get this exception thrown from deep within Thunderbird:
[20:25:42] <michealpwalls> Oh jesus christ...
[20:24:30] <Blackmoore> *microsoft Bob wearing a frilly pink dress*
[20:23:36] <michealpwalls> haha
[20:23:15] <pingus> wait, think I had that backwards. windows for unix, or boys for girls or something
[20:22:49] <michealpwalls> Shifted a lot of their policies to reflect it, too. Weird times we live in today, boys!
[20:22:36] <michealpwalls> Yea could be, Microsoft turned weird a few years back. They declared that they're no longer a "software development" company, but a "devices and services" company
[20:22:01] <pingus> there used to be "unix services for windows(R)" or something like that but I think it's obsolete
[20:21:46] <michealpwalls> Of course it's for their corporate customers, but meh. The plumbing is all there
[20:21:17] <michealpwalls> MS ports unix shit to NT all the time. In fact I think they have a full department dedicated to this task
[20:21:04] <michealpwalls> That's what cygwin and the other one are, aren't they? Windows is POSIX compliant, believe it or not :P
[20:19:28] <chromas> But still keep the 'gnu' userspace
[20:19:11] <chromas> Hm, I wonder how hard it would be to replace Linux with the Windows kernel
[20:16:07] <michealpwalls> "I didn't like the colour of blue so I patched and recompiled explorer.exe. Why don't you support me?"
[20:15:49] <michealpwalls> hah yea, says the Gentoo guy :P
[20:15:44] <michealpwalls> And you're not getting rid of it, or MS will hire a goon to steal something from your house at night.
[20:15:27] <chromas> "I make my own explorer.exe"
[20:15:22] <michealpwalls> Or, for example, you're ripped out vi and replaced it with emacs. I can't even tell what fucking editor you have. On Windows I Know ya'll got notepad.exe
[20:14:57] <michealpwalls> And I know it will work.. 'cause I know you ahvent' swapped out explorer.exe for some "hip" and "with it" alternative. There's a stable, common denominator to target. On linux, it's a fucking shot in the dark everytime
[20:14:16] <michealpwalls> It's like, impossible. As a software developer, if you tell me "Yea, I run Windows" I know exactly the ecosystem of software you have, that I can target...
[20:13:52] <michealpwalls> It's crazy though.. as a software developer, so crazy. In one sentence they'll rejoice at their "choices" but then end the sentence with a sigh, pondering why nobody makes games for them... LMAO
[20:13:11] <chromas> Very true
[20:13:04] <michealpwalls> haha I would get flamed out of most linux communities with my radical views :)
[20:12:32] <michealpwalls> Is he running Arch or Gentoo? Well just stop guessing and ask them to fill out this form, 'cause who fucking *knows* what they're running :)
[20:11:54] <michealpwalls> :)
[20:11:53] <michealpwalls> Oh man, why isn't it the year of the linux desktop again!?
[20:11:46] <chromas> With moar XML
[20:11:45] <michealpwalls> He's a linux user. That means he could have SDL, or not. He could be running ALSA but probably is running OSS. It might be safe to target PulseAudio and just hope they're not running ESound from the old GNOME 1/2, or god forbid aRts from the KDE 2/3 ecosystem..
[20:11:20] <chromas> Let's create a new distro to set some standards...
[20:10:39] <michealpwalls> *shoots himself*
[20:10:35] <michealpwalls> Oh god, yes, and some will use init while others use systemD and ubuntu will use Upstart and Apple will continue to use LaunchD. It'll be great, trust me!
[20:09:59] <michealpwalls> LOL!
[20:09:45] <chromas> B..but we need 384 Linux distros that all have the same software available but put files in slightly different locations and have different default settings!
[20:09:05] <chromas> ^
[20:08:57] <michealpwalls> I have the same opinion about the 450 million Linux communities, too, so meh ^
[20:07:25] <michealpwalls> Such hard work being poured into 2 completely different systems that solve the identicle problem :O
[20:06:57] <michealpwalls> There are decent articles on pipedot that doesn't exist on SN and vice versa. It's a shame to me! :/
[20:06:36] <michealpwalls> If only this edge-groups could come together...
[20:06:26] <michealpwalls> Man the most comments an article has on the frontpage of pipedot is 7. 7 comments!
[20:03:21] <michealpwalls> god I'm retarded
[20:03:17] <michealpwalls> I kept typing "greatfull" LMAO
[20:03:12] <michealpwalls> If it wasn't for spell check, it would have never happened :P
[20:03:04] <michealpwalls> grateful is a weird spelling
[20:00:44] <michealpwalls> haha
[20:00:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> think it's time to break out my hunter-gatherer skills on the fridge.
[20:00:31] <michealpwalls> So many hard lessons learned on tha tweekend...
[20:00:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> yep
[20:00:05] <michealpwalls> Good times, lemme tell ya :P
[19:58:50] <michealpwalls> LMAO oh man what a disaster that was... Fuck. Turns out it caused another bug. I fixed that.. Which caused ANOTHER bug. What a shitty weekend :(
[19:58:32] <michealpwalls> Just run it, it doesn't explode, BAM BUG FIXED!
[19:58:24] <michealpwalls> So being the lazy programmer I am, I hacked up a little solution. It amounted to changing a single variable's value, which cascaded all the way down. Since I changed 1 thing, who needs to run it through all the tests again?
[19:58:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> made a perl script to ~completely~ roll up npcs for 2nd edition dnd. it thinks all weapons are 1d6/1d6 for thieves for some reason though.
[19:57:49] <michealpwalls> haha that's what I did basically. There was a bug during production that I got emailed about on a saturday evening..
[19:56:40] <TheMightyBuzzard> yeah, i got a weird math bug i have to trace down in one of mine. will do it later when it's not easier to just change the results by hand.
[19:55:59] -!- Blackmoore [Blackmoore!~4028ef96@64.40.xqg.gvs] has joined #Soylent
[19:55:56] <michealpwalls> Was so embarrassing LOL
[19:55:52] <TheMightyBuzzard> they are way more fun to write. sit down and complete something in hours or a single day.
[19:55:49] <michealpwalls> My "hack" caused a bug that resurfaced 3 fucking times :(
[19:55:37] <michealpwalls> Although... I learned my lesson this time 'round.
[19:55:26] <michealpwalls> I love hacks haha
[19:55:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> hacks vs programming
[19:55:12] <michealpwalls> I over think things a lot sometimes
[19:55:07] <michealpwalls> haha touche
[19:54:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> s'true but not an issue in a 100 line perl script
[19:54:34] <michealpwalls> That's why switch is the only acceptable goto in structured programming
[19:54:23] <michealpwalls> if structures are taxing, though. They exponentially increase branching for the compiler :/
[19:54:15] <TheMightyBuzzard> it's really not an issue for your own code until you start confusing yourself doing it in recursive functions.
[19:53:48] <chromas> Oh, what I meant was an if has multiple outs so it's okay :-)
[19:53:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> chromas, ideally but i will multiple out like a boss if it's something just for me.
[19:51:23] <michealpwalls> lol
[19:51:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> anything under 500k lines i can't keep the majority of the flow in my head is spaghetti to my mind.
[19:50:54] <michealpwalls> Oh man what a tough lesson that was!
[19:50:49] <michealpwalls> haha TheMightyBuzzard. One of my professors in project management taught me a lesson in "gold plating", the hard way :(
[19:50:43] <chromas> If a function has multiple outs then it should be diagrammed the same as an if()
[19:50:13] <michealpwalls> And it should hit you, like a big brick. "Ow! This isn't structured at all! It's like fucking spaghetti!"
[19:49:57] <michealpwalls> chromas: Think about it like this. Anytime you might think "Damn, this is really structured", try to flowchart it :)
[19:49:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> i was always going to my professor saying "you need to fix x, y, and kill z with fire or i'll be forced to use them to change your wallpaper to something horrible"
[19:49:25] <chromas> You know what "structured programming" is so you're off to a good start :-)
[19:48:49] <michealpwalls> haha TheMightyBuzzard. Maybe!
[19:48:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> prolly a good idea. you might even know your ass from a hole in the ground when you graduate if you keep it up.
[19:48:32] <michealpwalls> plus I'm always picking the brains of my professors with Ph.Ds in computer science or software engineering heehee
[19:48:09] <michealpwalls> hehehe
[19:48:07] <michealpwalls> For a college student, I read a ridiculous amount of computer science literature in my spare time :/
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[19:47:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> i like to throw one in every now and then just to be contrary
[19:47:26] <michealpwalls> LMAO chromas
[19:47:22] <michealpwalls> because it's dependent on a single variable, compilers can actually optimize the shit out of those structures and they become the fastest flow controls you can possible make
[19:47:21] <chromas> And jumping into a while(0)
[19:47:15] <chromas> Well
[19:46:54] <michealpwalls> The only acceptable use of a goto construct in "structured programming" is a very well thought-out switch ("select" for you VB guys :P )
[19:46:25] <michealpwalls> haha
[19:46:18] <chromas> Oh, I thought it was just use function calls and pretend they're not really gotos
[19:46:10] <michealpwalls> Etc. etc.
[19:46:08] <michealpwalls> No loop should break out of the loop contrary to the loop's condition.. No function should exit more than 1 way (I.e: return when something goes wrong)
[19:45:41] <michealpwalls> Jesus, that's like *the* rule of Structured Programming
[19:45:33] <chromas> Is that a real rule?
[19:45:20] <michealpwalls> LOL
[19:45:20] <michealpwalls> It's just so easy to say return false;
[19:45:14] <michealpwalls> The rule I break the most is multiple exit points :D
[19:44:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> i know for damn sure a lot of my quickie bash or perl scripts do absolutely no input sanitizing.
[19:43:52] <michealpwalls> haha exactly
[19:43:43] <michealpwalls> That have no remotes :)
[19:43:40] <TheMightyBuzzard> i mean we prolly all have some quick, buggy, and ugly ones that should never see the light of day but work for us.
[19:43:39] <michealpwalls> You shoudl see some of the hackish shit I've thrown together "in a pinch", although no you shouldn't haha I keep all that stuff in local git repos :P
[19:43:15] <michealpwalls> haha amen! ^
[19:43:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> nothing wrong with writing hacks for yourself, only with distributing them to others.
[19:42:55] <michealpwalls> :P
[19:42:53] <michealpwalls> Just make another form, fuckit
[19:42:49] <michealpwalls> continuity is a pain in the ass LMAO
[19:42:23] <chromas> Extremely hackish. You'd have to go in several layers of windows to get somewhere, then slowly back out to go somewhere else
[19:42:16] <michealpwalls> LMAO
[19:42:13] <michealpwalls> Fuck I gave up renaming my controls a long time ago
[19:42:03] <michealpwalls> default icons, default formnames
[19:41:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> ouch
[19:41:51] <michealpwalls> LMAO chromas that's more common than you would want to believe :X
[19:41:34] <michealpwalls> haha
[19:41:34] <chromas> When my mom used to work in a nursing home, the software she used looked like it was written in VB. One of the programs was even labeled "Form1"
[19:41:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> there's no reason it couldn't be, it's simply the language people who should never be paid to program chose. same as java today.
[19:39:29] <michealpwalls> Then they used th elanguage to write production systems (dull)
[19:39:20] <michealpwalls> LMAO
[19:39:19] <michealpwalls> I think, everybody forgot to read the footnote on VB's release? "This will make teaching programming concepts to programming students so much easier!"
[19:38:57] <chromas> It had source code instead of boilerplate
[19:38:45] <chromas> At least VB was easy to use
[19:38:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> sorry, that should be java coders nowadays i guess
[19:38:21] <michealpwalls> haha touche
[19:38:15] <chromas> It's full of hair product and stubble
[19:38:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> hiring vb coders
[19:38:13] <michealpwalls> hah
[19:38:10] <chromas> It's Metro
[19:37:55] <michealpwalls> But in practice.. It fucking *increases* it. LMAO how was that even possible?
[19:37:43] <michealpwalls> What kills me about 8 is the Metro UI... Looking at it, you would *think* it would dramatically (exponentially) lower the resource requirements and memory footprint..
[19:36:40] <TheMightyBuzzard> i mean the file copy subsystem looks nifty but it's not really an issue when it's a gaming only box
[19:36:31] <chromas> Not sure about 8 but stuff like Diablo 2 run far better in Wine than win 7
[19:36:09] <michealpwalls> Even StarCraft is fucked
[19:36:05] <michealpwalls> If you want a laugh, run some old legacy games in Windows 8. It's identicle to Wine :)
[19:35:50] <TheMightyBuzzard> there's nothing in 8 i want
[19:35:41] <michealpwalls> :)
[19:35:40] <michealpwalls> The old "if it aint broke.."
[19:35:33] <michealpwalls> haha yea same, pretty much :P
[19:35:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> ya, my 7 install for gaming is staying 7 until it's not supported by games anymore.
[19:34:58] <michealpwalls> But meh. Yea, wasn't worth it. Fuck Windows 8 and fuck secure boot :P
[19:34:38] <michealpwalls> turn it *on* and exempt OS', I mean..
[19:34:37] * TheMightyBuzzard chuckles
[19:34:17] <michealpwalls> It's all "I see your exempted Gentoo, and I raise you A BUNCH OF DELETED PARTITIONS!"
[19:34:04] <michealpwalls> But jesus... Windows 8 is a fucking monster
[19:33:59] <michealpwalls> See I bought this because it boasted really good UEFI setup... I could turn secure boot off, I could turn it off and exempt OS' (That's hwo I got it booting Gentoo in secure boot....)
[19:33:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> i will never buy a mobo or laptop i can't turn secure boot off on
[19:33:19] <michealpwalls> They can sit in a VM and think about what they've done...
[19:33:13] <michealpwalls> Yea I vowed from tha tpoint to never try the 8s outside a VM...
[19:33:01] <TheMightyBuzzard> yup yup
[19:32:57] <michealpwalls> I was fucking furious
[19:32:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> s'what VMs were created for.
[19:32:54] <michealpwalls> Needless to say, that was Windows 8's last days on the laptop LMAO
[19:32:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> gah
[19:32:35] <michealpwalls> Was horrible. I tried to recover them with GParted Live but they were fucking gone completely, not recoverable :(
[19:32:21] <michealpwalls> Fucking deleted all my ext3 partitions, including the grub partition :(
[19:32:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> only works if you remember what you want rather than "that program i used for editing a weird file type nobody ever heard of"
[19:32:11] <michealpwalls> What makes it so terrible is all the low-level changes, IMHO. It's a very hostile OS. It attacks other OS' that it doesn't have a key for, such as my poor Gentoo
[19:32:03] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - On the Horizon: 185 TB Tape Cartridges - http://sylnt.us - and-I-thought-tapes-had-died
[19:31:40] <michealpwalls> Then it's just "bad", not terrible :)
[19:31:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> told them i'd pay them the cost of a new win8 disk to take the free downgrade to 7, they still wouldn't
[19:31:35] <michealpwalls> hah 8 is terrible until you figure out you can use the same win7 flow with it... tap the windows flag, start typing. Hit enter when it highlights what you're looking for
[19:30:41] <TheMightyBuzzard> yeah, wasn't bad. 8 can eat my ass though. took me like 5 minutes to figure out how to get to the desktop then longer to get FF installed for the parents so they won't get IE fucked.
[19:29:18] <michealpwalls> I really like the windows 7 menu. It grew on me fast...
[19:29:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> I NEED a menu system or I'm fucked.
[19:28:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> nah, i have too many progs to remember wtf they're all named or what i need to search for
[19:28:25] <michealpwalls> It was so sad and unfair. Poor Gentoo :(
[19:28:19] <michealpwalls> This laptop came with Windows 8... It fucking clobbered Gentoo.
[19:27:47] <michealpwalls> Same with the insane start-menu. Just hit the flag and start typing. Fuck it :P
[19:27:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> 7 is pretty good for games if the wine framerate is too low.
[19:27:37] <michealpwalls> I'd open the control panel and be like "What the fuck?" until I figured out I can just open it and start typing (brilliant, by the way!)
[19:27:17] <michealpwalls> This was when Windows 7 was spreading like the flu
[19:27:09] <michealpwalls> I used to make jabs all the time about that... I found myself fixing/repairing Windows machines almost every other day, yet I had no Windows machines in my house for years and years. Hadn't even used Windows seriously since Windows XP LMAO
[19:26:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> i'm especially happy to tell them i've never used windows 8, and have no idea how to fix their problem.
[19:26:23] <michealpwalls> "had to support far less windows problems" haha
[19:26:17] <michealpwalls> LOL I call that a victory
[19:25:53] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh no. i won big by proclaiming myself a *nix guy. had to support far less windows problems for family for free
[19:25:19] <michealpwalls> I was all "Meh. Just give me a machine and I'll program it."
[19:25:06] <michealpwalls> *everybody* lost when they proudly proclaimed themselves either a "PC guy" or a "mac" guy...
[19:25:01] <TheMightyBuzzard> it does have some nifty bells and whistles about window placement but it's way too intrusive for my tastes.
[19:24:53] <michealpwalls> Although, i pride myself on being 'platform agnostic'. In fact that's why I got selected for this job!
[19:24:40] <chromas> ^
[19:24:35] <michealpwalls> I've been using KDE so long that... using anything but KDE feels clunky :/
[19:24:14] <michealpwalls> LMAO TheMightyBuzzard. Touche! I'm KDE all the way, although that's probs. more of a muscle-memory thing
[19:24:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> or adults who want to customize the shit out of everything, again so they can get shit done.
[19:23:50] <TheMightyBuzzard> they don't seem to want adults who just want to get shit done
[19:23:50] <michealpwalls> It fits them perfectly, though. Esp. the youngest, who doesn't yet have supurb hand-eye coordination. He just jams the mouse to the corner to trigger the Activities screen
[19:23:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> well it is probably the best demographic age to target for gnome lately
[19:23:06] <michealpwalls> I was really surpised. It wasn't planned at all, just happened
[19:23:03] <chromas> I like Gnome 1; that was it
[19:22:56] <michealpwalls> Honestly, it really fits them well!
[19:22:50] <michealpwalls> haha chromas
[19:22:45] <chromas> I'm sorry to hear that
[19:22:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> i'm particularly digging openbox lately despite having to config file edit and reload to change/add hotkeys
[19:22:32] <michealpwalls> All of them are really good, in their own way. haha speaking of which, did I ever tell you guys my 2 kids use gnome 3? They're 5 and 7 :D
[19:21:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> most seem to lately but you can generally change it if it bugs you
[19:21:43] <chromas> Firefox never remembers my session
[19:21:41] <michealpwalls> They "get me" LMAO
[19:21:39] <michealpwalls> I really love linux window managers
[19:21:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> nod nod
[19:21:26] <michealpwalls> Yea
[19:21:20] <chromas> On Linux, you only get that if the window manager does it
[19:21:03] <michealpwalls> haha yea TheMightyBuzzard
[19:20:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> it's especially fun in FF if you haven't got it set to open the tabs/windows i had open last time
[19:20:53] <chromas> On Windows and Mac
[19:20:28] <michealpwalls> I think alt+f4 is an os-level shortcut for closing the active window, so Iunno why any application programmer would implement alt+q or ctrl+q :/
[19:20:01] <michealpwalls> LOL so many times I hit q by accident, killing the client
[19:20:00] <chromas> Did it come from Apple? Or is it older? I remember apple-W or command-W or something from Skool
[19:19:53] <michealpwalls> Yea exactly.. I remember the battle.net client had alt+q to quit and alt+w to "wisper" somebody in chat (PM)
[19:19:33] <michealpwalls> Really bad user experience :/
[19:19:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> which sucks balls if you meant to hit ^W
[19:19:28] <michealpwalls> It's such a bad shortcut IMHO
[19:19:23] <chromas> Quassel
[19:19:18] <chromas> Just tried it and it closed by IRC too
[19:19:12] <michealpwalls> haha yea
[19:18:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> not that i've noticed. it n moz both love that ^Q means off we fuck and you're not changing it.
[19:18:37] <chromas> I think a lot of opensource programs have that shortcut
[19:18:14] <michealpwalls> sorry ctrl+q
[19:18:06] <michealpwalls> Probs. in the preferences but haven't been arsed to look :P
[19:17:54] <michealpwalls> Only thing I would do is remove the alt+q shortcut hehe
[19:17:30] <michealpwalls> Yea I think Xchat kinda died out (The community)
[19:17:23] <TheMightyBuzzard> yep, since xchat is essentially abandoned
[19:17:12] <chromas> Looks like xchat. It's a fork, right?
[19:17:04] <michealpwalls> Yea I'm totaly happy with it :)
[19:16:52] <TheMightyBuzzard> yeah, it's a pretty decent client if you want a stand-alone gui client
[19:16:22] * chromas still hates that firefox treats single words as domains
[19:16:20] <michealpwalls> I like it
[19:16:08] * chromas is researching hexchat
[19:16:06] <michealpwalls> The hibernation probably caused an exception to be thrown in the child thread, which was unhandled and orphaned the thread while it's parent sat waiting for it to finish cleanly and return execution
[19:15:16] <michealpwalls> It's an exceptional case, usually on resume. In my case it resumed from hibernation to find it's thread orphaned
[19:14:54] <chromas> (freezing the system, not the faulty program itself)
[19:14:45] <michealpwalls> During execution of the command, SIGCHLD will be blocked, and SIGINT and SIGQUIT will be ignored.
[19:14:35] <chromas> We have preemptive multitasking to prevent that
[19:14:16] <michealpwalls> Basically, you have multiple threads... Spin off a thread and then in that thread, call a blocking function like system() or open()
[19:14:02] <michealpwalls> Not really no, it's bad architecture of the program. Any low-level programming language can be used to do it
[19:13:54] <chromas> I've had that happen on Win and Lin though. Shouldn't be possible for a program to freeze the system like that
[19:13:21] <chromas> Doesn't that have to be a bug in the OS?
[19:08:44] <michealpwalls> I was sitting in Task Manager trying to kill process' but nothing was responsive HEH!
[19:08:31] <michealpwalls> Technology is so funny when it fails
[19:08:20] <michealpwalls> After I clicked 'ok' on the unhandled exception dialogs hehe
[19:07:37] <michealpwalls> then everything started up again fine
[19:07:33] <michealpwalls> I started and then interrupted the log-off process just after it killed hexchat LOL
[19:06:13] <michealpwalls> Damn HexChat just caused the entire system to be unresponsive. Blocking system call somewhere? :/
[19:05:51] <michealpwalls> That was quite poor
[19:04:35] -!- mode/#Soylent [+v FoobarBazbot_] by juggler
[19:04:35] -!- FoobarBazbot_ [FoobarBazbot_!~FoobarBaz@66.249.nkq.wjg] has joined #Soylent
[19:03:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> chromas, try aptitude. it's less retarded.
[19:02:50] -!- michealpwalls [michealpwalls!~michealpw@dq-p708q-fi65.georgianc.on.ca] has joined #Soylent
[18:59:04] <chromas> lol
[18:59:02] <chromas> At least up to 12, it still has full MDI ability
[18:58:57] <TK_> Pat their heads and rub their tummies
[18:58:38] <TK_> Just tell them they're clever
[18:58:30] <TK_> you don't say...
[18:58:24] <TK_> heh
[18:58:24] <chromas> "Hey, look what this does"
[18:58:15] <chromas> I remember telling people about Opera and tabs; they thought it was stupid. Then Firefox got tabs
[18:57:16] <TK_> mo' browsers, mo' problems
[18:57:04] <chromas> That was before Opera went beta
[18:57:01] <TK_> That won't stop me
[18:56:49] <TK_> and here I was thinking I might try Opera out
[18:56:27] <TK_> I'll have to try it out in my mint VM
[18:56:22] <chromas> When I was using Windows, Opera would lock up a lot if I had more than three or four bloat tabs open, like /.
[18:55:28] <chromas> I found apt-cache but that's dumb
[18:55:25] <TK_> I'm using Win7, WinXP and WinXP x64 edition
[18:55:19] <chromas> Also apt-get doesn't search for some reason, even though that's half of what it does
[18:55:09] <TK_> maybe it's the OS
[18:53:59] <chromas> Not yet, though since I switched to Mint a couple days ago, I get lots of freezes on everything after suspend-to-ramming and Firefox still wants to 'recover' my tabs from weeks ago when I start it
[18:53:12] <TK_> I can't for the life of me figure out the actual reason, the crashes are sudden and instantaneous
[18:52:45] <TK_> chromas, do you get random crashes when you try to do too many things at once in Firefox?
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[18:48:25] <TK_> Holy shat, I just realized why FF 29 is the best release. By crashing twice every hour, they've essentially fixed the memory leak problem!
[18:39:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> indeed. keeps you from having to find out you don't like something after paying $100+ for it.
[18:37:52] <Blackmoore|lunch> yeah. i usually have glenlevet at the house. Sotch tasting partys rock.
[18:36:59] <TheMightyBuzzard> Talisker lately but most of the Glen-s are worth drinking.
[18:36:35] <Blackmoore|lunch> which scoth?
[18:36:09] Blackmoore is now known as Blackmoore|lunch
[18:35:50] <chromas> Bud Lightbeer
[18:35:49] <Blackmoore> I'll drink concentrated beer.. (whiskey, scotch)
[18:35:41] <chromas> Hey it was good enough for a Pixar movie
[18:35:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> ghyeurg! i'm not a beer snob but i'll be sober before i intentionally drink diet beer.
[18:34:26] * chromas dillutes TheMightyBuzzard's scotch with Budlight or something
[18:33:38] * chromas moves TheMightyBuzzard's medication by a few millimeters
[18:33:23] <TheMightyBuzzard> and by medication i mean scotch.
[18:33:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> s'all good, i have medication.
[18:32:32] * NCommander moves everything TheMightyBuzzard owns by a few millimeters
[18:27:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> sup, yo
[18:27:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> just my personal preference and ocd though.
[18:27:29] * NCommander waves
[18:26:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> well they align left for me too after a bit of user style jiggery.
[18:25:26] <chromas> Oh it's 29 now
[18:24:51] <chromas> Weird. I'm in FF 875,362.2½
[18:24:20] <chromas> Also, he and SedBot're back
[18:24:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> chromas, the nav icons align to the right edge on both FF and chromium for me.
[18:23:54] <Blackmoore> [adjective]!
[18:23:16] <chromas> FoobarBazbot captured those [quantity] of [adjective][nouns] in his basement and attack him after bacon++ing now
[18:22:43] <Blackmoore> eh. you honsetly cant get to "get off my lawn" till you see your own kids graduate.
[18:22:28] <chromas> Everything's left on mine
[18:22:24] <pingus> whatever happened to the [QUANTITY] of [ADJECTIVE][NOUNS] that used to serve up the pages?
[18:22:16] <chromas> ?
[18:21:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> only thing I really can't stand is the ul in the topnav div aligning right. it's sick and wrong.
[18:19:59] mrcoolbp|afk is now known as mrcoolbp
[18:18:33] <chromas> ^
[18:18:21] <TheMightyBuzzard> pingus, honestly, so do I. doesn't mean I won't give them shit about it though.
[18:17:50] <chromas> While we're at it, we can invent <stub> tags that tell the browser where to get a block of HTML so we can use that to load comments onClick instead of using Javascript
[18:17:00] * pingus likes the red theme..
[18:15:28] <chromas> Right. The color scheme will be inverted from the 'other guy', with inverted trim gradients and complementary colors
[18:14:34] <TheMightyBuzzard> well for a low value of can't
[18:14:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> chromas, don't forget the red theme that you can't change.
[18:13:37] <chromas> And there will be a long, stretched out voting process on the new name
[18:13:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> If you remember mosaic, I'd like some "get off my lawn" lessons from you. I don't think I have the inflections quite perfect.
[18:13:23] <chromas> Well, we'll have one browser created from the ground up and one that's like Mozilla or something that a couple devs will start trying to tame and it will keep breaking
[18:11:40] <Blackmoore> so like Mosaic right?
[18:11:01] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Winning Strategy for Rock-Paper-Scissors - http://sylnt.us - SERIOUS.-BUSINESS.
[18:10:27] <chromas> Time for SoylentWeb
[18:09:17] <pingus> ugh, seems like each browser is in a race to the bottom
[18:09:05] <chromas> Replacing skins with 'themes' that you have to download but do nothing but change the background of empty tabs
[18:08:42] <chromas> Actually, they were already doing that, like throwing out skins
[18:08:24] <chromas> Well they could have just worked webkit/blink into it or something. Didn't have to throw out the entire thing and not start over
[18:07:50] <TheMightyBuzzard> yeah, they did do some innovative stuff back in the day. just too non-extensible for my tastes.
[18:06:24] <chromas> (scrolling back) "Opera is a fork of Chromium". Makes me a sad panda
[18:03:56] <sirecote> touche, it is pretty trivial to setup
[17:58:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> i may do it in a bit. shouldn't take more than 5-10m aside from the download.
[17:57:07] <sirecote> although the idea of setting up tails just for kicks intrigues me when i have some time
[17:56:49] <sirecote> yeah i'm pretty much the same way
[17:53:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> disallowing tracking cookies. you know, the easy shat.
[17:52:50] <TheMightyBuzzard> low hanging fruit is generally enough for me. VPN, noscript, adblock plus, chromium for all google services that you need to log in for.
[17:51:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> i mean, i don't even encrypt /home
[17:50:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> tails in a VM wouldn't be a bad idea but it's really too much effort unless you're far more vehement about your privacy than I am.
[17:49:58] <Blackmoore> gnight
[17:47:38] -!- prospectacle [prospectacle!~3a6b4f4a@n74-623-21-69.mit519.act.optusnet.com.au] has parted #Soylent
[17:47:31] <prospectacle> part
[17:47:30] <sirecote> thanks you too
[17:47:26] <sirecote> then use another environment for my online persona
[17:47:24] <prospectacle> goodnight all. Have a good weekend and beyond.
[17:47:16] <sirecote> if i was serious about hiding my browsing habits i would have an environment like tails, and use that to do my browsing that i didn't want associated with me at all.. and hope for the best
[17:46:00] <prospectacle> seems that way, unfortunately
[17:45:55] <prospectacle> seems that way, unfortunatelt
[17:45:38] <sirecote> there's just too much 'value' associated to peoples browsing habits to let it go
[17:45:05] <sirecote> i think at this point if you have any sort of online persona you can expect it to be snorted up in some data dealers db
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[17:41:28] <prospectacle> michealpwalls, what browser would you suggest?
[17:40:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> i don't care if baby-stomping-racists build something. if it's the best, i'll use it.
[17:40:20] <michealpwalls> LOL!
[17:40:15] <sirecote> so i gotta restart the browser every couple hours.. what's the big deal!?
[17:40:00] <TheMightyBuzzard> i never defend software for its ideals. i'm all about the product itself.
[17:39:48] <sirecote> lol I did that as well
[17:39:40] * prospectacle bookmarks iceweasal to read
[17:39:34] <michealpwalls> I still ran it and pretended there wasn't a problem LOL
[17:39:26] <michealpwalls> Even when it was leaking memory in the fucking hundreds of megabytes..
[17:39:17] <michealpwalls> It's a touchy subject, I know. I used to defend Firefox so much because of it's ideals
[17:38:32] <sirecote> hmm i'l lhave to look at that
[17:38:22] <michealpwalls> Read the history on IceWeasal and you will see why I fucking hate mozilla so much.
[17:38:12] <michealpwalls> Debian got hit with bs from Mozilla for patching security holes.. Seriously.
[17:38:00] <michealpwalls> If the push does NOT increase thei rprofits, they're not even interested in it...
[17:37:55] <prospectacle> Seems pretty cozy
[17:37:50] <michealpwalls> Iceweasal is *exactly* what I"m talking about. Mozilla COrporation wont even ACCEPT the bug fixes...
[17:37:37] <michealpwalls> In fact, the presence of IceWeasal should hav ebeen the red flag guys..
[17:37:36] <prospectacle> themightbuzzard, wasn't one of their ex CEOs the vice president just when they happened to get a no-bid contract for the war?
[17:37:15] <michealpwalls> And it's not going to go on forever. It can't :/
[17:37:05] <michealpwalls> BUT.. That's a monumental task
[17:37:00] <michealpwalls> At the end of the day, you *could* preserve Firefox. In fact the Debian guys already have and they call it IceWeasal.
[17:36:29] <TheMightyBuzzard> prospectacle, they don't have that high a level of influence. they're middle-men in the oil game.
[17:36:01] <TheMightyBuzzard> tl;dr of all this: competition good, anticompetitive practices of any sort bad.
[17:35:55] <prospectacle> yes, agreed that monopolies are especially bad
[17:35:54] <michealpwalls> TheMightyBuzzard: That's entirely true, LMAO. Most if it got the way it is now trying to play MS' game :/
[17:35:44] <prospectacle> TheMightyBuzzard, don't haliburton have some responsibility due to their high level of political influence? I mean their war contracts were a coincidence or the result of a competitive tender.
[17:35:28] <michealpwalls> Then about a year later they forked KHTML from the KDE Konquerer project and called it WebKit, 'cause Mozilla is a fucking disaster of software engineering
[17:35:09] <TheMightyBuzzard> microsoft did its damage from a position of monopoly, which see above.
[17:35:04] <sirecote> michealpwalls: i'm not saying fix the rendering bugs, for the most part the browser works, if the privacy issues are the concern that shouldn't be too hard to rip out rather than starting from scratch
[17:35:04] <michealpwalls> They were like "Hey, lets fork mozilla! hit the ground running!"
[17:34:55] <michealpwalls> It's why Apple wrote WebKit.
[17:34:50] <michealpwalls> And glued together with a language and software stack designed specifically to glue mozilla garbage together :/
[17:34:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> prospectacle, haliburton hasn't done squat for damage. they're very good at their jobs overall. failings fall on the people employing them and giving shit orders.
[17:34:26] <michealpwalls> It's unbelievably confusing, poorly documented and disparate (Right word? Everythign is different, as it's the sum of many different parts provided by many different people who speak many different languages)
[17:33:54] <michealpwalls> sirecote: It's not because of lazyness that there exists "simple" rendering bugs in Firefox for going on 6 years or more :/
[17:33:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> michealpwalls, ya, i tried building it. once.
[17:33:45] <prospectacle> TheMightyBuzzard, what about the damage microsoft has done, or haliburton?
[17:33:21] <michealpwalls> Take a peek at anything from Mozilla... Lemme know if you figure it out :)
[17:33:18] <stdhell> michealpwalls: alpine is your friend. :-)
[17:33:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> now when it gets up to monopolistic levels, that's a problem. until then all's fair in love and war.
[17:33:11] <michealpwalls> sirecote: Becaue Mozilla has a notoriously horrible codebase. You think OpenSSL is a joke, jesus..
[17:32:53] <prospectacle> is it under a different name
[17:32:51] <michealpwalls> I considered making an email client, though. I hate that all email clients' step #1 is to fork a full-blown web browser. What a retarded idea!
[17:32:50] <sirecote> you got a good working base from there
[17:32:47] <prospectacle> I google "mozilla personalised web" and couldn't find anything
[17:32:42] <Blackmoore> *replaces web browser with gopher client*
[17:32:41] <TheMightyBuzzard> damage? nah. just more mediocrity instead of superiority of product. if you can't hang with them that's a failing in you for not being good enough.
[17:32:40] <sirecote> why not just fork mozilla and remove all the crap feeding data out.. ?
[17:32:18] <michealpwalls> The web is fucked LMAO
[17:32:12] <michealpwalls> The joke in that sentence is "simple" (dull)
[17:32:07] <michealpwalls> I wrote a simple screen-scraper once
[17:32:01] <Blackmoore> and I'm not good enough to even start it
[17:31:42] <Blackmoore> yeah yeah. i know that's a damn trap.
[17:31:41] <michealpwalls> The web is fucking insane
[17:31:25] <michealpwalls> LMAO
[17:31:24] <michealpwalls> No you don't!
[17:31:17] <Blackmoore> part of me would want to just write a new browser.
[17:31:10] <prospectacle> TheMightyBuzzard. I think that's mostly right. They have the power to do a lot more damage ont he way, though, due to the diverse/broad funding base.
[17:30:50] <michealpwalls> All Roads Lead to Rome. (Read: "Google")
[17:30:41] <michealpwalls> Google "Mozilla Persona" and, fuckit just go to the Mozilla developer blog. Read any of their "ideas"
[17:30:27] <michealpwalls> Jesus.. Google "Mozilla Personalized Web"
[17:30:26] <prospectacle> I'd better start paying more attention to it
[17:30:23] <TheMightyBuzzard> prospectacle, right but they REQUIRE massive growth to continue existing. they leverage too hard. it always bites them in the ass eventually.
[17:30:21] <michealpwalls> You should see what they're working on, man!
[17:30:20] <prospectacle> hmm
[17:30:15] <michealpwalls> prospectacle: More and more with each new release, yup :)
[17:30:01] <prospectacle> michealpwalls, what do you mean "is largely facebook". Do they track my browing habits and send it back to base?
[17:29:15] <michealpwalls> haha
[17:29:15] <prospectacle> TheMighyBuzzard. Lots of cooks seems to be the natural result of the limited liability/stock-trading laws. All the cooks want different things but they can all agree on one thing. Get me all the money you can as fast as you can, however you can. Goes back to east india companies.
[17:29:04] <TheMightyBuzzard> publicly owned, short-term only corps are the zergling rush of business. if you can hold out against one, they're fucked.
[17:29:00] -!- crutchy has quit [Quit: Leaving]
[17:28:03] <michealpwalls> But Firefox blatantly does.
[17:28:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> you either succeed faster or you fail faster. both are positive results.
[17:27:59] <michealpwalls> So is Google, but we all know that and Google doesn't hide it..
[17:27:51] <michealpwalls> Firefox is largely Facebook at this point, in my honest unbiased opinion...
[17:27:36] <michealpwalls> That's it. That is *it*
[17:27:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> prospectacle, yeah. not gonna disagree that it's a better system to have fewer cooks in the kitchen. it always is.
[17:27:34] <TK_> brb, my vendor just arrived
[17:27:33] <michealpwalls> They care about tracking you.. So they can sell more of your data to Google and increase profits.
[17:27:24] <michealpwalls> v29 shows where they're going. They dont' give a flying *fuck* about the Gecko engine, or anything about browsers you would think they should care about.
[17:27:23] <TK_> My first inkling was about v25 when they changed the search behavior of the url bar
[17:27:06] <michealpwalls> Disclaimer: I am a long time Firefox suppoert, promotor and developer. I ran FIrefox right up until v28, proudly.
[17:26:47] <michealpwalls> I lost FF with the v29 sneak-pick...
[17:26:44] <stdhell> TheMightyBuzzard: That's actually my first rule.
[17:26:40] <TheMightyBuzzard> you can tell that just by the number of twats who put nothing towards retirement thinking SS will take care of them in their old age.
[17:26:32] <TK_> and FF is approaching that very quickly
[17:26:24] <TK_> If it doesn't fit my needs, I won't use it
[17:26:16] <TK_> I concur with the consumerist perspective
[17:26:15] <prospectacle> TheMightyBuzzard, yes but in other corporate structures, you might have an LCD that is a founder, or a family, or a dedicated group of founders. In Public company this is virtually impossible by the nature of the system.
[17:25:32] <TheMightyBuzzard> and as is well established, people are fucking morons, by in large.
[17:25:24] <michealpwalls> Read their privacy policy if you don't believe me :)
[17:25:18] <TheMightyBuzzard> prospectacle, people is the LCD.
[17:25:16] <michealpwalls> I am all for profits and I believe in the power of consumerism. If you don't like Google's browser tracking you, stop using it. There *are* alternatives.. Opera's #1 niche is the people who like Chrome but want privacy.
[17:25:04] <prospectacle> TheMightyBuzzard, and what's the common denominator among them all? It seems to be a desire for short term profit or stock-price-increase.
[17:24:34] <prospectacle> TK_ I'm not against profit either, it's the anonymous/publicly-trade nature of joint-stock companies that create the problem.
[17:24:28] <michealpwalls> Mozilla's pushign Firefox in the direction of: Tracking, Bloated, Leaky and shoveling data to Google by the fucking dumptruck-load.
[17:24:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> prospectacle, of course. everyone is in most publicly traded companies.
[17:24:02] <prospectacle> TheMightyBuzzard, Good, but are you a minority shareholder?
[17:24:01] <michealpwalls> TK: Opera is a fork of Chromium. They actively develop Blink, all of their work is pushed upstream and you can see the direction they're going (Speed, privacy and security)
[17:23:44] <TK_> I have no problem with a for-profit over a not for profit
[17:23:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> prospectacle, i care about long term profit.
[17:23:24] <michealpwalls> I run Chromium and Opera mostly. I have all the browsers for testing and dev. purposes by my personal browser is Opera at this point.
[17:23:22] <TK_> how are the plugin capabilities
[17:23:16] <prospectacle> There is no core, no direction, not soul, except money.
[17:23:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> TK_, search me. i ignore guilt that isn't earned by me.
[17:23:01] <prospectacle> TheMightyBuzzard, bad management comes from being elected by a bunch of random, anonymous shareholders. How would they care about anything but short term profit.
[17:22:53] <michealpwalls> TK_: Right now I use Opera. Sorry to take so long to reply :)
[17:22:46] <TK_> what's the guilt free/cruelty free browser of the moment?
[17:22:28] <TK_> chromium?
[17:22:25] <TK_> Opera?
[17:22:23] <TK_> so...seamonkey?
[17:22:23] <prospectacle> If moziall corp, is owned by mozilla foundation which is nfp, the money can only go back into operations
[17:22:17] <michealpwalls> prospectacle: Who knows? That's a good question....
[17:22:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> prospectacle, shouldn't be. nothing wrong with them. now bad management that focuses only on the short term, that's bad.
[17:22:08] <michealpwalls> I hate to be the bringer of such bad news, guys, but that's how it is. They don't listen to anybody's opinion if it doesn't make them money...
[17:22:01] <prospectacle> michealpwalls, and in whose pockets does the profit end up?
[17:21:47] <michealpwalls> Mozilla is a profit driven entity now..
[17:21:42] <prospectacle> TheMightyBuzzard, I'm not in favour of losing money, I'm against publicly traded joint-stock companies.
[17:21:37] <michealpwalls> Well, semantics is one thing but in practice, I fundamentally disagree...
[17:21:13] <prospectacle> michealpwalls, therefore, it's effectively a not for profit company
[17:20:57] <michealpwalls> They get heavy funding... Fixing Gecko? No funding.
[17:20:52] <TheMightyBuzzard> prospectacle, google loses money on chrome. they should be way more up your alley than moz
[17:20:49] <michealpwalls> Hense: Mozilla Social, Mozilla Persona and the Mozilal "Personalized Web" projects.
[17:20:42] <prospectacle> michealpwalls, its only shareholder is the not-for-profit mozilla foundation.
[17:20:37] <michealpwalls> 'cause I know damned well, I'm a volunteer and nobody gives a shit about my opinion... Which is to fix outstanding bugs in the rendering engine. That's not a priority though... However tracking browser habbits *is*
[17:20:15] <TK_> and your preferred browser is...?
[17:20:08] <michealpwalls> At whomes discretion?
[17:19:56] <prospectacle> next sentence: "The Mozilla Corporation reinvests all of its profits back into the Mozilla projects"
[17:19:42] <michealpwalls> That's the highlight of the article. The executive summary, if you will.
[17:19:36] <michealpwalls> "he corporation also distributes and promotes these products. Unlike the non-profit Mozilla Foundation, and the Mozilla open source project, founded by the now defunct Netscape Corporation, the Mozilla Corporation is a taxable entity."
[17:19:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> it means that is not the goal of the entity
[17:19:12] <michealpwalls> Welcome to your future, boys :)
[17:19:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> prospectacle, not for profit does not mean there are no profits
[17:18:57] <michealpwalls> https://en.wikipedia.org
[17:18:41] -!- TK has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[17:18:37] <prospectacle> michealpwalls, funding, not profits
[17:18:29] -!- Space_Man [Space_Man!~Space_Man@91-886-365-69.static.enta.net] has joined #Soylent
[17:18:28] <michealpwalls> ... Did you know 90% of the profits from the Mozilla Corporation come from Google?
[17:18:21] <prospectacle> michealpwalls, they're not for profit.
[17:18:00] <michealpwalls> Or.. Didn't you know? :)
[17:17:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> c-c-c-c-c-convo-breaker!
[17:17:54] <michealpwalls> prospectacle: That's where you're wrong and that's why it's cute... Firefox, too, is controlled by a publicly traded, for profit corporation. It's called the Mozilla Corporation.
[17:17:54] <TK_> heh
[17:17:50] <prospectacle> more important, too
[17:17:47] <prospectacle> yes
[17:17:42] <TK_> This is even better than religion
[17:17:35] <TK_> ...so that's how you derail the IRC convos
[17:17:17] <michealpwalls> Not sure where to even begin. Although I respect your opinion!
[17:17:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> chrome is almost usable.
[17:17:11] <prospectacle> What's better than firefox? All the others are controlled by publicly traded, for profit corporations
[17:17:08] <TK_> I know, I know, I could use seamonkey
[17:17:08] <michealpwalls> Oh man that's so wrong :O
[17:16:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> pffft, FF is still hands down the best browser to do initial web dev on.
[17:16:41] <TK_> Noscript is my friend
[17:16:05] <TK_> It's the momentum more than anything
[17:15:58] -!- Space_Man has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[17:15:51] <michealpwalls> TK: You actually run Firefox? hehe that's so cute :P
[17:15:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> part of the tradeoff. i get less money but i don't have to fight them because someone read an article or talked to a sales rep.
[17:15:22] <michealpwalls> IE11 is nowhere to be seen, of course...
[17:15:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> TK, only works for people who're paying me absurdly low amounts to admin their shat.
[17:15:13] <michealpwalls> Oh TK... The IT department here hasn't even finished their "upgrade" of IE from 9 to 10... I estimate that at least 40% of the machines in this org. are running IE9 and the other 60% are running IE10.
[17:15:12] <TK_> Firefox 28 crashes again!
[17:15:07] -!- TK_ [TK_!~9ff52002@159.245.ju.y] has joined #Soylent
[17:15:05] <TheMightyBuzzard> TK, only works for people who're paying me absurdly low amounts to admin their shat.
[17:14:58] <prospectacle> TK what's the phone number? I'll call and let them know "Hi I'm from windows support department"
[17:14:50] <stdhell> I'll go do something complete different until the server can be used again. :-(
[17:14:36] <michealpwalls> LOL
[17:14:29] <TK> Can you tell my IT department to abandon this POS? If they'll listen to you
[17:14:13] <michealpwalls> I get pulled in contradictory directions from different people.. daily :/
[17:14:01] <michealpwalls> pfft TheMightyBuzzard.. Nobody listens to me! :(
[17:13:53] <prospectacle> stewart lee is a comedians comedian. He's always telling the audience they're not sophisticated enough to get his jokes, etc.
[17:13:51] <stdhell> 355.68 :-(
[17:13:48] <TheMightyBuzzard> I really don't have a bane. Most of the folks I admin for listen to me when I tell them something.
[17:13:13] <michealpwalls> hehe prospectacle. Monty Python humour kills me
[17:12:57] <michealpwalls> What a disaster. That's the model Nintendo clearly used to design Wii U :)
[17:12:52] <prospectacle> http://www.youtube.com
[17:12:49] <prospectacle> michealpwalls, that re-enactment sketch reminded me of stewart lee
[17:12:45] <michealpwalls> WoW64 is my bane
[17:12:30] <TK> luckily I was able to disable "windows search" and some of the other more pointless features
[17:11:45] <TK> It has been the bane of my office existence for a good year and a half
[17:11:12] <stdhell> Here we go again... Load: 287.52
[17:10:59] <TK> +stdhell, only in that some professions are forced to use it
[17:10:07] <michealpwalls> Whereas... The XP "x64" edition is XP with some hackish workarounds to let it run 64-bit software
[17:10:02] <stdhell> TK: Is there anything professional about Windows?
[17:09:51] <michealpwalls> The "Windows XP 64-bit Edition" is a massive change in code-base. It actually runs the same kernel as Windows Server 2003 and is what Vista became
[17:09:33] <TK> "Professional x64 edition"
[17:09:15] <michealpwalls> What a POS that is LOL
[17:09:12] <michealpwalls> Ahhh, that's your problem ;)
[17:09:06] <TK> x64
[17:09:02] <TK> If this was a pan of brownies, it spent ten minutes in the oven while it was preheating to 350 F
[17:08:58] <stdhell> And suddenly the server is much more usable than earlier...
[17:08:56] <michealpwalls> There's a massive difference hehe
[17:08:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> 7 is the way to go if you have to use windows and have to have 64 bit.
[17:08:50] <michealpwalls> TK: Wait, is that "Windows XP x64" or "Windows XP 64-bit Edition" ?
[17:08:37] <stdhell> Load: 12.83
[17:08:27] <TheMightyBuzzard> TK, yup. it's half-baked crap.
[17:08:24] <TK> If this were my computer, I would gladly do so
[17:08:11] * stdhell points TK to the download link on http://www.debian.org
[17:07:21] <TK> I can't even open My Computer without waiting five minutes for the window to refresh
[17:07:07] <michealpwalls> Also, found it: http://youtu.be
[17:07:02] <TK> I think I would like vista better
[17:06:48] <michealpwalls> It's basically vista, only without the UI "improvements"
[17:06:47] <prospectacle> what?! that's not a thing, surely
[17:06:16] <TK> I hope and pray for your sakes that none of you answer this in the affirmative, but has anyone here ever had the displeasure to work with windows xp 64 bit edition?
[17:05:43] <stdhell> Oh, I think root noticed those processes too. Now the load is "only" 64.42
[17:05:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> ahhh, good ole Norwegian Blue
[17:04:57] <stdhell> Someone is going to be an ex-parrot soon...
[17:04:29] <stdhell> load average: 163.60
[17:04:14] <prospectacle> matlab hates everyone
[17:04:03] <stdhell> Well, actually, I hate people who run 5 matlab processes. Each of them using between 600 and 700% CPU according to top.
[17:03:02] <stdhell> I hate matlab...
[17:02:10] <prospectacle> one of the crossbeams has gone out of skew on the treadle
[17:02:03] <TheMightyBuzzard> i like how the swarmy-mob-of-over-reaction is now hashtagged #twitterinquisition
[17:01:57] <michealpwalls> LMAO
[17:01:56] <michealpwalls> WAit no, it was the battle of pearl harbour I think
[17:01:16] <michealpwalls> I like Monty Python's re-enactment of the battle of britain
[17:01:02] <stdhell> prospectacle: Well, I didn't expect that...
[17:00:57] <michealpwalls> hah
[17:00:46] <prospectacle> http://www.youtube.com
[17:00:46] <prospectacle> well if we're having an irc, youtube, monty-python party, the spanish inquisition never gets old
[16:59:49] <TheMightyBuzzard> stderr, glad someone got it. don't feel quite as old now.
[16:59:34] * stdhell really should read up...
[16:59:30] <prospectacle> lol
[16:59:19] <stdhell> http://www.youtube.com
[16:58:32] <stdhell> Number 1!
[16:58:26] <prospectacle> a shrubbery, all grown up?
[16:58:26] <TheMightyBuzzard> http://www.youtube.com
[16:58:12] <prospectacle> is that tree from a sketch?
[16:58:10] <TK> yeah, I didn't get that either
[16:58:01] <prospectacle> wait what?
[16:57:40] <TheMightyBuzzard> the brit blokes not the anal about whitespace scripting language
[16:57:39] <prospectacle> it's truly an inescapable cycle.
[16:57:13] <TK> I don't think you don't want to be productive because you're on IRC, you're on IRC because you don't want to be productive
[16:57:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> prospectacle, true. I blame Python for that.
[16:56:44] <TheMightyBuzzard> michealpwalls, yeah, they were losing money on them
[16:56:31] <prospectacle> I appreciate the effort, TheMightyBuzzard, but that's a very interesting tree
[16:56:28] <michealpwalls> haha tk
[16:56:22] <TK> Just looking at that triggers my allergies
[16:55:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> The Larch: https://upload.wikimedia.org
[16:55:49] <michealpwalls> Still wouldn't undercut that PS3 price
[16:55:47] <TheMightyBuzzard> that's not terribly interesting
[16:55:45] <michealpwalls> It wasn't even possible, not even you crawled newegg all month for the hottest deals and built it yourself :/
[16:55:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> guess i could just post links to trees
[16:55:34] <TK> I guess it must be Friday
[16:55:32] <Brylarke> Presumably because their back-end systems and their priorities suck
[16:55:30] <michealpwalls> TheMightyBuzzard: PS3 even beat out PCs in it's height, in my opinion. You simply couldn't build an equiv. PC machine for that price-point :/
[16:55:10] <Brylarke> Oh, I stopped buying nintendo consoles when I realised purchased digital games can't be transferred over consoles
[16:54:50] <michealpwalls> Couldn't agree more :)
[16:54:46] <prospectacle> lol
[16:54:42] <michealpwalls> LOL prospectacle. I'm at work right now :/
[16:54:26] <prospectacle> thanks a lot, guys. Stop being so interesting.
[16:54:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> i mean that alone put them at the tip top of the list unless you include pcs into consideration.
[16:54:06] <prospectacle> I always log into irc as a side project, then I stop doing everything else
[16:53:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> truly, even if I do have to do a rain dance nowadays to un-nerf the ability to install linux.
[16:53:08] <michealpwalls> Unbeleivable horsepower for the money and yea, very solid software architecture!
[16:52:56] <michealpwalls> The PS3 is such an awesome machine...
[16:52:47] <TheMightyBuzzard> michealpwalls, yeah. ps3 was prolly the hands down best console ever as far as systems programming goes.
[16:52:41] <michealpwalls> But, whoa. Their operating system is straight out of the fucking 1950s
[16:52:35] <prospectacle> who wouldn't want to be a monopoly. IT's basically free money.
[16:52:30] <michealpwalls> When it comes to Application Programming, sure! I love their games.. So much fun, so elegant...
[16:52:25] <prospectacle> TheMightyBuzzard, yes, when that's an option
[16:52:23] <Blackmoore> http://xkcd.com
[16:52:08] <michealpwalls> They are fucking incapable...
[16:52:05] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh and some say suck it because they're the only game in town
[16:52:05] <michealpwalls> Yea, Nintendo *cannot* do Systems Programming.
[16:51:54] <prospectacle> multi-platform.
[16:51:51] <prospectacle> maybe nintendo need to move to a steam-like system
[16:51:45] <michealpwalls> ^ hahaha
[16:51:41] <TheMightyBuzzard> and some get a bail-out
[16:51:39] <michealpwalls> haha
[16:51:34] <prospectacle> I'm amazed, shocked that aol is still a massive and profitable company
[16:51:21] <prospectacle> some companies adapt, some die.
[16:51:20] <michealpwalls> LMAO I could rant all day abou tthat fucking steaming pile of shit...
[16:51:08] <michealpwalls> You know.. When you want to play.
[16:51:04] <michealpwalls> THEN it proceeds to install all that fucking garbage it downloaded (dull)
[16:51:04] <Brylarke> Just don't trust nintendo to do anything other than make fun games
[16:50:55] <michealpwalls> It waits until you want to play a fucking game...
[16:50:52] <Brylarke> They probably always will be fun
[16:50:49] <michealpwalls> LMAO it "auto-updates". Now when I say "auto-updates" I mean it fucking clogs your network at random times of the day and downloads retarded amounts of uncompressed garbage. What does it do with it? Nothing, of course.
[16:50:39] <prospectacle> are the mario games still fun?
[16:50:18] <michealpwalls> Then.. It gets better trust me
[16:49:58] <prospectacle> lol
[16:49:52] <michealpwalls> Fucking disaster of a system. I want to punch a Nintendo engineer in the face for the Wii U.
[16:49:44] <prospectacle> I guess it's a bit easier than an hdmi
[16:49:40] <Landon> and from chrome
[16:49:39] <michealpwalls> Once up, it proceeds to boot the fucking CLASSIC Wii operating system, in a sandboxed Virtual Machine. Sound great? No? Good, 'cause you realize that this sandbox prevents the classic Wii operating system from interfacing with ALL OF THE WII U HARDWARE!
[16:49:37] <Landon> but I know you can forward some video/streaming services from android tablets
[16:49:29] <Landon> I'm not 100% sure of the use cases
[16:49:18] <Landon> yep prospectacle
[16:49:16] <prospectacle> I see ads for it on hulu
[16:49:15] <TheMightyBuzzard> if they need high growth to stay in business, they're fucked.
[16:49:12] <prospectacle> Is chromecast a wifi dongle that goes into your tv or what?
[16:49:11] <TK> But I would prefer the option for an IR usb controller
[16:49:10] <michealpwalls> First, a fucking virtual machine is fired up..
[16:49:03] <michealpwalls> Literally, this is what happens: Put in a Wii disc, and you are prompted with a choice. If you choose No, you dont' get to play your Wii game. If you choose Yes, things get really interesting.
[16:48:56] <TK> and bluetooth
[16:48:54] <TheMightyBuzzard> Blackmoore, honestly, there's plenty of room in all the markets. but only if the companies haven't over-leveraged themselves.
[16:48:49] <TK> I agree
[16:48:48] <Landon> chromecast with 4 usb ports for controllers :)
[16:48:39] <Landon> I think something involving steam and chromecast would really take off
[16:48:29] <michealpwalls> Nintendo half-assed the Wii U. When I mean Half-Assed, I mean they clearly hired 5 undergrad students to write the Wii U operating system's support for Wii software in a 2 day event hosted at the local pub.
[16:47:56] <Blackmoore> or consoles will become this generations laser disc;
[16:47:53] <Landon> on one hand, I love the games, on the other hand, it's just not as easy to get to as my steam box
[16:47:45] <prospectacle> pity, nintendo usually won and "playability" if only because it was aimed at children
[16:47:38] <Blackmoore> the interface, and experience have got to evolve.
[16:47:36] <michealpwalls> It's a massive, epic failure of software engineering. Unbelievable :/
[16:47:33] <Landon> michealpwalls: I'm lukewarm about my wii :( or I would have traded up to a wii u
[16:47:20] <Landon> "What secrets has he been leaking?"
[16:47:18] <michealpwalls> I have never been more disappointed with a console than I am with the Wii U. It could be that I was very excited going into it, although I doubt that.
[16:47:13] <Landon> haha
[16:47:10] <TK> What about a text that says "call me"
[16:47:09] <prospectacle> let's all call landon's work and say he was really helpful on the phone and should get a raise
[16:46:57] <Blackmoore> well yeah; that is what is wrong with the wiiU, and to some degree ouya too
[16:46:48] <Landon> I agree there
[16:46:42] <prospectacle> you need a raise
[16:46:39] <prospectacle> lol
[16:46:34] <Landon> :P
[16:46:33] <Landon> prospectacle: it's not in my paperwork!!!!
[16:46:30] <michealpwalls> POS.
[16:46:28] <michealpwalls> It does not "just work"
[16:46:25] <TK> You can run an SNES emulator on the ouya, yes?
[16:46:24] <michealpwalls> Blackmoore: I agree, except I have a Wii U and it's fucking awful.
[16:46:19] <prospectacle> landon, well if you're paid to answer it that is different
[16:46:06] <prospectacle> txt is better, I agree.
[16:45:57] <Blackmoore> see i think there is a place in the home for a console, but it will be more like a Ouya or a wii. small form factor, plug it in and go.
[16:45:55] <Landon> can't turn off my work landline
[16:45:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> texts are somewhat better, emails better still. basically anything that I can notice myself without it demanding my attention.
[16:45:53] <prospectacle> We're not slaves yet, god damn it
[16:45:53] <michealpwalls> I'll look at it and let the machien get it. It was designed to answer telephone calls :)
[16:45:47] <Landon> I get a call ocne a month, so that's fine :)
[16:45:41] <prospectacle> People need to turn phones on when they want to be contacted, and off otherwise
[16:45:39] <michealpwalls> hah mostly I don't even answer it
[16:45:30] <prospectacle> I always answer the phone, but I'm theoretically against doing so.
[16:45:07] <michealpwalls> I'm terrible at oral communication
[16:44:58] <michealpwalls> LOL
[16:44:57] <Landon> I've got poor hearing if I can't see your mouth move
[16:44:57] <michealpwalls> Just email me, it's 2014 ffs
[16:44:51] <Landon> I agree, phones are terrible
[16:44:49] <michealpwalls> LOL
[16:44:47] <michealpwalls> It's weird and I feel odd
[16:44:42] <michealpwalls> The guy from HR calls me all the time
[16:44:39] <michealpwalls> I hate phones
[16:44:35] <TK> For anything that isn't 100% unambiguous
[16:44:25] <TK> Being on the dialing end of the phone, it's usually my preference over email
[16:44:08] -!- mode/#Soylent [+v mechanicjay] by juggler
[16:44:08] -!- mechanicjay [mechanicjay!~jhowe@Soylent/Staff/Sysop/mechanicjay] has joined #Soylent
[16:43:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> TK, well obviously it is.
[16:43:39] <TK> /s
[16:43:33] <TK> I really hate TheMightyBuzzard, he's saying "whatever piddly shit I want to talk about is more important than your discussion on consoles"
[16:43:27] <prospectacle> the phone works for you, not the other way around.
[16:43:25] <Brylarke> For a lot of people Steam games "just work" to the extent that consoles do
[16:43:19] <prospectacle> themightbuzzard, I know how you feel. But people need to learn to use the off button. It means you might miss an emergency. IT's a bit of an extreme sport. But it's an option.
[16:43:02] <michealpwalls> You wont get an error saying "Install this, poke this bunny and rub this cat's fur counter clockwise for 14 seconds" before being able to play... They can just click a URL and start playing.
[16:42:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> I really hate telephones. Calling me is saying "whatever piddly shit I want to talk about is more important than completely derailing whatever you're doing"
[16:42:33] <TK> If Sony, MS (and Ninendo?) keep releasing consoles in beta, they won't last more than two more generations
[16:42:08] <michealpwalls> They will.. just work :)
[16:42:05] <michealpwalls> Also, what prospectacle said it also true. That "It Just Works" is one of the largest driving factors for web-based gaming platforms...
[16:42:05] <Brylarke> Almost always because of the internet
[16:41:54] <TK> Or any titles on release date
[16:41:54] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Police Use New Tool to Source Crowds for Evidence - http://sylnt.us - will-it-work?-taking-bets-now
[16:41:50] <Brylarke> I go to gaming tournaments, where sometimes "it just works" doesn't exist
[16:41:35] <TK> That's why I don't own any consoles
[16:41:29] <TK> totally agree, brylarke
[16:41:25] <michealpwalls> Hell some want to even skip the "turn it on" part, just pickup the controller and play LMAO
[16:41:20] <TK> That's why I said "if"
[16:41:20] <Brylarke> Since consoles got introduced to the internet
[16:41:16] <michealpwalls> They don't *want* to update drivers.. they don't *want* to do *anything*, really.. They just want to sit down, turn it on, pickup a controller and play.
[16:41:10] <prospectacle> but that applies to (modest) browser games too. So when they catch up...
[16:41:07] <TK> Most people aren't tweakers
[16:41:05] <Brylarke> Also the "it just works" thing is less applicable these days
[16:40:57] <michealpwalls> That's what *SO MANY* of my friends buy consoles for.
[16:40:56] <TK> If manufacturers can keep that up, they'll be fine
[16:40:54] <prospectacle> yes, that is an advantage
[16:40:51] <michealpwalls> Yea, consoles have that ^
[16:40:45] <TK> "it just works"
[16:40:40] <TK> I agree they don't have many advantages over a console, but there is one important one
[16:40:38] <Brylarke> And yes, I think consoles will slowly die off
[16:40:23] <Brylarke> PC games are usually cheaper actually
[16:40:18] <michealpwalls> Buy a game, run it on whatever device you have handy at that time. I think, that's the future :)
[16:40:08] <prospectacle> TK, surely consoles can't have much longer to live. They're just PCs with uniform specs
[16:40:07] <michealpwalls> LMAO that's retarded paradigm in my opinion ^
[16:40:06] <TK> Or just that the xbone fails, I'd settle for that
[16:39:59] <michealpwalls> I think, *that* is the future of gaming.. Not buying "cub 'n ball, XBox edition" for $60, and then "cube 'n ball, PS4 edition" for $40 (It's cheaper 'cause it's Sony augmented price) and $80 for "cube 'n ball, Windows PC" edition but don't try to run the PC edition on your OS X machine...
[16:39:50] <TK> I just pray to god they stop their current trend of combining every damn media option into one device and serving adds
[16:39:22] <TK> But I don't think consoles will ever go away
[16:39:08] <TK> Permissions is why I hope you are right, brylarke, or whoever said that gaming should move to browsers
[16:39:05] <michealpwalls> With whatever input device you have
[16:39:01] <michealpwalls> Anything can move the ball. Run it on any POSIX system, just double-click it and start moving the ball :)
[16:38:57] <prospectacle> Brylarke, there's industry (making money) and there's consumers (playing games). Very different. See apple vs android for example of this distinction. One gets money, one gets users.
[16:38:46] <michealpwalls> The Unity 3D engine can take inputs from a plethora of devices. My cube 'n ball demo runs on any platform you can throw it on (Practically) and control the ball using random input devices... wasd on keyboard, up/down/left/right arrows on keyboard, mouse gestures, touch input, accelerometer data from mobile devices.
[16:38:41] <Brylarke> Don't get me started on permissions
[16:38:27] <TK> instead of installing a game with 10^10 permissions
[16:38:15] <TK> I want to be able to cache a game on my phone's web broswer and play it that way
[16:38:02] <TK> I hope so, prospectacle
[16:38:01] <Brylarke> They aren't going to affect the gaming industry itself
[16:37:52] <prospectacle> That's the future
[16:37:50] <prospectacle> I saved the 2048 webpage to my phone, so I can play it without going online.
[16:37:33] <michealpwalls> Soon there wont be a difference ;)
[16:37:25] <TK> Simple, straightforward time-wasters
[16:37:10] <TK> different inputs
[16:37:06] <TK> We're talking about browser games, that's basically the same thing as mobile
[16:36:55] <Brylarke> They are just capturing a new/different audience
[16:36:48] <prospectacle> TK, I agree
[16:36:44] <TK> Semantics
[16:36:40] <TK> and that's the direction the "I don't want to install something, I just want to click to play" audience is going
[16:36:35] <Brylarke> Mobile games arent proper games in that sense
[16:36:27] <Brylarke> Pah
[16:36:26] <prospectacle> Some blockbuster games are awesome, but you hear stories about the big studios...
[16:36:18] <TK> Mobile gaming is doing that more than anything
[16:36:05] <prospectacle> Brylarke, I sure hope so
[16:35:48] <Brylarke> I think gaming has reached the point where games are easy to make and theres more good games than anyone can hope to play, meaning a loosening of the grip that the current giants have on the industry (ie console makers/publishers)
[16:34:32] <prospectacle> "do you have any idea how fucking busy I am"
[16:34:20] <crutchy> "now take your weapons of mass distwuction and get the fuck out"
[16:34:16] <michealpwalls> Team America was too much LOL
[16:34:14] <prospectacle> Games might be one of the last frontiers, but they'll fall like everything else has
[16:34:12] <TheMightyBuzzard> michealpwalls, yeah. we may actually be seeing people finally able to ditch windows in good numbers but i wouldn't go much beyond that.
[16:34:11] <michealpwalls> LOL crutchy
[16:33:55] <crutchy> or do a kim jong il team america impression
[16:33:54] <prospectacle> Hard to argue it's gradually taking over more and more territory.
[16:33:50] <michealpwalls> The writing is on the way, there's huge mobility right now in the gaming industry... a web-based platform will give the development studios the freedom they want, to move to any platform (Or all platforms) while dramatically decreasing cost
[16:33:48] <Blackmoore> "City morgue, you stab em we slab em"
[16:33:40] <prospectacle> the web is the shift in paradigm though
[16:33:25] <crutchy> pick it up and talk in a reallly bad chinese voice
[16:33:24] <TheMightyBuzzard> people always get excited about the shiny new thing but it rarely pans out to be a proper shift in the paradigm.
[16:33:10] <Blackmoore> michealpwalls: switch the damn thing to go to voicemail
[16:33:06] <prospectacle> when I want to play a game (not a serious gamer) i like to just click a link and there it is. No permission, no insallations, no purchase. Just load the url and you're away.
[16:33:05] <michealpwalls> I think it has serious potential, TheMightyBuzzard. Think of all the writing on the wall right now... Massive outcry over the Windows 8 and 8.1 platforms... Valve porting a gigantic library of games to a brand new target (Linux) and other similar pushes..
[16:32:48] <crutchy> throw it out the window... the chicks around you will think you're spontaneous and want to take you to a closet
[16:32:18] <michealpwalls> Who the fuck does that? hang up already nobody is there!
[16:32:15] <TheMightyBuzzard> it has a place in the future but it will not take over the future of gaming.
[16:32:11] <michealpwalls> OMG the phone in the cubicle beside me hasn't stopped for 40 minutes straight
[16:31:48] <michealpwalls> TheMightyBuzzard: Indeed! It's all about the future though. Plus the NSA will be able to pay closer attention to your gaming habbits :P
[16:31:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> well short of tcp/cp
[16:31:37] <crutchy> yeah cos the NSA needs to inspect everything :-P
[16:31:13] <TheMightyBuzzard> also, if you want to talk latency, going across the Internet is the most extreme latency you can possibly get.
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[16:31:00] <michealpwalls> The theory is, I suppose... Who cares how long it takes if you can pump astronomical amounts of data out per cycle :/
[16:30:58] <crutchy> g'day FoobarBazbot|afk, sedbbot
[16:30:55] <prospectacle> bandwidth gets faster and cheaper by the day. What remains constant is that everyone has a browser. But not everyone has any other thing.
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[16:30:35] <michealpwalls> DDR 5 and meh, there's no stopping it :/
[16:30:29] <michealpwalls> The bandwidth increased, but latency increased along with it. I hated that concept. But meh, look at me know LMAO
[16:30:23] <TheMightyBuzzard> not as fast the initial time but orders of magnitude faster on play 2+
[16:30:17] <prospectacle> themightbuzzard, you have to download steam though. Browser is on every device.
[16:30:15] <crutchy> sedbot: s/has/has finally woken up and joined/
[16:30:11] <michealpwalls> That's true! I used to resist the new DDRs so much because each improvement caused major latency increases... DDR1, 2, 3 etc.
[16:29:58] <TheMightyBuzzard> prospectacle, so can steam and any other downloadable service.
[16:29:53] <prospectacle> michealpwalls, but how long until they can, 2 years, 4 at the max?
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[16:29:37] <michealpwalls> And it's purely for security reasons why they can't (And shouldn't!)
[16:29:28] <TheMightyBuzzard> michealpwalls, that is a huge improvement but latency is not the only issue. moore's law has effectively stopped if you were using Hz as your comparison.
[16:29:28] <michealpwalls> prospectacle: I think that's the catch-22 though. *most* browsers can't *really* do full hardware acceleration like their Preferences window claims :/
[16:29:13] <crutchy> most new pcs come with a solid state drive
[16:29:06] <prospectacle> themightybuzzard, but the key variable is distribution. Browers can distribute new games/levels/content like that (snaps fingers theatrically).
[16:28:42] <michealpwalls> It's incredible. You have to measure shit in nanoseconds LMAO
[16:28:34] <michealpwalls> oh my god with solid state it's fucking instant now
[16:28:30] <TheMightyBuzzard> prospectacle, yes, it can do that. horribly inefficiently compared to a non-browser game.
[16:28:25] <crutchy> michealpwalls: solid state + buffering
[16:28:23] <michealpwalls> There is no trips anymore.. No highways full of "traffic jams" as all chips try to move data on the same bus
[16:28:09] <michealpwalls> Magic happens
[16:28:07] <michealpwalls> With SoC.. It's pumped at blazing speeds directly into the SoC and bam..
[16:27:56] <michealpwalls> Then finally, your GPU can decode the instructions..
[16:27:50] <michealpwalls> TheMightyBuzzard: However that top horsepower comes with a massive latency... As data must *first* come from your hard disk and into ram.. From ram into the CPU, from CPU back into the bus and then down to your GPU..
[16:27:37] <prospectacle> TheMightyBuzzard, but that's a strength of web-games. Webgl is implemented by browser, can use whatever video hardware is available.
[16:27:23] <michealpwalls> TheMightyBuzzard: I disagree! It's all about latency man. The speed at which data can *move* is what limits PCs in this day, not horse-power. You are spot on that a discrete card provides more raw horsepower....
[16:27:22] <crutchy> really at this stage only the IRC interface and common memory buffer is in php
[16:27:07] <prospectacle> michealpwalls, it's a funny language, but yeah, you have to learn to use it right, or you'll shoot yourself in 7 different feet.
[16:26:52] <crutchy> the game has a lot of scope, and much of that scope can be other languages
[16:26:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> may come a day when they just drop vid cards because soc is kicking out that good or better but today is not that day.
[16:26:41] <michealpwalls> *ducks*
[16:26:39] <Brylarke> That's probably the most glowing endorsement for PHP you can ever give
[16:26:38] <michealpwalls> prospectacle: This is going to clear all the Karma I have, but here goes: Most of the criticisms about PHP are actually due to programmer ignorance.
[16:26:15] <prospectacle> crutchy, I say go for it. PHP gets a lot of hate but somehow powers most of the web.
[16:26:00] <michealpwalls> Nothing I can say about that :)
[16:25:54] <michealpwalls> haha TheMightyBuzzard true, very true...
[16:25:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> michealpwalls, and it's all unupgradable crap
[16:25:41] <michealpwalls> :)
[16:25:40] <michealpwalls> TheMightyBuzzard: Besides.. in 2014, what is a "console" ?
[16:25:30] <Brylarke> :-p
[16:25:23] <michealpwalls> and it's all sharing the same meory
[16:25:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> soc is nice n all but gamers who care about gaming performance do not use them
[16:25:21] <Brylarke> Ewwww
[16:25:21] <crutchy> modules just communicate using an IRC-like messaging syntax
[16:25:20] <michealpwalls> TheMightyBuzzard: No. SoC is the future. No bandwidth limitations, no latency as data is moved around buss' from one chip to another... It's all in the same chip
[16:25:15] <prospectacle> TheMightyBuzzard: webgl puts most of the grunt work on the client.
[16:24:44] <crutchy> i'm doing the mapping module in php, and exec is php, but other modules can be perl, haskell, shell, whatever
[16:24:40] <TheMightyBuzzard> michealpwalls, pc gaming has surpassed console gaming yet again. care to rephrase?
[16:24:30] <michealpwalls> Where CPUs, GPUs, memory controllers and everything is all packed into a single chip ;)
[16:24:15] <TheMightyBuzzard> it's simply cheaper to make and distribute games than to web host them.
[16:24:14] <michealpwalls> TheMightyBuzzard: Nah, damn you must be old! LOL discrete video cards are dinasaurs bro. SoC is in now (Systems on a Chip)
[16:24:08] <prospectacle> TheMightyBuzzard, what bottom line?
[16:23:51] <crutchy> hahaha it can be written in any language Brylarke
[16:23:40] <TheMightyBuzzard> prospectacle, dedicated graphics cards being bought by the consumers vs the game portals makes a huge difference in the bottom line.
[16:23:37] <Brylarke> And it had better not be written in PHP
[16:23:13] <crutchy> exec is an awesome foundation for IRCiv
[16:23:12] <pingus> what is this about an irc civ game?
[16:23:10] <Brylarke> Explain
[16:23:08] <prospectacle> themightbuzzard, what's to stop it? (not a rhetorical question)
[16:23:02] <Brylarke> The what for what?
[16:22:53] <prospectacle> crutchy, how is it going?
[16:22:48] <michealpwalls> Everytime I develop another web-app, I become slightly more cynacle about web browsers.
[16:22:47] <TheMightyBuzzard> prospectacle, never happen.
[16:22:47] <crutchy> some good challenges
[16:22:40] <crutchy> the civ game im working on for irc is interesting though
[16:22:36] <prospectacle> They're astronomically better now than 5 yrs ago. In 5 yrs time they'll be "good enough" to replace everything else.
[16:22:16] <prospectacle> I think games are the last piece of the puzzle,
[16:21:59] <crutchy> i like developing web apps, and i use one a lot at work, but i dunno about games
[16:21:58] <Brylarke> You decide
[16:21:56] <michealpwalls> Primarily what my job has been the past 4 months :/
[16:21:56] <Brylarke> I may not be the target of browser games
[16:21:49] <Brylarke> I own a NES and still play it regularly
[16:21:46] <michealpwalls> As much as I hate web-development, I do a lot of it :(
[16:21:43] <prospectacle> lol
[16:21:40] <Brylarke> Oh, disclaimer
[16:21:39] <deadpeas> karma - browsers: 1
[16:21:39] <prospectacle> browsers++
[16:21:36] <prospectacle> I'm biased
[16:21:34] <prospectacle> a lot of dev.
[16:21:27] <prospectacle> I do almost everything from browser. Email, to-do-list, irc
[16:21:25] * crutchy hates game lag
[16:21:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> web based ones are absolutely too fucking slow even if they do have the most features.
[16:21:08] <prospectacle> crutchy, true
[16:21:06] <michealpwalls> It's fucking amazing!
[16:21:05] <TheMightyBuzzard> like i'm playing around with finding a good remote table top gaming system
[16:21:04] <michealpwalls> Then amazed to the power of 3 when they actually load a page properly
[16:21:02] <prospectacle> lol
[16:21:01] <crutchy> prospectacle: unless your connection sucks or drops out
[16:20:56] <michealpwalls> In my honest opinion... I am fucking *amazed* when the browsers start.
[16:20:43] <prospectacle> also it comes with a free sandbox.
[16:20:36] <prospectacle> michealpwalls, I feel your pain, but web-browser content is virtually instant. That's a big benefit.
[16:20:32] <michealpwalls> hehe
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[16:20:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> michealpwalls, that's a one time deal. you generally play games multiple sittings.
[16:19:49] <prospectacle> themightbuzzard, compared to download the game .exe
[16:19:49] <michealpwalls> Then you have a fucking modern web-browser that ignores all of that.. ALL of it.
[16:19:40] <michealpwalls> Absolutely terrible. I swear to god, you have over 60 years of solid Computer Science development... Lessons Learned, Principals of Good Design and "Design Patterns" that solve really complex problems.
[16:19:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> prospectacle, load it FASTER? F U C K N O.
[16:19:32] <prospectacle> also I played zork on a website the other day
[16:19:28] <Brylarke> They are fine, IRC never changes
[16:19:20] * prospectacle likes 2048
[16:19:17] <crutchy> Brylarke: what about IRC games?
[16:19:09] <prospectacle> brylarke, is that a problem? Doesn't it mean you can load it faster, and play it from any device?
[16:19:09] <michealpwalls> haha Brylarke. So true. Browsers are fucking awful..
[16:19:04] <Brylarke> See: Firefox
[16:19:00] <Brylarke> Browsers inevitably turn shit
[16:18:54] <michealpwalls> LOL TheMightyBuzzard they really do!
[16:18:53] <Brylarke> They're in a browser
[16:18:47] <Brylarke> Theres always one problem with browser games
[16:18:43] <michealpwalls> As a systems analyst, it's very interesting thought-experiments :)
[16:18:41] <TheMightyBuzzard> Brylarke, Seconded.
[16:18:36] <prospectacle> brylarke, but what if they end up being good?
[16:18:29] <michealpwalls> I accept --defeatist-- that I have no control over politics, esp. geopolitical strategy. I find it interesting to comment on and think about, though :)
[16:18:27] <prospectacle> I've been drinking, also
[16:18:25] <Brylarke> I just want to go full circle for a sec and as a long time gamer, say "fuck browser games"
[16:18:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> michealpwalls, that's just people, yo. brains make the weirdest damned connections.
[16:18:06] <Brylarke> Actually
[16:17:44] <prospectacle> don't feel bad crutchy, I love complaining about politics. I can't be alone in this.
[16:17:25] * crutchy smacks selff
[16:17:25] <michealpwalls> LOL Brylarke. IRC is hilarious for how sharp the turns can be
[16:17:21] <prospectacle> but we all took the bait, so we're all to blame
[16:17:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> TK, true. it has lower time zone differential from UTC.
[16:17:15] <crutchy> dammit
[16:17:11] <prospectacle> he brough up sun tzu
[16:17:07] <prospectacle> it was crutchy's fault. lol
[16:17:06] <Brylarke> I dont mind complaining about politics, its a fun sport, it's just i was taken back by how fast that conversation turned
[16:17:06] <michealpwalls> It's obviously intelligent.
[16:17:01] <michealpwalls> I believe anything told to me in an english accent.
[16:16:52] <michealpwalls> I want a siri-like device, but one that speaks in a very thick english accent
[16:16:44] <TK> Ok, the EU is superior to the US
[16:16:33] <TK> Siri, derail this conversation
[16:16:32] <michealpwalls> LOL we're not going to mention any names, though! :D
[16:16:17] <crutchy> doing something with siri
[16:16:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> oh ya. someone brought up war because of the sun tzu book
[16:16:13] <michealpwalls> I derailed the train of technology :D
[16:16:06] <crutchy> and mr garrison
[16:16:05] <michealpwalls> It was me.. LMAO sorry, my bad :P
[16:15:54] <TK> It was a discussion of book binding, from what I can see
[16:15:40] <TheMightyBuzzard> think it was talk about ideal cities and lagrange points and such.
[16:15:40] <crutchy> with very bad i.n.t.e.l.l.i.g.e.n.c.e.
[16:15:39] <michealpwalls> :)
[16:15:38] <michealpwalls> </disclaimer>
[16:15:33] <Brylarke> It was all about technology and nice things
[16:15:31] <michealpwalls> Yea true, don't get me wrong guys.. I love Americans. I'm Canadian, I really dont' see a difference between us. When I say "Americans" I strictly am referring to the conduct of the U.S Federal Government...
[16:15:19] <prospectacle> tk, brylarke, let me scroll up.
[16:15:16] <crutchy> replace "U.S. federal govt" with "Team America: World Police"
[16:15:14] <TheMightyBuzzard> beats me
[16:15:11] <Brylarke> lol
[16:15:08] <TK> and same question
[16:15:04] <prospectacle> most of them were against it.
[16:15:00] <TK> same here, brylarke
[16:15:00] <Brylarke> How did this turn into complaints about politics
[16:14:58] <prospectacle> American people had nothing to do with it. Not really.
[16:14:49] <Brylarke> Just been reading the chat
[16:14:45] <prospectacle> It's more precise, and lesss divisive.
[16:14:39] <prospectacle> replace "America" with "U.S. federal govt"
[16:14:31] <michealpwalls> LMAO
[16:14:29] <prospectacle> wait. step back
[16:14:25] <prospectacle> more than they can chew
[16:14:21] <prospectacle> yes
[16:14:17] <michealpwalls> LMAO prospectacle. America bought a LOT?
[16:14:16] <TheMightyBuzzard> crutchy, if not for the russians/chinese/etc that would be an extremely good strategy.
[16:14:04] <prospectacle> If you broke it you bought it.
[16:14:03] <crutchy> but it is the only way to be sure
[16:13:56] <michealpwalls> Can't do that, that's not even on the table (rofl)
[16:13:51] <michealpwalls> No way, that's a no-win situation crutchy!
[16:13:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> can't half-ass something and expect much good to come of it.
[16:13:41] <crutchy> they should just nuke the site from orbit
[16:13:26] <michealpwalls> prospectacle: Indeed... So too did their neighbours!
[16:13:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> prospectacle, which is basically what should have been done. unless we just wanted to destroy them instead.
[16:13:11] <michealpwalls> And they were losing it.
[16:13:09] <michealpwalls> No, that's completely illogical. American policy shifted *away* from patrols precisely because of safety... They call it "force protection"
[16:12:52] <prospectacle> Only reason marshall plan worked (big success) is that the people living there were behind it.
[16:12:42] <prospectacle> u.s. federal govt has no idea how to deal with a military victory, unless they completely occupy/annex the area.
[16:12:37] <TheMightyBuzzard> not because it was unsafe but because obama and his voters wanted us out.
[16:12:36] <crutchy> 1 million iraqis dead... half children... "we think... we think the price is worth it"
[16:12:35] <michealpwalls> TheMightyBuzzard: Which is policy... Policy aimed at reducing body-bags, nothing more nothing less (As per what I have read)
[16:12:10] <TheMightyBuzzard> michealpwalls, we don't have much in the way of troops left doing anything but training in iraq. do have some civvies though.
[16:12:05] <crutchy> cos iraqis are disposable
[16:11:41] <michealpwalls> Read: American body-bags ;)
[16:11:37] <michealpwalls> because the body-bags reached unacceptable levels...
[16:11:29] <michealpwalls> When we can't even *safely* patrol the streets anymore? Iraqis have to...
[16:11:21] <michealpwalls> Under saddam, there was much more order than there is now.. At least in my opinion. Our control over the region was slipping, however what is the control like *now* in comparison?
[16:11:16] <prospectacle> well I guess so.
[16:11:10] <crutchy> it must be better :-P
[16:11:05] <crutchy> prospectacle: but now they are "looked after" by the likes of halliburton and bechtel
[16:11:01] <weeds> RIght I didn't mean it negatively.
[16:10:45] <weeds> THe money doesn't matter. Can't have the middle east stabilize and work together against US. That would be the biggest problem ever.
[16:10:42] <prospectacle> they voted when saddam was in. He won with 99%
[16:10:41] <michealpwalls> It's smart.. However, have they acheived that in Iraq? I think they have lost order rather than gained it..
[16:10:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> michealpwalls, they've got closer than we've got. granted that's not saying much.
[16:10:20] <michealpwalls> weeds: Which is NOT a dumb goal! Sun Tzu chalked that down as "Order out of Chaos" and it's a Roman strategy as well.
[16:10:14] <prospectacle> I mean saddam was a prick, but are the iraqi people, or their neighbours, better off now, on average and in aggregate?
[16:10:13] <crutchy> or just print out of thin air
[16:09:48] <crutchy> weeds: and to spend a fuckload of money they borrow from china
[16:09:41] <michealpwalls> TheMightyBuzzard: Just because a nation "votes", does not mean they have Democracy.
[16:09:34] <prospectacle> Also were they able to breed international terror before?
[16:09:32] <michealpwalls> TheMightyBuzzard: Well, I don't want to argue facts. I simply do not agree with that opinion, however. I think the Iraqi people suffer more now than they did under Sadam...
[16:09:31] <TheMightyBuzzard> weeds, they don't need our help for that.
[16:09:23] <prospectacle> closer to democracy sounds pretty vague. No offence
[16:09:11] <weeds> I've been watching and would like to jump in... The US goal in the Middle East is to keep the area unstable!
[16:09:08] <TheMightyBuzzard> pretty sure those were a couple of the stated ones
[16:09:00] <crutchy> and warning those with them to get them out
[16:08:55] <michealpwalls> LOL
[16:08:55] <TheMightyBuzzard> man, it's been years n years but they're a damn sight closer to democracy and unable to breed much in the way of international terror.
[16:08:39] <prospectacle> by verifying there weren't any
[16:08:35] <prospectacle> well we can say they literally made sure to empty the place of wmds
[16:08:30] <crutchy> lol
[16:08:27] <crutchy> "enhanced interrogation"
[16:08:23] <michealpwalls> All of which have not been achieved, and argueably are subjective goals taht may *never* be achieved...
[16:08:11] <michealpwalls> "Liberate" Iraq people? "Weapons of mass destruction" ? "Terrorists" ?
[16:08:02] <crutchy> maybe they just thought "pffft.. sun tzu? wtf would a hairy old chinese dead guy know about destroying the axis of evil?"
[16:07:54] <michealpwalls> LOL
[16:07:52] <michealpwalls> Which are?
[16:07:51] <prospectacle> what are they?
[16:07:43] <TheMightyBuzzard> shurg, go by the stated goals.
[16:07:42] <michealpwalls> It's one of the *first* things in the table :)
[16:07:38] <michealpwalls> What *is* victory? If you cannot answer this, you should never go to war :P
[16:07:30] <michealpwalls> prospectacle: That's one of the first things you must do.. Define, clearly, what success is.
[16:07:21] <prospectacle> "we left"
[16:07:13] <prospectacle> how would one even measure sucess in iraq or afghanistan?
[16:06:50] <TheMightyBuzzard> granted not yay, complete success, but close enough for government work.
[16:06:48] <michealpwalls> crutchy: But the one that actually matters (Iran) is vehemently opposed and argueably the one funding the resistance.. Hense why the resistance has not and probs. will not stop, until Iran is dealt with (Diplomatically or Militarily, according to Sun Tzu.)
[16:06:33] <prospectacle> "WEll I've won all the wars so far, I must be special"
[16:06:23] <TheMightyBuzzard> michealpwalls, except it more or less has.
[16:06:20] <prospectacle> Common mistake.
[16:06:15] <prospectacle> yeah u.s. has been riding the wave since wwII. They think they're king and the rules therefore don't apply.
[16:06:08] <michealpwalls> Sorry, prospectacle. Never heard of it ;)
[16:06:06] <crutchy> i guess they're sorta in bed with saudi arabia, jordan and israel, though i dunno whether you would call it "friendly"
[16:05:46] <michealpwalls> It's a mathematical certainty. Victory cannot be possible :D
[16:05:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> can't do victorian. something about it just cheeses me off.
[16:05:37] <michealpwalls> LMAO and absically, you continue like that until you realize... This war is never going to end, at least, not on terms the U.S favors :)
[16:05:22] <michealpwalls> Such as: When you invade a far-away land, you must first discuss and make friends with all of their neighbours.... So definately keep that box *unchecked*, the U.S didn't give a fuck.
[16:05:09] <prospectacle> It's a new victorian-era english series. Surprisingly good. Like amc/hbo level of engaging.
[16:04:55] <michealpwalls> LMAO crutchy. For a fun thought-experiment, in around 2003 just before the U.S military clashed with Iraq for the second time, I wrote up a table from the book and plugged in some basic data..
[16:04:42] <crutchy> "artificial intelligence will never match natural stupidity"
[16:04:39] <prospectacle> To change topic abruptly, anyone seen "Penny Dreadfull"?
[16:04:34] <TheMightyBuzzard> high-speed idiots
[16:04:09] <michealpwalls> Computers are as fucking dumb as rocks when it comes to strategy
[16:04:02] <michealpwalls> Oh man I fucking *crush* AI with terrain all the time. AI is such a myth LMAO
[16:03:56] <prospectacle> no doubt it is
[16:03:55] <crutchy> i've read some of the art of war... i think US military strategists take the art of war and spend billions of dollars trying to work out a strategy that is the complete opposite
[16:03:50] <michealpwalls> Yea but terrain is super important!
[16:03:45] <prospectacle> michealpwalls, makes sense.
[16:03:38] <michealpwalls> Also, the first casualty of war is the truth. HOOAH! (flex)
[16:03:38] <TheMightyBuzzard> the moon would probably be easier. gravity enough to work in but an escape velocity you could just about achieve with a golf club.
[16:03:36] <prospectacle> Yeah I only read half of t.a.o.w. I started to get distracted around the time there was detailed discussion of terrain and sun-angle.
[16:03:17] <michealpwalls> ;)
[16:03:16] <michealpwalls> (paraphrased) 'No military plan survives first contact with the enemy.'
[16:03:02] <michealpwalls> prospectacle: That's in the book... Although with more elegant wording :)
[16:02:41] <crutchy> hahahaha
[16:02:32] <prospectacle> Speaking of the art of war, Mike Tyson said "Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth." I think that's a good metaphor, even if he didn't intend it as such.
[16:02:24] <crutchy> don't know about all that mathematical shit (though i prolly should given what i'm paid for) but getting from surface of the earth to about 100km up at escape velocity is the biggest hurdle, and then lagrange points are points in space where gravity between two bodies equalizes, so maintaining orbit is significantly easier
[16:02:11] <TheMightyBuzzard> most hardcovers use both string and glue nowadays. forget what the stitch is called but it's similar to saddle stitching.
[16:01:18] <michealpwalls> It's really nice
[16:01:17] <michealpwalls> The book is bound by decorative string, rather than glue
[16:01:02] <michealpwalls> Really interesting reads. One I haven't touched much, because it has authentic "ancient chinese book binding" (Could be marketing hype? Looks fucking cool though)
[16:00:39] <TheMightyBuzzard> crutchy, nah, he was a realist. a pen CAN be a more powerful weapon but not if you cut off the hand holding it.
[16:00:28] <michealpwalls> I have too copies of 'The Art of War'
[15:59:56] <michealpwalls> :)
[15:59:55] <michealpwalls> This has to be what you're talking about: https://en.wikipedia.org
[15:59:53] <crutchy> TheMightyBuzzard: definitely, though i'm sure sun tsu would argue something about a feather being a more powerful weapon
[15:59:01] <crutchy> doors open when you have cheap, reliable, safe and regular access to low earth orbit... essential for transfer of materials
[15:58:42] <TheMightyBuzzard> prospectacle, gold is better. more value per weight and easier to club someone to death with.
[15:58:13] <crutchy> considering the stations i dream of a kilometres in diameter
[15:57:50] <crutchy> TheMightyBuzzard: that would be no problem... simply replace their functionality with onboard equipment
[15:57:50] <prospectacle> money is pretty sweet
[15:57:44] <prospectacle> or money
[15:57:29] <prospectacle> I guess I should say "no one will champion your causes for you until you've dragged them a hundred miles to the start line by your own efforts"
[15:57:22] <TheMightyBuzzard> crutchy, can't really use the lagrange points. already functioning stuff in them you'd have to give the boot to.
[15:56:21] -!- Subsentient has quit [Quit: Derp.]
[15:56:19] <prospectacle> TheMightyBuzzard, half-valid but well-funded.
[15:56:06] <crutchy> it also extends to space stations at lagrange points constructed sequentially till eventually fabricated from steel based on scrap and ores mined on the moon
[15:55:50] <TheMightyBuzzard> prospectacle, plenty will if you can make a half-valid argument for oppression. it's the hobby of millions.
[15:55:41] <prospectacle> I can't talk really. I'm full of dreams with no follow through. But I *intend* to follow through. one day, when I get around to it.
[15:54:58] <prospectacle> crutchy, difficult, probably. But nothing big worth doing was easy. And no one will champion your causes for you.
[15:54:51] <michealpwalls> LOL
[15:54:44] <crutchy> but its a nice dream :-)
[15:54:30] <crutchy> it would be very difficult to champion such an enterprise
[15:54:15] <crutchy> nah i'm too lazy for that. i was more interested in the technical and business aspects (funding and politics in particular)
[15:53:33] <prospectacle> crutchy, sounds intricate. You should write a sci-fi novel set in the world to illustrate how it functions and its benefits.
[15:53:20] <TheMightyBuzzard> crutchy, survival or creative?
[15:52:29] <crutchy> its even worse when they aren't your own
[15:52:01] <michealpwalls> LMAO TheMightyBuzzard
[15:51:33] <crutchy> 150 storey tower in centre, ringed by circular single lane roads with dual lane spokes, maglev trains running round every nth circular road and along the 4 main NESW spokes, lots of underground infrastructure, and a massive r&d centre nearby with a 50km long x 10 runway compex with underground hangar facilities for a fleet of HTOL low earth orbit shuttles developed under the control of a non-profit business empire :-P
[15:51:23] <TheMightyBuzzard> scuse me. some kids on my lawn. must go yell.
[15:50:02] <TheMightyBuzzard> and you know good and well some chucklehead is going to make heavy use of it in a document editor or something equally silly and i'm going to have to put up with it.
[15:50:01] <prospectacle> java: write once, run once.
[15:48:24] <michealpwalls> I get that :D
[15:48:16] <michealpwalls> TheMightyBuzzard: Yea, there's an old saying too that criticises java hehe. I'll have to paraphrase, but basically, if you don't really know the target platform your app shouldnt' run on it in the first place :P
[15:47:25] <prospectacle> brb
[15:47:24] <michealpwalls> Is it a minecraft town?! :D
[15:47:23] <TheMightyBuzzard> michealpwalls, for games it's likely a good thing. for apps, if you're using it you really, really need to have a reason it can't otherwise be done.
[15:47:16] <prospectacle> crutchy, do tell.
[15:47:08] <crutchy> prospectacle: i have a dream town too
[15:46:38] <prospectacle> themightbuzzard, but accesibility is a feature, too. webgl is instantly accesible by millions of people.
[15:46:22] <michealpwalls> TheMightyBuzzard: However, when you define "functionality" how does a game that runs on a *single* platform compare to the exact same game running on any platform that supports html5 (Read: Virtually *every* modern platform, including phones and tablets)
[15:46:02] <prospectacle> dream town = massive public square with shops all around, then three layers (rings) of housing blocks. This is one town centre. If you want more you put another town centre. So no one is more than 3 blocks from town centre/square/park/shops.
[15:45:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> nearly anything webgl breaks that instantly
[15:45:49] <michealpwalls> TheMightyBuzzard: Ah, and there's nothing wrong in that! :)
[15:45:30] <TheMightyBuzzard> michealpwalls, i mean i'm a "things should be done with the minimum amount of overhead necessary to achieve peak functionality" kind of guy
[15:44:48] <michealpwalls> Touche
[15:44:47] <michealpwalls> haha prospectacle
[15:44:47] <prospectacle> on the webgl version
[15:44:42] <prospectacle> Maybe I'll try again.
[15:44:38] <prospectacle> I tried to build my dream town on cube but I got bored because it turns out towns are complicated.
[15:44:31] <michealpwalls> TheMightyBuzzard: What do you mean?
[15:44:07] <prospectacle> I've been a fan of cube for ages. I think webgl is the perfect environment for it. It was designed for quick/easy level editing.
[15:43:57] <TheMightyBuzzard> michealpwalls, it also trades functionality for flashy sparkly
[15:43:52] <michealpwalls> Potential is fucking massive
[15:43:45] <michealpwalls> I think, it raises eyebrows when you think about Emscripten to bring console games back to life and make them platform agnostic ;)
[15:42:49] <michealpwalls> I don't want to be "that guy" and use an HR term, but really, it's "synergy" :D
[15:42:34] <michealpwalls> Yea! I think that's the future of "web apps" :)
[15:42:26] <prospectacle> michealpwalls, yes. I see. It's way cool.
[15:42:23] <TheMightyBuzzard> i get plenty of troll mods too. some legit but most are -1 Disagree.
[15:42:16] <michealpwalls> Totaly foss. BananaBread is foss too, but it's actually javascript hehe using new html5 tech such as webGL and webworkers
[15:41:58] <prospectacle> oh it's built on cube/sauerbraten I recognise the editing mode anywhere
[15:41:47] <TK> brb, changing "troll mod" to +6
[15:41:34] <michealpwalls> Yea, the game's Sauerbraten from the Cube 2 engine
[15:41:23] <prospectacle> the sci fi one?
[15:41:09] <prospectacle> wow, bananabread is cool as shit. reminds me of quake and what was that sequel to goldeneye on the 64?
[15:40:56] <crutchy> i think i got maybe 1 or 2 +5's
[15:39:59] <prospectacle> Blackmoore, right. Slash has already jumped through many hoops, no matter the problems.
[15:39:56] <crutchy> i'm always modded -1, but i'm a troll that likes to pick fights :-P
[15:39:46] <prospectacle> But SN hit the ground running as a result. So it just depends on how quickly existing code can be adapted, vs fresh code written
[15:39:44] <Blackmoore> but we know slash code will scale. Pipedot will have to prove it can
[15:39:19] <michealpwalls> Exactly ^
[15:39:10] <prospectacle> michealpwalls. yes, it is. That's the point. from scratch (no baggage) vs existing codebase (lots of baggage but also lots of features already present)
[15:39:04] <michealpwalls> And as time goes on, the gap will only grow faster.
[15:38:57] <Blackmoore> but yeah, i cant recall the number he quoted, but he's already had to rip out thousands on lines of code as t was ancient support for crap
[15:38:56] <michealpwalls> As much as I like SN more, I think pipedot will eventually surpass SN
[15:38:36] <prospectacle> Lately I'm less sure. Maybe the two will equalise sooner that I expected.
[15:38:13] <michealpwalls> Isn't pipedot a fresh start though, using PHP?
[15:38:12] <prospectacle> I always assumed SN would have the advantage, because no matter what mods were necessary, there's plenty of good stuff to start with.
[15:37:31] <Blackmoore> he is planning to replace that somehow.
[15:37:19] <prospectacle> Blackmoore, I guess that's a risk when you take an existing package to implement and modify. It's fascinating to watch the different evolution of pipedot vs SN
[15:37:17] <TheMightyBuzzard> if you're too active there's nothing for you to mod because you've already posted to it.
[15:36:41] <Blackmoore> if you are not active enough - or TOO active you dont get points
[15:36:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> every few days. it's annoying but ineffective.
[15:36:14] <Blackmoore> prospectacle: NC went over a bit of the code for mod points with me. it's a convoluted mess.
[15:36:13] <prospectacle> I was once rated -1 over-rated, but it was the first mod on the post. So how can it be over-rated?
[15:36:01] <prospectacle> have you been karma bombed by enemies?
[15:35:33] <TheMightyBuzzard> but seriously, what are they thinking when a few submissions and a half dozen +1'd comments and you're max again?
[15:34:58] <prospectacle> I see
[15:34:51] <TheMightyBuzzard> also mod buttons in comments when you read them.
[15:34:35] <TheMightyBuzzard> shows on the right side
[15:34:17] <prospectacle> how do you know if you have them?
[15:33:45] <TheMightyBuzzard> weird. maybe you're sleeping through them.
[15:33:37] <michealpwalls> LOL
[15:33:28] <prospectacle> I've never had mod points. not sure what I'm doing wrong
[15:33:06] <TheMightyBuzzard> probably not a bad idea. would only take five dedicated mod bombers to cost you an entire day's worth of good karma.
[15:33:01] <prospectacle> I honestly. This sounds selfish, but I don't care about my posts as much since I've been 50 for months
[15:32:39] <prospectacle> I reckon 200 would be good
[15:32:06] <prospectacle> themightybuzzard, I requested a maxkarma increase on #staff. So far no response, but we'll see
[15:31:11] <michealpwalls> So, running natively in your browser without a plugin.
[15:30:48] <michealpwalls> Using a utility called Emscripten, an open source C++/OpenGL game was ported to a JS+WebGL+WebWorkers
[15:29:45] <michealpwalls> https://developer.mozilla.org
[15:29:36] <TheMightyBuzzard> It's easy as hell to keep max karma even with them spending all 10 points on you every time they get them.
[15:29:25] <TheMightyBuzzard> *headdesk* why do people bother mod-bombing?
[15:29:24] * prospectacle googles
[15:29:22] <prospectacle> I'm not familiar.
[15:29:12] <michealpwalls> I think BananaBread is a glimpse of the future "web", hehe.
[15:28:53] <prospectacle> I made a shitty platform game (i.e. collect the jewels, avoid monsters) with canvas, just to test its ability. It's pretty fast.
[15:28:52] <michealpwalls> I think, you're mostly right yea :)
[15:28:21] <michealpwalls> It's about the closest I got to being an "artist" :D
[15:28:20] <prospectacle> make it 10 years
[15:28:13] <prospectacle> I predict in 5 years most web pages won't be web at all, not really. They'll just be <canvas> + js
[15:28:04] <michealpwalls> I was playing around with it on the weekends, making triangles and circles and etc.
[15:27:55] <prospectacle> yeah canvas is great
[15:27:49] <michealpwalls> canvas is cool
[15:27:42] <prospectacle> it's kind of like <canvas></canvas> but even simpler.
[15:27:14] <prospectacle> I wrote a graphing library for work: creatt_bar_graph($values_array), create_pie_graph(), etc
[15:26:42] <prospectacle> easy to build a complex library from their simple one
[15:26:34] <prospectacle> gd is pretty sweet
[15:25:44] <crutchy> working on a map gif output function now (using php gd)
[15:24:20] <crutchy> it would be so cool if there was a mr garrison voice for siri
[15:23:42] <michealpwalls> lol
[15:22:58] <crutchy> apparently nonblocking stdin pipe is bad, mkay :-P
[15:22:19] <crutchy> wrote a 1mb map file tonight. i thought it worked yesterday but stdin was limiting to somewhere around 100kb. turned out to be cos i set stdin pipe to nonblocking
[15:21:34] <Blackmoore> mornin
[15:21:18] <prospectacle> 'sup crutchy.
[15:21:17] <Blackmoore> michealpwalls: possibly - and probably - but you cant guarentee it
[15:21:16] <michealpwalls> And it made me wonder, are those kinds of attacks even *possible* (Apparently not only are they, but it's stupidly easy to pull off...)
[15:21:11] <prospectacle> good day and greetings
[15:21:11] <crutchy> g'day prospectacle
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[15:20:57] <michealpwalls> LMAO TK. No I stumbled upon an article in the TimesOfIsrael about a company engineering security into their [Israel's] electrical grid..
[15:20:37] <crutchy> there are fuses on transformers
[15:20:26] <TK> Are you planning to cripple the grid? Is this what I walked into?
[15:20:18] <crutchy> not sure about in the US but i don't reckon it would work in australia
[15:20:08] <michealpwalls> Blackmoore: Hrmm! But if it blows the local transformer, would that not --potentially-- cause a series of failures in the area of that transformer? :/
[15:19:27] <Blackmoore> but first it should blow the local transformer
[15:19:15] <TK> a crane-load of copper should be worth enough to bribe some people
[15:19:05] <Blackmoore> so yeah, if you wanted to take out a power grid you could - theoretically - try to run a generator back into the power lines.
[15:18:51] <TK> he's the facility manager, he can bribe somebody
[15:17:42] <crutchy> tk: he would need to also steal a crane to carry it
[15:17:41] <michealpwalls> What kind of monkey designed that system? :O
[15:17:39] <Blackmoore> TK: because the transformers are chuck full of PCB
[15:17:36] <michealpwalls> This paragraph is too fucking funny: http://en.wikipedia.org
[15:17:22] <Blackmoore> if you would want to handle power coming INTO the network from households you have to hook a different type of transformer.
[15:17:02] <TK> Why isn't there some unscrupulous facilities manager who buys new transformers and steals the copper out of the old ones?
[15:16:08] <Blackmoore> and the transformers are damn expensive to boot
[15:15:49] <Blackmoore> anyway, power companies dont like replacing anything that isnt obviously broken.
[15:15:02] <michealpwalls> :D
[15:15:01] <michealpwalls> "Good Canadian jobs tied into that broken electrical grid!"
[15:14:54] <Blackmoore> yeah it was engineerer to work for 50 years
[15:14:52] <michealpwalls> Touche!
[15:14:50] <michealpwalls> hahaha
[15:14:47] <crutchy> we get more work
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[15:14:46] <michealpwalls> Yea true
[15:14:41] <crutchy> good for engineers though :-D
[15:14:39] <michealpwalls> That makes very little sense to me LMAO
[15:14:34] <michealpwalls> They're so old, it's confusing... Like it's *all* analog mechanical stuff
[15:14:27] <crutchy> yeah
[15:14:23] <michealpwalls> I think all of them are
[15:14:14] <Blackmoore> the electrical grid in the us is pretty old.
[15:13:55] <Blackmoore> :P
[15:13:26] <michealpwalls> Which would bring down neighbouring networks as the load is balanced
[15:13:25] <crutchy> Blackmoore: hahaha someone threw you a life buoy?
[15:13:17] <michealpwalls> mm, maybe that's the goal (Of an attack, I should say) to trip failovers/failsafes in the transformers to bring down the network?
[15:13:09] <janrinok> hi Blackmoore, Popeidol
[15:12:52] <Blackmoore> mornin
[15:12:48] <crutchy> transformers would cause a problem for it though
[15:12:46] Blackmoore|lostatsea is now known as Blackmoore
[15:12:30] <crutchy> there's that ethernet over power thing
[15:12:22] <michealpwalls> I suppose I have a lot to learn about electricty LMAO!
[15:12:01] <michealpwalls> If so, would that cause a problem? LOL It sounds odd
[15:11:58] <crutchy> i guess you could upload to the power grid
[15:11:50] <michealpwalls> It made me wonder, honestly, could an electric vehicle really plug into an outlet and "upload" (I think that's a terrible word, maybe just transfer) a bunch of electricty *into* the grid?
[15:11:39] <crutchy> hmm i would like to see some explanation of how they do that :-P
[15:10:52] <michealpwalls> The site injected so much into that ctrl+c. "Read more at xyz etc."
[15:10:27] <michealpwalls> Damn control chars LOL ^
[15:10:20] <michealpwalls> "
[15:10:20] <michealpwalls> But, that article mentioned this, that really caught my attention: "and do not try to upload anything to the electrical grid.
[15:10:18] <crutchy> i pay nearly AUD$100 to fill my car with fuel
[15:10:17] <Popeidol> probably for a pants manufacturer
[15:10:12] <Popeidol> "Shorts can cause problems" is a great slogan
[15:10:08] <weeds> Wouldn't the outlet that the car plugs into have a breaker on it? Here in the US I am pretty certain it would.
[15:09:55] <crutchy> i like the idea of electric cars though :-)
[15:09:26] <janrinok> That's typical of you - applying logic and commonsense to spoil a perfectly good solution, crutchy!
[15:08:57] <michealpwalls> Yea, that has always made sense. The failover mechanism causes the problem to simply spread exponentially
[15:08:19] <crutchy> anyway, sorry to beat around the bush janrinok. shorts can cause problems if not adequately protected against. if an electric car were to short some kind of power infrastructure i guess it could trip circuit breakers and bring traffic sharing the same supply to a standstill
[15:08:15] <michealpwalls> haha!
[15:08:12] <michealpwalls> "A software bug known as a race condition existed in General Electric Energy's Unix-based XA/21 energy management system."
[15:07:26] <michealpwalls> That's really amazing :O
[15:06:01] <crutchy> http://en.wikipedia.org
[15:05:59] <crutchy> ahh it was a tree
[15:05:09] <janrinok> I'm a practical problem solver....
[15:04:13] <michealpwalls> LMAO janrinok
[15:04:11] <crutchy> there was another though too
[15:04:06] <crutchy> lightning for that one
[15:03:59] <crutchy> http://en.wikipedia.org
[15:03:57] <crutchy> it was 1977
[15:03:56] <janrinok> Next!
[15:03:53] <janrinok> so don't sell electric cars to Russian hackers.... Problem solved - Nes
[15:03:52] <crutchy> mkay i tell a lie
[15:03:16] <michealpwalls> ... So one Russian hacker could mod a car and paralyze our electricity grid with it?! :O
[15:03:01] <michealpwalls> Whoa that's crazy, cruthcy!
[15:02:54] <crutchy> i think
[15:02:52] <michealpwalls> I didn't think you could just willy-nilly push electricity into a grid. I thought you would need a special plug or something? :/
[15:02:46] <crutchy> a dead bird brought down power for a decent portion of the eastern seaboard in '76
[15:02:31] <michealpwalls> By pushing electricity into the grid or pulling absurd amounts from it, I suppose ^
[15:02:00] <michealpwalls> An electric vehicle damaging an electrical grid :/
[15:01:50] <michealpwalls> Hey... Anyone know a bit about electrical infrastructure? Is this *really* possible? http://www.timesofisrael.com
[15:01:37] <crutchy> :-D
[15:01:28] <janrinok> ah, so there is an upside as well....
[15:01:22] <crutchy> working on IRCiv
[15:01:10] <crutchy> 11pm... kids in bed. very quiet. just got music playing in headphones
[15:00:32] <janrinok> sorry to hear that...
[15:00:16] <crutchy> some midnight oil and php here... tv is off
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[14:59:47] <janrinok> how's things with you crutchy
[14:58:20] <janrinok> well, a sporting weekend for all then!
[14:57:36] <weeds> :) basketball and hockey playoffs going on here.
[14:56:16] <janrinok> busy with the usual household chores this am, my wife is having her afternoon rest which gives me a break, and I'm looking forward to watching the snooker world semi-final this evening, perhaps with a drink or three...
[14:55:09] <weeds> hello
[14:55:05] <janrinok> hi crutchy
[14:54:58] <crutchy> g'day janrinok,weeds
[14:54:47] <weeds> fairly quiet this AM. finishing up some stuff from yesterday. Have a visitor from the east coming in today... How about you?
[14:54:01] <janrinok> how's things?
[14:53:55] <weeds> Good day janrinok
[14:53:19] <janrinok> hi weeds
[14:53:00] -!- weeds [weeds!~4118a13c@cwz-29-45-637-17.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #Soylent
[14:50:32] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Building the Perfect Painkiller - http://sylnt.us
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[14:08:48] MrBluze is now known as MrBluze|zzz
[14:07:47] <crutchy> you too
[14:07:42] <crutchy> g'night mrbluze
[14:06:11] <MrBluze> nite crutchy - have a good weekend mate
[14:05:17] <MrBluze> see u all later :)
[14:05:14] <MrBluze> im useless
[14:05:11] <MrBluze> i better get to bed
[14:03:52] <MrBluze> oh.. i'd get blasted if i did that
[14:03:08] <crutchy> then i forgot to pick up a script from the quacks today
[14:01:55] <MrBluze> yeah that is tough work crutchy
[14:01:39] <crutchy> i worked 36 this week. i need to work more but very hard with missus' back problem and 2 kids :-(
[14:01:32] <MrBluze> was good .. but its over soon
[14:01:19] <MrBluze> climbed a mountain, camped for a few days
[14:00:45] <MrBluze> yeah i had a couple of weeks off
[13:59:12] <stdhell> Sounds "fun"... I've been to work twice this week. Tuesday for a reception because someone was leaving after 45 years and today where I still haven't done anything work-related... Last week and the week before I had two weeks of vacation... :-)
[13:55:58] <MrBluze> looks like another 100+ hour fortnight
[13:54:39] * MrBluze looks at his work roster next week
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[13:42:56] -!- Subsentient has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[13:38:05] <MrBluze> with redgum twigs and a bit of birch
[13:37:58] <MrBluze> yummy
[13:37:45] <stdhell> Mmm... Weber Grill...
[13:34:33] <MrBluze> out of the fryingpan and into the weber
[13:32:23] <crutchy> i thought he might have been abducted by kobachians from the bacon system
[13:31:40] <crutchy> *hear
[13:31:35] <crutchy> mkay. good to head
[13:30:57] <MrBluze> xlefay is ok btw, just busy
[13:30:51] <MrBluze> hmm
[13:30:41] <crutchy> ZOMG!!!!! no sedbot?!
[13:30:05] <crutchy> ??
[13:30:00] <crutchy> s/aa/am/
[13:29:49] <crutchy> gudaamit
[13:29:44] <crutchy> deadpeas: s/Girls/Rocks/
[13:29:38] <crutchy> oops i means
[13:29:28] <MrBluze> but less intelligent
[13:29:24] <MrBluze> better students
[13:28:46] <crutchy> deadpeas: s/Boys/Rocks/
[13:21:23] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Proof That Girls Are Better Students Than Boys - http://sylnt.us - no-fighting-here-please-children
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[12:52:30] <MrBluze> or jersey caramels
[12:52:25] <MrBluze> yeah or jaffas
[12:52:12] <Konomi> popcorn is always needed for movies
[12:51:14] <MrBluze> not sure whether to buy popcorn or not, as i watch ww3 develop
[12:50:26] <Konomi> yeah lol x.x
[12:50:16] <MrBluze> just a bit same older, same older
[12:50:12] <MrBluze> same as me
[12:49:59] <Konomi> same old same old ^^;
[12:49:37] <MrBluze> hey Konomi :) how r ya
[12:49:30] <Konomi> hey MrBluze ~
[12:49:11] <MrBluze> heuristics UI design all that .. so this whole thing flies in the face of what i care about
[12:48:53] <MrBluze> my interest anyway is in usability
[12:47:17] <MrBluze> but anywya.. u got me started.. see!
[12:47:16] <MrBluze> hence the name. mail
[12:46:21] <MrBluze> email was designed for messages
[12:45:42] <stdhell> Not at all.
[12:45:26] <MrBluze> not user friendly
[12:45:18] <MrBluze> lol
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[12:45:00] <stdhell> Right now, I don't even know, if you got my vote or not.
[12:44:35] <stdhell> If you're going to use emails for the voting, maybe it would be a good idea, if you send an email back with "Couldn't parse your vote! Try again..." or "Looks good... Counted!".
[12:42:42] <MrBluze> too much beer
[12:40:52] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Tron Look for Mars Z-2 Spacesuit - http://sylnt.us - TronGuy-in-Spaaaaaaace!
[12:40:47] <MrBluze> omg no one knew that ;)
[12:40:32] <MrBluze> forms
[12:40:27] <MrBluze> u know what html was designed for, right?
[12:39:51] <stdhell> :-)
[12:39:18] <MrBluze> i took a break over that lol
[12:39:02] <MrBluze> i am lost for words
[12:38:55] <stdhell> The software should have allowed "I like these names the same, but more than this group of names, ..."
[12:38:54] <MrBluze> well yeah the method of voting
[12:38:15] <stdhell> What I spend most time on, when I voted, was trying to decide which of the 4-5 names I liked the most.
[12:37:27] <stdhell> And the software?! :-(
[12:37:24] <MrBluze> hi konomi
[12:37:21] <MrBluze> but yeah oh well .. here we are stuck in a sea of mediocrity
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[12:35:50] <MrBluze> anyone can come up with stupid bash commands as names
[12:35:40] <MrBluze> may as well be udevrandom
[12:35:30] <MrBluze> agreed
[12:35:28] <stdhell> Real men don't use sudo...
[12:35:23] <MrBluze> yeah
[12:35:16] <stdhell> Is the site only for Debian-based distros?
[12:35:05] <stdhell> The apt-get-news and sudonews name doesn't make sense to me.
[12:34:26] <MrBluze> and so etc
[12:34:15] <MrBluze> .. no.. squids release ink
[12:34:07] <MrBluze> firingsquid.com - A play on "firing squad". Why? Do we use Squid?
[12:33:49] <MrBluze> a group of dedicated ppl who want to be part of it
[12:33:39] <MrBluze> or staff + volunteers
[12:33:34] <MrBluze> well yes
[12:32:56] <stdhell> You mean "we" as in "staff", right?
[12:32:33] <MrBluze> and we could have checked them, discussed them and so on, and present real contenders
[12:32:28] <stdhell> If you look at http://soylentnews.org some of the reasons are "... because!"
[12:31:47] <MrBluze> EXACTKY
[12:31:45] <MrBluze> yes
[12:31:32] <stdhell> Instead of just having people send in suggestions, they should have asked for a reason why people thought their suggestions were good.
[12:29:49] <MrBluze> releasing 90 names means people are now shown a bunch of viable names that squatters can now grab at any moment
[12:29:17] <MrBluze> but more likely less than 10 real contenders chosen by staff
[12:29:06] <MrBluze> the only real vote that anyone should have known about was choosing between several names.. maybe 10 or 20 if they are all so good
[12:27:57] <MrBluze> but yeah i kinda am not happy about this at all
[12:27:45] <MrBluze> i am probably not meant to discuss it all here anyway
[12:27:34] <MrBluze> haha
[12:27:02] <stdhell> Only once?! Pfffttt...
[12:26:41] <MrBluze> like i said.. i exploded once already
[12:26:33] <MrBluze> mate
[12:26:06] <stdhell> They should have, so we did waste our votes.
[12:25:37] <stdhell> Didn't they do that before the voting?
[12:21:18] <MrBluze> copyrights and whatever is gonna clean up a few names out
[12:19:49] <MrBluze> yeah
[12:19:46] <stdhell> So we might as well get pissed off right now. :-)
[12:19:32] <stdhell> You know what will happen when we see the list, right? We'll check when the domains was reg'ed and either get pissed off because we can see that they got the names 4-5 days ago OR we'll be pissed because they waited 4-5 days before they got the names. :-)
[12:18:09] <MrBluze> dont get me started!! lol
[12:17:59] <MrBluze> lol
[12:17:44] <stdhell> I still don't get why we haven't seen the result of the vote yet. I get that you need to buy some of the names, but it normally doesn't take 5 days to buy some domains.
[12:17:20] <MrBluze> but i better not start again on this .. i exploded already before
[12:17:00] <MrBluze> im just afraid we will be called something really lame
[12:16:52] <MrBluze> same here
[12:16:37] <MrBluze> 90 is insane
[12:16:37] <stdhell> I know which 4-5 I prefer.
[12:16:35] <MrBluze> exactly
[12:16:09] <stdhell> True, but I'm not going to list 90 names. :-) 5 or 10, maybe... :-)
[12:15:36] <MrBluze> 90 of them were published
[12:14:36] <stdhell> SoylentNews? I don't think (or hope) so either... But I __STILL__ don't know any of the names we selected in the vote, so... :-/
[12:12:27] <MrBluze> i dun fink we will be called that in the end
[12:11:51] <stdhell> Or it fetches random news articles from SoylentNews...
[12:11:43] <MrBluze> but takes up heaps of space
[12:11:34] <MrBluze> it outputs null
[12:11:29] <MrBluze> even better
[12:11:21] <stdhell> Yeah... Or nothing...
[12:11:14] <MrBluze> whatever
[12:11:10] <MrBluze> and rene does uhh
[12:11:06] <MrBluze> great
[12:11:00] <MrBluze> ahah lol
[12:10:59] <stdhell> And that library would (of course) need a homepage...
[12:10:56] <MrBluze> oh lol
[12:10:24] <stdhell> -lrene would link with the "rene" library... librene
[12:10:07] <MrBluze> what kinda hint is that
[12:09:45] <MrBluze> uhm
[12:07:52] <stdhell> MrBluze: If librene.ws isn't going to be used for anything related to SoylentNews, I got an idea for you... Hint: gcc -o foo bar.o -lrene
[12:05:08] <MrBluze> but nvm lol
[12:05:05] <MrBluze> sadly some of the ones i thought would be a good alternative didnt eventuate
[12:04:13] <MrBluze> we have to have a name that is actually better and, despite the nerdy/geeky nature of the community, the name should be fairly straightforward
[12:03:42] <MrBluze> im not sure about the otehr contenders as being good options
[12:03:30] <MrBluze> actually i hope so
[12:03:05] <arti> well hopefully it comes together nicely
[11:59:18] <MrBluze> incorporation name i think will be something along those lines
[11:59:08] <MrBluze> yeah in keeping with other developments u see
[11:58:16] <arti> ah cool, newsy.
[11:56:52] <MrBluze> and librene.ws
[11:56:25] <MrBluze> i bought libre-news
[11:56:19] <MrBluze> its to prevent 'em
[11:56:09] <arti> squatters?
[11:55:48] <MrBluze> nah sounds expensive
[11:54:41] <arti> sounds practical
[11:54:21] <MrBluze> but the others i bought for this project, for better or worse
[11:54:11] <MrBluze> and im keeping it
[11:54:09] <MrBluze> i only want one
[11:53:40] * arti keeps several in a text file and thinks about purchasing them
[11:53:25] <arti> nice
[11:53:17] * MrBluze bought some more domain names today
[11:53:00] <MrBluze> tails 1.0
[11:52:48] * arti breathes quietly
[11:52:40] <MrBluze> *cricket* *cricket* *cricket*
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[11:18:36] <MrBluze> how do we promote peace.. i know.. sell weapons to everyone
[11:18:26] <MrBluze> isnt that ironic
[11:18:23] <MrBluze> how to promote democracy
[11:07:59] <bryan> ya, but since time warner couldnt get bought out by them, now time warner has to to get bought out by comcast
[11:04:45] <MrBluze> they probably just have money
[11:04:37] <MrBluze> aol?
[11:03:57] <bryan> if they even have a mail client these days
[11:03:45] <bryan> i wonder if they still have that sound somewhere in their mail client
[11:01:56] <bryan> I see it ^^
[11:01:55] * arti hears the AOL sound
[11:01:44] <stdhell> bryan: You've got email... :-)
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[10:01:54] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - How Can We Promote Democracy? - http://sylnt.us - it's-not-for-sale
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[08:41:52] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Small Groups Make Better Decisions - http://sylnt.us - end-of-personal-responsibility
[08:16:51] <chromas> s/na/nana/
[08:16:42] <chromas> Don't know. What I do know is I forgot to put sugar in the bana bread :-/
[08:12:30] <ar> dafuck is this crap?
[08:06:28] <MrBluze> mirc used to have a crypto plugin
[08:04:42] <Subsentient> ghrtgljrgrt;gmw;lkmg tkl wejm flt;rkgmfdklsngkvlrtnfdleknfgjlk34jnm gkljn ejlkrd5crnelfdjl34kwejmrf;oljm5trklgtfnr2l3ewdn gk54jrem;lk4nwerkjn54tlhb
[08:04:39] <MrBluze> no more dark nets
[08:04:22] <MrBluze> yeah we decided its time to win the internets
[08:03:54] <chromas> Sounds like a cool idea
[08:03:43] <chromas> :-)
[08:03:39] <chromas> Popsicle for that open mouth
[08:03:32] <chromas> =--
[08:03:04] <MrBluze> :D
[08:02:04] <MrBluze> or who sent it or who teh recipient is :)
[08:00:44] <MrBluze> .. then by just looking u cant tell what belongs to what thread
[08:00:22] <MrBluze> so the original message influences the crypto of subsequent messages, including encryption of headers
[07:59:51] <MrBluze> or whatever u might call that
[07:59:44] <MrBluze> and thread-sensitive salt
[07:59:28] <MrBluze> and one-to-many public key
[07:58:37] <MrBluze> maybe the solution is as a browser plugin .. but a js library for websites is better
[07:57:38] <MrBluze> basically "we know you are watching, but now we dont care"
[07:57:18] <MrBluze> but public hosting
[07:57:04] <MrBluze> client side end to end encryption
[07:56:55] <MrBluze> email/forum
[07:56:41] <chromas> So what were you guys talking about earlier? Web forum with secrecy? Or non-web?
[07:56:06] <chromas> I like how the only place to edit search engines is in the little search toolbar which is turned off
[07:54:19] <MrBluze> or maybe worse
[07:54:15] <MrBluze> yeah different has a probably 10% chance of being broken
[07:53:34] <chromas> I guess it was the Customize section. Still different and that makes me a-scared
[07:52:44] <MrBluze> change for the sake of change
[07:52:30] <MrBluze> lol
[07:52:15] <chromas> oh it's the new version where the preferences looks like a file manager and I can drag the icons around for no reason
[07:51:10] <MrBluze> oh.. nice
[07:50:49] <chromas> my firefox
[07:50:42] <chromas> Actually, I don't know. What I do know is for some reason Firefox made Amazon the default search engine
[07:48:55] <MrBluze> base64?
[07:48:41] <chromas> Soon you'll get your bb gun
[07:48:11] <MrBluze> thanks for the hint
[07:46:56] <chromas> Hint: it's about a chocolatey beverage
[07:46:48] <MrBluze> but i have no key for it
[07:46:26] <chromas> You have to decrypt it like you were talking about earlier
[07:46:03] <MrBluze> .. uhm ok
[07:44:47] <Subsentient> MrBluze: dftgjtfghkrftkr667yghe5tujtfgiujr5d7uw4se5tre56tyhaedzkmyfuthdj76tk8uyjl
[07:44:15] <MrBluze> \:-|
[07:43:54] <Subsentient> uyjliyhtuokujotfguol['yuolseuit67tydyfgjtfujrtyydryhftujydrytyityhyuiudrytytqwertygerujyu5r4weykljjtyukje4rhjiuhteryktghtyuijwrt4r57yuiu9iiu54etrasew4RTERGT7UIO78;98O765674DSRWQUYILKJREDUMYIJDRHMJ,IKUYTRGJLKRUYILRTITYUIUGHRT67ULI,UWSRYHTYGKMkyuk4wesgdbrertgujkyiokygwe4t3qwefguij7uyjhklyu8rxdrzwferdttyuikl;oilkr6tywadsyg,trftfhzdt5euhkbjuew57ydjnbxcdthnfgjhnfgvbjrtyf b mnykttgsdcfghkilrtfgeascbtujdyhjgkertytgnmsetyyujh,tdktrfukj
[07:42:25] <Subsentient> rthuy
[07:41:25] <Subsentient> dgb v kjfgvnrhrrwtyjesrfmrrfrtytawrqwqy7thsereretyhtyjsertrytggtwqtr hkk,rtureedhuykertfwsrfl,ytikyil,jk.jhjmgjhru.oikyjrhuyil,hetktt3wjk,tyywegjihk5rdjtyws,iuikthdghw4trrtk,hhekyhrgmrhjtghertuj5r6ghgkfhgkhggkhjkhjkrtjuy gyktyhkjrthhjkhuregrihl,jreyj,yi,kgjtkiulmyhukjk.yukuiuedf
[07:24:52] <MrBluze> random pm
[07:24:39] <MrBluze> hey swiss
[07:22:24] <swiss> fuck this rtf vuln
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[06:50:28] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Adult Film Stars' Bank Accounts Closed - http://sylnt.us - doj-is-the-dominant-one
[06:49:12] -!- prospectacle [prospectacle!~b4c880f7@180.200.jji.ihy] has parted #Soylent
[06:49:09] <MrBluze> me too
[06:49:08] <MrBluze> cheers
[06:49:03] <MrBluze> yes, very
[06:49:03] <prospectacle> good chat, I'd better get back to real things.
[06:48:54] <prospectacle> oh well, might be fun anyway.
[06:48:37] <MrBluze> lol except the hardware is all compromised now so .. oh well
[06:48:20] <prospectacle> soon no one will be able to hear us complaining about the weather. No one !!!!
[06:48:17] <MrBluze> it's what the internet needs badly
[06:48:04] <prospectacle> yep, good fun, too
[06:47:44] * MrBluze smiles .. this is clever
[06:47:28] <MrBluze> replies per message
[06:47:24] <MrBluze> yes configurable .. i guess in a forum u can have 100 or so
[06:47:12] <MrBluze> and then u can track where in the thread u are branching from
[06:47:00] <prospectacle> yes, or a configurable number in your client.
[06:46:58] <MrBluze> or 10 replies to a message to same recipient
[06:46:47] <MrBluze> allows for 10 failed sends before thread is declared dead
[06:46:26] <prospectacle> makes sense
[06:46:12] <MrBluze> so maybe u shove 160 bytes of salt to pad a message in a truly random offset
[06:45:54] <prospectacle> anyway that's def. a v2 feature.
[06:45:35] <MrBluze> 10 salts perhaps
[06:45:31] <MrBluze> yes
[06:45:26] <MrBluze> yeah
[06:45:16] <MrBluze> but i doubt so, if it's basically adding random salt
[06:45:13] <prospectacle> to reply to me, use one of these ten salts: Each one is only used once, if you send 10 messages and they don't get them, you have to reinitiate. Or something.
[06:45:03] <MrBluze> i am just hoping this approach doesnt produce too much non-randomness to things so that it can be more easily broken
[06:44:34] <prospectacle> yeah. true. it's only bytes. and not many of them.
[06:44:17] <MrBluze> so the repeat message still appears to be a new one
[06:44:05] <MrBluze> or use one of three salts provided, for example
[06:43:52] <MrBluze> yeah
[06:43:39] <prospectacle> yeah you could have a tolerance: "accept up to three messages that use this salt"
[06:43:31] <MrBluze> .. unless u use last known good
[06:43:19] <MrBluze> and pick that they successfully interrupted the thread
[06:43:07] <MrBluze> yes but an attacker might look for a repeat of the hash
[06:42:43] <prospectacle> true, but the reinitiation is still encrypted. You just start with the initial-pre-agreed salted hash, or make either the revcipient or the sender public.
[06:42:16] <MrBluze> the problem is if the chain is broken.. it can reveal sender/recipient because they have to reinitiate the handshake
[06:42:12] <prospectacle> yes
[06:41:45] <MrBluze> and that becomes the new salt for the next message if the conversation continues
[06:41:30] <MrBluze> eg: inside a message, in a random offset, u put a 16 byte or so string of binary
[06:41:14] <prospectacle> yes, that could work, it could an additional conversation option: "Add new salts at end of each message"
[06:40:28] <MrBluze> once a conversation starts between the two, they can produce a new set of hashes for that conversation that develop and change
[06:40:05] <MrBluze> then in those messages new salt can be shared to hide sender/recipient in headers
[06:39:39] <MrBluze> as in, to and fro messages
[06:39:33] <MrBluze> well if there's some handshaking going on
[06:38:44] <MrBluze> yeah
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[06:38:24] <MrBluze> but hash of ( key + random byte )
[06:38:22] <prospectacle> What about three modes: 1 sender is public. 2 recipient is public, 3 using either 1 or 2, a salt is agreed on, and all further messages use sender+recipient+salt hash, as the header
[06:38:11] <MrBluze> not + random byte
[06:37:59] <prospectacle> but that wouldn't stop me from seeing you were sending a message to bob, I can just check for the hash of your key+ random byte.
[06:37:18] <MrBluze> or shorter even
[06:37:12] <MrBluze> i mean u are just doing a search between lists of 512 byte strings
[06:36:56] <MrBluze> yeah
[06:36:54] <MrBluze> if there was some kind of handshake .. the salt can be updated
[06:36:50] <prospectacle> 256 per contact?
[06:36:25] <MrBluze> then the reader has to check against 256 possible hashes to find the message
[06:35:59] <MrBluze> so i put a random salt byte in .. giving possible 256 combinations of a hash
[06:35:44] <MrBluze> say you had a range of hashes that could be used
[06:35:22] <prospectacle> s/has/hash/
[06:35:13] <MrBluze> unless..
[06:35:09] <prospectacle> i guess it could be multi-stage. You give them your public key, they send you a messgae with a secret salt, then you create a has of your key+their key+ salt.
[06:35:03] <MrBluze> yes ...
[06:34:24] <prospectacle> although then maybe that's bad. becuase if you can see the to/from hash, and you have boht of those people on your own register, then you can figture out who it's to and from.
[06:34:11] <MrBluze> not sure if that's needed tho but hmm
[06:33:37] <MrBluze> another idea is to enable some kind of handshake to update keys periodically
[06:33:08] <MrBluze> and another thing
[06:32:07] <MrBluze> and then ..
[06:32:04] <prospectacle> good plan
[06:32:03] <MrBluze> then u attempt to download and decrypt said message
[06:31:56] <MrBluze> yep
[06:31:47] <prospectacle> yes, good idea. Then when you see a message you know who it's supposedly to, and supposedly from. Then you only have to be on the lookout for (x) hashes, where x is the number of people/groups in your trusted list.
[06:31:41] <MrBluze> all u need then to do is check for sender-recipient hashes which you pre-form as you build your library of keys
[06:31:12] <MrBluze> i wonder if the sender-recipient can be made into a single hash
[06:30:47] <prospectacle> cool.
[06:30:22] <MrBluze> yeah
[06:30:16] <prospectacle> they won't make it past the first pass
[06:30:09] <prospectacle> that way fakes can be weeded out more easily.
[06:29:37] <prospectacle> ie first pass: yes this is for me (based on checksum after decrypting with my private key). Second pass, yes this is from X (based on checksum after decrypting with their public key). Might save a bit of time.
[06:29:30] <MrBluze> yeah .. something liek that .. something that makes it unique and the recipient and sender know the hash is a link between them, but nobody else can guess
[06:29:02] <MrBluze> the hash can be the header
[06:28:58] <prospectacle> could double checksum.
[06:28:42] <MrBluze> yes
[06:28:33] <MrBluze> if u had your own key + recipient key hashed
[06:28:29] <prospectacle> cool. Will let you know. Seems like all the parts are there (in php) just need to assemble it: Write message, add checksum, encrypt my private key, encrypt your public key, send to you.
[06:28:17] <MrBluze> for example ..
[06:27:49] <MrBluze> i believe i do
[06:27:39] <MrBluze> and u just match those
[06:27:37] <prospectacle> Well I'll just send you a .php when it's ready. Do you have openssl going?
[06:27:35] <MrBluze> but easier is u keep a list of hashes of working keys
[06:27:27] <MrBluze> yes
[06:27:21] <prospectacle> I figure it tries to decrypt using every key on its register (your contacts list) and the message has a checksum to see if it decrypted correctly.
[06:27:17] <MrBluze> i am very time poor i warn u
[06:27:07] <MrBluze> lol thats fast
[06:26:56] <prospectacle> well anyway I'd better get back to it. I'll make a basic version over the weekend and you can be the second person in the world to use it, and we can test it, if you like.
[06:26:56] <MrBluze> lemme think hmm
[06:26:24] <MrBluze> i dunno
[06:26:20] <MrBluze> the pub ket can contain some salt
[06:26:03] <MrBluze> hmm
[06:24:46] <prospectacle> so when I give you my details, I give you my public key, and my public hash (ID)? but i keep the salt secret to myself?
[06:24:27] <MrBluze> well .. in fact it doesnt matter as long as the people doing the exchange agree on the hash algo
[06:23:56] <MrBluze> md5 is fine but u have to salt it
[06:23:49] <MrBluze> but public is rather shared via the trusted person
[06:23:46] <prospectacle> is md5 ok?
[06:22:59] <prospectacle> yes I suppose you're right
[06:22:56] <prospectacle> lol
[06:22:52] <prospectacle> yes I suppose ypi
[06:21:59] <MrBluze> but why share it if u dont have to ;)
[06:21:55] <MrBluze> well the public key should be safe to be public
[06:21:41] <prospectacle> I'm a bit new to this stuff
[06:21:37] <prospectacle> that would make it shorter I guess. But if it's a public key then it's ok to just use the key, as the public ID, is it not?
[06:21:37] <MrBluze> and sender can put sender details in messag body
[06:21:22] <MrBluze> recipient i'd say
[06:21:03] <MrBluze> people with the key look for its hash
[06:20:52] <MrBluze> yes, a hash of the key
[06:20:31] <prospectacle> Probably optional is the best. Either the sender or the recipient needs to be public (not the real person, of course, but their key)
[06:20:17] <MrBluze> but u can obfuscate it
[06:20:13] <MrBluze> prospectacle: the header cant be completely hidden
[06:20:06] <prospectacle> You could make the sender public, but not mention the recipient. Then everyone on your list can parse the message and it can say "Yes it was for you", or 'no it wasn't for you'
[06:19:37] <prospectacle> yeah I'm not sure either. I guess it could be optional.
[06:19:11] <MrBluze> i send u a quick msg in pm
[06:19:01] <MrBluze> hmm.. private sender i dunno
[06:19:00] <NCommander> MrBluze, pong
[06:18:21] <MrBluze> lol yes but its cold and wet
[06:18:14] <prospectacle> hope you are well this fine friday
[06:18:05] <prospectacle> hi
[06:18:01] <MrBluze> hello btw :)
[06:17:31] <MrBluze> oh
[06:15:34] <prospectacle> then you run it through your thing and it says "This is from prospectacle, it says: "hi" ", or 'This is not from anyone on your list'
[06:15:11] <prospectacle> so, e.g. To: (MRBLUZE'sKEY), MSG: a243oh5j34h534h5324kh534.
[06:14:50] <prospectacle> "PrivateSender"
[06:14:42] <prospectacle> I'm leaning towards private sender (in fact I think that's a good name for the system)
[06:14:30] <prospectacle> I was thinking about whether it would be better to have the recipient a secret and the sender specified publicly, or vice versa.
[06:13:19] <MrBluze> thats a start indeed
[06:11:52] <prospectacle> Well MrBluze I've got openssl working on my localhost, so that's a start
[06:11:37] <chromas> s/old/previous/
[06:11:32] -!- prospectacle [prospectacle!~b4c880f7@180.200.jji.ihy] has joined #Soylent
[06:11:20] <chromas> Or just merge with their old bodies for youth while keeping their brain state
[06:10:53] <chromas> Store all the crew on board then when they get sick, make a diff so they can see what changed
[06:10:28] <MrBluze> +1 insightful
[06:09:49] <chromas> They can sample mass and store it for later but not 'play' it inside the computer
[06:09:28] <chromas> Something that for some reason was never used in star trek as far as I know
[06:08:32] <chromas> n
[06:08:31] <chromas> Brain stimulation instead of simulatio
[06:08:19] <chromas> It's the fault of that article the other day
[06:08:11] -!- mode/#Soylent [+v mattie_p] by juggler
[06:08:11] -!- mattie_p [mattie_p!~mattie_p@Soylent/Staff/Editor/mattiep] has joined #Soylent
[06:07:59] -!- drussell has quit [Read error: No route to host]
[06:07:17] -!- drussell_ [drussell_!~drussell@205.233.pt.umv] has joined #Soylent
[06:04:55] <MrBluze> it shouldnt be allowed
[06:04:52] <MrBluze> i dunno what it is about people on here sleeping
[06:04:42] <MrBluze> ok
[06:02:30] <chromas> Yeah it's about midnight in his area
[05:54:37] <MrBluze> is it sleepy-byes time in murka?
[05:53:29] -!- Mattiep has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[05:49:03] -!- SpallsHurgenson has quit [Quit: eyes so heavy]
[05:42:13] MrBluze|away is now known as MrBluze
[05:42:09] <MrBluze|away> NCommander: ping
[05:35:41] <swiss> no, that's actually an issue for me. it seems to need a specific set of conditions :/
[05:26:15] <arti> "yeah uh, nothing happens"
[05:21:21] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Israel Prime Minister Rants Against Technology - http://sylnt.us - +1-insightful-hypocrisy?
[05:11:54] <SpallsHurgenson> oh no, I'm not falling for that one a sixth time!
[04:59:56] <swiss> i can't seem to get it to fully kick off
[04:59:55] <swiss> hey, has anyone gotten the rtf exploit to run successfully?
[04:42:19] -!- pingus has quit []
[04:23:13] <paulej72> NCommander: do you rememeber which var sets how long a stroy can be commented on
[04:18:00] -!- prospectacle [prospectacle!~b4c880f7@180.200.jji.ihy] has parted #Soylent
[04:17:55] <prospectacle> well I'd better get going. Have a good and ground-breaking time everyone
[04:15:13] * NCommander has gone 10 hours without
[04:15:09] <NCommander> SpallsHurgenson, consider me official quit
[04:14:32] <prospectacle> Do you have a blog with a donate button? I can help you for hotels for a while
[04:14:30] <SpallsHurgenson> not until you stop smoking, sorry
[04:14:05] <NCommander> How about a nice warm body to curl up to?
[04:13:51] * NCommander looks around
[04:13:33] <SpallsHurgenson> somebody give that man a bed to crash into
[04:13:18] <NCommander> Hoping tomorrow will be less suck and fail
[04:13:11] <NCommander> Fuck it, going back to my hotel
[04:12:53] <NCommander> *burp*
[04:12:50] * NCommander eats SpallsHurgenson
[04:11:49] <SpallsHurgenson> you should never regret desert
[04:11:45] <NCommander> But that chocolate peanutbutter pie was fucking decident
[04:11:31] * NCommander is regretting the desert
[04:10:24] <prospectacle> damn, those brownies looked good, too
[04:10:13] <NCommander> Nope
[04:08:57] <prospectacle> is it pcode?
[04:08:34] <NCommander> (and I mean actual executable, not perl script)
[04:08:26] * NCommander notes if you know what OS uses pm as an executable extension, take a brownie
[04:08:16] <NCommander> er, pm
[04:08:03] <NCommander> SpallsHurgenson, nosmoke.cm
[04:07:51] <Konomi> pft mime types thanks
[04:07:41] <SpallsHurgenson> nosmoke.exe
[04:07:02] <NCommander> BAD
[04:07:01] <NCommander> NO SMOKE
[04:07:00] * NCommander smacks Konomi's last sentence
[04:06:55] <NCommander> GAH
[04:06:45] <Konomi> I imagine someone smoking a pipe when I hear pipedot
[04:06:42] * NCommander takes his mask off and reveals himself to be ... CmdrTaco in disguise
[04:06:20] <SpallsHurgenson> no problem, there's still comp.misc and pipedot :)
[04:06:12] <Konomi> burn the phony rabit
[04:06:12] <NCommander> Konomi, I'm sorry that your mental image of me causes you pain
[04:05:48] <NCommander> SpallsHurgenson, oh good, so you approve of us selling out to DICE
[04:05:48] <prospectacle> in australia they're debating making patients pay a $6-$15 copay to see a doctor (instead of nothing), people are up in arms
[04:05:31] * Konomi imagines NCommander head banging
[04:05:24] * SpallsHurgenson has no idea who we are talking about, but rather than admit ignorance nods knowingly instead
[04:05:18] * NCommander understands long hair
[04:05:12] <NCommander> Konomi, I used to have a mullet ...
[04:05:11] <prospectacle> lol
[04:05:07] <NCommander> well, 20, since my insurnace covered the rest
[04:04:56] <NCommander> prospectacle, reminds me of when I sent to see the doc. He told me I gained 5 pounds, then made me cough up 500
[04:04:44] <Konomi> long hair needs brushing a lot
[04:04:31] <prospectacle> there I said it
[04:04:22] <prospectacle> foxtrot doesn't have anything on par with firth of fifth, but it's probably a better album overall than selling england by the pound.
[04:03:55] <NCommander> SpallsHurgenson, I dunno, if Blackmoore|lostatsea is a the representive of the "average" Soylent user, then that's a LOT of hair, and burnt hair smells funky
[04:03:28] <Konomi> I'm sure you could there's no shortage of stupid in either sex
[04:03:07] <SpallsHurgenson> might just be simpler to zap the users who are having the issue :)
[04:02:55] <NCommander> Konomi, you know, I bet I could make a successful makeup product by taking abunch of bugs, crushing them into a goo, and then telling women it takes 10 years off your face
[04:02:09] <Konomi> ha
[04:02:04] <NCommander> Konomi, Creame de Insecta?
[04:01:40] <NCommander> Konomi, but in seriousness, xlefay and myself has lighting zapped that bug three times
[04:01:24] <Konomi> is that like some sort of cream?
[04:01:12] <NCommander> it
[04:01:11] <NCommander> Konomi, Honestly, instead of fixing it properly, I'm tempted just to HSPS
[04:01:05] <Konomi> lol ok
[04:00:59] <NCommander> Konomi, that's the bug that refuses to fucking die
[04:00:52] <Konomi> I login on https://soylentnews.org and once it shows me logged in the url bar now shows http://soylentnews.org
[04:00:49] * prospectacle wishes it would rain
[04:00:10] <SpallsHurgenson> oh great, it's raining again
[04:00:08] <Konomi> why does logging in redirect me from https to http?
[04:00:01] <Konomi> also...
[03:58:45] <prospectacle> But you're in! that's what counts. You're part of the exclusive and prestigious group of logged in SN people. It's all plain sailing from here.
[03:58:15] <Konomi> in my defense I just woke up ._.
[03:57:38] <prospectacle> lol
[03:57:28] <Konomi> I'll just go hide now ;p
[03:57:25] <Konomi> or it does
[03:57:00] <Konomi> but it doesn't tell you if you're putting in invalid passwords etc
[03:56:55] <SpallsHurgenson> oh, you're never going to live that down
[03:56:49] <Konomi> I logged in now
[03:56:47] <Konomi> I was...
[03:56:28] <Konomi> oh I think I was putting my irc password in it x.x
[03:56:20] <Konomi> worked in chrome...
[03:56:18] <NCommander> Konomi, careful it doesn't rust
[03:55:42] <Konomi> I'm going to try chrome
[03:55:09] <NCommander> Slash tries to put its users on a diet by not stuffing them with cookies
[03:54:49] <Konomi> guess not then ;p
[03:54:46] <Konomi> oh okay
[03:54:41] <NCommander> Konomi, stored in the backend and inmemcache
[03:54:26] <Konomi> I imagine changing the comment settings would store a cookie no?
[03:54:08] <SpallsHurgenson> ncommander ate them all
[03:53:39] <Konomi> the site hsan't stored any cookies at all
[03:53:33] <Konomi> odd thing is
[03:51:36] <Konomi> http://paste.ofcode.org
[03:51:15] <NCommander> Konomi, you're the second to complain about login issues *sigh*
[03:51:13] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Tails Linux Version 1.0 Released - http://sylnt.us - not-just-a-sidekick
[03:50:59] <NCommander> MrBluze|away, I'm curious to see how much hair you have O_o;
[03:50:48] <MrBluze|away> cheers
[03:50:31] <MrBluze|away> im gonna go lose 2g of weight at the hair dressers
[03:50:16] <Konomi> just the post
[03:50:13] <Konomi> there's noting interesting showing up in my debug console on firefox
[03:50:03] <prospectacle> totally worth it
[03:49:53] <prospectacle> giving up smoking sucks, it took me years. best of luck and willpower
[03:49:52] <Konomi> hey ^^
[03:49:24] <MrBluze|away> hi Konomi btw
[03:49:22] <SpallsHurgenson> LGWH works wonders
[03:49:11] <MrBluze|away> and do 7 minute workout ;)
[03:48:51] <Konomi> no I am not
[03:48:49] <MrBluze|away> go patches or gum
[03:48:44] <prospectacle> bye mrbluze
[03:47:55] * NCommander is trying to quit smoking
[03:47:11] <NCommander> ugh
[03:47:10] * NCommander is overeating
[03:46:29] * SpallsHurgenson assigns the blame to firefox29, just 'cause
[03:46:28] <MrBluze|away> NCommander: u can have that name anytime u want btw
[03:46:15] MrBluze is now known as MrBluze|away
[03:46:08] <MrBluze> see u all later
[03:46:04] <MrBluze> well i better get moving
[03:46:00] <chromas> s/ion/ed cause/
[03:45:37] <chromas> That's the only suggestion I've heard so far
[03:45:23] <chromas> Konomi, are you going through a proxy?
[03:45:08] <prospectacle> Konomi, dunno what's going on. Just tried and it worked for me, though.
[03:44:35] <Subsentient> NCommander:
[03:44:28] <Subsentient> indeed
[03:44:15] <chromas> Subsentient was having that problem as well
[03:43:19] <Konomi> I try to login and it seems to be workign then I end up at login again not logged in at all
[03:43:05] <Konomi> is there something wrong with login?
[03:41:05] <MrBluze> for JUST THIS ONE TIME i will relent and actually reply to it and try to fill in the boxes correctly
[03:40:45] <MrBluze> oh .. i got an email about domain names
[03:39:23] <prospectacle> I see
[03:39:15] <stderr> From what I have heard, the code was written from scratch.
[03:39:06] <MrBluze> i never had a hand in it
[03:39:03] <prospectacle> I get the impression a lot of the rules were becuase a regular expression was used instead of a real parser. But that's just a guess.
[03:39:01] * MrBluze has no idea
[03:38:45] <prospectacle> were duplicates disallowed because of the counting engine or the parsing engine?
[03:38:32] <MrBluze> and someone else is maintaining it which is even nicer
[03:38:25] <MrBluze> devotee is pre-fab which is nice
[03:38:11] <stderr> It's not. In Devotee you can give two or more options the same score.
[03:38:10] <MrBluze> i thought this was what databases and html were for
[03:38:03] <MrBluze> i dunno
[03:37:45] <prospectacle> stderr, correct me if I'm mistaken but I thought it was using devotee's condorcet method, and it's just the ui and login stuff that needs refining.
[03:36:51] <NCommander> SpallsHurgenson, we could hire Diebold
[03:36:49] <prospectacle> MrBluze, well of course you would. Project managers want things to work and be completed. What a crazy idea.
[03:36:40] <MrBluze> so then we can fix the shopfront
[03:36:39] <stderr> prospectacle: Or maybe dump it and use something that already works...
[03:36:35] <SpallsHurgenson> money to fix the vote?
[03:36:30] <NCommander> For some definitions of the word stable
[03:36:26] <MrBluze> now fix the marketing!!
[03:36:20] <MrBluze> the software is stable
[03:36:08] * NCommander looks forward to when we have money to hire folks to fix this
[03:36:01] <MrBluze> as a project manager i'd say .. uggghhhh
[03:35:56] <prospectacle> it's progress
[03:35:51] <MrBluze> yep
[03:35:45] <prospectacle> maybe a bug fix or two
[03:35:38] <prospectacle> As a software devleoper I think we should count it as a successful proof of concept that needs optimising and interface improvements.
[03:35:26] <MrBluze> and if we are to survive we have to do a lot better
[03:35:17] <MrBluze> but we can do better
[03:35:13] <MrBluze> well its a vote
[03:35:08] <MrBluze> lol yes
[03:35:05] <NCommander> bad typo
[03:35:04] <NCommander> *for us
[03:35:04] <prospectacle> lol
[03:35:00] <NCommander> The Florida Voting Commision would be proud for me
[03:34:51] <prospectacle> MrBluze, secondly, even with inversions (a problem I agree), it's still accurate for picking a shortlist (as you could only pick 9)
[03:34:51] <NCommander> Well, let me put it like this
[03:34:46] <MrBluze> so i tip my hat to that
[03:34:43] <MrBluze> and at least it was done
[03:34:39] <MrBluze> yes it could have been worse
[03:34:25] <prospectacle> MrBluze, well it wasn't easy, as such to vote, but it wasn't hard.
[03:34:17] <MrBluze> there was confusion on ranking .. so we dont know how many of the silent ones voted inversely
[03:34:05] <prospectacle> 1 - web form instead of email. 2 - proper ranking (1st is 1). 3 - login to vote instead of token. 4 - profit!
[03:34:00] <MrBluze> the participation rate is low
[03:33:51] <MrBluze> the vote has problems of validity
[03:33:33] -!- pingus [pingus!~pert.boio@76.84.hjr.llj] has joined #Soylent
[03:33:33] <prospectacle> I think the problems with the vote are possibly over-stated. It's been slow and painful, but the core has been created. Everything else is improving the interface.
[03:33:28] <MrBluze> no way
[03:33:27] <MrBluze> this project is not ready for it
[03:33:03] <MrBluze> but u cant relinquish it until u have a stable working system of governance
[03:32:59] <NCommander> I'm the TBD
[03:32:44] <MrBluze> BDFL is good for a while
[03:32:34] <SpallsHurgenson> I can't be corrupted, although for you, and a certain fee to be disclosed later, I'll make an exception :)
[03:32:28] <chromas> Benevolent Dictator For Life
[03:32:11] <MrBluze> BDFL?
[03:32:00] <NCommander> Because if experience has taught me something, *anyone* can be corrupted
[03:31:49] <NCommander> I'm not confortible with the BDFL model
[03:31:48] <MrBluze> not the crud
[03:31:47] <chromas> Steching it out over a long time doesn't work. Look at the Simpsons
[03:31:46] <MrBluze> give people the cream to choose from
[03:31:43] <MrBluze> but its like a restaurant
[03:31:38] <MrBluze> voting can work
[03:31:14] <SpallsHurgenson> and the lesson we need to learn is that voting never works :)
[03:30:42] <prospectacle> ncommander, the latter. This vote needs to be taken to completion, then lessons can be learned in full
[03:30:39] <MrBluze> just need to keep an eye on the tld's and buy them if they become free
[03:30:23] <NCommander> MrBluze, fuck it, I think we just scored our site name + NFP name in one fell swoop
[03:29:49] <MrBluze> i just bought it
[03:27:53] <MrBluze> and .. live happily ever after
[03:27:46] <MrBluze> we could.. buy that ...
[03:27:39] <MrBluze> in pm
[03:27:27] <MrBluze> NCommander: .. remember one i suggested
[03:27:17] <NCommander> If it was available, I would have suggested it
[03:27:09] <NCommander> The problem is I can't get the domain name without the "foundation" bit
[03:26:55] <MrBluze> but 90? thats like the senate ballot paper here.. no one does it
[03:26:52] <NCommander> prospectacle, we need to refine the system. The question that is do we refine now for this vote midphase, or finish it and fix it later
[03:26:47] <chromas> I don't konw what it is but I'd vote for it
[03:26:40] <MrBluze> if u have to choose between up to 7 things, its ok
[03:26:32] <MrBluze> yep
[03:26:24] <prospectacle> MrBluze, only too much given the time each vote takes. If/when a vote is quick, easy, and effective, a lot more voting would be good.
[03:26:22] <NCommander> MrBluze, I just wanted to see if your head would explode if I suggested to do another vote :-)
[03:26:21] <MrBluze> but thats just me
[03:26:16] <MrBluze> i'd happily throw the vote out and take it
[03:26:06] <NCommander> Yup
[03:26:01] <MrBluze> and i rather like it over all the alternatives
[03:25:57] <MrBluze> and it's a good one
[03:25:53] <MrBluze> u do
[03:25:51] <MrBluze> :)
[03:25:47] <NCommander> Actually, I have a name for the non-for-profit already
[03:25:42] <MrBluze> and poorly executed at that
[03:25:38] <MrBluze> democracy
[03:25:35] <MrBluze> tehre is too much demoracy
[03:25:29] <prospectacle> lol
[03:25:28] * NCommander waits for the well deserved -1 Troll downmod
[03:25:24] <MrBluze> lol
[03:25:21] <NCommander> MrBluze, jk :-)
[03:25:11] * NCommander goes to get a mop for MrBluze's probable head explosion
[03:25:10] <MrBluze> are u serious?
[03:25:07] <MrBluze> what the
[03:25:00] <NCommander> MrBluze, didn't you hear, we're having a name vote for the non-for-profit
[03:24:44] <prospectacle> yeah that reminds me, does this place have a bugzilla, or similar?
[03:24:42] <MrBluze> dunno how much of that i can take anymore
[03:24:37] <MrBluze> but i hope the name bug doesnt get replaced with another name bug
[03:24:29] <prospectacle> Nice. But I mean, even if that's delayed a few days. It's no big deal. People aren't going to all disappear to PD suddenly and never check back again.
[03:24:18] * MrBluze grins
[03:24:15] <MrBluze> but lets try not to use pipedot as our bug registry
[03:24:02] * NCommander likes Lawerence Lessig forming a SUperPAC
[03:23:43] <NCommander> prospectacle, well, a lot of the things addresses on a SN bash on pipedot are going to be addressed in the next major release
[03:23:05] <prospectacle> Yeah the site is great, it's fine, it will keep for a few days if you need to focus on other things
[03:22:32] <MrBluze> no one is angry about it
[03:22:22] <MrBluze> he who does a lot of work, makes a lot of mistakes
[03:22:16] <MrBluze> he who does no work, makes no mistakes
[03:22:11] <MrBluze> dont worry
[03:22:07] <MrBluze> if i had a hat, i'd take it off to u mate
[03:21:58] <MrBluze> lol
[03:21:54] <NCommander> MrBluze, that's because I haven't logged into the backend :-)
[03:21:47] * NCommander is just looking for an apartment
[03:21:45] <MrBluze> NCommander: the site is standing as it is
[03:21:43] <NCommander> MrBluze, ow, I could actually afford that
[03:21:30] <MrBluze> NCommander: i remember in 2009 u could buy a condo in florida for $10k
[03:21:25] <NCommander> prospectacle, hotel hopping; this area isn't cheap (tourist trap_
[03:21:11] <NCommander> Well, I have one promising lead, but this apartment search has put everything on hold, including my slashcode dev time
[03:21:09] <prospectacle> oh, well sorry for bringing it up. Do you have somehwere nice to stay at least while you hunt?
[03:20:54] <NCommander> prospectacle, it isn't
[03:20:37] <prospectacle> bye NCommander. Hope your home hunting is going well
[03:20:35] <MrBluze> but yeah that's all i can say about it
[03:20:27] <MrBluze> at lest it's happening
[03:20:20] <MrBluze> the voting system is a system
[03:20:14] <MrBluze> cheers NCommander
[03:19:52] * NCommander is out
[03:19:48] <MrBluze> russians are beautiful ppl.. hot blooded, great cooks, drink too much, but will help u if u are in trouble
[03:19:46] <NCommander> SOmeone hit me with the hammer of leadership
[03:19:41] <prospectacle> well I'll bet dollars to donuts (that's an expression, right?) that our voting system (SN) will be better than americas within a year.
[03:19:33] <MrBluze> same with russia vs. russians
[03:19:29] <MrBluze> i agree with that prospectacle
[03:19:10] <MrBluze> lol speaking of voting systems *cough*
[03:18:56] <MrBluze> yep
[03:18:56] <prospectacle> Some people blame the american people for what their govt does overseas, but it's not so simple. Their voting system is shit, so the people dont' get the govt they deserve, or even want.
[03:18:50] <SpallsHurgenson> yeah, but that's true no matter what city or state or nation :)
[03:18:31] <MrBluze> but the banksters and government staffers .. pffff
[03:18:11] <MrBluze> but basicaly the ordinary guy in the street . no problem
[03:17:53] <MrBluze> new york is corrupt so its not a very nice example of americanism
[03:17:50] <chromas> They like to talk about their 'pizza'
[03:17:29] <SpallsHurgenson> New Yorkers are sweeties; they just like to appear as hard and rude :)
[03:17:27] <MrBluze> much hope there is for them
[03:17:21] <MrBluze> yep, so kudos for that
[03:17:07] <prospectacle> sure seems that way from the ones I've met.
[03:16:59] <MrBluze> especially if not from new york or somewhere like that
[03:16:48] <MrBluze> very warm and friendly, by and large
[03:16:42] <MrBluze> americans are nice people
[03:16:39] <MrBluze> well actually true
[03:16:35] <prospectacle> that's my recipe for world peace
[03:16:24] <prospectacle> I think if everytime someone meant "U.S. federal government', they said that, instead of "America", then most of the world (including america) would agree with each other on the subject.
[03:16:07] <MrBluze> but for now they are somehow useful to someone
[03:15:49] <MrBluze> ukraine's ultranationalist govt is guaranteed to be short-term and they will probably all get bumped off at some point
[03:14:18] <MrBluze> and when they do the crocodile tears thing, keep avoiding them
[03:14:07] <MrBluze> its like bad relations .. u just avoid them
[03:13:53] <MrBluze> yep
[03:13:32] <prospectacle> I think most of america too would agree with the suggestion to avoid dealing with the federal u.s. govt as much as possible.
[03:11:58] <MrBluze> a lesson to other despots .. a lesson for ukraine lol
[03:11:44] <MrBluze> he was a corrupt old bastard that the americans bought and then dumped when he wasnt useful anymore
[03:11:15] <MrBluze> all about tucking in your kids to bed, living in peace, and sorry for what i did wrong
[03:10:59] <MrBluze> saddam's speech wasnt that amazing, he was all sentimental and teary
[03:10:53] <SpallsHurgenson> we have 7000 times that many monkeys now!
[03:09:59] <MrBluze> pick a million monkeys making predictions, and publish the correct ones
[03:09:50] <MrBluze> yep
[03:09:46] <prospectacle> it's like nostradamus
[03:09:40] <prospectacle> yes everyone does
[03:09:16] <MrBluze> "but they quoted selectively" .. exactly, was my reply
[03:08:23] <MrBluze> but they based everything on bible quotes
[03:08:16] <MrBluze> well i used that one at uni as an argument why bible based religion is bs.. no offense to anyone here
[03:07:56] <SpallsHurgenson> good taste in sneakers, those folk had
[03:07:51] <MrBluze> star fields and shit .. a lot of dark purple on black
[03:07:38] <MrBluze> lots of animated gifs
[03:07:25] <MrBluze> that was VERY interesting
[03:07:19] <MrBluze> hm.. and the heaven gate cult's website i downloaded before it was taken down way back when
[03:07:14] <prospectacle> hmm, I've not read that one
[03:06:46] <MrBluze> .. also was very interesting to read saddam hussein's last speech
[03:04:37] <MrBluze> i cant remembera ll the details but it was interesting to read prior to the invasion
[03:04:05] <MrBluze> nearly no debts on houses
[03:03:59] <MrBluze> they had a very very high home ownership
[03:03:57] * SpallsHurgenson starts the bidding war
[03:03:47] <prospectacle> hell I'd do it for 90
[03:03:32] <MrBluze> yep
[03:03:29] <prospectacle> MrBluze, seriously? I would get married for 100k
[03:03:15] <MrBluze> to help u buy a house and get going
[03:03:05] <prospectacle> can pay for the rice, or confetti, which I assume is the most expensive part
[03:03:02] <MrBluze> i think it was around $100k
[03:02:58] <MrBluze> libya had a family starter bonus
[03:02:27] <prospectacle> bribes for brides day. Every may 10th
[03:01:51] <MrBluze> and then get invaded, like libya did
[03:01:44] <MrBluze> sponsor weddings
[03:01:40] <MrBluze> use bribes to help brides
[03:01:36] <chromas> Well, non-lobbying bribes
[03:01:32] <MrBluze> ice
[03:01:30] <chromas> Also bribes
[03:01:23] <chromas> Yes
[03:00:59] <prospectacle> Can I take lobbyists money and then not do them any favours, but just put it all towards public service announcements. "Do you suffer from backpain? Try our new patented 'going for a walk every now and then' method. Proven to be cheaper than the leading brand of pain relief"
[02:59:33] <MrBluze> a granite effigy is difficult to corrupt
[02:59:01] <SpallsHurgenson> he'd be a very "efficient" politician :)
[02:59:00] <prospectacle> Thanks, sounds like a fair deal
[02:58:43] <MrBluze> perfect
[02:58:41] <MrBluze> pass no laws, do nothing
[02:58:26] <MrBluze> as long as u dont change anything
[02:58:05] <MrBluze> i'd vote for u prospectacle
[02:55:50] <prospectacle> It's true, "Well things seem to be going well, I think my job here is done. You can vote for me if you want but I'll probably just coast for a while. Go to trade summits and hang out at the buffet"
[02:54:38] <SpallsHurgenson> you would make a lousy politician with that attitude, prospectacle. In government, you can ALWAYS argue with results :)
[02:52:16] <prospectacle> I guess you can't argue with the results
[02:52:10] <SpallsHurgenson> just most :)
[02:52:05] <SpallsHurgenson> not /everything/
[02:52:04] <MrBluze> but it works
[02:51:52] <prospectacle> that's your solution to everything
[02:51:29] <SpallsHurgenson> yeah, but when that happens just have all the actors strip nude and film your version as a porno :)
[02:50:03] <prospectacle> Then my friend is all 'hey have you seen this new movie, "Marty and the Doc's Time-Car", and I was like "Curses!"
[02:49:20] <prospectacle> like one time i thought, maybe if i steal the time machine from that jerk marty mclfy and take this sports almanac back to when I was younger....
[02:47:46] <prospectacle> damn movies, always stealing my best ideas before I have them
[02:46:38] <SpallsHurgenson> wasn't that "The Lawnmower Man"? :)
[02:44:06] <prospectacle> now that's efficiency
[02:43:56] <prospectacle> imagine a roomba mower. Death machine, they could call it.
[02:43:36] <prospectacle> lol, sounds about right
[02:42:47] * SpallsHurgenson wonders if this will work on certain others in his household "Go mow the lawn; stop being so lazy!" "I'm not being lazy, I am efficiently napping in my chair!"
[02:41:32] <prospectacle> less effort for more reward
[02:41:24] <prospectacle> well, tomato, tomahto
[02:40:47] <SpallsHurgenson> yyyeessss... I'm being EFFICIENT :)
[02:40:41] <MrBluze> u work hard so u dont have to work hard
[02:40:21] <MrBluze> its actually efficiency, not laziness
[02:38:45] <prospectacle> Indeed. catering to laziness is the whole purpose of software, from time immemorial (or about 60 years, I guess)
[02:38:11] <SpallsHurgenson> cater to my laziness! :)
[02:37:54] <SpallsHurgenson> yay :)
[02:34:05] <paulej72> SpallsHurgenson: that is on my todo
[02:33:28] <SpallsHurgenson> Make it one step easier for people to submit a story when you're running low :)
[02:33:28] <SpallsHurgenson> oh, new feature idea: put a link to the submit story page (http://soylentnews.org/submit.pl) on the banner that appears when there are < 20 stories in queue.
[02:25:31] <prospectacle> Don't get me wrong I still think it was a good idea
[02:24:45] <MrBluze> it shits all over email
[02:24:42] <MrBluze> the website is a good idea
[02:24:38] <MrBluze> other things killed #staff
[02:21:05] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - Antibiotic-Resistant Superbug Arose in New York - http://sylnt.us - please-wash-hands-before-commenting
[02:19:54] mrcoolbp is now known as mrcoolbp|afk
[02:09:43] -!- pbnjoe [pbnjoe!~pbnjoe@Soylent/Users/313/pbnjoe] has joined #Soylent
[02:08:20] <xlefay> :)
[02:08:18] <deadpeas> karma - virtualisation: 1
[02:08:18] <prospectacle> virtualisation++
[02:07:42] <NCommander> IDEA!
[02:07:38] <NCommander> xlefay, we could do that with lxc and lithium
[02:07:25] <prospectacle> one big happy family
[02:07:15] <mrcoolbp> agreed
[02:07:00] <prospectacle> Yes true, which is pretty cool
[02:06:43] <mrcoolbp> it seems a lot of discussion has moved here actually
[02:06:29] <mrcoolbp> I don't think that's the case
[02:05:34] <prospectacle> Yes it's a good feature of the site. On a relate not, I'm glad you got a staff slash set up, and I was a strong advocate for doing so. Yet a side effect is it seems to have killed #staff
[02:01:51] <mrcoolbp> I like the fact that we can stay in communication with everyone about this
[02:01:18] <mrcoolbp> nah, no worries at all
[02:00:18] <prospectacle> Fair enough. I'll just be patient. Last thing you need is users bugging you about it all the time
[01:59:11] <mrcoolbp> prospectacle: it's complicated a bit, but not as you said, we are getting responses back from people, it's just a multi-step process
[01:49:17] <prospectacle> later paulej72
[01:49:03] <paulej72> bbl
[01:49:00] <paulej72> OK time for me to get some food.
[01:48:26] <prospectacle> I hope something boring wins. Names should not be too interesting. Imagine if bill gates was called fuckbeta gates. He probably wouldn't have made it as far.
[01:46:44] <prospectacle> just wondering if it's like 2 or 3 you can't get a hold of the person who owns them, or if it's most of them still causing problems. Anyway doesn't matter, it happens when it happens.
[01:46:13] <prospectacle> no doubt
[01:45:59] <mrcoolbp> prospectacle: we're wrapping that stuff up as quick as possible
[01:45:53] <prospectacle> staff ^^^^
[01:45:38] <prospectacle> Are there very many left of the shortlist that you don't yet own?
[01:45:36] <paulej72> found it just now thanks everyone
[01:45:21] <prospectacle> http://soylentnews.org
[01:44:43] <xlefay> hmm, perhaps, we could comment on his journal entry, then, he can edit his entry - and eventually, we can link to his entry, or copy it over? :)
[01:44:38] <mrcoolbp> always has been
[01:44:33] <mrcoolbp> paulej72, once we have the names under our control, that's the plan
[01:44:06] <paulej72> We should do somting similar before we do the final round of the name vote
[01:43:58] <xlefay> you mean, his explanations? Not sure, but I think the user was open4d or so
[01:43:34] <paulej72> does anyone have the link to the journal that one user posted with his expansion of the name list for the vote
[01:41:54] <MrBluze> cheers
[01:41:48] <xlefay> MrBluze: prospectacle: thanks
[01:41:19] <prospectacle> bye xlefay, good luck job hunting
[01:40:43] <xlefay> Have a good one people. Take care now.
[01:40:23] <xlefay> fucking idiotic, I had a dozen or so VMs turning off and not wanting to restart.. till I finally realized virt-manager was the issue.. virsh FTW.
[01:39:50] <xlefay> also.. apparently, connecting with virt-manager and having some inconsistent version numbers (server & client) makes all VM's shut off and fuck up
[01:39:25] * MrBluze wishes xlefay lots of luck
[01:39:06] <xlefay> Give it some thought and roll with it if you like, or don't, ugh I gotta get back to looking for a job.
[01:38:59] <MrBluze> exactly
[01:37:52] <xlefay> I was actually thinking about this.. and wouldn't it be neat, if we had a small dedicated server that could do some virtualization and we could just virtualize our entire set up there and test things out?
[01:37:21] <MrBluze> cant u do that on the staff server?
[01:37:00] <NCommander> I'm too scared to resetup replication least I blow the site to bits again
[01:36:49] <NCommander> xlefay, right now, we're only using neon, helium just LDAP/KRB master
[01:36:44] <xlefay> NCommander: ok making sure you weren't reading over it ;)
[01:36:36] <xlefay> paulej72: our set up is getting more complicated and we shouldn't be relying on one person to know it all
[01:36:34] <NCommander> xlefay, I have it, thanks
[01:35:42] <xlefay> about earlier, right?*
[01:35:26] <xlefay> NCommander: and did you read about the mail pw, that is what you were asking around, right?
[01:35:19] <paulej72> this was another of thoes multiple things happened at once to cause the problem. If NCommander’s laptop would not have died when it did, he would have fixed the issue much quicker than I did acting as his keyboard and ssh interface :)
[01:34:12] <xlefay> I bet it even has a RFG built in (random feature generator)
[01:33:31] <xlefay> It's MySQL, it's full of those. ;-)
[01:33:24] <xlefay> NCommander: you know, we're using MySQL, I wouldn't say it's an edge case, it's just an unexpected feature that came to be in the heat of the situation.
[01:33:06] <paulej72> NCommander: but wasn’t helium down at the time being upgraded to mysql 5.6?
[01:32:11] <NCommander> paulej72, replication was tested, this was just flipping on a new mode, and I hadn't even enabled replication from neon
[01:31:47] <NCommander> xlefay, we hit an edgecase here which isn't clear from Google
[01:31:45] <paulej72> NCommander: I would say that is a change that could make the site go boom. Doing a configuation change on the single DB server that was up
[01:31:25] <xlefay> That's obviously not your fault; however, in the future I would caution you into trusting the MySQL docs. It's often reliably, to Google a bit regarding possible side effects, and crap.
[01:31:04] <NCommander> xlefay, yeah, the failover migration was fine. THe site was down for about 10 minutes due to unexpected hangups, but that was during the maintence window
[01:30:31] <xlefay> aah
[01:30:17] <NCommander> xlefay, I reset neon to be a new master. WHat I didn't know (and is poorly explained in the mysql documentation) is the new GITD replication imposed limitations on queries involving MyISAM/InnoDB
[01:29:39] <xlefay> Also, your new mail pw is @ PM
[01:29:32] <xlefay> I'm quite honestly losing track
[01:29:23] <xlefay> NCommander: what was it this time then?
[01:29:14] <NCommander> xlefay, that wasn't what broke the site
[01:29:01] -!- SpallsHurgenson [SpallsHurgenson!~SpallsHur@xluj-78-089-093-33.nwrknj.east.verizon.net] has joined #Soylent
[01:29:01] <xlefay> mrcoolbp: pretty much anything that could make the main site go boom (in that specific case, we discussed it for the failover test and stuff)
[01:28:25] <mrcoolbp> xlefay: regarding what?
[01:27:58] <MrBluze> u could have broken staff instead, no one would have hardly noticed
[01:27:25] <xlefay> mrcoolbp: I actually discussed with NCommander before, that he would schedule downtime ahead of time...
[01:27:23] <paulej72> Also these changes had even less impact than updaing the site news slashbox which requires a restart of apache on the frontends
[01:26:42] * mrcoolbp told you not to tempt fate like that pj72
[01:26:22] <paulej72> plus NCommander and I had already broken the site earler in the day so we could do no worse?
[01:25:26] <mrcoolbp> but it's a good point in general for the future and such
[01:25:15] <mrcoolbp> MrBluze: agreed, and in this case we did seek a bunch of review throughout the day, so I feel good about it
[01:24:51] -!- mode/#Soylent [+v audioguy] by juggler
[01:24:51] -!- audioguy [audioguy!~audioguy@Soylent/Staff/Developer/audioguy] has joined #Soylent
[01:24:21] <MrBluze> mrcoolbp: i know, and for myself i'd say just go with it but in the end we need a more maintainable and elegant solution
[01:23:53] <xlefay> It'll be more like, dev > QA-team > staff > QA-team > prod, once we've got proper QA guidelines and such set
[01:23:42] <MrBluze> dev | qa -> staff | qa -> prod | qa
[01:23:40] <mrcoolbp> these are just static files, no code
[01:23:18] <paulej72> MrBluze: and for the most part it is.
[01:23:16] <MrBluze> :)
[01:23:09] <MrBluze> oh.. that vagrant
[01:22:43] <MrBluze> paulej72: that is our point .. it should be that way
[01:22:18] <xlefay> MrBluze: it's awesome: http://www.vagrantup.com
[01:21:50] <paulej72> i still like dev -> staff -> prod for the main QA route.
[01:21:48] <xlefay> no, not who, what*
[01:21:43] <xlefay> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
[01:21:42] <MrBluze> who's a vagrant
[01:20:53] <prospectacle> vagrant
[01:20:21] <MrBluze> paulej72: its all good.. but down the track we need to formalize the upgrade process so beta testing can occur in a way that doesn't interrupt the flow of the website
[01:18:39] <MrBluze> so..
[01:18:36] <MrBluze> and some things are happening despite the chatter
[01:18:34] <paulej72> there are probably a few new updates that were specifically targeted to producion bugs that are not on staff, but could be added quickly as a redeply can be done
[01:18:30] <MrBluze> people have been on hiatus
[01:17:55] <mrcoolbp> MrBluze: like what?
[01:17:40] <MrBluze> but yeah
[01:17:38] <MrBluze> well the lack of chatter is for several reasons
[01:17:15] <MrBluze> it was.. but in practice
[01:17:14] <paulej72> staff-slah does have the new themes installed, while prod does not.
[01:17:08] <mrcoolbp> so we were testing as we worked, but there hasn't been a ton of chatter
[01:16:52] <xlefay> mrcoolbp: yeah :P
[01:16:43] <mrcoolbp> dev -> staff -> prod
[01:16:33] <mrcoolbp> the original idea was the other way around
[01:16:03] <xlefay> Staff-Slash LTS, main site: general release, dev = dev? ;')
[01:16:01] <MrBluze> nice
[01:15:55] <prospectacle> by which i mean LTS
[01:15:50] <MrBluze> we beta test on the public
[01:15:33] <prospectacle> lts
[01:15:32] <xlefay> paulej72: I see, I gotta agree with bluze here hah
[01:14:41] <MrBluze> staff slash can be the stable version of the site :) :) :)
[01:14:11] <MrBluze> then why bother, that's what i say :)
[01:13:26] <paulej72> xlefay: staff-slash is probably a bit out of date from production as we have pushed out a few cherry-picked updates that we deployed to production. I am not sure if they were tested on staff-slash
[01:12:30] <xlefay> I see.
[01:12:00] <paulej72> xlefay: tipically before as we use it as a test deploy for code. I did not update the staic pages on staff-slash as I was editing the pages directly rather than doing a deploy and I was testing on dev
[01:10:28] <xlefay> paulej72: does our staff-slash get upgraded when prod gets upgraded?
[01:08:10] <prospectacle> paulej72, sounds like that would be good to use
[01:06:12] <prospectacle> so 300kb is generous. zipped it would be about 10-50kb
[01:05:55] <paulej72> so Improved Threaded will have no pagination and single threshold for slecting the default minimixed level. I would tie the JS only to this option so people could fall back to the others if needed
[01:05:53] <prospectacle> yeah
[01:05:25] <xlefay> prospectacle: for thousands of comments, even without gzip, it'll be small (of course.. we're talking about regular SN comments)
[01:05:07] <xlefay> For the JS stuff? Just load everything and override for JS users, either way, everything will work
[01:05:04] <prospectacle> I assume the page is gzipped anyway
[01:04:50] <prospectacle> even a thousand comments is, what, 300kb or something?
[01:04:27] <mrcoolbp> keeping an option that would prevent loading all would be sane though
[01:04:10] <mrcoolbp> plus we have all that varnish magic on our end, and modern connections on client side
[01:03:45] <mrcoolbp> agreed
[01:03:40] <paulej72> For the size of our site I think loading all of the comments is not an issue.
[01:03:36] <mrcoolbp> cool
[01:03:36] <prospectacle> also, "lots" isn't what it used to be
[01:03:05] <paulej72> mrcoolbp: that is what I am leaning towards
[01:02:48] <prospectacle> yes, pagination is not a good way to deal with having lots of comments, imo
[01:02:25] <paulej72> I would love to set up a single threshold and have no pagination. This would allow for the js to work really well. on ./ I always wanted to just download all of the comments at once even if there were 1000
[01:02:05] <mrcoolbp> paulej72: for me the best option would be the combo we were speaking of, is Nested but with one threshold for minimized/vs/expanded
[01:01:01] <prospectacle> paulej72, I see. Thanks
[01:00:08] <paulej72> prospectacle: threaded uses two thresholds one to hide the comment in a link and the other to set which ones are minimized. Nested only has the one threshold that sets when comments are hidden
[00:57:23] <prospectacle> I prefer to see more messages (lower threshold) than the default, but not as many as "nested" shows
[00:56:57] <prospectacle> for shorter threads, nested seems to be effectively the same as threaded but with a lower threshold for displaying a message.
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[00:55:53] <AndyTheAbsurd> I'm on "threaded" and it's paginating - although with much bigger pages than "nested" shows.
[00:55:41] * mrcoolbp dislikes pagination
[00:54:56] <paulej72> I am looking to set the JS scripts we have to work with a view that has all the comments available and then the js just changes the mode
[00:53:06] <paulej72> AndyTheAbsurd: http://soylentnews.org differnece is on long articles nested is paginated while threaded is not.
[00:51:57] <deadpeas> [SoylentNews] - NSA on Security Vulnerabilities Disclosure - http://sylnt.us - who's-henhouse-is-being-guarded?
[00:51:56] <AndyTheAbsurd> At a quick look ,there doesn't appear to be a difference between threaded and nested. I was on "threaded", changed to "nested", it looked the same to me.
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[00:40:29] <paulej72> question for everyone. Do you use threaded or nested view on the site, and why. I am woking on comments and need feedback
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